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[BELLS RINGING]

So here’s what we know when it comes to the antiwar protests on college campuses and electoral politics. President Biden has a problem with young activists. And the disapproval, particularly from the left, has only intensified in the days after the president spoke critically about the protests. But whether or not he has a problem with the young electorate at large remains to be seen, which is why one response from a more mainstream organization really caught my attention, the College Democrats of America, who said last week, the White House was on a, quote, “mistaken route,” unquote, that could make it harder to win young voters.

The statement turned heads in political circles, because the College Democrats are closely aligned with national party leadership. Leaders of the group are delegates to the Democratic Convention. And it’s pretty rare to see them say anything bad about a Democratic president.

And as I soon learned, the statement also divided the group’s leadership. So over the past few days, we reached out to a bunch of the group’s members, including members of the executive board, the head of its Muslim caucus, and the chair of its Jewish caucus, to get the inside story of what happened and why.

Today, how the College Democrats of America came to break with the Democratic president and what it could mean for the fall. From “The New York Times,” I’m Astead Herndon. This is “The Run-Up.”

[MUSIC PLAYING]

Hey, how are you?

Good, how are you, Astead.

Good. Good, thanks for chatting with us.

Yes. No, thank you for having me on. How have you been so far?

I’m doing OK. My Friday is kind of just largely starting. How about yours?

I’m trying to finish up my senior thesis, which is like 30 pages.

Oh, what’s it about? Tell me.

It’s about populism, actually. I’m doing a comparative study on populism in Brazil and Turkey.

Hasan Pyarali is a senior at Wake Forest University in North Carolina. He’s also the chair of the College Democrats’ Muslim caucus. And he helped craft the statement that the College Democrats put out last week.

Growing up, I really wasn’t into politics that much, not because I didn’t find it interesting. Of course, I did. I just never thought there was a place in there for me. You can ask some of my friends in middle school and high school. I always talked about being a prime minister of Pakistan — that’s where my family’s from — because I never thought I had a future in politics here.

Why did you feel that?

I guess because there was no role models out there for me. Obama had been elected when I was a little kid. And I saw the backlash that he had gotten as the first Black president. And people were saying, this will never happen again.

Where things changed for me on that score was 2018. And then I saw people like Ilhan Omar and Rashida Tlaib, people who proudly wore their Muslim identities and told the world who they were. And they got elected for that.

So seeing them win was just so heartening. And it made me feel like I had a chance, too, because growing up, post 2001, post 9/11, that generation that I was part of, the only thing I saw was the rejection of Islam, the rejection of Muslims. And so that was really inspirational to me.

Eventually, Hasan’s interest in politics led him to volunteer for Bernie Sanders in his bid for the 2020 Democratic nomination.

Let me tell you, I was spending all my free time — and my friends can tell you, in high school, I was spending all my free time knocking doors, calling people, saying, you got to vote for Bernie. Come on, you got to do this. I was posting on my Instagram, posting on Snapchat.

It’s so funny, because I would consider myself a fairly political high-schooler. And the idea of me spending my free time knocking on doors for a political candidate is wild.

Yeah. No, literally, I would go to farmers markets and be like, hi, would you like to vote. And I would be the only one there passing out flyers. And I would just talk to — and me being a high-schooler, so that was just how I spent my free time. Seeing that not work out, though, was a little bit of a hit to me. I was like, dang.

Seeing the Bernie campaign not working?

Yeah. Yeah, because it represented everything we wanted in terms of economic policy, social policy. The change was real. The energy was there. We just about had it. And then, for that not to have worked out was a little bit of a blow to me personally.

But when Joe Biden ultimately became the Democrats’ nominee, Hasan was impressed with his outreach to young voters and got on board.

He adopted $15 an hour. He was talking about canceling $10,000 in student debt, which isn’t everything, but it’s still a lot. He talked about bringing a new revolution in terms of public transportation. And I was like, wait, there is some good here. There is some things I can latch on to. So it was actually purely policy-driven, my willingness to work on his campaign.

Mm-hmm, so Biden goes and wins in 2020. And in the first couple of years, I’m curious how you felt about the administration and also how your involvement in College Democrats developed.

In terms of Biden, in the first couple of years, I was elated. I was like, rah, rah, rah, Biden, I love him, because he did the Child Tax Credit, the American Rescue Plan, the checks. They weren’t quite $2,000, but they were pretty good, right, opening things back up in a pretty efficient manner, I think.

And the biggest thing for me was the withdrawal from the Afghanistan war, because I had seen so much devastation for so many years. And being antiwar was also one of those things that a lot of people in my community, a lot of Muslims were antiwar. But that was a very non popular view.

