Judge denies motion to dismiss charges against Trump in documents case
MARY LOUISE KELLY, HOST:
A federal judge has denied a motion by former President Donald Trump to dismiss the charges in one of the criminal indictments he's facing. This is the case in which he is charged with withholding and concealing classified and top-secret documents and then lying about it to investigators. U.S. District Judge Aileen Cannon heard two motions for dismissal at a hearing today in Fort Pierce, Fla. She dispensed with one of them hours later. NPR's Greg Allen was there and joins us now from Fort Pierce. Hey, Greg.
GREG ALLEN, BYLINE: Hi, Mary Louise.
KELLY: Hey. So that was fast. What was this motion, and why did the judge deny it?
ALLEN: Right. Well, there were two motions before the judge today. The one that Judge Cannon denied deals with a statute in the Espionage Act, which former President Trump's charged with. That's - he's charged with violating that statute when he took boxes of classified documents to Mar-a-Lago when he left the White House. Trump's lawyers argued in court that the wording of the statute is unconstitutionally vague. Trump's lawyer, Emil Bove, said there are questions about what it means to have unauthorized possession. Trump, he argues, as president, could have given himself authorization to take these documents.
In their arguments for the court, prosecutors said the meaning of the statute is clear. They say the former president lost his authorization to look at classified material when he left the White House. Trump's lawyers also tried to make the point that the prosecution of their client is politically motivated. Bove cited other cases where President Biden, former Vice President Mike Pence and former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton were found to have taken documents. Prosecutors say, in those cases, though, documents were quickly returned, and there was no effort to hide them from investigators. Judge Cannon was skeptical of the defense arguments in court. And just a couple of hours after the hearing, as you say, she issued an order denying it.
KELLY: And did she explain at all what her reasoning was?
ALLEN: Well, in court, she was very skeptical - made the point that the claim of vagueness raised by Trump has come up in many other cases before, and no court has ever found the statute unconstitutional. And she suggested the questions about whether Trump knew he wasn't authorized to take the documents or whether taking them could hurt national security raised factual questions that should be left to the trial. And that's basically what she said in her order that came down a few hours later. She said - I'm quoting from the order - she said, rather than prematurely decide now, she said the court elects to deny the motion without prejudice to be raised as appropriate in connection with jury instruction briefing and/or other appropriate motions.
KELLY: OK. Let me turn you - we've said there were two motions to dismiss in play today. What about the second one?
ALLEN: Right. Well, we haven't heard any action on that one yet. But in that motion, Trump's lawyers argue that the Presidential Records Act allowed the former president to take the boxes of documents to Mar-a-Lago. They say that law allows presidents to retain personal documents and, by taking them to Mar-a-Lago rather than sending them to the National Archives, Trump's lawyer, Todd Blanche, said that Trump was effectively saying these are personal. Prosecutors rejected that argument, of course. The Presidential Records Act, they say, has nothing to do with this prosecution. The applicable law, they say, is that statute in the Espionage Act we just talked about. Plus, they say these are presidential - not personal - documents, and prosecutors say Trump clearly knew that they were classified.
KELLY: Right. And that's important from a from a legal perspective - that he knew?
ALLEN: Yes. The prosecutors will - say they will show that Trump willfully took the documents, even though he knew he couldn't legally do so because they were classified. And they cited in court today a conversation that he had with a publisher and a book author in 2021, when he showed them a copy of an attack plan for Iran. This has been reported on before and is in the indictment. According to the conversation, Trump says, quote, "see, as president, I could have declassified it. Now I can't. But this is still secret."
KELLY: And just in a sentence or two, Greg, do we know when this trial might actually begin?
ALLEN: No. It was scheduled for May, but it won't be till late summer - maybe not until after the election if prosecutors - if the defense gets their way.
KELLY: All right. Thanks for covering all the action in the courtroom for us today.
ALLEN: You're welcome.
KELLY: NPR's Greg Allen in Fort Pierce, Fla.
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