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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Islington North - who to vote for?

110 replies

Election2024 · 24/06/2024 17:48

I live in Islington North constituency and I’ve no idea who to vote for in this election.
My politics are left wing and I’m gender critical.
Our current MP is Corbyn, who is standing as an independent in this election. I don’t want to vote for him (and even more so after seeing him out on the campaign trail with Owen Jones 🙄).

I’m pissed off with Labour re self ID/Rosie Duffield treatment etc etc and don’t really want to vote for them either. Don’t want to vote for Greens and Lib Dems because of their batshit gender policies. Other candidates are Tory, Reform (no thanks), and an independent who I can’t find any information about. Sadly no other parties or even novelty candidates to choose from this election.

Normally I might consider spoiling my ballot paper… BUT, wondering if that’s risky this time? Whilst I’m angry with Labour, I would be pissed off if Corbyn got back in… Is it a risk? Should I hold my nose and vote for Labour?

interested to hear from other mumsnetters who are in a similar predicament. Who the hell do you vote for if you're left wing and gender critical?

(regular mumsnetter, have name changed because I’ve given my location).

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winterrabbit · 25/06/2024 00:08

coldpizzalover · 24/06/2024 21:04

Hello I live in Islington North!! I had a long conversation with a member of the Labour Party on my doorstep who explained the local situation with regard to Corbyn and who 100% understood my fears about women’s safety and what is happening to our children in schools. I agree with you entirely about not trusting Labour yet i would also do everything in my power to stop Corbyn who is an enormous populist and divisive figure and an antisemite. Happy to chat more if you DM me and I will share what he told me on the doorstep

I am in Islington North and in the same dilemma. No way am I voting for Corbyn and can't bring myself to vote Conservative again after the absolute shit show of the last few years. I was going to vote Labour but massively put off by Starmer on Question Time (I agree with Tony Blair) insincere bullshit. I also have a child in private school so feels like self sabotage to vote Labour and I have a feeling the working middle classes are going to get even more clobbered on tax. So not sure what to do. Possibly Reform, Conservative (if I can bear it) or spoil my paper.

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winterrabbit · 25/06/2024 00:16

urbanbuddha · 24/06/2024 20:54

This is going to be controversial but if I was in Islington North I’d vote for Corbyn. He’s a very good constituency MP. And more than that he’d take Sir Keir Starmer and the Labour Party to task when it needs doing (and sometimes when it doesn’t need doing). The Labour Party is a bit detached from its voters and it needs someone who’ll interfere with the steamroller effect in whatever way. It should be a broad church. I really dislike the way the chosen are being parachuted into seats without regard to what the local party thinks. So I’d send a reminder that people power does actually count.

I read the Corbyn leaflet dropped through my door and there wasn't a single policy or statement that spoke to me as a professional full time worker and mother of three. I want to hear about what he's doing to do to reduce the shocking levels of knife crime, muggings and anti-social behaviour in the area that is completely eroding quality of life. He just sees the professional classes as cash cows to fund his socialist crap. Anti-semite, obsessed with Gaza and refugees but can't be bothered to address what's going on in his own backyard. And that's not even getting into his views on women.

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Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 25/06/2024 07:41

I can't say I'm surprised to hear that, @winterrabbit. Time to trot out this prescient article again: https://www.feministcurrent.com/2018/03/23/leftist-women-uk-refuse-accept-labours-attempts-silence-critiques-gender-identity/ Scroll down to the bit about the Deptford Project and the total failure of students from Goldsmiths to grasp the reality of the lives of working class women in Deptford. They saw it as an opportunity to evangelise about their totalitarian ideas on language, identity etc rather than to offer any practical help and support.

A long time ago I belonged to UCU, or its predecessor union, the AUT, and every single time when it came to voting a vast booklet would appear full of candidate statements, more than half of which had far more to say about boycotting Israel than the issues I wanted my union to focus on, i.e. employment conditions, salary, pensions and university funding in the UK. I made a point of voting for the other candidates. It did no good, of course, because most people didn't bother to vote at all. I left in the end. The union was as much good as a chocolate teapot.

