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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Reasons to be cheerful/not despair?

173 replies

teawamutu · 05/07/2024 08:11

Indulge me, I'm feeling a bit doomy this morning (and very sad to be so, because a few years ago I'd have been doing cartwheels about this result).

We're better off than we were five years ago, right?

We have the Cass Report.

We have Forstater and various other legal decisions, with more pending.

There's a conversation around the harms of medicalising confused children.

Gender ideology is more to the 'controversial' end of the scale than 'right side of history'.

No-one will ever unsee Isla Bryson.

What else? I know there's a long road ahead, but what other foundations do we have to stand on as we prepare to fight ALL OVER AGAIN?

OP posts:

Report

UpThePankhurst · 05/07/2024 08:19

Most didn't really actively want any of the parties at all, this was always going to be voters choosing the least worst option and the country needs change. Labour are in, but the Tories have the opposition which is much better balance than the LibDems would have been for women, children, reality and sanity in general, and Labour know they got the seats but not much of a pickup in vote: they are not riding high on an enthusiastic supportive electorate, just one wanting the country to stop being so shit. Sadly we - and Labour - are going to see many voters realise this isn't going to be the land of milk and honey they hoped for.

We're not where we were a few years ago: the word is out there and the articles are openly in the papers, any decisions made are going to be vigorously discussed, women's rights were heavily involved in this election, it probably got the Tories into opposition despite everything, and if Labour completely blow it in the next couple of years by proving they're out of touch mad misogynists, then women's rights are going to figure even more heavily in the next one.

The important thing now is not to sit down, or shut up, or step back in being clear; misogyny isn't going to wash in this country. I'll wait now with interest too to see how Starmer builds on his last minute panic declaration that women should have men-free spaces regardless of identity, because if he does another flipflop this early in power it's going to do his reputation no good at all.

ResisterOfTwaddleRex · 05/07/2024 08:20

Not cheerful but at a national level, Starmer did not do as well as Corbyn, in spite of his odd reasoning that he backed him "as they weren't going to win":

x.com/richardjmurphy/status/1809074495992299786?s=46&t=WHoOZ_3Kv5G6-FyQuvE0LQ

So the win is fragile. And there are seats where the margins are very tight (Jess Phillips being just one example). And they will have no money to play with. They need to tread with caution and not assume too much.

RhymesWithOrange · 05/07/2024 08:24

We still have Kemi.
We have Rosie.
We have Wes Streeting (although I don't fully trust him).
We have JKR!
The SNP wipe-out could give Labour pause.
We have a better-mobilised grassroots.
We extracted some promises of protection for single-sex spaces in the campaign.
We can hope the so-called "bigger problems" means they'll leave the GRC process and conversion therapy alone for now.

But I'm feeling decidedly nervous...

keyboardingtoday · 05/07/2024 08:26

I agree with you. A few years back I would have been pleased but today I'm really concerned.

However I do think they have won as a result of a protest vote from people who are sick of not having a dentist or having to sit in A&E for days etc etc. This means they have a LOT to prove and I think they have to demonstrate they are now truly centrists who (among other things) care about women's rights just as much as they do everyone else's. If they make some big radical moves, those protest voters will show their displeasure at the next round of locals.

PronounssheRa · 05/07/2024 08:26

Lib dems aren't the official opposition

Despite the number of seats, Labour only won one third of the popular vote, so the support is nowhere need as strong as it could/should be. Bringing in unpopular policies could be disastrous for them and might make them think twice.

The genie is out of the bottle.

Ingenieur · 05/07/2024 08:26

Hopefully Labour will at least begin to reinvest in public services, rebuild the social contract, and hopefully won't spaff money on contracts to donors and friends.

Over the past couple of years we've built a nice evidence base so we can fight back against the gender woo, the evidence is still there and undeniable so anyone who stands against it will be shown up for who they really serve.

That's the comfort I'm taking.

KeirSpoutsTwaddle · 05/07/2024 08:26

It’s now seen as an issue and can’t be brushed under the carpet and steamrolled through.

It was raised at National debate level, all over X and on the doorsteps.

Some of our GC champions no longer have ‘other’ jobs, so can speak freely and focus on what they want to. (I think- not totally sure what MPs do all day!)

Hairyesterdaygonetoday · 05/07/2024 08:27

I agree. People are far more aware of the issues now. In 2019 very few mainstream news sources dared to point out the conflict between genderism and women’s basic human rights. Most people were still linking it with gay rights and being kind.

Freda69 · 05/07/2024 08:29

In 1997, I was over the moon when Labour won and many things got hugely better; Northern Ireland, healthcare, education etc.
This time I’m really concerned about a Labour win - I think Keir Starmer would have said anything to get more votes. We are going to have to work really hard to ensure women’s rights and children’s safety and health do not get ignored. Keir Starmer is an intelligent man - I hope he takes note of the drubbing that’s been meted out to the SNP.
P.S. it’s great to see the back of Liz Truss and Jacob Rees-Mogg.

misscockerspaniel · 05/07/2024 08:31

RhymesWithOrange · 05/07/2024 08:24

We still have Kemi.
We have Rosie.
We have Wes Streeting (although I don't fully trust him).
We have JKR!
The SNP wipe-out could give Labour pause.
We have a better-mobilised grassroots.
We extracted some promises of protection for single-sex spaces in the campaign.
We can hope the so-called "bigger problems" means they'll leave the GRC process and conversion therapy alone for now.