And that was a big deal. So seeing that happen, I was on the moon. I was like, wow, he’s really delivering. I think, at least in the first couple of years, I was very happy.

How did you come to be the Muslim Caucus chair?

Yeah, it was the beginning of my senior year. And before that I hadn’t really seen too much outreach on the behalf of the Democratic Party towards Muslim Americans, I don’t think, besides the occasional “Happy Ramadan” and things like that. So I was like, yeah, there’s a lot of work here to be done. It sounds like actually a really cool position. And then, this year has been my [INAUDIBLE] of being Muslim Caucus chair.

And what a year. I mean, I am partially — I mean, this is what we’re here to talk about is the ways that chair seat has put you in the center of some big developments with College Democrats. I guess I wanted to start on October 7 or around that time. That’s when, obviously, Hamas launched their attack in Israel, killing 1,200 people, according to officials there. I mean, what did you think when you saw the events unfold? And what was the immediate conversation among the College Democrats of America?

Right, so first of all, just to start off with, yeah, you’re right. That chairmanship was supposed to be vote on things when votes are brought up and advocate for the “Happy Ramadan” posts. That’s all. It turned out to be a lot more.

So on October 7, when that all went down, it was like, OK, we need to appoint people on this. We need to have a stance on this. And my feelings on that day were, I couldn’t see a good way out. But also, this is not a new issue.

The problem didn’t start on October 7. I remember going to the mosque. I think it was 10 years old. And halfway through the prayer, the imam, who is supposed to keep a solemn tone, just read the verses, and then move on, he broke down halfway through and started crying.

And this never happens. I’ve never seen it. And after that, too, I’ve never seen it in my life. And he started crying about Gaza. And so, on October 7, I was like, this has been happening for so long.

Did you say that?

I did. I did. And I not only said that, I wrote a piece in the “Old Gold and Black” about it, talking about how this is not a new thing, this has been going on since I was a kid.

That’s the campus newspaper.

Yes.

— in Wake Forest.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That’s our campus newspaper. And I wrote a piece saying, I so sympathize with your pain because you’re so devastated. And I’ve been devastated, too. We have to come together now and stand with each other in our pain.

So when we had a vigil here for the Jewish lives lost, I went there with my Jewish friends and stood with them. And I’m so glad to say that, when we had our Muslim vigil, when the retaliation started, and I think at the time, 5,000, 8,000 people were killed, a lot of my Jewish friends came and stood with me at that Muslim vigil. So I knew I had a heightened role.

I personally have put out a lot of statements in terms of me and my personal capacity, right, both on Instagram, in the “Old Gold and Black,” and I was trying to keep things tame on our campus. And I talked about it a lot with people in College Democrats. And the culmination of my role really came around November and December, where I was like, OK, I’ve been in these conversations. Something needs to be said. We need to take a position and call for a ceasefire.

How were you received?

Very well, actually. Everyone who I talked to was like, I’ve been looking for someone to do this and I haven’t done it yet. but I’m so glad that you did, because it takes a lot of courage to do this. And nearly everyone I talked to put their name as co-sponsors.

Then I got to talk to the Jewish Caucus chair, who was the last person who I hadn’t spoken with, and talked to her for the first time — Allyson, very nice person. And we got working together. And she also cosigned that ceasefire resolution. And when we put it up for a vote, it got unanimous consent.

And if I read the resolution, it says, “The College Democrats of America, spearheaded by the Muslim Caucus and Jewish Caucus, unanimously called for a ceasefire in the Middle East and denounced the rise of anti-Semitism and Islamophobia on college campuses across the country.”

Yeah.

And I see a lot of the main chairs here, of the College Democrats of America, signed it. And you said the resolution was passed unanimously.

That’s right.

Now, question I have, though, is, Rashida Tlaib, Ilhan Omar, politicians you have mentioned here, were calling for the Biden administration to do that also around this time. And you weren’t really seeing that get big traction among national. Why did you all feel that you had to go ahead of where the main Democrats are?

So in December, it was actually a very rare and tough position to take, which is why I was so hesitant for so long. But I just felt like a moral compulsion that I had to at least try. And if I tried and failed, that would be OK. But at least I tried. And I thought our position as a part of the DNC gave us a platform that no one really else had. Of course, Ilhan Omar, Rashida Tlaib, were calling from them from the outside. But it will be huge for the party itself to rebuke the president and say, we are calling for a ceasefire. And that’s what we —

The youngest members of the party and members of the DNC to call for it itself. I do think it’s unique. I mean, one question I have for you is, around that time, there was an explosion of youth activism, people interrupting the president and vice president, particularly at their public events. We spoke to some protesters who interrupted President Biden at Mother Emanuel in South Carolina.

