New report says she was trustee at a church while gay conversion therapy was happening. The kind of conversion therapy that involves exorcism of demons.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4ngprp5xdvo
As a director and trustee at the charity behind the church, external from September 2016 to September 2018, Mrs Cates, had safeguarding responsibilities for those who attended
Thought this might interest some posters on here. Not sure I would trust her with safeguarding after this, if indeed she retains her seat.
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Miriam Cates
282 replies
CassieMaddox · 01/07/2024 23:54
Miriam Cates: Tory candidate was trustee of church that ‘endorsed’ conversion therapy
A report finds St Thomas Philadelphia church in Sheffield had "supported" conversion therapy.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4ngprp5xdvo
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OP posts:
UtilitarianNameChange ·
02/07/2024 14:05
CassieMaddox · 02/07/2024 13:43
"Conversion therapy" is an accepted term for a load of practices aiming to change someone's sexuality. It's nothing to do with "mental health practice". Why would you want to take away the words to talk about how gay people are abused?
UtilitarianNameChange · 02/07/2024 13:12
Conversion ‘therapy’ doesn’t exist.
Stop conflating torture with mental health practice.
CassieMaddox · 02/07/2024 12:57
Conversion therapy is abuse.
She was a trustee for the church while this was going on so responsible for safeguarding.
She clearly failed in that responsibility. I'm not saying she was abusive herself but she certainly was part of a culture where abuse was allowed to happen.
Thelnebriati · 02/07/2024 11:50
Are you saying Miriam Cates is responsible for historic abuse?
Do you have evidence she is a safeguarding risk?
'guilt by association' is a logical fallacy.
ChristinaXYZ ·
02/07/2024 14:13
OvaHere · 02/07/2024 00:07
Not a fan of religion so I'm not going to defend churches like this. I wouldn't be a member of one.
The article is a bit of a hit piece on Cates though. They even admit the alleged incident took place 2 years before she was a trustee. They don't seem to be able to directly link her to what was happening. Whether exorcism is something she believes I don't know. She says not.
In the interest of balance perhaps the BBC could also finally get around to an article about the WPATH files that they've been studiously ignoring.
ScrollingLeaves ·
02/07/2024 14:16
ScrollingLeaves · 02/07/2024 13:49
It was October 2022 when all this about Miriam Cates was brought up before.
At that time it was because she asked a question to Rishi Sunak about the Ban Conversion Therapy Bill.
It was discussed on Mumsnet at the time with details :
www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4653634-miriam-cates-question-to-pm?reply=120708442&utm_campaign=reply&utm_medium=share
CassieMaddox ·
02/07/2024 15:06
UtilitarianNameChange · 02/07/2024 14:05
It’s a deliberate conflation by those who want to outlaw exploratory therapy for gender distressed kids.
Pretty sad to see you perpetuate it on FWR.
CassieMaddox · 02/07/2024 13:43
"Conversion therapy" is an accepted term for a load of practices aiming to change someone's sexuality. It's nothing to do with "mental health practice". Why would you want to take away the words to talk about how gay people are abused?
UtilitarianNameChange · 02/07/2024 13:12
Conversion ‘therapy’ doesn’t exist.
Stop conflating torture with mental health practice.
CassieMaddox · 02/07/2024 12:57
Conversion therapy is abuse.
She was a trustee for the church while this was going on so responsible for safeguarding.
She clearly failed in that responsibility. I'm not saying she was abusive herself but she certainly was part of a culture where abuse was allowed to happen.
Thelnebriati · 02/07/2024 11:50
Are you saying Miriam Cates is responsible for historic abuse?
Do you have evidence she is a safeguarding risk?
'guilt by association' is a logical fallacy.
OP posts:
CassieMaddox ·
02/07/2024 15:07
ChristinaXYZ · 02/07/2024 14:13
Agree it is a hit piece. I attend a church but am not involved in the running of it. I have no idea what all the different groups and sub-groups get up to. I would be horrified if I found anything like gay conversion going on and would raise a complaint somehow but as one of our clergy regularly attends Pride and spouts gender ideology from the pulpit I am not too worried about the demon-worriers type of conversion. Telling gay kids they might be a different sex is a possibility but I am not repsonisble for that either. I go to commune with God not the church hierarchy.
