Antitrust Lawsuit Threatens Apple's Lucrative Deal with Google

[dwaite]

This is completely a financial decision by both companies. It takes Apple nothing to put a splash screen and make you choose, but they won’t do it.

It takes adding another mandatory screen users have to read and make a decision on as part of the initial product experience. Yes, Apple has a lot of screens during setup, but they try to hide as many as possible behind defaults on express setup and behind migration flows. And regulatory decisions often effectively mandate really crappy UI

 

[dwaite]

The 99% is probably not right

How do we know?
The mere fact they won't present the choice

Personally, I'd love to have a native Kagi integration, as that's what I use

Its Google, not Apple, who could be decided against.

Apple would just take Bing's "second place" bid as the new default, or put a selection screen between every search engine willing to do a 30% share across all revenue sources.

I wish Apple would buy Duck Duck Go and just make it a good search engine. Only search. And a YouTube alternative too.

Apple is likely too big as an international company to be allowed into a new vertical like that - the possibility of crowding out existing search product companies by setting a new default on all iOS devices and Macs would be too great.

 

[ProbablyDylan]

I simply said it is probably less an apple thing and more a kagi thing being paid and not exactly a major player as to why it is not supported by apple.

They're search engines. The only major players are Google and Bing. It's not that serious.

And, like I said, every other browser maker on the planet has figured out custom search engines. It's not like I want Tim to have to manually add every search engine that exists.

 

[jwdsail]

Apple's deal with Google that makes it the default engine on Safari faces uncertainty as the U.S. Department of Justice's antitrust lawsuit looms, The Information reports.

Apple's contract with Google, which ensures that Google's search engine is the default on Apple's Safari browser, has been a significant source of revenue. In 2022, the arrangement reportedly netted Apple over $20 billion, an amount derived from 36 percent of the ad revenue generated by searches on Safari, as revealed in court documents.

The agreement has substantial financial implications for both companies. For Apple, the payments from Google constitute an important revenue stream as a significant proportion of its profits. If the court rules against Google, it could lose access to approximately 70 percent of iPhone searches. This would significantly impact Google's mobile search advertising revenue, which was a major contributor to its $207 billion in search ad revenue in 2023.

Google has been working to reduce its reliance on the deal. The company has been actively encouraging iPhone users to switch from Safari to its own apps, Google and Chrome. Google has invested heavily in enhancing its mobile apps with features such as the Lens image search function and the Discover feed, which surfaces personalized content. In 2022 and 2023, Google launched extensive TV and online advertising campaigns showcasing exclusive features available only on its apps. However, over the past five years, Google has only managed to increase the percentage of iPhone searches conducted through its apps from 25 percent to the low 30s.

Earlier this year, Google hired Robby Stein, a former Instagram and Yahoo executive, to spearhead efforts to increase the adoption of its apps among iPhone users. Stein's strategies include exploring the integration of generative AI to enhance the appeal of Google's mobile apps. The company now wants to double the number of Google searches performed outside Safari, even as the number accomplished in the Google and Chrome apps stalled last year.

The shift is particularly important to Google in an effort to mitigate the impact of the potential outcome of the U.S. Department of Justice's antitrust lawsuit. A ruling against Google would also set a precedent for how Apple's default settings and competitive practices are regulated.

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Article Link: Antitrust Lawsuit Threatens Apple's Lucrative Deal with Google

With all the sky high food prices due to the massive consolidation in the food industry, I'm sure glad that the FTC is focusing on what's really important /s

 

[scorpio vega]

They're search engines. The only major players are Google and Bing. It's not that serious.

And, like I said, every other browser maker on the planet has figured out custom search engines. It's not like I want Tim to have to manually add every search engine that exists.

Yet you’re mad Tim doesn’t allow to add kagi.

Google. Bing. DuckDuckGo. Yandex. Yahoo. Baidu. Most of which are offered.

 

[ProbablyDylan]

Yet you’re mad Tim doesn’t allow to add kagi.

Google. Bing. DuckDuckGo. Yandex. Yahoo. Baidu. Most of which are offered.

