Tragedy of the clueless

[dmr727]

iCloud is only good for Apple. As long as you don't change ecosystems or have other devices you need to access your data from, it's fine.

Works fine for my Windows boxes too.

 

[Webcat86]

Well, if you're all Apple and plan to stay all Apple for ever, it's a bit simpler. But I would still not want to single handedly rely on TimeMachine for backups. I don't think there's a single ironclad backup solution, you need at least one other unrelated alternative.

These days most of my stuff has a cloud backup too. That’s a mixture of Google Drive and iCloud, so I could definitely benefit from an additional solution too.

 

[Thomas Davie]

I thought the updates looked great. If I want to move windows around I'll use my mac desktop or laptops.

This. But I still want fully resizable, place anywhere windows in Stage Manager, esp when outputted to a big monitor.

Tom

 

[SnowCrocodile]

Works fine for my Windows boxes too.

I wish it did for mine... It takes for ever to sync and doesn't always sync all files. I think it may have something to do with ADP being on. But I don't really use it for file storage anyway, so as long as it syncs photos and passwords I am good.

When I say that iCloud is only good for Apple, I mean it doesn't replace the proper online cloud storage such as Onedrive, Google Drive or Dropbox.

My biggest issues with iCloud as a file storage system (not merely a sync utility) are the lack of file version history, and the way file links work (or rather, don't work). Version history is priceless when you need it, saved me hours of frustration. But then, Apple never promoted iCloud as a proper online file storage service, so I can't fault them. So, its really just Apple's sync service that may be "tapped" into from other systems but isn't really meant and designed for that.

 

[SnowCrocodile]

These days most of my stuff has a cloud backup too. That’s a mixture of Google Drive and iCloud, so I could definitely benefit from an additional solution too.

iCloud is a sync service. Not really a file backup service. It will keep backups of your devices but they are only snapshots in time. If you accidentally delete important data in a file, there's no way to go back later and retrieve it, it will be overwr with latest version.

Your Google Drive should have file version history. I am using OneDrive (can't beat getting access to the entire MS Office and 1TB of storage for $50 per year). But GDrive is propbably equivalent. File versioning helps with fixing "oh *****" but also allows to recover from ransomware attacks.

I use Cryptomator to encrypt my sensitive data. It's cross-platform (Windows, Linux, Mac, Android, iOS), open source, and has been very reliable for me for years. OneDrive also has its own encrypted storage (Vault) for paid accounts, which is pretty good. There may be something similar in GDrive.

You also should maintain at least one, better else three rotating physical storage copies of your important data, preferably in different locations. Cloud storage services are usually very reliable, but they do manage to lose customers' data sometimes.

 

[SnowCrocodile]

Sure, let me ask my parents what they would expect a button with that label would do, or my grandmother, or my clients.

In your scenario, what would that button do? Describe how to navigate to it, and what each step of the process would look like visually.

The point I’m getting at is that every new “simple thing” is being added to a UI that literally hundreds of millions of people, the vast majority of whom don’t know a pixel from a frying pan, will use. Every advanced feature needs to be weighed *heavily* against ease of use. Pull too hard towards advanced features, and you get people like me (whom support people with their technology) utterly confused as to why their device is doing something unexpected that they don’t even have the language to describe.

Sorry, this is a non-argument for the sake of arguing. Adding one new command to the Files three dot menu is not going to all of a sudden create a storm of confusion. People just won't use it unless they need it. Are your parents experts in connecting to external servers, but somehow unable to grasp the concept of file folder synchronization? Or do they just not use the "Connect to Server" menu. What about "Locations" ?

Apple is not adding folder synchronization for one of three reasons. Either the iOS filesystem limitations make reliable folder content sync much harder than on other OS. Or this is one of the feature disparity items between iPadOS and MacOS designed to push some users towards Macs. Or, they just don't care to spend the engineering hours required to implement and maintain this feature unless there's a strong enough push from users.

 

[NEPOBABY]

iCloud is a sync service. Not really a file backup service. It will keep backups of your devices but they are only snapshots in time. If you accidentally delete important data in a file, there's no way to go back later and retrieve it, it will be overwr with latest version.