At the church, yeah.

In the church, some of those actions were controversial. What did you think of those tactics that others were using to push the administration from the outside?

Oh, I thought they were amazing. I have so much respect for those activists who interrupted him at the church and everywhere else, because I think when politicians take a contra — not even controversial. When they take a morally wrong stance, they shouldn’t be given any peace. Everywhere they go, they should be yelled at. And I got to do some of my own yelling to politicians here at Wake Forest.

They had invited President Bush to come on. And when Bush came, and he started talking about how the Iraq war was justified, I don’t know what came over me. But I got up in my seat and just started yelling at him, you liar, you lied to the American people, you’re lying now.

I’m kind of curious as to your embrace of these tactics, considering you’re someone who exists both in a “insider-y” and “outsider-y” space. I think about your work with Biden campaign, while at the same time saying that you believe that politicians who take stances that are deemed morally reprehensible should face no peace. I mean, do you see any tension in the worlds that you exist in?

Oh, there’s so much, yeah.

Yeah, I guess I’m saying, how do you untangle that?

It’s tough to be in this space because I think it takes both. I think it takes people on the inside pushing the envelope and calling for change internally. I think, when that message comes from someone like me, who has worked on the Biden campaign, who has worked in local congressional races, I think it has a little bit more meaning to it because I’ve done the work and I’ve been there. And also, I think they need to feel the public pressure, too. If it’s just me saying it with no public pressure, it falls flat because they don’t feel the need to listen.

Mm-hmm, well, let’s talk about the last couple of weeks, because those have really exploded this issue even further, particularly the liberated zones or encampments that we have seen across college campuses and in places like Columbia University, where university presidents called in the police after students forcefully took over a building. I mean, when you see actions like that, is there any uncomfort with students taking over a building, some folks where we’ve seen individual instances of anti-Semitism, how do you separate the larger agreement with the moral cause, with an alignment with some protesters that have become increasingly controversial within the Democratic Party?

That’s right. I think there’s a parsing that we can do that’s pretty easy for me to do personally. I can say, at the same time, yes, there’s bad actors here and that you’re going to have that in any movement. But I think, as long as the majority of people are doing the right thing and standing there in a morally just cause, I think that’s something that we should stand with. And I don’t think it’s worth condemning an entire movement, which is what we’ve seen.

Mm-hmm, I was going to ask about what you thought about the White House’s response to the encampments. What were you hoping that the president said versus what he actually did say?

Yeah, I was hoping he would say, I hear you, I stand with you, it’s time to change, and call for a ceasefire. I hope he would see that there’s a wide swath of people all across the country crying out, what we’re doing is morally wrong and it needs to change. But also politically, if I saw my own voters coming out there and protesting, I would change course. And that’s what I was hoping for.

What I saw was a condemnation of all the protesters as anti-Semitic and no support for them. They were given the cold shoulder in both his press conference yesterday and his statement that he released beforehand. And that was just — it was saddening, it was shameful, and I think it was just disgraceful the way he went about it.

The last thing I wanted to say, and then I want to get to the actual statement you all put out in the last couple of days, is about Biden’s response. You said that you felt that he was just painting everyone with a full brush of anti-Semitism or things. But he also did affirm the larger right to protest.

He’s talked about his own involvement in movements previously. But he tried to make a distinction between what he felt was happening in these verses more peaceful protests. Why isn’t that the right tone for a president to strike, in your opinion?

Yeah, and I think, of course, that distinction needs to be made. But you have to look at the majority of what people are doing is painting them with a broad brush and saying, yeah, but the few of you who are peaceful have a right to protest. I think that approach paints the majority of people as violent. It paints the majority of people as anti-Semitic, too, when they’re not.

And so I think that it’s important to draw a distinction. And at the same time, you can recognize what the majority of people are calling for. And if he really wanted to get things toned down on college campuses, he would change course.

Well, take me through the steps. You all decide to take the very unique action of criticizing the administration’s response. But logistically, did you write the statement alone?

Yes.

Did you write the — what happened.

So, yeah, logistically, this what happened. So we were talking about it. They said, guys, we have to write something on this. And I was like, this is what needs to be said. From there, it took a few drafts.

If you look at my Google Docs right now, there’s like draft 1.0, 2.0, 3.0, 4. Different people are shared on it. I got to work with Allyson Bell, our Jewish Caucus chair, as well, because she made it very clear that she wanted to see the denouncement of anti-Semitism. And I stood with her in that and said, yes, there needs to be the case.

Were there other red lines that people had? What did you have to include?