We need to stop this guilt by association. It is what the TRAs do.
OvaHere · 02/07/2024 00:07
Not a fan of religion so I'm not going to defend churches like this. I wouldn't be a member of one.
The article is a bit of a hit piece on Cates though. They even admit the alleged incident took place 2 years before she was a trustee. They don't seem to be able to directly link her to what was happening. Whether exorcism is something she believes I don't know. She says not.
In the interest of balance perhaps the BBC could also finally get around to an article about the WPATH files that they've been studiously ignoring.
OP posts:
CassieMaddox ·
02/07/2024 15:11
ScrollingLeaves · 02/07/2024 14:41
@CassieMaddox · Today 13:43
"Conversion therapy" is an accepted term for a load of practices aiming to change someone's sexuality. It's nothing to do with "mental health practice". Why would you want to take away the words to talk about how gay people are abused?
You are seeing things the wrong way round imo.
If you want to see how a gay young person might be abused, by a ‘ban’ on conversion therapy, read this by a gay man and a lawyer, Denis Kavanagh, of the Gay Men’s Network, who writes very clearly and eloquently about it.
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/6200252604e9795287de2ada/t/6671b5cc373b6025fffcbbec/1718728141412/GMN+Labour+Party+Manifesto+Response+2024+Branded+V2.pdf
Miriam Cates brought up the harm Mermaids was causing young people during PMQs in 2022. Did you know the founder of Mermaids had a possibly gay son whose feminine tastes repelled his father? They took him to be castrated abroad when he was sixteen. ( MC did not bring this personal story up however - just the harm of binders, puberty blockers, and the pathway to surgeries and some other points see clip posted previously .)
No praying could have ever been more designed to ‘convert’ than what happened to that boy, or others like him, nor any prayers competed and won against those parents in a harm-done competition.
This MC story was originally brought out by tras in 2022 because she dared to bring Mermaids into public scrutiny during PMQs.
OP posts:
UtilitarianNameChange ·
02/07/2024 15:16
CassieMaddox · 02/07/2024 15:06
Yes. But in this case we are talking about its original meaning not the version including gender. So I'm not perpetuating anything.
I'm pretty sad FWR doesn't want to discuss an issue impacting same sex attracted people.
UtilitarianNameChange · 02/07/2024 14:05
It’s a deliberate conflation by those who want to outlaw exploratory therapy for gender distressed kids.
Pretty sad to see you perpetuate it on FWR.
CassieMaddox · 02/07/2024 13:43
"Conversion therapy" is an accepted term for a load of practices aiming to change someone's sexuality. It's nothing to do with "mental health practice". Why would you want to take away the words to talk about how gay people are abused?
UtilitarianNameChange · 02/07/2024 13:12
Conversion ‘therapy’ doesn’t exist.
Stop conflating torture with mental health practice.
CassieMaddox · 02/07/2024 12:57
Conversion therapy is abuse.
She was a trustee for the church while this was going on so responsible for safeguarding.
She clearly failed in that responsibility. I'm not saying she was abusive herself but she certainly was part of a culture where abuse was allowed to happen.
Thelnebriati · 02/07/2024 11:50
Are you saying Miriam Cates is responsible for historic abuse?
Do you have evidence she is a safeguarding risk?
'guilt by association' is a logical fallacy.
ScrollingLeaves ·
02/07/2024 15:29
CassieMaddox · 02/07/2024 15:11
Just because I'm anti homosexual conversion therapy doesn't mean I'm pro mermaids. Honestly. You can be anti both things.
This is nothing to do with trans issues. Its to do with regressive, harmful, anti gay practices in a church, and the lack of appropriate safeguarding.
ScrollingLeaves · 02/07/2024 14:41
@CassieMaddox · Today 13:43
"Conversion therapy" is an accepted term for a load of practices aiming to change someone's sexuality. It's nothing to do with "mental health practice". Why would you want to take away the words to talk about how gay people are abused?
