Page 2 | Miriam Cates

LaundryOnTheLine · 02/07/2024 09:10

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines - previously banned poster.

Sloejelly · 02/07/2024 09:10

CassieMaddox · 02/07/2024 09:09

Derail. This thread is about Miriam Cates and conversion therapy. If you want to start another I'll comment.

Show quote history

So that is a ‘no’ then?

Report

PeppercornMill · 02/07/2024 09:13

nauticant · 02/07/2024 08:35

Miriam Cates is very likely to lose on Thursday so I think this is more about the narrative that the evil Tories, who we are now finally free of, supported the widespread scourge of conversion therapy, and we should welcome a Labour government in banning it. (Whatever "it" ends up being in law and practice.)

Banning therapists from asking why a gay child wants to change sex is essentially transing the gay away.

Why do you support the conversion therapy of gay youth?

Report

KeirSpoutsTwaddle · 02/07/2024 09:20

Church conferences can have multiple sessions running concurrently. You can be in a discussion about women in leadership in one room, while next door there’s a session about supporting people with same sex attraction.

You would have no way of knowing whether the latter ‘support’ session involved prayer that people are released from their feelings of guilt and distress- meaning praying their sexuality changes- or whether the prayer is about helping people feel more at ease with their sexuality as it is.
In that room there will be people praying in hope that it’s just a phase, experimentation, and that their child will find an easier path, as well as people thinking- and possibly saying- old fashioned homophobic fire and brimstone stuff.

And if you are next door, you won’t know until later.

People who have religious faith and are same sex attraction have every right to seek support, networking, discussion opportunities about how faith fits with their sexuality. You mustn’t use ‘conversion therapy’ as an excuse to shut down those conversations.

Report

Beowulfa · 02/07/2024 09:25

I was expecting to read of some rather stronger evidence than this.

Contributors told the report authors that while gay members of the church would be welcomed, there was a “firm belief” that these individuals would “eventually understand the need to be transformed to live in accordance with biblical revelation and orthodox church teachings”.

Isn't this quite standard for many traditional Christians? Including religious immigrants to Britain (ie Catholic Poles and West Africans), the kind of demographic that Labour assumes it owns?

I'm an atheist so find religion puzzling generally, but isn't all prayer a sort of conversion therapy?

Report

KeirSpoutsTwaddle · 02/07/2024 09:25

“This ‘conversation therapy’ thing in the UK has about as much credibility as ‘period poverty’. It’s just an entryist’s tool.”

We have to be a bit careful with this one. There will be sub cultures that abuse children under the guise of expelling demons. Victoria Climbier for example. We mustn’t say ‘it never happens’ because there will be some extreme sects and cultures that will be abusive.

We can’t say it never happens, in the same way we don’t say ‘there is no slavery here’.

Safeguarding spectacularly fails when we think we are above reproach. I am well aware of the massive work on safeguarding underway throughout the CofE yet abusive bastards still manage to groom people into blindness.

Report

KeirSpoutsTwaddle · 02/07/2024 09:33

Beowulfa · 02/07/2024 09:25

I was expecting to read of some rather stronger evidence than this.

Contributors told the report authors that while gay members of the church would be welcomed, there was a “firm belief” that these individuals would “eventually understand the need to be transformed to live in accordance with biblical revelation and orthodox church teachings”.

Isn't this quite standard for many traditional Christians? Including religious immigrants to Britain (ie Catholic Poles and West Africans), the kind of demographic that Labour assumes it owns?

I'm an atheist so find religion puzzling generally, but isn't all prayer a sort of conversion therapy?

I’d say that’s a fair point. Faith generally involves an attempt to ‘live better’- continuous conversion into a more spiritual, more discerning person.

What ‘better’ looks like will vary.

Mature religions don’t try and change other people, we try and change ourselves. That’s my impression anyway.

I work with religious people who have a range of views from total acceptance of same sex relationships in every possible way, to preferring same sex attracted people to be celibate, to full reproductive freedom for women, to protection of the unborn child. There are some hangers on who haven’t got over women priests in the CofE.

The ones I don’t agree with aren’t nasty people.

Report

LaundryOnTheLine · 02/07/2024 09:41

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines - previously banned poster.

borntobequiet · 02/07/2024 09:45

Just listened to the headlines on Today on catch-up. It was very prominent. The BBC is probably positioning this as pushback against Jane and all the other unfavourable coverage of Labour’s policies.
It’s all they’ve got.

Report

LaundryOnTheLine · 02/07/2024 10:19

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines - previously banned poster.

ResisterOfTwaddleRex · 02/07/2024 10:23

thirdfiddle · 02/07/2024 01:02

Timing of this story is /highly/ suspect. Which makes me think the story is probably suspect too. Throw mud at a politician days before an election. If it was going to stick, they'd not have waited till this week.

This.

Report

CassieMaddox · 02/07/2024 10:32

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines - previously banned poster.

