A look at how Saharan dust affects hurricane season

OK. And background and all that. Yeah. Yeah, background looks great. Uh It looks like you're, you got *** good enough camera, you got *** good enough camera for uh for, for air quality. So I will uh that, that's great. And what I found is that um if I turn off my camera it frames you correctly. So sometimes like if I leave mine on it does you in portrait mode instead of landscape? So um if you don't mind, I'm gonna turn my camera off while we do it and uh then we'll get started. Yeah. No worries, no worries at all. OK. All right. OK. All right. I think we're good to go and uh I guess just to start just for accuracy's sake. So we get the graphic beneath you, right? If you would kind of uh go ahead and say and spell your first and last name and state your title. Sure thing. So my name is Tony Bartle and it's spelled Tonyb *** RT Elme. So I'm Tony Bartle. Me, I'm *** project reporter for the Post and Courier in Charleston. Perfect. Perfect. And um I guess kind of just diving right into it. How did this, um how did this story idea come about? Uh where, where did you, um, I guess how did it start into going all the way across the Atlantic Ocean for the story? That's, that's really remarkable. That really took me by surprise when Jane told me about this. Yeah. Yeah. Why send uh two journalists from South Carolina, you know, 5000 miles away to do *** local story? I mean, that's ***, that's *** great question. So it really began, you know, years ago, I remember reading in *** book about how dust from the Sahara desert made, it made its way all the way across the ocean to, to the Georgia coast. And I remember tucking that, uh, away in my mind and then last year's hurricane season was really bizarre for most of the summer. We basically didn't have any hurricane formation of, to speak of all the way until September. And the reason was because all this dust blowing off, the Sahara was essentially smothering those storms and when that dust cleared up we had *** ton of storms. So, understanding that mechanism really became important to me. Yeah. And it, it going all the way to where it was coming from and understanding, you know, that I'm, I'm sure how it impacts people that are right in the path of it as soon as it's coming off was really important too, I guess. Yeah, I think it's important to understand that the there's this hurricane nursery just off the coast of West Africa. And, um, it's the, that area that's the birthplace, uh, of, of the worst of our storms including Hugo in 1989. So, if we understand kind of this hurricane nursery, we really kind of understand, you know, what happens down the road to all of us here in South Carolina. Sure. Yeah. Majority of those storms just, they start right off there right off the coast and track all the way across and, you know, if the, if the dust is there, it really does help to put *** damper on that, for sure. And how, how did you start planning? So, the trip itself, how did you begin planning that? And did, how did you already have, um, connections made over there? How did, how did you, um, get to, how, I guess how did the planning the trip start? So, you, you really have to do *** lot of planning before you go on, on *** trip like this. I, you know, I could have just phoned people in, in Africa and, and I could have, you know, just done an internet search but to really give people *** sense, *** texture, *** flavor of what's happening, you really have to go to *** place. And so for, for about three or four months, I, I spent time getting to know some of the scientists in West Africa. And so by the time I went there. I, I knew who they were and, and what they were doing, which is really cool to me, really cool to me that you, you, you took, you really went the extra mile with this to actually meet the people that are, that are studying this, that are impacted by this. Uh And it was really cool and in particular uh hopefully I get the pronunciation, right? Musa Gay. Um Musa Gay. Um What was um the favorite thing you learned in spending time with him uh when, when you were over there? So is this very, very um you know, very, so s gay is this great uh uh scientist in West Africa? He, he, he actually teaches in *** pretty remote city in Senegal in Western Africa. Um But he had this great personal story about how, when he was just six years old, you know, the waves. Uh he lived on the beach with his family and the, and the waves just essentially stole his, his uncle's house. And from that beginning that, that trauma, he decided to become *** scientist to focus on, you know, the co the forces of nature and, and what causes such um horrific things to happen. So I really found his personal story to be *** great entree into these larger climactic forces around us. That uh that story is, is pretty familiar. I mean, most people you meet who decide that they want to do Earth Sciences, meteorology, whatever it might be have some sort of story from their childhood that they, that they live through, that kind of inspired them to research and it sounds like that was, that was his story as well? Um And was that just, just out of curiosity that that story that he told, uh with, with the waves coming in? Did that sound like it came from uh *** storm or was it, was it possibly something