Just listened to the latest episode of Rob Brydon’s podcast where he interviews his long-term friend Ruth Jones.
I thought this exchange at the start was interesting - they know.
Ruth: “It's a lovely intro. Very, very nice. It always makes me interested when people describe me as an actor, because I think of myself as an actress.
Rob: I am being very politically correct.
Ruth: You are, but I always correct people's political correctness when it comes to describing me as an actress.
Rob: I'd rather say actress. I would naturally say actress.
Ruth: Thank you. And it's funny because sometimes I've been introduced or I've read an introduction to something I've been doing and they've called me an actor. I said, oh no, I'm an actress.
And they go, well, no, it's our policy to call you an actor. I go, I know, but I identify as an actress.
Rob: Once you decide to identify, won't be tied anybody who gets, I identify as five foot 10.
Why is that funny? That's what I'm identifying as. How tall am I, Ruth?
Ruth: Oh, maybe you are five foot 10. Are you?
Rob: No, I'm five foot seven. Maybe five foot six and a half now. But I'm identifying as five foot 10.
So I'll ask you again, how tall am I?
Ruth: You're five foot 10.
Rob: Thank you. We're too old for all this, aren't we?
Ruth: Oh, I don't understand it. Anyway, you can't even talk about not understanding anything, can you? You just have to go, I'm old.
I can't hear very well now. So just leave me out of the conversation. Thank you.”
From Brydon &: Ruth Jones, 13 Jun 2024
https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/brydon/id1687943454?i=1000658813656
This material may be protected by copyright.
Rob Bryson & Ruth Jones
CaveMum · 14/06/2024 13:26
Brydon &: Ruth Jones on Apple Podcasts
Show Brydon &, Ep Ruth Jones - 12 Jun 2024
https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/brydon/id1687943454?i=1000658813656
Show more
CarterBeatsTheDevil · 14/06/2024 19:18
There still is a valid reason for it. I know a couple of female head teachers who did not like men being suggestive about "mistresses" when they found out what they did for a living and are very glad to have a job title that focuses on the job and not the sex of the holder.
Meadowwild · 14/06/2024 16:38
There was a valid reason for this when it all started. I used to be an actress and you wouldn't believe how many tossers at parties thought that was code for 'I am morally vacant. I have no brain. You may however shag me.' If I introduced myself as an actor they'd hesitate and say 'actor?' and I'd say, 'Yes, mainly Shakespeare' and it just put the brakes on their automatic sexism.
Same with chairwomen - so many snide comments in 1980s 'Women can't cvhair meetings. What if she has her period' etc etc. Say Chair or chair person, and no one has a female to ridicule.
Maybe we have come so far that we can return to specifying the sex. But I won't hold my ladybreath.
marciaa · 14/06/2024 13:31
I think this was the start of all this insidious stuff. Making everyone "actors" "headteachers" "chair person". I've stopped all that and correctly sex the job :)
Yeah, I fucking HATE female actors being called ACTORS. Drives me batshit. THEY ARE ACTRESSES!!!!!!!!!!!
Like The Green Party and their revolting MEN and NON-MEN. Funny how they don't say WOMEN and NON-WOMEN! 
AllProperTeaIsTheft · 15/06/2024 22:50
I think the problem is acter and actor are pronounced the same.
Acter isn't a word.
OnTheRightSideOfGeography · 15/06/2024 22:41
Yes, very good point.
Would they call a man in that job a 'patron'? Or just never hire/attract any in the first place?!
HidingBehindTheWallpaper · 15/06/2024 22:38
And Matron brings to mind a woman.
EditedOnTheRightSideOfGeography · 15/06/2024 22:25
Another one that springs to mind is 'sister' - as in a nurse on a hospital ward. Originally seen as a purely female occupation, but once men started to join it, they were not called, as you would logically expect, 'brothers', but 'charge nurses'.
Actually, the word nurse itself is one where, until not all that many years ago, a female nurse would be a 'nurse' and a male nurse would be a 'male nurse'.
IrresponsiblyCertainAboutSexualDimorphism · 16/06/2024 08:00
This thread has blown my mind.
Are people saying that the suffix -or relates to men and should be replaced with or followed by -ress if a woman is doing the role? But the suffix -er is somehow sex neutral?
What is the evidence for this?
Should the names of all professions have a female version? If not, why not? Would it be just those where the sex of the professional was relevant to the role?
IrresponsiblyCertainAboutSexualDimorphism · 16/06/2024 07:48
Nurses were always women. Men could not be nurses. Surely you know this?
OnTheRightSideOfGeography · 15/06/2024 22:41
Yes, very good point.
Would they call a man in that job a 'patron'? Or just never hire/attract any in the first place?!
HidingBehindTheWallpaper · 15/06/2024 22:38
And Matron brings to mind a woman.
EditedOnTheRightSideOfGeography · 15/06/2024 22:25
Another one that springs to mind is 'sister' - as in a nurse on a hospital ward. Originally seen as a purely female occupation, but once men started to join it, they were not called, as you would logically expect, 'brothers', but 'charge nurses'.
Actually, the word nurse itself is one where, until not all that many years ago, a female nurse would be a 'nurse' and a male nurse would be a 'male nurse'.
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borntobequiet · 16/06/2024 11:20
If “actor” is male, then presumably “doctor” is also male, and we should be referring to doctresses?