Your Google Drive should have file version history. I am using OneDrive (can't beat getting access to the entire MS Office and 1TB of storage for $50 per year). But GDrive is propbably equivalent. File versioning helps with fixing "oh *****" but also allows to recover from ransomware attacks.

I use Cryptomator to encrypt my sensitive data. It's cross-platform (Windows, Linux, Mac, Android, iOS), open source, and has been very reliable for me for years. OneDrive also has its own encrypted storage (Vault) for paid accounts, which is pretty good. There may be something similar in GDrive.

You also should maintain at least one, better else three rotating physical storage copies of your important data, preferably in different locations. Cloud storage services are usually very reliable, but they do manage to lose customers' data sometimes.

In this day and age you should store your local documents in encrypted DMG files. That way when you sync to any cloud service it will be double encrypted. The only issue in this case is iPadOS's Files app doesn't mount DMG files, when it should.

That reminds me to check if it does in the beta.

 

[Webcat86]

iCloud is a sync service. Not really a file backup service. It will keep backups of your devices but they are only snapshots in time. If you accidentally delete important data in a file, there's no way to go back later and retrieve it, it will be overwr with latest version.

Your Google Drive should have file version history. I am using OneDrive (can't beat getting access to the entire MS Office and 1TB of storage for $50 per year). But GDrive is propbably equivalent. File versioning helps with fixing "oh *****" but also allows to recover from ransomware attacks.

I use Cryptomator to encrypt my sensitive data. It's cross-platform (Windows, Linux, Mac, Android, iOS), open source, and has been very reliable for me for years. OneDrive also has its own encrypted storage (Vault) for paid accounts, which is pretty good. There may be something similar in GDrive.

You also should maintain at least one, better else three rotating physical storage copies of your important data, preferably in different locations. Cloud storage services are usually very reliable, but they do manage to lose customers' data sometimes.

True, when I say iCloud as a backup service, it auto backs up my iPhone and iPad. My Photos are also backed up there, but I think Time Machine captures the photo files too.

I don't really do a lot of offline work these days, so there isn't really much to backup separately anymore. Google Drive gets my Docs, iCloud gets my Pages and Numbers files, Safari gets my tabs etc. File versioning isn't much of an issue for me but Google Docs has that anyway.

 

[SnowCrocodile]

In this day and age you should store your local documents in encrypted DMG files. That way when you sync to any cloud service it will be double encrypted. The only issue in this case is iPadOS's Files app doesn't mount DMG files, when it should.

That reminds me to check if it does in the beta.

Yes, this would be a good setup if iOS / iPadOS could mount encrypted DMGs. Cryptomator offers the same "double-encryption", is crossplatform, and specifically designed with mobile devices in mind (e.g. all data is broken in small files so the sync of changes is always incremental even if the cloud service doesn't itself provide incremental sync). But it does add another level of complexity.

 

[jdb8167]

I would like power users to once explain how they would design their requests in a way that wouldn’t fundamentally make the UI more confusing for the 90% of iPad users out there.

It’s actually quite simple. Just enable the ARM virtualization in the Apple silicon SoCs that they disabled a few versions ago. Then add the macOS virtualization libraries from macOS. Finally allow macOS virtualization apps in the iPadOS App Store. Don’t want macOS on your iPad then simply don’t install it.

Apple will not do this because they lose control of forcing everything iOS/iPadOS to be installed from the App Store. There is no technical reason it can’t be done.

 

[SnowCrocodile]

True, when I say iCloud as a backup service, it auto backs up my iPhone and iPad. My Photos are also backed up there, but I think Time Machine captures the photo files too.

I don't really do a lot of offline work these days, so there isn't really much to backup separately anymore. Google Drive gets my Docs, iCloud gets my Pages and Numbers files, Safari gets my tabs etc. File versioning isn't much of an issue for me but Google Docs has that anyway.

File versioning is not an issue until it is. It's also a protection against ransomware. Smart ransomware is designed to wait for a while before triggering an attack, so even your backups are infected. With file versioning, you can go as far back as it takes to find a clean version. IIRC, even the personal OneDrive account saves 25 file versions. Most people don't maintain 25 consecutive backups.