But I'm feeling decidedly nervous...

And we have Dr Hillary Cass entering the Lords.

PickAChew · 05/07/2024 08:31

Despite the huge majority, this is an election that the tories lost, rather than Labour winning and maybe we will still have some semblance of an NHS in 5 years. That's a good thing, surely?

The push to the far right does really concern me. I'm in the NE where Reform got lots of solid seconds. They collectively give even less of a hoot about people up here than the tories did with their so called levelling up and would happily have women tied to the kitchen sink.

ThirdSpaceFan1 · 05/07/2024 08:32

Awareness. I was clueless at the last election. I couldn’t bring myself to vote Tory this time but me and my friends are all quietly GC. There is a vast group of gc women who might now stand up and be counted if there was a move by Labour to do something radical.

Villagetoraiseachild · 05/07/2024 08:39

The gains have to be the NHS, education, care and more affordable homes.
Euphoria for now, but on some issues things can only get bitter.

Merrilydancing · 05/07/2024 08:40

That Keir knows there is a sizeable and vocal group of women who are watching him very closely on this and that we will not go away or be silenced anymore.

And that the SNP got an absolute hammering.

JohnnyRememberMe · 05/07/2024 08:42

I'm heartened by the fact that women's rights are an election issue.

We have Party of Women and WRNs. The grassroots movement is strong.

Wistfullythinking · 05/07/2024 08:43

I did eventually vote Labour. There are many sensible voices within the party. JKR and KS may yet have their meeting. As above, Hilary Cass is entering the lords.
There is so much more awareness now. It's been making the headlines for what...three weeks?
Nothing has changed yet.

ResisterOfTwaddleRex · 05/07/2024 08:46

Cass in the Lords = fine. Harman and Hodge = definitely not.

Just saw that Duffield extended her majority:

https://x.com/kent online/status/1809084850550321355?s=46&t=WHoOZZ_3Kv5G6-FyQuvE0LQ

Wistfullythinking · 05/07/2024 08:49

UpThePankhurst · 05/07/2024 08:19

Most didn't really actively want any of the parties at all, this was always going to be voters choosing the least worst option and the country needs change. Labour are in, but the Tories have the opposition which is much better balance than the LibDems would have been for women, children, reality and sanity in general, and Labour know they got the seats but not much of a pickup in vote: they are not riding high on an enthusiastic supportive electorate, just one wanting the country to stop being so shit. Sadly we - and Labour - are going to see many voters realise this isn't going to be the land of milk and honey they hoped for.

We're not where we were a few years ago: the word is out there and the articles are openly in the papers, any decisions made are going to be vigorously discussed, women's rights were heavily involved in this election, it probably got the Tories into opposition despite everything, and if Labour completely blow it in the next couple of years by proving they're out of touch mad misogynists, then women's rights are going to figure even more heavily in the next one.

The important thing now is not to sit down, or shut up, or step back in being clear; misogyny isn't going to wash in this country. I'll wait now with interest too to see how Starmer builds on his last minute panic declaration that women should have men-free spaces regardless of identity, because if he does another flipflop this early in power it's going to do his reputation no good at all.

Edited

Great post

Hairyesterdaygonetoday · 05/07/2024 09:02

Importantly, Labour only got a very small increase in percentage of votes. Even though they got a huge majority of seats, thanks to the first-past-the-post system. That should remind them not to risk losing more women’s votes.

Whatineed · 05/07/2024 09:03

RhymesWithOrange · 05/07/2024 08:24

We still have Kemi.
We have Rosie.
We have Wes Streeting (although I don't fully trust him).
We have JKR!
The SNP wipe-out could give Labour pause.
We have a better-mobilised grassroots.
We extracted some promises of protection for single-sex spaces in the campaign.
We can hope the so-called "bigger problems" means they'll leave the GRC process and conversion therapy alone for now.

But I'm feeling decidedly nervous...

Can I add Tonia Antoniazzi to that list? She's also been courageous in her stand for women.

NotBadConsidering · 05/07/2024 09:04

Starmer knows he won’t be able to slip anything through without anyone noticing and women won’t give up anything without a fight or risking making him look stupid. He knows he’s on thin ice with women’s rights.

zibzibara · 05/07/2024 09:06

My hope is that granting men even more access to female spaces is so far down on Labour's list of priorities that they won't get to it, especially as it's so controversial and they really would like a second term.

There's a huge amount of destitution and damage to the country in literally every other area that they need to focus on first.

Likesomemorecash · 05/07/2024 09:08

Exactly that NotBadConsidering.

And however watered down Labour is, they aren't as corrupt and self-serving as the current Conservative party.

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ResisterOfTwaddleRex · 05/07/2024 09:08

More radical second term planned

Labour will wake up to change — and a lot of familiar tensions.

https://www.thetimes.com/article/40a915ca-c3e5-4c91-b9aa-a3cf7feddeaf?shareToken=fe95f7373453ca14dbb91015b2e0c8dcc_

thirdfiddle · 05/07/2024 09:08

They've seen SNP with egg on their face thanks to self ID and Isla Bryson. They've seen enthusiastic advocating for it at best did nothing to save the SNP at the polling boxes.

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