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Women's rights general conversations - Thread 8

864 replies

Kucinghitam · 16/04/2024 12:11

Continuation of Thread 7.

There is so much excellent information and so many active discussions on FWR that I wondered if it would be useful to have a thread to sort of "cross-fertilise" between them - airing little thoughts or vignettes that wouldn't themselves merit their own thread, to highlight other posts/threads of particular interest or to point to notable developments on fast-moving threads so that casual observers know where to look.

(For example, "the X thread has meandered onto a fascinating discussion of Y" or "Poster P's amazing analysis on thread Z might have relevance to the scenario in thread W" or "Has anybody noticed this recurring theme that keeps coming up??" or even "Random bloke asked me to smile while I was choosing onions in the supermarket, grr"- that sort of thing).

Women's rights general conversations - Thread 7 | Mumsnet

Continuation of [[https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4861150-womens-rights-general-conversations-thread-6? Thread 6]]. There is so much...

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4936346-womens-rights-general-conversations-thread-7

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NoBinturongsHereMate · 30/04/2024 01:19

Also in the Graun, which manages to find several people who disapprove, and positions the extracts from the proposed guidance in such a way as to suggest that taking account of the needs of all patients on a ward is a bad thing.

www.theguardian.com/society/2024/apr/30/trans-patients-to-be-treated-in-separate-rooms-in-hospital-under-tory-plans

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SqueakyDinosaur · 30/04/2024 08:50

Dr Emma Runswick in that Guardian piece can get in the sea.

Also, anyone who hasn't already found it, I'd like to recommend the Tavistock thread in AMA. The OP is just extraordinarily thoughtful and articulate, and the questions are mostly friendly and courteous.

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INeedAPensieve · 30/04/2024 09:31

Long term lurker here, finally registered a few weeks ago! I want to say thank you for all of these threads, they've been very informative and entertaining. Also the "break it down for me" thread. That really made me get it all, so to speak.

Will check out that AMA about the Tavistock, will be an interesting one. Also @Boiledbeetle I bought Duvet under the darkness on my kindle! Looking forward to reading it 😁

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DameMaud · 30/04/2024 09:40

SqueakyDinosaur · 30/04/2024 08:50

Dr Emma Runswick in that Guardian piece can get in the sea.

Also, anyone who hasn't already found it, I'd like to recommend the Tavistock thread in AMA. The OP is just extraordinarily thoughtful and articulate, and the questions are mostly friendly and courteous.

Do you have a link please Squeaky ?
Had a look and can't find it.

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Boiledbeetle · 30/04/2024 10:05

INeedAPensieve · 30/04/2024 09:31

Long term lurker here, finally registered a few weeks ago! I want to say thank you for all of these threads, they've been very informative and entertaining. Also the "break it down for me" thread. That really made me get it all, so to speak.

Will check out that AMA about the Tavistock, will be an interesting one. Also @Boiledbeetle I bought Duvet under the darkness on my kindle! Looking forward to reading it 😁

Welcome ex lurker now poster!

Hopefully you've bought Under the Duvet of Darkness not Duvet under the darkness! That might be a completely different book!😁

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INeedAPensieve · 30/04/2024 10:17

Boiledbeetle · 30/04/2024 10:05

Welcome ex lurker now poster!

Hopefully you've bought Under the Duvet of Darkness not Duvet under the darkness! That might be a completely different book!😁

Show quote history

Haha yes, the former! 🤣 Although maybe that will be an enjoyable book for a different reason...

Also, to my delight, I had a very frank and refreshing conversation with a friend who I'd not seen in ages yesterday. She brought up Humza's resignation and I just thought bugger it I'll be brave and declared how ridiculous he was for his stance on self id etc etc and she said oh I'm so glad you agree, it's nuts. She went to the same school as him, she's a few years older but even in that crowd (I'm not a private school alumni) they are all mostly eye rolling about it all (according to her).

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DameMaud · 30/04/2024 12:59

SqueakyDinosaur · 30/04/2024 09:59

@DameMaud here you go. OP tends to quote the question, so you can just read those posts.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/feminism/5060728-i-went-to-the-tavistock-as-a-young-person-ama?page=1

Thank you @SqueakyDinosaur !

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duc748 · 30/04/2024 14:27

Catching up on my reading again, came across this (long!) piece in the NS about Hannah Barnes' birth experience, and the broader issues. Enough to make you wonder why women are prepared to go through this ordeal! But what noticeable is that once again, the same old themes come to the foreground: women, just flat out not being listened to, or worse, patronised by HCPs, our poorly resourced hospitals, etc. Noted that Rosie Duffield is on the case on the all-party parliamentary group. I'd have innocently assumed that, since women have been giving birth in hospitals for a long time now, we'd pretty much know all we need to know about the process, and have staff like midwives trained accordingly. Not so, it seems. The push for reducing Caesareans, use of forceps greater than in other countries apparently, and, on the issue of analysing this,

The NHS explains that there are benefits to a vaginal delivery: babies are less likely to experience breathing difficulties and there are hints in the literature that elective Caesareans may result in more instances of asthma and eczema. But we don’t have really good data on how to compare the risks or benefits of different birthing methods. And for each woman it will vary.

