I live in Islington North constituency and I’ve no idea who to vote for in this election.
My politics are left wing and I’m gender critical.
Our current MP is Corbyn, who is standing as an independent in this election. I don’t want to vote for him (and even more so after seeing him out on the campaign trail with Owen Jones 🙄).
I’m pissed off with Labour re self ID/Rosie Duffield treatment etc etc and don’t really want to vote for them either. Don’t want to vote for Greens and Lib Dems because of their batshit gender policies. Other candidates are Tory, Reform (no thanks), and an independent who I can’t find any information about. Sadly no other parties or even novelty candidates to choose from this election.
Normally I might consider spoiling my ballot paper… BUT, wondering if that’s risky this time? Whilst I’m angry with Labour, I would be pissed off if Corbyn got back in… Is it a risk? Should I hold my nose and vote for Labour?
interested to hear from other mumsnetters who are in a similar predicament. Who the hell do you vote for if you're left wing and gender critical?
(regular mumsnetter, have name changed because I’ve given my location).
Islington North - who to vote for?
Election2024 · 24/06/2024 17:48
Show more
Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 25/06/2024 16:16
My impression is that many extreme left-wingers really would rather not be in power at all than be in power but have to compromise on their principles. That's why they hate Tony Blair so much - he knew that Labour could only win if they could somehow persuade the floating voters and the centre-left people to vote Labour rather than Tory. He won three elections on the trot and actually managed to make some changes on the back of it.
Corbyn made Labour unelectable. When you think how much damage the Tories had done with austerity and Brexit, the last election should have been a shoo in for Labour. His supporters can bleat on as much as they like about the huge number of votes he got. He didn't get them in the constituencies where it counted and consequently Labour lost. This is what matters, not the popular vote. A more intelligent and tactically minded leader would have seen that.
The Tories want power at any cost so have no issues whatsoever doing what it takes to get elected.
Couldn't agree more. Someone asked me, when it looked like Diane Abbott would be running as an indie, who I was voting for. Well, more accurately, they suggested that I vote for her and 'teach Labour a lesson'. There's no way she'd win as an indie, and the Tories always come second here, so there's no way on earth I'd do that and risk a chinless wonder getting in. I've no desire to teach Labour a lesson
hmm].
This person is a dyed-in-the-wool Jeremy-was-wronged type, who refers to him by his first name as if they're best mates, thinks Tony Blair is a 'liar' and right-wing and still isn't over Iraq.
I've no time for that. I don't mind Starmer because he's a pragmatist and a centrist, and that's how you keep the Tories out.
MarkWithaC · 25/06/2024 16:52
Couldn't agree more. Someone asked me, when it looked like Diane Abbott would be running as an indie, who I was voting for. Well, more accurately, they suggested that I vote for her and 'teach Labour a lesson'. There's no way she'd win as an indie, and the Tories always come second here, so there's no way on earth I'd do that and risk a chinless wonder getting in. I've no desire to teach Labour a lessonhmm].
This person is a dyed-in-the-wool Jeremy-was-wronged type, who refers to him by his first name as if they're best mates, thinks Tony Blair is a 'liar' and right-wing and still isn't over Iraq.
I've no time for that. I don't mind Starmer because he's a pragmatist and a centrist, and that's how you keep the Tories out.
Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 25/06/2024 16:16
My impression is that many extreme left-wingers really would rather not be in power at all than be in power but have to compromise on their principles. That's why they hate Tony Blair so much - he knew that Labour could only win if they could somehow persuade the floating voters and the centre-left people to vote Labour rather than Tory. He won three elections on the trot and actually managed to make some changes on the back of it.
Corbyn made Labour unelectable. When you think how much damage the Tories had done with austerity and Brexit, the last election should have been a shoo in for Labour. His supporters can bleat on as much as they like about the huge number of votes he got. He didn't get them in the constituencies where it counted and consequently Labour lost. This is what matters, not the popular vote. A more intelligent and tactically minded leader would have seen that.
The Tories want power at any cost so have no issues whatsoever doing what it takes to get elected.
Election2024 · 25/06/2024 17:29
Agree with both of you.