Leftist women in the UK refuse to accept Labour's attempts to silence critiques of gender identity

Working class women and Labour Party members are incensed at being harassed and silenced in their attempts to discuss gender identity. But they are fighting back.

https://www.feministcurrent.com/2018/03/23/leftist-women-uk-refuse-accept-labours-attempts-silence-critiques-gender-identity

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DramaLlamaBangBang · 25/06/2024 07:54

long time ago I belonged to UCU, or its predecessor union, the AUT, and every single time when it came to voting a vast booklet would appear full of candidate statements, more than half of which had far more to say about boycotting Israel than the issues I wanted my union to focus on, i.e. employment conditions, salary, pensions and university funding in the UK.
I was the same. Utterly useless, have just sleepwalked into deprofessionalising teaching while spouting ideological bullshit all the time. I paid my subs for them to help teachers, not go on marches about trans rights.

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MrsAudreyShapiro · 25/06/2024 08:18

I live in Islington North and I will probably hold my nose and vote Labour. I can't vote for Corbyn because of the antisemitism thing. He was an okay constituency MP, but he was a disasterous leader of the opposition. I was also 🙄about little OJ campaigning for him.

It will be a close run thing and I just don't want Corbyn back.

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CassieMaddox · 25/06/2024 09:25

Hyperions · 24/06/2024 18:31

I mind about those of course. But the loss of women's rights to dignity safety and privacy. And the poor women in prison with rapists come first.

And the poor women in prison with rapists come first.

What, you mean the rapists the Conservatives put there?

I wouldn't worry, shortly noone will be going to prison at all. Just another thing broken by the Tories

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx777w9vgv9o

Prison officer inside jail

Jails to run out of space in days, governors warn

The police will be unable to detain people, putting the public at risk, the Prison Governors’ Association warns.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx777w9vgv9o

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CassieMaddox · 25/06/2024 09:27

winterrabbit · 25/06/2024 00:08

I am in Islington North and in the same dilemma. No way am I voting for Corbyn and can't bring myself to vote Conservative again after the absolute shit show of the last few years. I was going to vote Labour but massively put off by Starmer on Question Time (I agree with Tony Blair) insincere bullshit. I also have a child in private school so feels like self sabotage to vote Labour and I have a feeling the working middle classes are going to get even more clobbered on tax. So not sure what to do. Possibly Reform, Conservative (if I can bear it) or spoil my paper.

Why on earth would you vote Reform UK Ltd? Nigel Farage is a raging misogynist. And the way he's running the party, as a business with him as CEO, means what he says goes, and the "Contract" is not worth the paper it's written on.

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JennyForeigner · 25/06/2024 09:37

There is nowhere in the country I would rather vote Labour than your seat, purely against the horrible misogynistic old dinosaurs of the Labour left and their stubborn stupid old totem.

And because Owen Jones doesn't want you to. Don't you really really want to mug off Owen Jones?

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MarkWithaC · 25/06/2024 09:50

I don’t know how the other parties do in your area but, until Diane Abbott was confirmed as running for Labour here in mine, I was wrestling with the same issue. As an indie she might have split the left-wing vote and allowed in the Tories, who tend to come second here. So after much agonising, I’d decided that I’d vote for Labour. I
i still will; I think Starmer is currently trying to please everyone/no one and will change his tune on women’s rights when/if he gets in. The Greens and Lib Dems, by contrast, I suspect actually believe and would stick to their gender policies.
Least worst option and all that.

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Election2024 · 25/06/2024 10:27

Thank you everyone for your replies. Lots to think about!

I will use my vote. Not voting at all (as a pp suggested) is something I can’t do.

Spoiling my ballot as a protest does appeal but how much notice does anyone really take? And it feels less ‘responsible’ in a seat where every vote might count.

