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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Gendering childhood

21 replies

Lucifera · 24/06/2010 15:19

Having spent the weekend getting together with women from my radical feminist past, I realised that I would love to be involved in a campaign to combat the total "gendering" of everything that is produced for children - you know what I mean, blue scooters and pink scooters, pink Pritt Sticks, etc etc. And the bikinis for toddlers, high heels for babies, all that crap. I know about Pink Stinks, does anyone know of other groups or campaigns? Would need to be one that welcomed non-parents. Apologies if this has been done before.

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Mij · 24/06/2010 20:43

Sorry don't know of a dedicated group but count me in if you start one! Drives me absolutely wild. I think it was the pink ELC globe that tipped me over the edge. And I hate that DD1s male friends don't want to use her space hopper because it's pink (not chosen by us, natch).

Are you turned off Pink Stinks? It's suffered a bit from people choosing (mostly) to misunderstand pink as a symbol rather than an absolute.

tabouleh · 24/06/2010 22:42

No I don't know of any others.

ISWYM about "pink stinks" re people saying - but "oh what's wrong with pink/I love pink/DD loves pink". However I think it's a valuable campaign.

This book looks interesting (got pink/blue) in the title though!

I wonder if something can/is being done inspired by the Equality Act 2010.
?

I did a bit of googling and found this section of the UNICEF website.

"UNICEF is committed to levelling the playing field for girls and women by ensuring that all children have equal opportunity to develop their talents. We work to ensure that all babies receive the best start to life through gender-sensitive, integrated early childhood care. We work so that all children are afforded quality education, one that prepares them for a productive life."

I'm not sure if the EYFS (Early Years Foundation Status) says anything much about gender. In the Equality Illusion I think there's a bit about boys and girls in a nursery playing with gender specific toys.

As for the "the bikinis for toddlers, high heels for babies, all that crap" - well there is MN's very own Let Girl's be Girl's campaign!. Also the home office report into the sexualisation of children is worth a read (can't seem to find the link now the home office website has changed).

Lucifera · 25/06/2010 13:39

Hell's bells, I just spent 10 minutes writing a reply to both of you and then when I posted it I got a weird preview screen and it vanished! Hope it doesn't happen again ... thanks for your responses. I'm not exactly turned off Pink Stinks, I should look into it more. I am concerned about issues for boys too, why can't we easily find nice clothes in a range of colours for both sexes that don't proclaim the girls to be princesses and the boys to be terrors? I'm not going to write too much in case I lose it but will come back later if it works. Thanks v much for the links, tabouleh.

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swallowedAfly · 25/06/2010 13:53

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swallowedAfly · 25/06/2010 13:55

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Lucifera · 25/06/2010 14:09

Coo I just looked at Let girls be girls thread - brilliant.

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minimathsmouse · 26/06/2010 21:22

I run maths clubs for kids. We always have more boys than girls. The boys are pretty focused on the maths but the girls are constantly trying to grab your attention to discuss fluffy rabbits and hair bobbles!Its a shame, they are just as capable, but its quite obvious what really motivates them. I usually redirect the hair bobblers and princesses to the other teacher!

I have 2 DS and I spend ages trying to find clothes that haven't got skulls festooned all over them. It could be worse though I could spend twice as much time trying to find girls clothes that aren't pink, frilly and ditsey.

Put simply, I am probably good at maths because of the attitude of my parents to my early childhood experiences. I wasn't life limited by hair bobbles and comments about how pretty I looked!

Mij · 27/06/2010 22:23

minimathsmouse I am that person who spends bloody hours trying to find non-pink, non-frilly, non-sparkly princess fairy fluffy bollocks clothes, although I generally limit myself to secondhand shops and NCT/Community sales because, frankly, the choice is better an as DD1 is only 4 she is totally cool with the idea of pre-owned clothes. Fear that may not last into school

It seems to have worked to some extent, in that DD will be a princess one day and a pirate the next, she does love dresses but is equally happy with a green spotty one as a pink one (and can climb trees in them - no idea how but hey). She's extremely creative with her own 'outfits' (5 socks and a poncho, anyone..?) but try and get her in anything matchy matchy and she'll tell you exactly where to stick your accessories.

ImSoNotTelling · 27/06/2010 22:34

I am just starting to realise how bad all of this is. And realise that it comes from the parents! I had always imagined that most parents felt the same as me, apparently not.

The day before yesterday someone expressed shock that my DD did not own a barbie, and that I should get one soon, as "I didn't want to leave it too late"

And yesterday someone with boys asked "So what does your DD like to play with? I only have boys and so of course I have no idea what girls play with".

DD is TWO FGS...

Allidon · 28/06/2010 08:58

I know what you mean ISNT. I work for a large, well known toy retailer, and it baffles me how many parents buy into boys toys/girls toys. Complaints that we didn't sell pink baby walkers (we do now), people returning learning consoles because "it's got Thomas in it and it's for a girl, girls don't like Thomas", ruling out a neutral, Winnie the Pooh moses basket because of ONE pink flower (in case the baby was a boy), it's unbelievable.

The most recent example was a couple of weeks ago, a little girl of 3 or 4 looking at a drum set, and her mother said to her "not that one, that's the boys' one, if you're going to get one it will be the pink one" and the little girl went "Oh K I'll get the pink one", like she was just resigned to it. It was RED FFS, how does that make it a "boys' one"?