You are seeing things the wrong way round imo.
If you want to see how a gay young person might be abused, by a ‘ban’ on conversion therapy, read this by a gay man and a lawyer, Denis Kavanagh, of the Gay Men’s Network, who writes very clearly and eloquently about it.
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/6200252604e9795287de2ada/t/6671b5cc373b6025fffcbbec/1718728141412/GMN+Labour+Party+Manifesto+Response+2024+Branded+V2.pdf
Miriam Cates brought up the harm Mermaids was causing young people during PMQs in 2022. Did you know the founder of Mermaids had a possibly gay son whose feminine tastes repelled his father? They took him to be castrated abroad when he was sixteen. ( MC did not bring this personal story up however - just the harm of binders, puberty blockers, and the pathway to surgeries and some other points see clip posted previously .)
No praying could have ever been more designed to ‘convert’ than what happened to that boy, or others like him, nor any prayers competed and won against those parents in a harm-done competition.
This MC story was originally brought out by tras in 2022 because she dared to bring Mermaids into public scrutiny during PMQs.
Alwaystired94 ·
02/07/2024 15:32
This reply has been deleted
This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines - previously banned poster.
CassieMaddox ·
02/07/2024 15:36
UtilitarianNameChange · 02/07/2024 15:16
You are bringing TRA talking points to the board again.
It’s tedious.
CassieMaddox · 02/07/2024 15:06
Yes. But in this case we are talking about its original meaning not the version including gender. So I'm not perpetuating anything.
I'm pretty sad FWR doesn't want to discuss an issue impacting same sex attracted people.
UtilitarianNameChange · 02/07/2024 14:05
It’s a deliberate conflation by those who want to outlaw exploratory therapy for gender distressed kids.
Pretty sad to see you perpetuate it on FWR.
CassieMaddox · 02/07/2024 13:43
"Conversion therapy" is an accepted term for a load of practices aiming to change someone's sexuality. It's nothing to do with "mental health practice". Why would you want to take away the words to talk about how gay people are abused?
UtilitarianNameChange · 02/07/2024 13:12
Conversion ‘therapy’ doesn’t exist.
Stop conflating torture with mental health practice.
CassieMaddox · 02/07/2024 12:57
Conversion therapy is abuse.
She was a trustee for the church while this was going on so responsible for safeguarding.
She clearly failed in that responsibility. I'm not saying she was abusive herself but she certainly was part of a culture where abuse was allowed to happen.
Thelnebriati · 02/07/2024 11:50
Are you saying Miriam Cates is responsible for historic abuse?
Do you have evidence she is a safeguarding risk?
'guilt by association' is a logical fallacy.
OP posts:
CassieMaddox ·
02/07/2024 15:39
ScrollingLeaves · 02/07/2024 15:29
It seems your thread is only about churches
who pray over gay men then. It is worth remembering though that if they attend a church like that, they probably asked to be prayed for; (though it would be very bad if parents made possibly gay children be prayed over imo).
I am not sure how widespread trying to pray away gay is as a form of conversion is, but I think that, clearly, transing gay away has become more and more widespread.
I wonder who has more power in converting gay and lesbian young people, God or Mermaids?
It is a relevant question because Miriam Cate’s apparent connection to the church’s version of conversion therapy was only brought up by tras because of her fighting against Mermaid’s version of it.
CassieMaddox · 02/07/2024 15:11
Just because I'm anti homosexual conversion therapy doesn't mean I'm pro mermaids. Honestly. You can be anti both things.
This is nothing to do with trans issues. Its to do with regressive, harmful, anti gay practices in a church, and the lack of appropriate safeguarding.
ScrollingLeaves · 02/07/2024 14:41
@CassieMaddox · Today 13:43
"Conversion therapy" is an accepted term for a load of practices aiming to change someone's sexuality. It's nothing to do with "mental health practice". Why would you want to take away the words to talk about how gay people are abused?
You are seeing things the wrong way round imo.
If you want to see how a gay young person might be abused, by a ‘ban’ on conversion therapy, read this by a gay man and a lawyer, Denis Kavanagh, of the Gay Men’s Network, who writes very clearly and eloquently about it.