And cloud storage is not foolproof. Google and MS and Apple all irrecoverably lose customers data sometimes. It's a rare thing but it happens. I'd trust iCloud more than an offline SSD, but having both ensures that your data is safe.

 

[Webcat86]

File versioning is not an issue until it is. It's also a protection against ransomware. Smart ransomware is designed to wait for a while before triggering an attack, so even your backups are infected. With file versioning, you can go as far back as it takes to find a clean version. IIRC, even the personal OneDrive account saves 25 file versions. Most people don't maintain 25 consecutive backups.

And cloud storage is not foolproof. Google and MS and Apple all irrecoverably lose customers data sometimes. It's a rare thing but it happens. I'd trust iCloud more than an offline SSD, but having both ensures that your data is safe.

But how does it work with something cloud-based, like Google Docs? Is it even possible to back that up to an offline SSD?

 

[SnowCrocodile]

But how does it work with something cloud-based, like Google Docs? Is it even possible to back that up to an offline SSD?

I don't use Google services, but assume it's similar to Microsoft's.

All documents are stored in the cloud, and synced to devices as links. But in OneDrive app on every device, I can mark files or folders (or the entire OneDrive folder) for offline use. These marked files and folders are fully synchronized to the device, and can be backed up just like any other file.

I can also back up from the cloud, by exporting all of my data to a zip file.

 

[Webcat86]

I don't use Google services, but assume it's similar to Microsoft's.

All documents are stored in the cloud, and synced to devices as links. But in OneDrive app on every device, I can mark files or folders (or the entire OneDrive folder) for offline use. These marked files and folders are fully synchronized to the device, and can be backed up just like any other file.

I can also back up from the cloud, by exporting all of my data to a zip file.

I’ll look into that. I don’t particularly like using Google services so Drive is entirely browser based for me, not an app.

 

[SnowCrocodile]

I’ll look into that. I don’t particularly like using Google services so Drive is entirely browser based for me, not an app.

Look into MS. If your work or school subscribes to MS services, which most do, you're probably eligible for their Workplace Discount program. It's 30% off the regular price (comes to around $50 per year after tax in the US) and it comes with 1 TB of online storage, and full MS Office on any device you use. That's a great deal.

I also far prefer Excel over Google Sheets, but that's just personal preference.

 

[Webcat86]

Look into MS. If your work or school subscribes to MS services, which most do, you're probably eligible for their Workplace Discount program. It's 30% off the regular price (comes to around $50 per year after tax in the US) and it comes with 1 TB of online storage, and full MS Office on any device you use. That's a great deal.

I also far prefer Excel over Google Sheets, but that's just personal preference.

We don’t, Google is the system the company uses and it’s also pretty much the industry standard for what I do

 

[SnowCrocodile]

We don’t, Google is the system the company uses and it’s also pretty much the industry standard for what I do

Well, I’m sure there’s a way to back up Google docs.

OTOH, even at the full price, it’s less than $6 per month for 1TB of storage and MS Office, not too bad.

Also, all you need is an email account from a company that pays for MS service for one-time verification - so a friend / GF / BF could help out just as well, if they don’t plan on using this for themselves.

 

[Runaway Train]

The native app Files is at least to me a convoluted mess. Just today looking at a shortcut to Reedle Documents. I can get there but no access to music files as I have in the native app. Cannot move or delete any of the files that I can see only open them. Ok so back to the native in app look at those files.

Files in separate app containers - in and of itself non-intuitive. Wait, there are a different set of App containers for local and iCloud Drive - some apps are present some not. If I create a directory structure within Files, and move files there from the app containers will the apps continue to force me to “Save’ to these containers and repopulate them? And on and on…..

OK so maybe it’s me. Maybe I haven’t spent enough time with this system (have owned iPads since 2010). I keep holding out hope that Apple will finally rethink the file system, but that hope is dimming. Perhaps go cloud only and save on local storage. One Drive seems to work but that’s not exclusively where I store files. Can’t get my head around this structure after years of working in Linux, Windows and Mac OS.

 

[StoneJack]

The native app Files is at least to me a convoluted mess. Just today looking at a shortcut to Reedle Documents. I can get there but no access to music files as I have in the native app. Cannot move or delete any of the files that I can see only open them. Ok so back to the native in app look at those files.