My politics are generally more left wing than the average Brit and in a perfect world I’d like a party in power to reflect that… but I’m also a realist - the British public are not going to vote for that!
I’m not fond of Blair, but I can respect that he made Labour electable. Surely it’s better to compromise and have some good policies put in place than let the Tories in and have nothing you want? I don’t understand why some other lefties don’t see this… “6th form politics” is a cliche, but it’s true, these people haven’t grown up.
And that takes me back to my anger about many Corbynistas - if the Tories get in they are not badly affected, they’ve usually got decent jobs, housing and good family circumstances… they will get by with a few years of Tory rule. It’s the less fortunate people who will struggle whilst they sit there all smug about their ‘pure’ politics.
I realise now that I have to vote Labour, even if the gender issues piss me off. Thank you everyone for your contributions to this thread, it’s been helpful.
MarkWithaC · 25/06/2024 16:52
Couldn't agree more. Someone asked me, when it looked like Diane Abbott would be running as an indie, who I was voting for. Well, more accurately, they suggested that I vote for her and 'teach Labour a lesson'. There's no way she'd win as an indie, and the Tories always come second here, so there's no way on earth I'd do that and risk a chinless wonder getting in. I've no desire to teach Labour a lessonhmm].
This person is a dyed-in-the-wool Jeremy-was-wronged type, who refers to him by his first name as if they're best mates, thinks Tony Blair is a 'liar' and right-wing and still isn't over Iraq.
I've no time for that. I don't mind Starmer because he's a pragmatist and a centrist, and that's how you keep the Tories out.
Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 25/06/2024 16:16
My impression is that many extreme left-wingers really would rather not be in power at all than be in power but have to compromise on their principles. That's why they hate Tony Blair so much - he knew that Labour could only win if they could somehow persuade the floating voters and the centre-left people to vote Labour rather than Tory. He won three elections on the trot and actually managed to make some changes on the back of it.
Corbyn made Labour unelectable. When you think how much damage the Tories had done with austerity and Brexit, the last election should have been a shoo in for Labour. His supporters can bleat on as much as they like about the huge number of votes he got. He didn't get them in the constituencies where it counted and consequently Labour lost. This is what matters, not the popular vote. A more intelligent and tactically minded leader would have seen that.
The Tories want power at any cost so have no issues whatsoever doing what it takes to get elected.
InWithPeaceOutWithStress · 25/06/2024 19:33
I continue to be perplexed at how the GC movement seems to be so passionately anti-Labour given they:
- Dropped plans to bring in Self-ID and have confirmed this position in their 2024 manifesto.
- Have reiterated their intent to protect single-sex exemptions.
- Have been making consistent overtures during the election campaign to reassure on the above points and that they are listening to women now.
Yes, it is true that their position is weaker than the conservatives but I fully believe that is partly due to them not having been the party in Government, and therefore they haven't been subjected to the persistent campaigning that women have been doing on this issue the past few years. They haven't been forced to reckon with the issue in policy making across Government in the same way the tories have. The Conservatives did not benignly choose to take our side on this issue. They were bloody well forced into it by the hard work of women over the last 6 plus years.
If you are generally pro-Labour apart from the gender issue, then it is really baffling to me why you would refuse to see the gains we've made within the Labour Party, and have a bit more faith in our ability to continue to keep the pressure up. The Labour Party are not pro self-ID like the Greens and Lib dems, their position has shifted. I get that people were angry at the bat-shit quotes that Labour MPs were coming out with in the past couple of years when asked 'what is a woman', and in well-meaning attempts to not be perceived as anti-trans, but surely we can look past those embarrassing gaffes and grip the current reality? the number of actual TRA MPs in Labour right now is extremely low.
maltravers · 25/06/2024 20:12
I’m usually a Labour voter. Taking your points in the context of Labour’s stated policies and statements:
-GRC on day one with one “specialised” doctor’s sign off is self ID via the back door. Have you heard of the Webberleys?
-lawyerly insistence on “safe spaces” not “single sex spaces” indicates very strongly that these spaces will be open not by reference to sex, ie to TW and only relevant anyway where violence not dignity and privacy is concerned.