Yeah, no, that was one of the biggest red lines is that we had to include a condemnation of anti-Semitism. The other red lines people had mentioned to me was we have to stand with the cause for divestment and an immediate recognition of a Palestinian state, which is what we were able to do.

And so that’s an interesting point. You all would more than say, we affirm the general rights of protest.

Oh, yeah.

You said, “We stand with their specific policy goal of asking these campuses to divest from companies that make money off of what’s happening in Gaza and to affirm the existence of a Palestinian state.” Did that cause backlash internally?

No, actually, I was very surprised, because at first, I was like, I don’t know how this statement is going to — very similar to my ceasefire thing, I was like, I don’t know how this is going to go. I don’t know how well-received it’s going to be. And they said, we think it’s great. Let’s put it up for a vote. And it passed by 8 to 2, which is amazing. I think I wasn’t really expecting that wide of a margin. And I was so glad that they gave me the room, space, and leadership to do that.

Mm-hmm, I’ve seen some of your colleagues criticize the statement, saying that they didn’t feel like they were fully a part of the process. What have you made of some of the criticism? And I have read that some people had said that other drafts had gone further in terms of a denouncement of anti-Semitism.

Yeah.

I guess I’m saying, I know that you got enough support for it to be 8 to 2, should have been 10 to 0.

Yes, I would have loved it to be. And in terms of one of the reasons why it wasn’t, I think, it was Josh who said it didn’t condemn Hamas. Well, this is about college campuses and what’s going on there and their demands. And I think we did say we want to release the hostages.

We did say we want a peaceful two-state solution. And I think people forget that ceasefire means ceasefire for Hamas, too. We want them to stop shooting as well. So I tried to address those criticisms.

I hear where they’re coming from. And they all have valid points. There was earlier drafts that took the overwhelming approach of denouncing anti-Semitism.

What we were trying to do here is stand with the majority of college students. And the majority of college students are not anti-Semitic. The majority of people protesting are not hateful and violent and Hamas supporters. So that’s the approach we ended up taking. And obviously, we didn’t go 10-0. I wish it had been 10-0.

This week, right after President Biden’s press conference, when asked whether the protests had had any material effect on his Middle Eastern policy, he said no. And I guess I’m wondering, as someone who helped get this — worked to get this person elected, how does that feel?

It’s a little bit disheartening, I’d say. It’s tough to hear someone — and I work so hard — not only did I work so hard, young people worked so hard. And I think growing up, especially in the Democratic party, we had this idea of a “coalition of the ascendant.” I’m sure you’ve heard the term, where as there’s more and more young people, more and more progressives, more and more people of color, the country’s getting more diverse, eventually you’re going to have a point where Democrats are just running away with it.

That’s kind of what we were hoping for. But for some reason, they found a way to break up that coalition and give us the cold shoulder. But at the end of the day, we’re still out here. We’re still trying to talk with them and see if we can change things. And I do see a future where I would love to be right there knocking doors again for Biden in 2024.

That’s what I was going to ask. Are you going to vote for Biden in November? Or do you plan to organize for Biden in November?

I would sure hope to. And I think that question rests more with him than it does with me, because it matters on how he goes about this. If he continues on this path, if he continues to go harder, the genocide becomes worse and worse and worse, that’s going to make it tougher for me.

But I’m saying, if six months from now, if Joe Biden is continuing to back Netanyahu’s government, are you voting for Joe Biden?

That’s a tough question. And I’m struggling with that every day. I haven’t really quite come to it. I think, at the end of the day, I probably would is the tough thing. But the fact that it’s a real tough question for me, I think should show that it’s probably a “no” for a majority of young people.

Thank you so much.

All right, you too. Bye.

Bye bye.

When we come back, we’ll hear from more members of the executive board and some College Democrats who thought the statement went too far.

[MUSIC PLAYING]

As College Democrats, we are committed to the reelection of President Biden and Democrats across down-ballot races in every corner of our nation. However, as representatives of youth across the country, we reserve the right to criticize our own party when it fails to represent youth voices. As young voters, we are well aware that come November, our votes will determine who wins the White House. The White House has taken the mistaken route of a bear hug strategy for Netanyahu and a cold shoulder strategy for its own base and all Americans who want to see an end to this war. Each day, Democrats fail to stand united for a permanent ceasefire —

That’s part of the statement released last week by College Democrats of America. But not every member of the group’s national leadership supported it. And in fact, two people on the 10-member executive board voted against it.

So my name is Joshua Martin. I’m a junior from Houston, Texas. And throughout the past few months, in my role as National Political Director, I’ve done things such as organize phone bankings, text bankings, working with candidates to try to get Democrats elected up and down the ballot. So it’s been definitely a fun journey.