You sure about that? Checking right now on my end, my options are (in order): Google, Yahoo, Bing, DuckDuckGo, Ecosia.

 

[bollman]

For anyone saying it doesn't matter:

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/why-eu-dma-legislation-is-important.2430696/

 

[Amazing Iceman]

You must have been looking up some sketchy things then.

I’ve used bing since my windows phone 7/8 days of 2011 with windows 8/8.1/10 and I’ve never had that experience with bing.

Not me… I don’t use Bing. This is on several clients’ PCs.
And I did check their browsing history and there was nothing else.
I did the same search query on my iPad and found the same Ad, clicked on it and got the same results. That’s how I confirmed it was the search engine pushing those malicious ads.

 

[derekamoss]

I can’t even change spotlight to use bing because it’s forcing me to use google.

My iOS experience is gimped because I try never to use spotlight for quick searches because I refuse to use google.

Being default is fine. Being the only Choice I am being forced to use is not fine.

This is one of the few times I don’t mind the government stepping in to regulate this because google is terrible.


If this was 2015-2017 sure.

Bing is doing just fine for me here in America and I have very little issues using it and I’m not having to worry about shadiness like I do with google.

The only thing Iwill say is google is slightly better at discoverability of new places but bing plus yelp makes that largely minor.

Plus Bing rewards are awesome. Use it for free gift cards all the time.

 

[ifxf]

Honestly, Google has the best search engine hands down. I tried using Duck Duck Go for years for privacy reasons. I would fall back to Google.com when Duck Duck Go (Bing) would fail to produce good results. Eventually i just got tired of so frequently having to use Google.com instead of the Safari address bar for searching and switched back.

Competition is supposed to produce better products but somehow Google has managed to maintain the best search engine while holding a monopoly. I don’t see how giving lazy competitors like Bing a crutch is going to improve competition. Why would Microsoft invest more in Bing if they get a revenue increase by virtue of a ruling against Google?

All search engines are getting worse. Although google is leading the pack when you need to scroll past larger sponsored area and “what people also ask” to get to the actual results.

 

[GrayFlannel]

They're search engines. The only major players are Google and Bing. It's not that serious.

And, like I said, every other browser maker on the planet has figured out custom search engines. It's not like I want Tim to have to manually add every search engine that exists.

The judge’s first step is to decide the market. DOJ defines it as general search services while Google disagrees claiming there are many ways to search for products, services, and information online.

If the judge takes Google’s definition the case is doomed.

Either way this is an interesting case. The government has a good argument but the it’s so complex it’s impossible to guess what is on Mehta’s mind.

 

[JordanCautious]

I'm never going to stop using Safari as my main browser on Mac, iPad, and iPhone. The privacy features are too nice to give up, personally. Honestly, if Apple made their own search engine, I would switch to that in a heartbeat. And if the only way to do that is to kill this deal with Google, I'm surprisingly siding with the DOJ for once

 

[cupcakes2000]

Yet you’re mad Tim doesn’t allow to add kagi.

Google. Bing. DuckDuckGo. Yandex. Yahoo. Baidu. Most of which are offered.

You should be able to add whatever you want to like you can on any and every other browser on or off ios. Its weird that you think otherwise, I mean... why shouldn't you be allowed?!

 

[Carrotcruncher]

There are at least five search engine options built into Apple devices. So what if Google is the default? Does it require too much brain power or physical effort to go into settings and change it if one desires? If the device owner is too clueless to figure it out - or to even ask if it’s possible - then they deserve what they get.

First you cant edit Safari default search to a custom engine such as your own local hosted version of searXNG, Apple has been guilty of antitrust with Google for years. of course I understand most Apple users are incapable of this level of technical capability. 😶

 

[Carrotcruncher]

I'm never going to stop using Safari as my main browser on Mac, iPad, and iPhone. The privacy features are too nice to give up, personally. Honestly, if Apple made their own search engine, I would switch to that in a heartbeat. And if the only way to do that is to kill this deal with Google, I'm surprisingly siding with the DOJ for once

Yes, the best thing about this level of privacy is being force fed a limited amount of search (G😀🙂GLE) engines with no way to change to any Apple dont approve of... happy days !