— of course - they want any vote they can get. But answering “trans bla blah bla” when anyone raises women’s rights is another strong indicator where their priorities lie (women, shut up, there’s an election on).
And asking to talk to women’s groups immediately before an election and after years of feigned deafness but so close that these conversations will actually take place after the election (if at all) is hardly convincing to the battle weary cynics amongst us.
InWithPeaceOutWithStress · 25/06/2024 19:33
I continue to be perplexed at how the GC movement seems to be so passionately anti-Labour given they:
- Dropped plans to bring in Self-ID and have confirmed this position in their 2024 manifesto.
- Have reiterated their intent to protect single-sex exemptions.
- Have been making consistent overtures during the election campaign to reassure on the above points and that they are listening to women now.
Yes, it is true that their position is weaker than the conservatives but I fully believe that is partly due to them not having been the party in Government, and therefore they haven't been subjected to the persistent campaigning that women have been doing on this issue the past few years. They haven't been forced to reckon with the issue in policy making across Government in the same way the tories have. The Conservatives did not benignly choose to take our side on this issue. They were bloody well forced into it by the hard work of women over the last 6 plus years.
If you are generally pro-Labour apart from the gender issue, then it is really baffling to me why you would refuse to see the gains we've made within the Labour Party, and have a bit more faith in our ability to continue to keep the pressure up. The Labour Party are not pro self-ID like the Greens and Lib dems, their position has shifted. I get that people were angry at the bat-shit quotes that Labour MPs were coming out with in the past couple of years when asked 'what is a woman', and in well-meaning attempts to not be perceived as anti-trans, but surely we can look past those embarrassing gaffes and grip the current reality? the number of actual TRA MPs in Labour right now is extremely low.
InWithPeaceOutWithStress · 25/06/2024 19:33
I continue to be perplexed at how the GC movement seems to be so passionately anti-Labour given they:
- Dropped plans to bring in Self-ID and have confirmed this position in their 2024 manifesto.
- Have reiterated their intent to protect single-sex exemptions.
- Have been making consistent overtures during the election campaign to reassure on the above points and that they are listening to women now.
Yes, it is true that their position is weaker than the conservatives but I fully believe that is partly due to them not having been the party in Government, and therefore they haven't been subjected to the persistent campaigning that women have been doing on this issue the past few years. They haven't been forced to reckon with the issue in policy making across Government in the same way the tories have. The Conservatives did not benignly choose to take our side on this issue. They were bloody well forced into it by the hard work of women over the last 6 plus years.
If you are generally pro-Labour apart from the gender issue, then it is really baffling to me why you would refuse to see the gains we've made within the Labour Party, and have a bit more faith in our ability to continue to keep the pressure up. The Labour Party are not pro self-ID like the Greens and Lib dems, their position has shifted. I get that people were angry at the bat-shit quotes that Labour MPs were coming out with in the past couple of years when asked 'what is a woman', and in well-meaning attempts to not be perceived as anti-trans, but surely we can look past those embarrassing gaffes and grip the current reality? the number of actual TRA MPs in Labour right now is extremely low.
x.com
https://x.com/soniasodha/status/1805191721967325425
InWithPeaceOutWithStress · 25/06/2024 20:24
I genuinely think you and others are being far too pessimistic. They would need to consult on any new proposed legislation, the same thing would happen as happened to the tories, it just wouldn't happen. Bringing self-ID in through the back door is just not going to be a priority for Starmer's new Gvmt, I really can't see it happening.
maltravers · 25/06/2024 20:12
I’m usually a Labour voter. Taking your points in the context of Labour’s stated policies and statements:
-GRC on day one with one “specialised” doctor’s sign off is self ID via the back door. Have you heard of the Webberleys?
-lawyerly insistence on “safe spaces” not “single sex spaces” indicates very strongly that these spaces will be open not by reference to sex, ie to TW and only relevant anyway where violence not dignity and privacy is concerned.
— of course - they want any vote they can get. But answering “trans bla blah bla” when anyone raises women’s rights is another strong indicator where their priorities lie (women, shut up, there’s an election on).
And asking to talk to women’s groups immediately before an election and after years of feigned deafness but so close that these conversations will actually take place after the election (if at all) is hardly convincing to the battle weary cynics amongst us.