I think I will hold my nose and vote Labour, purely in the hope of ousting Corbyn. It doesn’t make me feel great - I so wish I was voting FOR someone in a positive way.

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Election2024 · 25/06/2024 10:28

JennyForeigner · 25/06/2024 09:37

There is nowhere in the country I would rather vote Labour than your seat, purely against the horrible misogynistic old dinosaurs of the Labour left and their stubborn stupid old totem.

And because Owen Jones doesn't want you to. Don't you really really want to mug off Owen Jones?

I loathe Owen Jones - if my vote for Labour helps to piss him off, I’ll take that!

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CassieMaddox · 25/06/2024 10:34

Election2024 · 25/06/2024 10:27

Thank you everyone for your replies. Lots to think about!

I will use my vote. Not voting at all (as a pp suggested) is something I can’t do.

Spoiling my ballot as a protest does appeal but how much notice does anyone really take? And it feels less ‘responsible’ in a seat where every vote might count.

I think I will hold my nose and vote Labour, purely in the hope of ousting Corbyn. It doesn’t make me feel great - I so wish I was voting FOR someone in a positive way.

Yeah I think people are a bit narcissistic about spoilt ballots! I think people are too busy counting to give it more than a cursory glance....

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Election2024 · 25/06/2024 10:37

CassieMaddox · 25/06/2024 10:34

Yeah I think people are a bit narcissistic about spoilt ballots! I think people are too busy counting to give it more than a cursory glance....

Yes, I doubt anyone read #labourlosingwomen when I scrawled it on my ballot paper before… but it made me feel better to have a little rant! 😆

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UtilitarianNameChange · 25/06/2024 10:38

CassieMaddox · 25/06/2024 10:34

Yeah I think people are a bit narcissistic about spoilt ballots! I think people are too busy counting to give it more than a cursory glance....

in a close election all spoilt ballots are scrutinised by agents for the candidates.

it’s often one of the most fun aspects of count night!

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CassieMaddox · 25/06/2024 10:42

In all seriousness I wish I could choose to vote on principles but this election is way too important for that as I really think another 5 years of the Tories will destroy the country. Sad

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Redshoeblueshoe · 25/06/2024 10:51

When we had the vote for Police Commissioner in Manchester so many people ruined their ballots papers it was on the local news. After that it was no longer up for a vote.

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Election2024 · 25/06/2024 10:52

urbanbuddha · 24/06/2024 20:54

This is going to be controversial but if I was in Islington North I’d vote for Corbyn. He’s a very good constituency MP. And more than that he’d take Sir Keir Starmer and the Labour Party to task when it needs doing (and sometimes when it doesn’t need doing). The Labour Party is a bit detached from its voters and it needs someone who’ll interfere with the steamroller effect in whatever way. It should be a broad church. I really dislike the way the chosen are being parachuted into seats without regard to what the local party thinks. So I’d send a reminder that people power does actually count.

I understand your thinking. I don’t like candidates being parachuted in. I am often fond of the ‘difficult’ politicians, the rabble rousers who ask the awkward questions… but Corbyn has gone too far for me.

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dougalfromthemagicroundabout · 25/06/2024 10:59

CassieMaddox · 25/06/2024 10:42

In all seriousness I wish I could choose to vote on principles but this election is way too important for that as I really think another 5 years of the Tories will destroy the country. Sad

I hear you, but do you really think Labour will improve anything because I have 0 hope they will, if anything I think they're so incompetent it'll get worse.

With the Tories they're quite happy for the poor and middle classes to get poorer and everything start to fall apart until the point it impacts on their cash flow, at which point they'll step in to stop the rot.

With Labour I think they're so wedded to ludicrous ideology (on many issues) that they'll be happy for there to be immense damage for the "cause". I also think they're allergic to reality so will find the practical realities of trying to improve things very hard to do.

My probably vain hope is for more votes for independents and more independent MPs.

And looking to emigrate in a few years.