Joshua is the former Student Body President of the University of Houston. And when I asked Joshua about his decision to ultimately vote against the statement, his explanation was twofold.

Personally, I’ve been an [INAUDIBLE] supporter of the Biden administration and how it’s handled the conflict right now. I think that as far as the protest goes, I think about President Biden’s address a few days ago, whenever he said that, I think everyone’s pro protest. No one’s against everyone having their free speech. No one’s against protesting peacefully.

But whenever you’re breaking into buildings, whenever you’re shouting Intifada, those aren’t peaceful forms of protest. So I’m honestly a fan of how the Biden administration were able to condemn the non peaceful protesting. And I’ve actually been an [INAUDIBLE] supporter about how he’s handled the conflict so far.

Not only did he feel like the statement was alienating to people like him, a young Democrat who supports Israel and President Biden.

I definitely do not agree with how College Democrats has responded as an organization to the conflict, because I think that the rhetoric is too one-sided. And there’s plenty of students within the organization who frankly did not have a say in how the organization was going to handle the conflict, and which is why, right now, they feel unimportant and unheard.

But he also took issue with the process because he felt it didn’t reflect the work of the Jewish Caucus chair or represent real consensus.

Why do you think the executive board approved the statement?

I think the executive board approved the statement because they are not well-educated on the issue. And I think they jumped the gun on something to, frankly, push an agenda that I think doesn’t reflect the values of all the College Democrats across the country.

Mm-hmm, I’m curious. A lot of your executive board went one way. What informs your steadfastness that you think that that was the wrong direction?

I think it’s just what I’ve been seeing with my own eyes. I think that what happened on October the 7th was frankly horrific. It was a terrorist attack. And it’s something that is frankly, honestly heartbreaking. The things that I’m seeing as far as anti-Semitism on college campuses are honestly also heartbreaking.

I see people on my own campus who come to me and tell me that they don’t feel necessarily safe walking to campus because they have a fear of anti-Semitism. So whenever I see those things, those are the things that push me in that certain direction, which is why I’m so passionate about being against anti-Semitism on college campuses.

Is that coupled with, have you seen the videos of folks in Gaza or the destruction from Israeli pummeling in the region. I mean, it’s curious that it seems as if some of that — you’re saying both, that you want both to be mentioned. But it seems as if the kind of sympathy driven is only coming from one side. I guess, I haven’t heard the other side.

And I feel for the people in Gaza that are suffering. But I think that the reason why they’re suffering is a result of Hamas, the terrorist group. And I think that if we truly want the Palestinian people to be safe, then we need to get rid of Hamas.

Mm-hmm, thank you so much, Joshua. I think you’ve been clear. And that’s what we wanted. So I appreciate that.

Thank you.

If Joshua’s biggest problem was that the Jewish Caucus chair’s concerns were ignored, I figured we should talk to her directly.

Hi, how are you?

Hello.

Thanks for doing this. I appreciate your time. How’s it going?

Thank you. I’m doing great. Thank you for inviting me to speak on behalf of Jewish students. I really appreciate it.

Allyson Bell is an MBA student at Meredith College in North Carolina. Much like Hasan, Allyson could not have predicted what her role as Caucus chair would come to include.

I don’t think any of us really knew what we were getting into or what was going to be happening. Once it did happen, obviously, my role grew so much. I immediately, I think, felt a responsibility to share what was happening with at least the people that were Jewish students on college campuses.

So I run the social media accounts for the Jewish Caucus. And so we started just making sure that we were covering the news of what was happening and making sure that Jewish students felt like we were here, we were listening, we understood the pain. And we were asked relatively soon to start writing a ceasefire resolution, along with the head of the Muslim Caucus, to help CDA have a permanent stance on their Instagram page.

And what did you think of that?

I knew it was important. And I wanted to make sure that my caucus felt represented. And so I was more than happy and open to work with the Muslim Caucus on writing something that we both felt represented, both of our members, both of our caucuses, and that also spoke for CDAs as a whole. And so I think that we worked together really well.

We were able to have conversations and disagree openly. And then, after that was passed, what we saw was the executive board posting things that were more one-sided. And I actually had to have a conversation and said like, hey, what you’re posting doesn’t actually represent what we said in the statement.

And at that point, we were told, importantly, I think, that anything in the future that came out about the Israeli and Palestinian conflict would first be run by me and Hasan. We became the unofficial-official point people for that conflict. And yeah, obviously, cut to today, that matters.

So when the College Democrats were going to release a statement on the most recent antiwar protests, Allyson had the same expectations as before, that she and Hasan would be equal partners.