 

[Carrotcruncher]

You should be able to add whatever you want to like you can on any and every other browser on or off ios. Its weird that you think otherwise, I mean... why shouldn't you be allowed?!

You cant tell em, its called Stockholm syndrome..

 

[Carrotcruncher]

I’m curious. What do you think the best search engine is these days? I normally use Duck Duck Go (Bing search engine) for privacy reasons but often have to switch to Google to get meaningful results.

searXNG self hosted

 

[Carrotcruncher]

If they don’t care then there’s no injury and no problem

You should be Trumps next lawyer

 

[scorpio vega]

Plus Bing rewards are awesome. Use it for free gift cards all the time.

Exactly. Even though Microsoft gimped bing rewards.

 

[scorpio vega]

You should be able to add whatever you want to like you can on any and every other browser on or off ios. Its weird that you think otherwise, I mean... why shouldn't you be allowed?!

I never said you shouldn’t. Again Kagi is a paid search engine. It probably takes more legwork and effort for it to be an option than apple adding any of the free options.

As I’ve said before, y’all are complaining about how apple does thing as if it hasn’t been this way from the start. Just get an android instead of demanding apple literally do the exact opposite of what it has been doing for nearly 2 decades on iOS.

 

[ProbablyDylan]

I never said you shouldn’t. Again Kagi is a paid search engine. It probably takes more legwork and effort for it to be an option than apple adding any of the free options.

It's funny you say that, I was able to set it up as default in Edge and Firefox effortlessly. They saw it was a search engine and just showed it as an available option in their settings. Weird how Apple hasn't figured that out isn't it?

 

[jimimac71]

I use the Chrome browser because Safari isn't an option for Windows or Android. Been using DDG for ages.
Why is everything about the iPhone?
I have an iPad and don't use Safari. Even when I had a Mac, didn't like Safari and feel the same about IE and Edge.
Some don't know how to change the search engine.
I occasionally use Google as a last resort and sometimes Bing to identify a photo.
I use DDG as my home page too.
I use the extensions as well.
Waiting for the DDG browser to improve.

 

[scorpio vega]

It's funny you say that, I was able to set it up as default in Edge and Firefox effortlessly. They saw it was a search engine and just showed it as an available option in their settings. Weird how Apple hasn't figured that out isn't it?

Or weird that you think apple cares about a proprietary search engine? Something that 98 percent of iOS users don’t care about.

And you did this with edge on iOS or desktop? If desktop, then you proved my point.

There’s also a kagi extension so it’s not as if you can’t use it in some medium.

Again get an android.

 

[ProbablyDylan]

Or weird that you think apple cares about a proprietary search engine? Something that 98 percent of iOS users don’t care about.

And you did this with edge on iOS or desktop? If desktop, then you proved my point.

There’s also a kagi extension so it’s not as if you can’t use it in some medium.

Again get an android.

I genuinely have no idea why you're so hostile about me having a preference that I wish Apple better supported. You're happy with Bing, great, love that for you.

It wouldn't be impossible for Apple to please all their customers. Shame there's no incentive for them to make a better product.

 

[scorpio vega]

I genuinely have no idea why you're so hostile about me having a preference that I wish Apple better supported. You're happy with Bing, great, love that for you.

It wouldn't be impossible for Apple to please all their customers. Shame there's no incentive for them to make a better product.

I’m not sure why you think I care about what your preference is to be hostile to you about your preference. If you like it, I love it for you.

It would be impossible for apple to please all their customers because that’s the reality. You can not and never will please everyone. Someone will whine or throw a fit about something.

Apples job is to make their majority happy and they do that. Them adding support for Kagi that no one actually uses is irrelevant.

You’re literally the only person in all the apple centric or even tech centric places I use that I’ve seen complaining about apple not having custom search engines on iOS on a platform that you shouldn’t be shocked isn’t android nor doesn’t have the same level of customization or control as an android.

Stop trying or hoping iOS to be like android and just go full android and then you’ll be happy. Oh wait it doesn’t work with Apple Watch so that’s apples fault too for not making their product work with another software

Lmao