Review
Pop Culture Happy Hour
Review
Pop Culture Happy Hour
GLEN WELDON, HOST:
For millions of kids, the popular "X-Men" animated series from the '90s served as a kind of gateway drug into the world of the X-Men in particular and comics in general. Now the story is being continued on Disney+. "X-Men '97" picks up right where the original series ended, with most of the same characters and many of the same voice actors. But changes are taking place at Xavier's School for Gifted Youngsters. Secrets get revealed. The team roster gets shuffled, and beloved characters meet shocking fates. What hasn't changed is everything fans expect from the X-Men - big fights, big powers, and lots and lots of mutant melodrama. I'm Glen Weldon, and today we're talking about the Disney+ series "X-Men '97" on POP CULTURE HAPPY HOUR from NPR.
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WELDON: Joining me today is Andrew Limbong. He's the host of NPR's Book of the Day podcast and a reporter for the culture desk. Hey, Andrew.
ANDREW LIMBONG, BYLINE: Yo, yo, yo, what's up Glen?
WELDON: Yo, yo. Also with us is Regina Barber. She's a host and reporter for NPR's science podcast Short Wave. Welcome to the show, Regina.
REGINA BARBER, BYLINE: Thank you. This is awesome.
WELDON: Yes, it is. And rounding out the panel is Vulture TV critic Roxana Hadadi. Hey, Roxana.
ROXANA HADADI: Hello.
WELDON: Hello, hello. The original "X-Men" animated series ran on Fox from 1992 to 19'97. The show adapted iconic "X-Men" storylines from the comics and captured the team's artisanal mix of mutant mayhem and melancholy.
(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "X-MEN: THE ANIMATED SERIES")
CATHERINE DISHER: (As Jean Grey) I am Phoenix.
WELDON: Hell yeah. Think of the new series "X-Men '97" as basically Season 6. The look and feel of the animation is a bit more polished, and the situation has changed. Team leader Professor X is presumed dead, and the once villainous Magneto has taken over the running of the school. Cyclops and Jean Grey are expecting a bundle of joy, but otherwise things seem normal. Rogue and Gambit are canoodling. Jubilee does fireworks, and Storm continues to be awesome.
(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "X-MEN '97")
ALISON SEALY-SMITH: (As Storm) I am Storm, mistress of the elements. Surrender the boy or face my fury.
WELDON: There it is. There it is right there. But head writer Beau DeMayo, who parted ways with the series just weeks before its premiere, attempts to thread a very difficult needle, giving old fans the X-Men they remember but introducing enough twists and shocks to hook viewers old and new. "X-Men '97" is streaming now on Disney+. We've seen the first five episodes that have aired, and we will be discussing them because hoo (ph) boy. So beware of spoilers if that's your thing. Now, I know y'all were fans of the OG series, so consider your bona fides established. But I am curious to hear what you think of the new show. Roxana, let's start with you. What do you think?
HADADI: I vibe with it very much. Like you said, my bona fides are established. I don't need to talk about watching this every Saturday, but I did.
BARBER: (Laughter).
HADADI: "'97" really takes me back to that. I wrote a piece after watching the first three episodes about how it really validates your nostalgia, and I think that's true. Nostalgia is dangerous, right? Like, we don't want to be lured back into the past and be spoon-fed everything we liked once upon a time. And to be fair, the series does this, but in...
BARBER: (Laughter).
HADADI: ...Very intelligent, updated ways. I think the character dynamics are really solid so that these are recognizable people that we used to watch. But there is political context here and subtext that I think feels very indicative of the 20-plus years that have passed since then. "X-Men" was always political. It was always interested in identity and self-expression and the government as an inherently possibly fascist institution. It does all of that really well. And so I really enjoyed it.
WELDON: All right. How about you, Regina?
BARBER: It makes me look back at my young self and be like, oh, you were pretty cool.
(LAUGHTER)
BARBER: Like, I wrote a piece about "Star Trek" and how it - "Star Trek: Next Generation" (ph) and the social justice elements of it and the science elements of it, like, basically made my career. I became a scientist who did a lot of social justice. And looking back - and when I was in elementary school, I was, like, made fun of for watching this. They're like, you're too old for cartoons and - even though I was like 12.
WELDON: (Laughter).
