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vipergts2207

Suspended
Apr 7, 2009
4,414
9,885
Columbus, OH
That still doesn’t mean that apple doesn’t abide by the laws in the locale it operates from. You just brought us full circle back to that basic premise.
You know what, rather than mock (or try to further reason, which would clearly be an exercise in abject futility) I’ll simply let your statement here stand as a testament to your entirely nonsensical logic that truly seems to have no limits on its extraordinary ability to contradict not only itself, but reality as well.
 

AppliedMicro

macrumors 68020
Aug 17, 2008
2,391
3,191
2 billion to apple is pocket change
At about 10% of worldwide quarterly earnings, I tend to disagree.
It appear to be news to you that a company could be found for a violation even when following all local laws.
It could be.
It could just as well operate in violation of laws - without being found guilty or being penalised for it.
Going back to my original point, apple operates within the law where it does business
Apple follows the laws of the locale they do business in.
Given your own logic that this is unverifiable - cause there’s no objective way of telling if they did abide by the law or not (such as going by the fact that they’ve legally been found „guilty“ or not), these statements are hollow. Nothing more than one random person‘s opinion on the internet that is contradicted by actual legal rulings against Apple that have found them in violation of laws.

There is, of course, nothing wrong with having an opinion of your own on the internet. It just gets tiresome when it’s repeatedly presented as a factual claim - but upon being challenged, its poster feels the need to resort to a „can‘t be (dis)proven anyway“ defense. Rather than constructively arguing the point.
 
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Nuno Lopes

macrumors 65816
Sep 6, 2011
1,279
1,181
Lisbon, Portugal
It is always difficult to reason with ideologues. But is feasible and interesting things can come out of it.

Yet is impossible in extreme cases, easily identifiable with the frequent use of creative orthography.

Stay away when that happens. It's a total waste of your time.

Apple was charged several times for breaking laws … irregularities if you will. Some cases were proven, resolving in fines and other measures. Others were dropped due to lack of proof or downright found baseless. Some cases the appeal was granted others did not.

Apple is not a criminal, company, it does not commit crimes as per the definition of the law. Now it was found to operate in some instances illegally ... otherwise it would not have lost those cases.

Apple was charged and found guilty of the aforementioned charges in court. Apple is now appealing the decision, or maybe is just trying to reduce the fines. That is the way of Democracy. Half a billion is not a parking ticket, it's a pretty heavy fine ... maybe it can be lowered ... who knows. But meanwhile the company was found guilty of those charges.

Given the succession of similar cases world wide, I think is a reasonable to conclude that Apple practice is in legal trouble and needs to be changed ... and it is indeed changing. To the dismay of some and not fast enough for others.

Several times on these thread people talked about Apple using their properties as it pleases. I have said that, at least in a Democracy, that right is up to the point it interfaces with other properties as defined by law. In terms of property rights, Apple policies implemented in iOS does indeed exposes new challenges. It is indeed true that such practices are not new, yet what is relatively new is dimension of the population under those practices and how they are combined. Once someone buys a device, the dichotomy between Apple owning iOS and the person owning the device over which it operates is indeed a conundrum exposed by Apple governance. One cannot say it owns a house or apartment if the entity that owns absolute power over the land is another. Yet this is exactly what happens with the iPhone and iPads. People own these devices (the home) yet iOS and the house policies are owned by Apple (the landlord). Those are the rules that Apple has set.

Yet It's not at all clear that such deal is indeed understood by the citizens that buy these devices neither that it is understood that is exactly the deal here. The same goes for software developers as they may not understand that they do not own the software they have built for comercial purposes for the most part, landlord has the last saying and crucial saying. This confusion is especially evident considering prior art that people were most used to in the realm of PCs. So its not at all surprising probably most users in the EU, if the DMA was explained to them and its purpose, would probably agree with it, not just for iOS and Apple but for all vendors and products of the kind.

Are these new property relationship defining practices at scale that DMA regulates. Nothing more, nothing less. It defines the operational boundaries of “landlord” properties as well has device owners and third suppliers.

Anyway, In a Democracy we don't need to all agree with every court decision. We all can have our opinions. But we do need to agree that court decisions are to be complied regardless of likes or how people vote with their wallet. This is not Facebook, Instagram or other forms of popularity contest. In Democracy, following the courts decisions is not a matter of opinion. They exist to resolve disputes under the laws created by the republic, senate or parliament elected by the citizens. Even them are not above court decisions.

One may of course have the opinion that just the court decisions that he or she likes are to be complied ... but in that case it's promoting a different political and societal system. Humanity has plenty of experience with those too. These were for the most part really bad for the people, even for the so called rich. Delayed innovation, increased poverty, liberties were taken for the few … Wanna get there? I can feel some winds being blown in that direction in the US, Europe, South America (well the later were always close to).

The systems where way less laws and regulations exist are usually ditactotorial in stance. Wins who amasses the most power to decide, with no appeal. Power driven by god, military, money or simply family. Forget innovation or self merit, it’s meaningless in those systems. Apple would never exist in such a system.
 
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