InWithPeaceOutWithStress · 25/06/2024 19:33
I continue to be perplexed at how the GC movement seems to be so passionately anti-Labour given they:
- Dropped plans to bring in Self-ID and have confirmed this position in their 2024 manifesto.
- Have reiterated their intent to protect single-sex exemptions.
- Have been making consistent overtures during the election campaign to reassure on the above points and that they are listening to women now.
Yes, it is true that their position is weaker than the conservatives but I fully believe that is partly due to them not having been the party in Government, and therefore they haven't been subjected to the persistent campaigning that women have been doing on this issue the past few years. They haven't been forced to reckon with the issue in policy making across Government in the same way the tories have. The Conservatives did not benignly choose to take our side on this issue. They were bloody well forced into it by the hard work of women over the last 6 plus years.
If you are generally pro-Labour apart from the gender issue, then it is really baffling to me why you would refuse to see the gains we've made within the Labour Party, and have a bit more faith in our ability to continue to keep the pressure up. The Labour Party are not pro self-ID like the Greens and Lib dems, their position has shifted. I get that people were angry at the bat-shit quotes that Labour MPs were coming out with in the past couple of years when asked 'what is a woman', and in well-meaning attempts to not be perceived as anti-trans, but surely we can look past those embarrassing gaffes and grip the current reality? the number of actual TRA MPs in Labour right now is extremely low.
Election2024 · 25/06/2024 20:30
I don’t find Labours position very clear.
This thread by Sonia Sodha answers better than I can:
https://x.com/soniasodha/status/1805191721967325425
eg a snippet:
“The Equality Act contains exceptions that allow for provision of single-sex spaces, services and sports. But it doesn’t define sex. The Gender Recognition Act allows males to be treated as tho they were female for most legal purposes.
We simply don’t know if GRA provisions mean a man should be treated as though he were female for Equality Act purposes. It’s unclear & Labour are misleading us when they say the Equality Act doesn’t need clarification on this point.
Re the process for a GRC - their proposals say that only one doctor will be able to grant this, rather than the current two doctors
And the spousal exit/veto clause - they propose that the trans person can be granted a GRC before their spouse has obtained divorce/annulment.
InWithPeaceOutWithStress · 25/06/2024 19:33
I continue to be perplexed at how the GC movement seems to be so passionately anti-Labour given they:
- Dropped plans to bring in Self-ID and have confirmed this position in their 2024 manifesto.
- Have reiterated their intent to protect single-sex exemptions.
- Have been making consistent overtures during the election campaign to reassure on the above points and that they are listening to women now.
Yes, it is true that their position is weaker than the conservatives but I fully believe that is partly due to them not having been the party in Government, and therefore they haven't been subjected to the persistent campaigning that women have been doing on this issue the past few years. They haven't been forced to reckon with the issue in policy making across Government in the same way the tories have. The Conservatives did not benignly choose to take our side on this issue. They were bloody well forced into it by the hard work of women over the last 6 plus years.
If you are generally pro-Labour apart from the gender issue, then it is really baffling to me why you would refuse to see the gains we've made within the Labour Party, and have a bit more faith in our ability to continue to keep the pressure up. The Labour Party are not pro self-ID like the Greens and Lib dems, their position has shifted. I get that people were angry at the bat-shit quotes that Labour MPs were coming out with in the past couple of years when asked 'what is a woman', and in well-meaning attempts to not be perceived as anti-trans, but surely we can look past those embarrassing gaffes and grip the current reality? the number of actual TRA MPs in Labour right now is extremely low.
saraclara · 25/06/2024 22:48
I am still undecided as to whether to vote Reform (as a protest vote)
WTAF @CorbynSchmorbyn ? Seriously? That's the most stupid thing I've heard in a long time. A vote for racism and sexism and every other ism going, as a protest?
I've heard it all now.
artant · 26/06/2024 09:49
They’ve kind of got it covered just by having Nigel Farage as their leader.
Obviously Labour or corbyn
No one with half a brain cell is going to vote Tory over one single issue 
(which I feel passionately about)
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