BARBER: And I really had this, like, sense of this show, a little bit of shame. I was like, oh, you know, like, I shouldn't have been watching this. But now as an adult, looking back and seeing all the themes that Roxana just mentioned, I was just like, I feel pretty proud of myself. You know, you think back at your childhood, and you're like, you liked cringey things, you know? But this wasn't. I agree. It's good nostalgia, and it gives me a little bit of confidence to young Gina.
WELDON: Aw.
LIMBONG: Aw.
WELDON: That's great. How about you, Andrew?
LIMBONG: I now feel bad for what I'm about to say because I was (laughter)...
WELDON: OK.
LIMBONG: First of all, I'll say I'm glad we waited until now to do this episode...
WELDON: Yeah.
LIMBONG: ...Because I'm just looking at the little notepad file I have up from, like, when I was taking notes and watching it. And the first bullet point just says, are we not embarrassed? Like, are we not ashamed to be spoon-fed...
BARBER: No.
LIMBONG: ...Just...
BARBER: The answer's no.
LIMBONG: ...Millennial nostalgia-core like this?
HADADI: No.
LIMBONG: I felt so like...
HADADI: How dare you?
BARBER: Yeah.
(LAUGHTER)
LIMBONG: I feel like we deserved better. We deserve more than just, like, regurgitating the same stupid theme song and the same beats and just...
HADADI: Stupid? Wow, Andrew.
BARBER: Oh, no - disagree.
LIMBONG: I was just so confused as to - who is this for, what am I doing here? And then Episode 5 happens - and we'll talk about this later.
WELDON: Yeah, we'll get to it. Yeah.
LIMBONG: And then it sort of recontextualizes everything. And now I'm just like, begrudgingly, I think, "X-Men '97" pilled, though with some still, like, caveats about it all.
WELDON: All right, that's interesting. This is a good mix 'cause I came at this from a very different place than y'all. I am much older than y'all. I was in grad school when the series was on the air, and I was never an "X-Men" guy growing up. I mean, I just thought they were mopey and whiny. And they kept talking about their relationships, and I just wanted them to punch things.
BARBER: They do both.
WELDON: Yeah, they do both. When I was in grad school and this was on the air, I was pretending to read Thomas Pynchon and be an intellectual, and I was pretending I never read comics.
(LAUGHTER)
WELDON: But would I, if I was alone, watch this show, like...
HADADI: Hide yourself.
WELDON: ...But not for the characters - didn't care about the characters - for, as you mentioned, the theme song.
HADADI: Yes, yes.
WELDON: Let's hear a bit of the theme song.
(SOUNDBITE OF RON WASSERMAN'S, "X-MEN: THE ANIMATED SERIES THEME")
HADADI: So good.
WELDON: Oh, my God. Has there ever been, in the history of the streaming medium, a more universally ignored skip intro button? Because if you hit skip intro on this series, we can't even be casual friends. It is that iconic.
BARBER: This TikTok came up, and it was a man who was, like, slightly older than me. And he's like, skip intro? Heck no. You know, and he's watching it, and his emotions of just, like, moving with the music, I was like, oh my God, this is me. Like, I - it instantly brought me back. How dare you, Andrew?
WELDON: How dare you?
BARBER: It was just so good. And - but I will say, to Andrew's point, it did take me a little while to get into it. Like, I was, like, kind of half watching the first one. I think the opening fight scene was really, really good. But - and then it took me a little while to get into the story. But yeah, I agree with you. Five kind of locked me in.
HADADI: I think the second one is what really hooked me...
WELDON: OK.
HADADI: ...Because isn't the second one sort of the Magneto being brought before the U.N. and...
BARBER: Yeah, that's true. Yeah, that was good.
HADADI: ...Telling them they suck to their face? I loved that. That was great.
WELDON: OK.
HADADI: That was so characteristically Magneto.
(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "X-MEN '97")
MATTHEW WATERSON: (As Magneto) All the X-Men have done is use their awesome power to protect a world that hates and fears them. Behold their reward. What must we do to be good enough?
BARBER: That was good.