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/6200252604e9795287de2ada/t/6671b5cc373b6025fffcbbec/1718728141412/GMN+Labour+Party+Manifesto+Response+2024+Branded+V2.pdf
Miriam Cates brought up the harm Mermaids was causing young people during PMQs in 2022. Did you know the founder of Mermaids had a possibly gay son whose feminine tastes repelled his father? They took him to be castrated abroad when he was sixteen. ( MC did not bring this personal story up however - just the harm of binders, puberty blockers, and the pathway to surgeries and some other points see clip posted previously .)
No praying could have ever been more designed to ‘convert’ than what happened to that boy, or others like him, nor any prayers competed and won against those parents in a harm-done competition.
This MC story was originally brought out by tras in 2022 because she dared to bring Mermaids into public scrutiny during PMQs.
OP posts:
CassieMaddox ·
02/07/2024 15:42
UtilitarianNameChange · 02/07/2024 15:15
You are the one doing the conflating!
Religion/religious practice is not and has never been ‘therapy’.
OP posts:
CassieMaddox ·
02/07/2024 16:26
KeirSpoutsTwaddle · 02/07/2024 16:22
This doesn’t seem like a good faith conversation.
Or is this just the typical left wing convolution point scoring way of ‘discussing’?
It feels as though you aren’t interested in anything except a witch trial for Miriam Cates.
I’m not active in political circles. I do find it an odd way to have a conversation. I know some labour councillors and it’s like they have a handy phrase book of gotchas to drop into every conversation.
The conservative ones I know don’t tend to do that. I mean, they have other flaws, but not that one.
OP posts:
CassieMaddox ·
02/07/2024 17:21
ScrollingLeaves · 02/07/2024 16:53
Your thread is about a church in which a young man with an extreme Christian upbringing underwent prayers or a ritual at a church, against his being gay, which he described both as ‘an intense prayer team meeting’ and then, an exorcism, though the church denied that it was an exorcism.
He was a young adult at the time, a youth leader in the church. He was not forced into this prayer session or exorcism except by his own beliefs that it was wrong to be gay, which he had been brought up in by his own family who were part of an ‘extreme Christian cult’. Mistaken though many people would think those beliefs are some people hold them.
After what he went through, he felt empty at first but then concluded he could be gay and still hold on to his faith, though this church did not want him in his role there because he was in a gay relationship.
There are Christian Churches where the leaders believe it is against the teachings of the Bible to be gay.
This happened two years before Miriam Cates was there so there is no point in suggesting her safeguarding of this man fell short.
As to any implication she believes in converting gay people through prayer, either because she attended this church or was a trustee there two years after what this man described happening to him, there isn’t any evidence one way or another.
There is evidence though that she is against making young gay people believe that being gay means they are really trans and should undergo harmful practices in order to change.
OP posts:
CassieMaddox ·
02/07/2024 17:23
Imnobody4 · 02/07/2024 16:56
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-bbcs-miriam-cates-hit-job-doesnt-add-up/
The BBC should put its own house in order. This is a blatant smear job. It deserves nothing but contempt. And please don't try to draw any conclusions on my view of conversion therapy or on Miriam Cates. I see the report was leaked to the BBC. Good job the Wpath files weren't leaked to them, they wouldn't have seen the light of day. Funny still no reporting on that.
OP posts:
borntobequiet ·
02/07/2024 17:39
CassieMaddox ·
02/07/2024 18:07
Imnobody4 · 02/07/2024 18:00
His complaint, which Miriam Cates said she was never made aware of, was not formally submitted until November 2019 after she had left the church.
What straws? The BBC is no longer an unbiased news source. It covers this but not Wpath which is a far bigger and more horrifying news story about a medical scandal. You're dead right the BBC have challenged my values by completely abandoning journalistic ethics and impartiality.
Not one article on Wpath, not one. Perhaps you need to remove those blinkers.
This is very black and white
I don't discount a whole news provider just because they aren't reporting on what I've decided they should. But you do you.
OP posts:
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