else? So that was *** storm that, uh, that, that kind of, that one of those waves that kind of pushed through Africa, uh, West Africa, uh, on *** regular basis? Ok. Yeah, one of those, you know, initial disturbances that eventually morphs into *** tropical storm hurricane. That makes sense. Exactly. Gotcha. Gotcha. And, uh, you also got to be to ***, *** doctor Gregory Jenkins. Is that right? Is it Doctor Jenkins? Yeah, Greg, uh Greg Jenkins, Professor Greg Jenkins from Penn State, who, who is, uh, you know, really developed this wonderful network of scientists across West Africa and connecting them to scientists in the United States. And, and, and the benefit of that is that we are beginning to understand better, uh about how tropical storms form even in Africa itself. Right? Yeah. And I, I'm, I'm sure that he could probably speak *** lot on that and I'm sure he also talked about the need for real instrumentation on the ground. There's *** real gap there where, you know, it's our forecast models are only as good as our input and I'm sure that uh he talked about the need for actual sensors there on the ground. Yeah, there's very few sensors. We have *** ton in the United States, right? We got AAA gazillion of them. And, you know, actually I've got *** phone that's just ringing off the hook here. Hang on one second. Oh, you're good. You're good. Yeah, sorry. No worries, no worries. But yeah, I guess he um he discussed that, you know, there, there is *** real lack of, of information that, that you would really need, you need insitu on the ground measurements for *** lot of uh for, you know, the most accurate for the for our forecast models to be as accurate as they can be, you know, satellite in instrumentation can only get you so far. So, yeah, I did and I'm sure he probably told you about that. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, there's, you know, there we, we have *** ton of sensors in the United States. We're measuring everything, but there are very few sensors, relatively speaking in West Africa and, and so he's, he's really trying to remedy that, that deficit for sure, for sure. And it's going on to the the long term dust trends uh for, for some of the findings I I you mentioned in the article how some of these findings for long term dust projections can be kind of either inconclusive or maybe somewhat contradictory. Uh, but regardless it is, it is *** fact of life. Um, did, did, uh, Doctor Jenkins or, uh, or Mousa, did they say anything to you personally about what they think about long term dust projections? Yeah, there's *** bit of *** debate about what's gonna happen. So, the important thing to know is that dust essentially turns on and turns off our hurricanes in *** lot of ways. And, um, so if there's more dust, that's *** good thing. Uh, if, uh for hurricanes at least, um, and it, there are some studies that suggest that there's going to be actually less dust in, in this layer that crosses the Atlantic. If that's the case, that means we're, it's more likely to have, we're more likely to have these, these storms pop up. Um And there's some concern that there's gonna be less dust because of *** rapidly warming clim climate. Now, Moosa Gay and, and Greg Jenkins have, have come up with, uh, some evidence that suggests that maybe there will be more dust. Um So it's *** bit of ***, uh, little bit of *** debate right now. Sure. Yeah. Yeah, it's the re the, the jury is still out, so to speak on what exactly it will look like into the future. But, um, yeah, like, like you said, it's as far as, you know, hurricanes, it is definitely beneficial to have that layer there. But on the other hand, for people who are living in Senegal and Mauritania. It is, uh, much more detrimental, I guess. Did, uh, did Musa and Doctor Jenkins, did they, did they talk about that as well? How it's, you know, definitely impacts local air quality there? Yeah. So dust for, for us in the United States, we kind of like it, you know, it makes our sunsets more beautiful and, and it, it turns kind of turns off our hurricanes, but in West Africa, you have, you know, the dust actually creates this incredible health impact, you know, breathing. It is, is horrible for, for asthma and allergies. So it's, it's actually *** really big problem in, in West Africa when the dust builds up. And I think I've, I uh there was one line in the article I remember vividly because it gave me images of, well from two movies, number one from Interstellar where the dust is covering everything on the plate. So they have to turn everything over and then sort of of the movie food where every, just the dust just covers everything in, in sight. Was that, um did you kind of have, it's, it's maybe, you know, more of *** personal question, but like, did you kind of have, you know, thoughts in your mind that kind of reminded you of those, those scenes from, from movies like that when you were, when you were there? I guess. So, the interesting thing is when we were there in May there wasn't that much dust. And at first I thought, oh, no, we, we came all this way and we don't really have *** story. But the thing is if, if there is less dust, well, we will tend to see more hurricanes and that's exactly what happened in June. We saw *** couple of storms pop up when they don't normally pop up. So, in *** way, it kind of validated this, so sort of the hypothesis of our story. So we, we, you know, we did, I did, you know, bring back some dust here, you know, I got ***, I got ***, *** big pile of orange dust, you know, just walking through the dunes in Mauritania. Um As Campbell's lumbered by to. So it was, it was, it was *** beautiful landscape, this beautiful orange dust that eventually kind of gets into our, you know, atmosphere and creates these beautiful orange sunsets sometimes and it's *** lot finer than most people realize. Right. I mean, we're talking about particles that are probably *** lot smaller than, than sand. Yeah. So the sand is, it's not really the sand that blows up into the atmosphere. It's these tiny, tiny particles that, that can travel thousands of miles. Right. Right. For sure. And it was, it, was there anything else that they said about, you know, local impacts as far as did, did you, did they say anything about the dust impacting local fisheries or those two kind of unrelated because I know fishing is such ***, such *** big part of the economy over there. Yeah, fishing's, yeah, that there's really no, I, no, you know, obvious connection, I guess really got you just, just curious, just curious. Um So that was really all the main questions I had what I guess just to, just to kind of sum it all up. What was the, the most memorable thing during your time there? I think the most memorable part of this, this journey was just this incredible connectivity between, you know, what might be happening 5000 away, you know, might what might be happening 5000 miles away. Yeah, I'll go ahead and say that again, you know, I think what, what really my biggest takeaway was that, you know, we're all connected, you know, what happens 5000 miles away actually has *** direct impact on us here in South Carolina. You know, what happens in the Sahara doesn't necessarily stay in the Sahara. Yeah. Yeah. And it's, it's, it's not just in for, it's not just hurricane season, you know, you mentioned in the article, which is, which is true that, you know, the, the iron and phosphorus that's in that dust does help to fertilize the Amazon rainforest and all the other rainforest in Central America, which is uh it's, it's really crucial that people understand that there's, there's everything's sort of connected, it, it, it all uh fits together. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, it's Yeah, that's that wonderful, really fast nature. Yeah, that I just love that connectivity of, of, of everything and, and when, and if you don't understand those connections, you're really, you're kind of cheating yourself. And so *** big part of our effort is, is to try to connect to make those connections for our readers. And that's, that's the fun thing. Yeah. Yeah. And it's, I just think this is so cool that you got that you took the time to do this. It really, really uh respects, you know, the amount of effort that you, that you put into this. So uh I'm really happy I get to get to highlight this. Uh this, this is, this is really cool, Tony. Thank you. Yeah, it's kind of interesting. I don't know if you noticed but there's this big blob of Saharan uh um uh dust kind of over the Caribbean now heading toward Florida and then just behind it, there's this break, you know, break in dust and guess what's happening, you know, the wave popped up. Yep. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah, there's, there's an area of interest down there and uh I've got *** video of *** little video loop I've made of the outbreak that you talked about in June of 2020. I, I put together *** bunch of satellite images showing that plume crossing the Atlantic. So I'm excited to include that for the uh for the story for this. Very cool. Yeah, and I'm I'm pretty sure this, I'm pretty sure this will run later this afternoon. Uh, if not, it would be sometime next week. So, uh, as soon as it runs, I'll be happy to, to, to send you *** little, little video of it. So, but, uh, other than that, uh, just to just thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate it. Tony. Yeah, man. No, happy to do it. Yeah. Stay cool. I'm, I'm, my air conditioner is burned out, so I'm just dying here. Oh, jeez. No, this is the worst time for it. Yeah. Getting it. Getting somebody. Yeah. Good luck. So. Dang. Dang. Well, I'm really glad Jane connected us too. So, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'll be, you know, happy to work with you in the future. Absolutely. I used to live in Greenville. So you do? Ok. I thought you were living in Charleston. I got you. I, no, I used to live in Greenville. I, uh, my first job out of journalism school was in Greenville and 30 years ago and I love the upstate. I loved it. Yeah. It's the, the mountains and, uh, the people. It's, yeah, I miss it. Yeah, it's, it's great. I, me and my wife have lived here for about *** year and *** half but she's ***, she's *** firm and grad so before we moved here she was already familiar with the area. You know, we're kind of looking at places to move to and I'm, I'm with you. I it's, it's been, it's been good to us. It's been good to us. Awesome. Well, I'm so glad it so nice to meet you. Yeah, good to meet you too. Take care and thanks again for your time. You bet, take care, man. All right. Bye bye bye.