Again, in this data-packed world, we hear the complaint, 'we don't have the data'. Why the hell not?

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/health/2024/04/trauma-ward-childbirth

NHS - latest news, comment & analysis - New Statesman

Read the latest news, comment and analysis on the National Health Service (NHS) from the New Statesman.

https://www.newstatesman.com/tag/nhs

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NoBinturongsHereMate · 30/04/2024 19:15

Good article, but a tough read.

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DameMaud · 30/04/2024 19:19

That AMA thread is absolutely riveting. Thank you so much for bringing it to attention @SqueakyDinosaur
Very thought provoking.

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Kucinghitam · 30/04/2024 20:37

DH and teen DDs are in the other room watching the new Quantum Leap. There seems to be an episode in which a male-of-gender is on a girls' sports team. I can hear a lot of angsty crying and tragic music in the male-of-gender scenes. Then another character says how unfair the male's presence is on the girls in the team (unfriendly music plays). There's also something about how the found family is better than the boring blood family. Anyone want to take bets on how this story is going to go?

(DDs are very BeKind and Rainbow glitter, so this episode is going to delight them).

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SqueakyDinosaur · 01/05/2024 09:48

We interrupt this thread to bring you this news;Prof Alice Sullivan has been asked by the Government to head a review of various things following the Cass report. She and her team are asking for examples of research being undermined by poor data segregation (e.g. sex recorded incorrectly leading to inaccurate conclusions) and of organisations giving incorrect or incomplete advice on e.g. who may use single sex spaces. Deadline end June: link here: www.smartsurvey.co.uk/s/55np2k

Call for input: single-sex spaces guidance

Please take a few minutes to take our survey.

https://www.smartsurvey.co.uk/s/55np2k

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PoppySeedBagelRedux · 01/05/2024 18:27

Brilliant news!

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Kucinghitam · 02/05/2024 07:58

Oh, excellent!

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SinnerBoy · 02/05/2024 10:15

Yes, I agree. Is that a breath of wind, threatening the house of cards?

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SqueakyDinosaur · 02/05/2024 11:57

I think it's probably a necessary piece of work, but I do have concerns that it is perfectly reasonable, from the GI side (yes, I am aware of the inherent contradiction in that) to see this as motivated by transphobia. It will dial up the rhetoric on both extremes of the argument.

The problem is, it seems to me, that the GI side are hostile to anything other than a positive view. Both negative and neutral are seen as the enemy, and this leads to a circle-the-wagons mentality.

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PoppySeedBagelRedux · 02/05/2024 22:51

I think they were like that anyway, Squeaky. And we need the evidence. What is the alternative, given all that's happened?

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Winterborne74 · 04/05/2024 14:06

I thought this was an interesting example of how women from all parts of the political spectrum are brought back to earth by the reality of motherhood.

https://unherd.com/2024/05/lauren-southern-the-tradlife-influencer-filled-with-regret/

Lots of example of women of the left becoming disenchanted, this is one from the far right.

Lauren Southern: the tradlife influencer filled with regret

https://unherd.com/2024/05/lauren-southern-the-tradlife-influencer-filled-with-regret/

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Vegemiteandhoneyontoast · 04/05/2024 15:26

Thanks for that, it's a fascinating article.

Interesting how long it can take to realise that 'confusing memes for life principles' really is not the same as 'living in reality' and that there's no way to make it so.

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bignosebignose · 06/05/2024 09:40

Gender-specific toilets to be required in non-residential buildings in England 

New restaurants, offices, schools and hospitals in England will be required to have separate male and female toilets, in a move ministers say will combat growing concerns about “privacy and dignity” in gender-neutral facilities.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/may/06/gender-specific-toilets-to-be-required-in-non-residential-buildings-in-england?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Gender-specific toilets to be required in non-residential buildings in England

Ministers say move will combat growing concerns about ‘privacy and dignity’ in gender-neutral facilities

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/may/06/gender-specific-toilets-to-be-required-in-non-residential-buildings-in-england?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

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BezMills · 06/05/2024 10:36

I'm glad you posted that. You have no idea if they mean gender=sex or gender=gender throughout the entire article. Completely useless journalism.

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Kucinghitam · 06/05/2024 10:41

BezMills · 06/05/2024 10:36

I'm glad you posted that. You have no idea if they mean gender=sex or gender=gender throughout the entire article. Completely useless journalism.

"Language evolves" Grin

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