Files in separate app containers - in and of itself non-intuitive. Wait, there are a different set of App containers for local and iCloud Drive - some apps are present some not. If I create a directory structure within Files, and move files there from the app containers will the apps continue to force me to “Save’ to these containers and repopulate them? And on and on…..

OK so maybe it’s me. Maybe I haven’t spent enough time with this system (have owned iPads since 2010). I keep holding out hope that Apple will finally rethink the file system, but that hope is dimming. Perhaps go cloud only and save on local storage. One Drive seems to work but that’s not exclusively where I store files. Can’t get my head around this structure after years of working in Linux, Windows and Mac OS.

Yes because Files is generally neither a true file manager nor a desktop. It is a kinda sandboxed storage folder, lacking functional capabilities and unable to really manage the files or store them where any app can access any file and perform a computational task. Instead, it is divided into Files, Downloads (local and unified), a mess where finding a simple file and performing a simple task becomes a convoluted step of unnecessary complications.

 

[H_D]

I think the differentiation between pro and not-pro devices makes sense and just as the Air has less processor power, fewer ports, a far worse screen, as the Air Pods sound much, much worse than the Pro version of the in-ears, the iPad Pro offers a much better technological base only crippled by an operation system that makes even mundane tasks difficult or even impossible when compared to MacOS. For different reasons that have north to do with the hardware per se. iPad OS is in real need of an overhaul and side-loading if it wants to keep up with what the hardware theoretically offers. It lacks the versatility of MacOS apps that can interact and work seamlessly together in a shared central file system, it lacks a wide range of tools that integrate into the system and fill the gaps of the OS and it lacks the commercial professional software we all work with, be it movie editing, 3D, graphic design or other specialized software where the developers simply do not offer an equivalent product on the iOS Plattform. Lightroom proves that up to a point it can be done, but PS, AI and Indesign do not exist, Logic and FinalCut without Plugins are fun, but you cannot really work with them professionall, and so on. So in the end the iPad is a closed personal device for media consumption and some light browsing/writing, also great for special apps using touch/pencil (e.g. for drawing and modeling). It could be more… and it should be more.

 

[bondr006]

Just watched wwdc 2024. They really have no clues what to do with ipados. Nothing is improved fundamentally just reiterations of past steps. There is no desktop, no window management. Ipados is more limited than 30 year old Mac os 7.5 in all possible ways. System 7.5 achieved far more and far more efficiently with the meager Motorola chip and few mb of ram than all m4 ipad pros with gbs of ram and memory. it is mind numbing how blind, shortsighted and limited are Tim and Federini in rethinking ipad os. Aside from math notes there was really nothing new in ipad’s new version. Waste of time and money. And speaking of math notes, there is no way to normally input math equations on pages aside from using some really hideous ways. Ms Word running in 1993 on Mac OS system 7 was able to do more in math equation input than whole of ipados and all of its apps in 2024. And thats a testimony to how clueless are Apple directors about ipad os as they are just to release another iteration of their so limited toy os. I wonder if they ever do meetings on improving ipad os and making it truly work oriented os. judging on wwdc video, no, they dont.

Really hideous ways? You mean like Apple Pencil or your finger?

As to your assertion that word 93 can do more with math equation....

 

[StoneJack]

Really hideous ways? You mean like Apple Pencil or your finger? View attachment 2394867

As to your assertion that word 93 can do more with math equation.... View attachment 2394868

I think you never had to write a math equation into a paper on Pages and especially on iPad. If not, just don't talk about things you don't understand.

 

[bondr006]

I think you never had to write a math equation into a paper on Pages. If not just don't talk about things you don't understand.

Then prove it! Don't give a darn about your demeaning behavior toward me and others. I'm 64 with an MBA and have written more equations on paper than you can possibly imagine. It's one of the reasons I got the iPad Pro to begin with.

Make us all a video to prove your assertions. Without courtesy, what ever intelligence you may or may not have is worthless. You claim intelligence, but keep berating the iPad in a forum full of people that like it and have found ways to make it productive for their uses. Makes you look kinda' dumb imo. Been running the mobile side of my real estate business for over two years with my iPad and much prefer it and the iPad OS over the MBP that I replaced it with.