Abortion rights would definitely be under thread under another Conservative government.
https://righttolife.org.uk/news/general-election-2024-pro-life-mps-battling-to-keep-their-seats

Caroline Ansell was using the "decriminalise abortion" Bill as an opportunity to propose a lower time limit. Miriam Cates was insisting on a return to face to face appointments for abortion pills, despite knowing the state of the NHS waiting lists. Liam Fox was championing Heidi Crowters case regarding Downs syndrome and wanting to ban late terminations on that basis (which would affect a lot of women needing TFMR).

Look what happened in the US when people became complacent about abortion.

General Election 2024 - Pro-life MPs battling to keep their seats

Pro-life MPs in danger of losing their seats

The outlook on the debate concerning beginning and end-of-life issues could radically change in the next Parliament as a number of prominent pro-life MPs,

https://righttolife.org.uk/news/general-election-2024-pro-life-mps-battling-to-keep-their-seats

OP posts:

Report

CassieMaddox · 02/07/2024 10:33

Sloejelly · 02/07/2024 09:10

So that is a ‘no’ then?

Show quote history

It's a "start another thread and we can discuss it". I am not derailing this one.

OP posts:

Report

CassieMaddox · 02/07/2024 10:34

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines - previously banned poster.

Alternatively it could be that they are reporting the news 😂

OP posts:

Report

CassieMaddox · 02/07/2024 10:41

KeirSpoutsTwaddle · 02/07/2024 09:25

“This ‘conversation therapy’ thing in the UK has about as much credibility as ‘period poverty’. It’s just an entryist’s tool.”

We have to be a bit careful with this one. There will be sub cultures that abuse children under the guise of expelling demons. Victoria Climbier for example. We mustn’t say ‘it never happens’ because there will be some extreme sects and cultures that will be abusive.

We can’t say it never happens, in the same way we don’t say ‘there is no slavery here’.

Safeguarding spectacularly fails when we think we are above reproach. I am well aware of the massive work on safeguarding underway throughout the CofE yet abusive bastards still manage to groom people into blindness.

"Expelling demons" seems to be exactly what was being practiced at this church.

I personally don't think "extreme social pressure" on someone not to be gay is OK either. Surprised by some of the comments here about how this is "tenuous" and not of interest.

OP posts:

Report

GrammarTeacher · 02/07/2024 10:44

I'm not surprised, I've tried to raise Cates and her dangerous attitude to abortion on here before but apparently she can do no wrong.

Report

GrammarTeacher · 02/07/2024 10:44

She's also not really GC. She's a strong believer in traditional gender roles (just not for her - she can do what she wants).

Report

User2460177 · 02/07/2024 10:46

Miriam cates is great. She has made it clear why she supports a conversion ban and that she doesn’t support gay conversion therapy in any form.

This is just more biased nonsense from the BBC. They would never report this in the case of a Muslim MP who had been a trustee of a mosque with dodgy associations. They are no longer fit for purpose

Report

Imnobody4 · 02/07/2024 10:47

CassieMaddox · 02/07/2024 10:33

It's a "start another thread and we can discuss it". I am not derailing this one.

Show quote history

Oh the irony.

Report

User2460177 · 02/07/2024 10:47

CassieMaddox · 02/07/2024 10:34

Alternatively it could be that they are reporting the news 😂

Show quote history

The bbc don’t report the news. Or at least they are extremely selective about what they report and how.

Report

BackToLurk · 02/07/2024 10:56

CassieMaddox · 02/07/2024 10:32

Abortion rights would definitely be under thread under another Conservative government.
https://righttolife.org.uk/news/general-election-2024-pro-life-mps-battling-to-keep-their-seats

Caroline Ansell was using the "decriminalise abortion" Bill as an opportunity to propose a lower time limit. Miriam Cates was insisting on a return to face to face appointments for abortion pills, despite knowing the state of the NHS waiting lists. Liam Fox was championing Heidi Crowters case regarding Downs syndrome and wanting to ban late terminations on that basis (which would affect a lot of women needing TFMR).

Look what happened in the US when people became complacent about abortion.

Show quote history

Yes, they 're in danger of losing their seats because they're Tories. The Labour 'pro-life' MPs aren't

Report

BackToLurk · 02/07/2024 10:59

thirdfiddle · 02/07/2024 01:02

Timing of this story is /highly/ suspect. Which makes me think the story is probably suspect too. Throw mud at a politician days before an election. If it was going to stick, they'd not have waited till this week.

The timing is now because the official report has just been published. The original story was broken by a local Sheffield website 2 years ago.

Report

LaundryOnTheLine · 02/07/2024 11:02

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines - previously banned poster.

PeppercornMill · 02/07/2024 11:02

14 years of a Tory government, no threat to abortion, but another 5 years and abortion would be under threat...

Clutching at straws there.

Report

CassieMaddox · 02/07/2024 11:38

BackToLurk · 02/07/2024 10:56

Yes, they 're in danger of losing their seats because they're Tories. The Labour 'pro-life' MPs aren't

Show quote history

There are very few of them compared to the Conservatives and I don't believe any of them are high profile in the party. I think only 2 Labour out of 30ish supported the time limit reduction motion.

The Conservatives are much more of a threat on this.

OP posts:

Report

Talk

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Miriam Cates