SweetDreamerGirl · 28/06/2010 08:58

ISNT : "someone expressed shock that my DD did not own a barbie, and that I should get one soon, as "I didn't want to leave it too late"

oh my.... Yes hurry up, you don't want to miss the boat on that one! (That's a nice girly boat not a tough manly warship, remember).

SweetDreamerGirl · 28/06/2010 09:03

Allidon, wrote "Winnie the Pooh moses basket because of ONE pink flower (in case the baby was a boy), it's unbelievable."

That reminds me of some football fans I heard about. Their team colours were blue and their rivals' colours were green. The "blue" fans painted the grass in their gardens blue, because they couldn't stand it being green.

sarah293 · 28/06/2010 09:06

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SweetDreamerGirl · 28/06/2010 09:12

Allidon, wrote "It was RED FFS, how does that make it a "boys' one"? "

Crazy. I think red is such a vibrant, joyful, playful colour, ideal for any child.

I wonder if the problem might be to do with links to red lipstick and scarlet women? I hope I'm not "oversexing the pudding" here.

mousymouse · 28/06/2010 09:21

dd is only 6 months and I am quite shocked that there is hardly any gender neutral stuff in the shops. I would be happy with a simple red/yellow/green bright coloured sun hat but all there is either camouflage or cartoon print for boys or frilly pinke purple for girls. same with nearly anything else. doesn*t help that "nanny shopaholic" loves shopping cutesy girly things for dd and masculin stuff for ds.
to be honest I give most of the over-the-top stuff to charities or the bin if too unpractical and sometimes buy neutral stuff online.
quite sad really.

UpSinceCrapOClock · 28/06/2010 11:01

If you do start a campaign, I'd join it.

I agree that it is hard to find gender neutral clothes in the UK. We moved over from Scandinavia last year and although there is a bit of glittery pink girly and monster boy stuff there, there are also a lot of gender neutral clothes. (And you get stuff there like dresses with cars printed all over them - have never seen things like that in the UK, but then to be fair I don't shop very much so maybe I've missed it)

Dd (4) is very much a tomboy and loves dark blue. I cannot count how many times people in the street etc and called her a 'him/he', I'm assuming just because she isn't wearing girly stuff?

(My favourite was in the park once when a school group of 6 or 7 year old girls came and dd just joined in with them. The girls were discussing if dd was a girl or a boy and eventually asked her 'are you a girl or a boy?' and dd just looked at me, rolling her eyes and laughed and then answered them 'I'm not a boy, I'm a girl!' with a real 'ffs' look on her face! I was just relieved she wasn't upset and just laughed it off as she can be quite sensitive sometimes)

Not quite sure what it is like in other countries?

ProfessorLaytonIsMyLoveSlave · 28/06/2010 11:20

The Pink Brain, Blue Brain book linked to above is fascinating; I highly recommend it.

You can buy the (lovely) Scandinavian stuff in the UK but they are very expensive.

Lucifera · 28/06/2010 13:35

@upsincecrap - what really pisses me off is how I'm so used to gender-alert flags on everything that I start to make assumptions myself - like when I couldn't spot a friend's daughter at an event because she had short dark hair and was wearing a navy t-shirt (are little girls still allowed to have short hair? I almost never see it).
@Riven - do you mind that your daughter loves pink and sparkly? Don't know how I'd feel if I had a dd, except that I would really mind not having much choice in shops!

If parents are asked "Is it a boy or a girl?" would a good answer be "Yes"?

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UpSinceCrapOClock · 28/06/2010 15:49

Have seen a bit of the branded Scandi clothes - they are expensive here.

Lucifera - I didn't think about the goalposts slowly shifting in society and therefore automatic assumptions shifting. We've had it before though - dh is half Mexican and especially when dd was a baby, people automatically assumed she was a boy because she didn't have her ears pierced (tis the cultural norm there to pierce them when a baby girl is born).

Actually dd does also have short hair - for a year or two she had a sort of short pixie cut (because she twiddles her hair and we had one or two scary moments where she got her finger caught). Now is more of a very short bob with a fringe (mainly because she hates having anything in her hair to tie it back / keep it out of her eyes). Thinking about it though, girls do seem to mainly have long hair. You do realise I'll be looking at every girl I walk past now to see if they have long or short hair

Loving the answer 'yes' to 'is it a girl or a boy?'

Mij · 29/06/2010 20:26

Riven DD1 does like sparkly pink, but not to the exclusion of all else and her increase in interest in it was very clearly linked to when she started playing at other girls' houses more, who had that type of stuff. It's self-perpetuating. And driven by the marketeers (who would have us believe they're merely responding to demand. Bollocks. Part of my work is marketing. I know how easy it is to create/fuel demand).

I think that's my main complaint. It's not pink, sparkling or camouflage/monster stuff per se, it's the tyranny and ubiquity of it. And it's so limiting to both genders, and very confusing for those who find it harder to define themselves strictly down stereotypical gender lines. The meaning of colour is learned so early, that to have toys, clothes, whatever coded as 'this is for you, this is not for you' so rigorously has got to be bad for everyone.

wastingaway · 29/06/2010 22:04

DS is two and will refer to pink things as 'girls'.
Too much tv.

People always think he's a girl as he has longish hair (just never been cut) and he's very pretty.
And this despite the fact he generally wears grey/brown/black/orange/green.
I barely ever put him in blue.
His 'girly' sunhat is actually navy blue, but it has a gingham lining. That's girly isn't it?

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