I believe that everybody has the right to advocate for what they think is right. And so I was happy to include peaceful protests and protection of peaceful protests in our statement. I don’t necessarily always agree with what’s being advocated for. But that shouldn’t matter as long as you’re doing so peacefully. I think that that’s OK.

Obviously, what we have seen is that many of these protests haven’t been peaceful. They have been calling for Jews to go back to Poland. They’ve been calling for Intifada. And anti-Semitism is rising at an extent that I’ve never seen in my lifetime. I’ve seen more anti-Semitism in the past two weeks than I ever have.

At these protests or generally?

I would say generally, a lot of it is online as well, but in support of these protests.

The president tried to make a similar point, I feel like, in his remarks, that there was an embrace of the idea of peaceful protest, while trying to create a distinction between some of the actors that folks have seen at some of these protests. What did you think about the words President Biden said? And then, as a follow up to that, that then, how was it in CDA trying to develop a response to that?

So I respect and appreciate that Biden has stood up for what is right, and for Jewish students, despite the fact that it might mean that he loses voters within College Democrats. And I think the College Democrats wanted one narrative in their statement, which is what we saw, which is why it was so one-sided. And so to know that the administration went in the direction of completely ignoring that sentiment for the sake of pushing one narrative, I think was alienating, not only to our caucus but to Jewish students.

Were you surprised — I mean, I’m guessing, when did the tide turn? At what point did you lose touch with what eventually becomes public?

So I was asked to co-write a statement with Hasan. We did that. We brought it to the executive board. They didn’t like it. They said, we want a 50/50 approach.

So we went back to the drawing board. We worked together for multiple hours, for multiple days to get this done. And it was put up to a vote on the executive board. And it was ultimately voted down and replaced with the statement that was released. They took the statement we wrote, I think they pulled pieces out of it, and then they wrote their own thing.

And that’s the statement that passes 8 to 2.

And I will say, I was allowed to read it before it was passed. I gave feedback. I said, this is one-sided. It’s anti-Semitic.

What about the statement you believe is anti-Semitic?

I think what’s anti-Semitic is that they removed everything about anti-Semitism. So we had specific examples of what has been happening to Jewish students across the country. We listed the violence that they have faced.

And we had stronger language denouncing anti-Semitism. And so to know that the members of the executive board had gone in and intentionally deleted all of those examples and that wording in favor of something that wasn’t a strong stance against anti-Semitism, was anti-Semitism. And so that was the concern.

But the rise of anti-Semitism is mentioned in the statement.

Yes, they the two lines, I believe, that are in there were pulled specifically from our statement.

OK.

It’s true.

So I just don’t want to say that there was no mention of anti-Semitism in the statement.

Oh, I’m not —

[OVERLAPPING SPEECH]

— is that there was not mentions of specific instances of anti-Semitism and it was not the larger focus of the statement as you wished it to be.

I’m saying that it seems to me that the word anti-Semitism was put in that statement as a cover. It was, you can’t say that we’re anti-Semitic because we’ve used the word. We’ve said that we denounce it. But that’s it.

It was a footnote. It was one or two sentences. They specifically removed instances of anti-Semitism on college campuses, the harassment that Jewish students are facing, and stronger language denouncing anti-Semitism. And so I think that matters. I think it’s important that people know that that took place within this organization.

You think the focus of the statement should have been the anti-Semitism at the protest.

I would have liked to echo Biden’s ironclad commitment against anti-Semitism on college campuses.

I’m wondering how you feel about College Democrats going forward. Has this changed your relationship with the organization?

I don’t see myself staying in CDA when there’s no accountability, no inclusion, and just a general feeling of not being welcome.

You plan to leave the organization.

I believe so. That’s my thought right now. I don’t think that it represents what I believe to be right.

And to be clear, you’ll be voting for Biden in November.

Absolutely.

Thank you so much. I really appreciate it. That was really helpful.

Thank you so much.

But no matter the concerns of Allyson and Joshua, the overwhelming majority of the Executive Board of College Democrats of America did vote for Hasan’s statement. So I wanted to make sure I heard from someone in that majority. I called Sunjay Muralitharan, the National Vice President of the College Democrats of America.

I’m a second-year political science major here at University of San Diego. Additionally, I’m the National Vice President of College Democrats of America and a DNC member, which I received as an ex officio seat through my position as National Vice President.

Sunjay’s interest in politics didn’t start with the Biden campaign.

I mean, I think for me, it really started back in 2020 during the presidential election. My mom was a huge supporter of Tulsi Gabbard. And I fell into that rabbit hole. I ended up being a huge Andrew Yang fan. And he was my way in.