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IslingtonNorthtoo · 25/06/2024 11:53

Election2024 · 25/06/2024 10:52

I understand your thinking. I don’t like candidates being parachuted in. I am often fond of the ‘difficult’ politicians, the rabble rousers who ask the awkward questions… but Corbyn has gone too far for me.

How has he gone too far in your opinion? (apart from the sex/gender debate, on which you'd (I'd) vote for neither candidate)?

serious question - what is wrong with being really left wing? And if you don't believe that he is anti-semitic why not vote for him? He's a real socialist right? Which is more than Starmer is?

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urbanbuddha · 25/06/2024 12:44

This made me smile - an effect which has been sadly missing from this campaign. (from getvoting.org)

Islington North - who to vote for?
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CassieMaddox · 25/06/2024 12:48

dougalfromthemagicroundabout · 25/06/2024 10:59

I hear you, but do you really think Labour will improve anything because I have 0 hope they will, if anything I think they're so incompetent it'll get worse.

With the Tories they're quite happy for the poor and middle classes to get poorer and everything start to fall apart until the point it impacts on their cash flow, at which point they'll step in to stop the rot.

With Labour I think they're so wedded to ludicrous ideology (on many issues) that they'll be happy for there to be immense damage for the "cause". I also think they're allergic to reality so will find the practical realities of trying to improve things very hard to do.

My probably vain hope is for more votes for independents and more independent MPs.

And looking to emigrate in a few years.

Yes I do. The current bunch on Conservatives are a lying, law breaking bunch who appear mainly concerned with lining their own pockets. No other government in my lifetime have been so blatantly corrupt. Its really sad we now think they are all the same and that's what we deserve.
I'm not thinking Labour will improve things overnight but at least they aren't lying law breakers. That's good enough for me right now.

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Election2024 · 25/06/2024 12:53

IslingtonNorthtoo · 25/06/2024 11:53

How has he gone too far in your opinion? (apart from the sex/gender debate, on which you'd (I'd) vote for neither candidate)?

serious question - what is wrong with being really left wing? And if you don't believe that he is anti-semitic why not vote for him? He's a real socialist right? Which is more than Starmer is?

Oh, I don’t have an issue with him being left, in the traditional sense, it’s the other stuff…. Hamas being his “friends”, IRA in the past (I was always a bit uncomfortable about this). Not addressing anti semitism. His belief that TWAW. He was hopeless re Brexit. His vanity - not stepping aside when he should have, causing the Labour Party to become unelectable in 2019. I think he’s arrogant and was a divisive and poor leader.

Professor Peppy earlier in the thread said that he seems to “typify a certain type of left-wing man: ideological purity and optics above all else.”
I would agree with that. It’s the OJ/Novara media crowd - I’m not sure this type really want to be in power?they’d rather shout from opposition with their ‘luxury beliefs’. And that never helps ordinary working class people.

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Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 25/06/2024 16:16

My impression is that many extreme left-wingers really would rather not be in power at all than be in power but have to compromise on their principles. That's why they hate Tony Blair so much - he knew that Labour could only win if they could somehow persuade the floating voters and the centre-left people to vote Labour rather than Tory. He won three elections on the trot and actually managed to make some changes on the back of it.

Corbyn made Labour unelectable. When you think how much damage the Tories had done with austerity and Brexit, the last election should have been a shoo in for Labour. His supporters can bleat on as much as they like about the huge number of votes he got. He didn't get them in the constituencies where it counted and consequently Labour lost. This is what matters, not the popular vote. A more intelligent and tactically minded leader would have seen that.

The Tories want power at any cost so have no issues whatsoever doing what it takes to get elected.

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CorbynSchmorbyn · 25/06/2024 16:24

Hi @maltravers , you asked about Party of Women - as far as I can tell it is all being done on a shoestring (and possibly the back of a fag packet). I could upload a copy of Lesley's flyer but all it basically says is the basic position of saying No woman has a penis, No man has a vagina, Non binary is nonsense and transing kids is abuse - calls for repeal of the GRA and getting the ideology of out schools, preserving women's sex based rights..

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