Doctor is a title, not a job description.
borntobequiet · 16/06/2024 11:20
If “actor” is male, then presumably “doctor” is also male, and we should be referring to doctresses?
Doctor is a title, not a job description.
OnTheRightSideOfGeography · 16/06/2024 11:25
No, of course not back then; but I mean nowadays.
Various politicians have spoken about 'bringing back matrons' - should that ever happen, I can't see them making it a strictly single-sex job opening.
IrresponsiblyCertainAboutSexualDimorphism · 16/06/2024 07:48
Nurses were always women. Men could not be nurses. Surely you know this?
OnTheRightSideOfGeography · 15/06/2024 22:41
Yes, very good point.
Would they call a man in that job a 'patron'? Or just never hire/attract any in the first place?!
HidingBehindTheWallpaper · 15/06/2024 22:38
And Matron brings to mind a woman.
EditedOnTheRightSideOfGeography · 15/06/2024 22:25
Another one that springs to mind is 'sister' - as in a nurse on a hospital ward. Originally seen as a purely female occupation, but once men started to join it, they were not called, as you would logically expect, 'brothers', but 'charge nurses'.
Actually, the word nurse itself is one where, until not all that many years ago, a female nurse would be a 'nurse' and a male nurse would be a 'male nurse'.
OnTheRightSideOfGeography · 16/06/2024 11:40
I remember 'waitron' being pushed as a neutral term for waiter/waitress a number of years ago, but it never gained any purchase.
I'm surprised they haven't tried to do the same with 'actron'. Mind, it probably doesn't help that the 'tron' bit at the end makes most people instinctively think of a robot, and not a human at all - of either sex.
IrresponsiblyCertainAboutSexualDimorphism · 16/06/2024 11:39
Various politicians have no clue about the NHS - we have had matrons for many years. They are called matrons. Men and women can be matrons. It’s a bit of a weird linguistic twist, but I quite like it.
OnTheRightSideOfGeography · 16/06/2024 11:25
No, of course not back then; but I mean nowadays.
Various politicians have spoken about 'bringing back matrons' - should that ever happen, I can't see them making it a strictly single-sex job opening.
IrresponsiblyCertainAboutSexualDimorphism · 16/06/2024 07:48
Nurses were always women. Men could not be nurses. Surely you know this?
OnTheRightSideOfGeography · 15/06/2024 22:41
Yes, very good point.
Would they call a man in that job a 'patron'? Or just never hire/attract any in the first place?!
HidingBehindTheWallpaper · 15/06/2024 22:38
And Matron brings to mind a woman.
EditedOnTheRightSideOfGeography · 15/06/2024 22:25
Another one that springs to mind is 'sister' - as in a nurse on a hospital ward. Originally seen as a purely female occupation, but once men started to join it, they were not called, as you would logically expect, 'brothers', but 'charge nurses'.
Actually, the word nurse itself is one where, until not all that many years ago, a female nurse would be a 'nurse' and a male nurse would be a 'male nurse'.
AllProperTeaIsTheft · 16/06/2024 11:11
Neither was chairperson until they decided it was less sexist than chairman. As I said, when I heard the word being used for women initially I assumed it was a new gender neutral word to replace actor and actress and simply meant one who acts, similar to farmer which means a person who farms.
But what makes you think that 'acter' is any more gender-neutral than 'actor'? I'm a linguist and, like @IrresponsiblyCertainAboutSexualDimorphism , I am baffled by some of the linguistic conclusions to which people are jumping.
From my OED: actor: 1. a person whose profession is acting 2: a participant in an action or process
No mention of maleness. Do you think that a solicitor must be male just because the word ends in -or?
FancyBiscuitsLevel · 14/06/2024 13:44
sex neutral titles like headteacher are better for women, it doesn’t presume it’s a man’s role. Actor was the male title, so it would be more like using headmaster for both male and female heads, and saying “oh the title is unisex now”.
i suppose “acting professional” could be unisex, is their a unisex title that isn’t something that used to be the male one?
(they never decide we are using one title now and default to the female one, so they?)
IrresponsiblyCertainAboutSexualDimorphism · 16/06/2024 11:44
In the USA they use the term “server” as in “My name is Alice and I’ll be your server today”.
OnTheRightSideOfGeography · 16/06/2024 11:40
I remember 'waitron' being pushed as a neutral term for waiter/waitress a number of years ago, but it never gained any purchase.
I'm surprised they haven't tried to do the same with 'actron'. Mind, it probably doesn't help that the 'tron' bit at the end makes most people instinctively think of a robot, and not a human at all - of either sex.
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quantumbutterfly · 16/06/2024 11:46
Thespian is gender neutral, (if a little pretentious and apparently also easily confused with lesbian-which is not a gender neutral term despite the efforts of some people).
FancyBiscuitsLevel · 14/06/2024 13:44
sex neutral titles like headteacher are better for women, it doesn’t presume it’s a man’s role. Actor was the male title, so it would be more like using headmaster for both male and female heads, and saying “oh the title is unisex now”.
i suppose “acting professional” could be unisex, is their a unisex title that isn’t something that used to be the male one?
(they never decide we are using one title now and default to the female one, so they?)
TheMarzipanDildo · 16/06/2024 11:49
On the telly quiz they do on Rylan’s Saturday show on radio 2 they either say “actor” (for male actors) or “female actor” (for female actors). Either just say actor for both or say actor and actress fgs.
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