How interesting.

He showed me that you can be involved in politics as a regular person. And through that, I started just looking at ways to get involved once I came to college. I’m happy to be the National Vice President fighting for the best interests of youth across the nation.

But I really wanted to ask him, what message were the College Democrats trying to send President Biden? And what did he think about the criticism of his peers?

When you all decided to make the more recent statement condemning Biden’s response, I understand that that was a process that took multiple iterations. Why was that? Why did this plan shift?

I think the first statement that was written had a very clear and poignant message of standing against the anti-Semitic instances within these protests. And I think that’s a very important facet that we need to mention. Within our current statement, we do mention that. Anti-Semitism has been up over 388 percent. For Islamophobia, it’s been 216 percent.

And we make it clear that we condemn all instances of hate. And while that is a vital facet of our statement, that shouldn’t be the sole message that we’re expounding. We want it to stand with our own.

And that meant standing both with Jewish College Democrats who have received hate, but also the College Democrats of largely interfaith communities coming together to stand in favor of a Palestinian state, a two-state solution. So the message within the first statement was fantastic. It’s just that it was lacking a lot of other sentiments that we hoped to include.

Mm-hmm. Did you hear from anyone nationally after you all put out the most recent statement?

No, and this came after a lot of news sources did reach out to the Biden administration as well as higher ups in the DNC for comment.

Does that surprise you?

I mean, to an extent, yes. I think as College Democrats, it’s our job to make it clear where young people stand. This was really a call to action rather than a criticism, a call to action to do the right thing and ensure that the best interests of youth are being harbored at the highest levels of our political system. And it is a bit disheartening to know that it wasn’t received and considered by those at the top, because young people are a vital coalition for Democrats in 2024.

And if you’re looking at the numbers, it’s not great. A recent poll showed that support for Biden among youth from 18 to 29 has fallen from 60 percent in 2020 to 45 percent. So if anything, I would strongly urge the party to work alongside us. We want to work with you to ensure that young people turn out for Joe Biden in 2024.

Yeah, I was going to ask you, I mean, I’ve been asking all the young Democrats this question. Do you think Biden has a problem with young voters right now?

I think, as it stands presently, yes. And this is primarily due to Israel-Palestine. A lot of young people presently view America as an arbiter of the wrong side of history. So I think that generational disconnect is definitely not going to play well for Biden in 2024.

As a member of the DNC, are you going to Chicago? Are you planning to organize or advocate for Biden? Has this shifted any of your plans in terms of how are you going to interact politically with this election?

Well, yes. So I will be going to Chicago since I am a super delegate. And listen, we’re a Biden-backed organization. We’ve endorsed Joe Biden in the past.

And we stand by that. And I also am someone who personally supports the president. I mean, as someone who has been an unequivocal supporter of climate justice, someone who’s set carbon emissions standards lower than anything we’ve ever seen, someone who’s —

Yeah, yeah. I’m asking about you and Biden, though. I’m saying, are you going to be actively talking to other young people and making the case for Joe Biden in between now and November?

Listen, I’ll be doing my best. I think he’s done great domestically. And I will be making that case. However, I would be disingenuous, if I say the present case that I have is going to land well with young people as the — [OVERLAPPING SPEECH]

You feel like you do not have the tools to make that argument.

Exactly. I feel like I will do my best. I mean, as I said before, he’s been arguably the most progressive president in modern history. I’m a huge proponent of workers’ rights. I think the UAW strike was historic.

And for a president to stand in solidarity with them is revolutionary. But as it stands, that’s just not the focus of what young people are currently paying attention to. We can have all the resources, all the manpower on the ground, but if we’re given a broken script, it’s very difficult to turn that into something that’s conducive to exciting young people.

We actually were in the Biden campaign headquarters talking to the deputy campaign manager around November, I believe. And I asked him about the importance of what was happening in Gaza as a political issue. And the answer was essentially that they believed that other issues will matter more for people come November, that they will prioritize more domestic concerns.

And historically, we’ve not really seen voters prioritize foreign policy in American elections. Now, why do you think, for young people — for this generation, for Gen Z, why is this issue of such — I guess, I’m not disputing the facts here. I’m saying, why do you think that political explanation of people prioritize domestic concerns, why is that not true for your generation?

Well, I really appreciate that question. And I think it’s something that’s important to be addressed. If we look at 55 percent of voters from 18 to 29 stand against adding more funds to Israel. And the reason why that is a major concern is that, for young people, there’s a difference in how we receive a lot of our information.

We don’t really rely on cable news that’s filtered through an established network. We get the raw, uncut footage straight through social media on TikTok, Instagram, YouTube, and all these other sources. So if you watch cable news, and if you watch TikTok, massive disparity on how the war within the Middle East is portrayed. So that’s the first part of it.

I think the second part of it also comes down to just our differing view when it comes down to international politics. So for us, there’s this major emphasis of ensuring that there’s a just community, both not just within America, but outside of it. And that trumps any type of geopolitical interest for sure.

Last question is like, where do you think this goes? When we’re in Chicago — I’ll be there too. Do we think that Joe Biden will be met by hordes of student protesters?

That is too early to tell. I feel it’s all in his hands. I think that if he can make it clear that he stands for ensuring a peaceful two-state solution and actively works both with the Israeli and Palestinian camps and ensures that funding to Israel is a conditional reality rather than one that occurs no matter what actions Netanyahu decides to engage in, then I think that these protests and this general sentiment among students will die down. But I think the ball’s in his court.

Thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate it.

Sounds good. Thank you so much for having me.

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Sunjay makes an important point. Gen Z isn’t just younger than other generations. It’s more diverse, consumes news differently, and to the frustration of some, is radically rethinking its relationship to power, even in groups like the College Democrats of America.

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That’s the Run-Up for Thursday, May 9, 2024. And now, the rundown. Trump’s criminal trial in Manhattan continued this week.

I would say this is one of the biggest weeks we have seen in testimony so far. We’re three weeks into testimony. This was a dramatic week.

And we called our colleague, Maggie Haberman, to catch up on what happened.

So in court this week, there were two major events that happened. One is that prosecutors introduced evidence of the false business records, which are at the heart of the case.

Specifically, the new evidence introduced were the checks Trump wrote to Michael Cohen, his former fixer. And —

Secondly, there was the direct questioning by prosecutors and then cross-examination, initially, of Stormy Daniels, who is the porn star who was paid this money.

Stormy Daniels testified.

In her testimony, Stormy Daniels laid out, in really lurid detail at various points, her first interaction with Trump, this sexual encounter in a hotel suite after meeting him at a golf tournament, and then their interactions after that. She also described a lot of shame around her sexual encounter with Donald Trump, and then, later, all of the media attention around her story about meeting with him. We should be clear that Trump, in the past, outside of court, has denied that any sexual encounter happened.

By having Daniels tell her story and talk about her encounters with Trump, the prosecution was trying to clearly lay out that this relationship would be something that Trump wanted to conceal.

Well, it was a bad day for the prosecution.

But the testimony was far from clear.

The testimony went outside the bounds several times of what Justice Juan Merchan had said was allowable. The defense lawyers objected several times. And a number of those objections were sustained.

As the proceedings continued, Trump seemed increasingly upset. He cursed twice in court this week.

The judge made clear in a sidebar, that we saw in a transcript after court had ended, that it was audible. And he admonished Trump’s lawyer to get control of Trump, suggested that he might have to hold him in contempt again.

And the penalties for being held in contempt are continuing to grow.

Trump has already been fined $10,000, one for each one of these violations of the gag order. The judge has made clear that he doesn’t think that those penalties are affecting anything in terms of Trump’s behavior and has said emphatically that he is not ruling out the possibility of jail for Trump, even though he also said that’s something he wants to avoid.

Outside the courthouse on Tuesday, Trump had a few choice words for the gag order.

And two of Trump’s other criminal trials, in Georgia and in Florida, are likely to face delays this week. Both cases are now even more unlikely to begin before election day. Finally, both President Biden and Vice President Harris are on the trail this week.

On Wednesday, Biden held a campaign event in Racine, Wisconsin, and Harris held an event in Pennsylvania focused on access to abortion care. There are 67 days till the Republican National Convention, 102 days until the Democratic National Convention, and 180 days until the general election. We’ll see you next week.

“The Run-Up” is reported by me, Astead Herndon, and produced by Elisa Gutierrez, Caitlin O’Keefe, and Anna Foley. It’s edited by Rachel Dry and Lisa Tobin, with original music by Dan Powell, Marion Lozano, Pat McCusker, Diane Wong, Sophia Lanman, and Elisheba Ittoop. It was mixed by Sophia Lanman and fact-checked by Caitlin Love. Special thanks to Paula Szuchman, Sam Dolnick, Larissa Anderson, David Halbfinger, Maddy Masiello, Mahima Chablani, Nick Pittman and Jeffrey Miranda.

Do you have questions about the 2024 election? Email us at therunup@nytimes.com. Or better yet, record your question using the Voice Memo app on your phone. And then send us the file.

That email, again, is therunup@nytimes.com. And finally, if you like the show and want to get updates on latest episodes, follow our feed wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for listening, y’all.

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