WELDON: Yeah, that's true. But see, I - so I came to this series, right? And I saw the first couple episodes before premiered, and I just thought - I was kind of in Andrew's camp. I was like, this is a nostalgia grab. It's just pretending the last 27 years hasn't happened. I've since learned that that was very intentional on the writers' part. But there was also - you know, there was a lot of things. There was the departure of the writer, which you can read all kinds of speculation about. Nothing's confirmed, but that just seemed odd. And then you will inevitably start picking up online chatter. Suddenly "X-Men" is - has a subtext, you know? Suddenly they're ramming down our throats this social commentary. And it's like, they've been ramming since 1963.
LIMBONG: Yeah.
WELDON: What are you talking about?
BARBER: Yeah, literally that's their theme.
HADADI: That's their whole point.
WELDON: That is their organizing principle.
HADADI: And it is literally in every other "X-Men" adaptation.
BARBER: Yeah.
WELDON: Absolutely. But we are circling back now because the show is a hit creatively and critically, but mostly because of Episode 5. Episode 5 goes hard. My interest in the show, kind of like y'all, it's a linear growth curve.
BARBER: Yeah, yeah.
WELDON: And that episode, Episode 5, the one where the mutant island nation of Genosha is brutally attacked.
BARBER: And they were talking so much for so long, and I was like, there's going to be a big battle.
WELDON: There was a lot of talking. You're absolutely right. I should have seen it coming. But man, I didn't. And I don't have these things you humans call emotions. But I was pumping my fist during this last episode. There's a moment with Gambit and a motorcycle. I was like, whoo (ph).
BARBER: Yeah.
WELDON: Again, this is kind of, you know, mutant cartoony action, but it's not the kind you expect 'cause it comes with a body count, a real body count. What'd you guys make of it?
HADADI: I mean, this whole episode is the extremes of what "X-Men" has always done really well.
LIMBONG: Before the massacre on Genosha - I just want to make sure it doesn't get overshadowed - the moment where Scott Summers, you know, Cyclops, gets caught kissing Madelyne Pryor...
BARBER: Oh, gross.
LIMBONG: ...And then Jean comes in...
WELDON: We should say Madelyne Pryor is, of course, Jean Grey's clone.
(LAUGHTER)
WELDON: It's like we're describing...
LIMBONG: Yeah.
WELDON: ..."One Life To Live," but, you know...
HADADI: But that's what I was going to say. It's always been very soapy, and I think that's...
WELDON: Yeah.
HADADI: ...Fine. I mean, I prefer that than, you know, another grimdark superhero who is weighed down by the weight of saving the world. Like, these people - you know, I can't say this word on air, but these people get down. And that's fine.
(LAUGHTER)
WELDON: Yep.
HADADI: But, Andrew, so you were into the kiss?
LIMBONG: Yes. But I think I was - you know, comics try to do the big splashy, like, a lot of people died, this is a whole tenor changing event all the time. Glen, I'm sure, like, every comic, you know, has, like, their like - and even "X-Men" the comics themselves are guilty of this. Like...
WELDON: Nothing will never be the same.
LIMBONG: Yeah, exactly. But I do feel like the kissing and canoodling and dancing and relationship stuff makes the violent stuff work and work quickly and work very efficiently for all of its power. I think that's where - 'cause we are only five episodes in. They could have very much saved this for season finale ender.
BARBER: Oh, yeah.
LIMBONG: It was so effective, I think, because of all the soapy material.
BARBER: I mean, I will say as a tween, Gambit was very important to me, you know, and the soapiness.
(LAUGHTER)
HADADI: Yeah.
(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "X-MEN '97")
AJ LOCASCIO: (As Gambit) You never wanted to make things official. I respected that. I played the swamp rat.
LENORE ZANN: (As Rogue) And I played your chere.
WELDON: Nobody who says chere as much as he does can be completely straight. We all agree on that, right?
LIMBONG: Yeah.
WELDON: Do you guys have any favorite little touches? You know, like Gambit's crop top...
BARBER: Yes.
WELDON: ...Went viral, the mohawk on storm, Magneto rocking some crazy Audrey Hepburn opera gloves like he just stepped out of "Breakfast At Tiffany's" - I'm here for that. The way in the opening credits, they don't stay static. They reflect shifts in the show. Jean Grey gets a ponytail for a very important reason that - like, you're meant to be, like, the Leonardo DiCaprio meme where he's pointing at the screen. I was pointing at the screen, at the ponytail.
BARBER: Oh, yeah.
WELDON: Any little touches?
BARBER: I will say, as a kid, I remember - I love Jubilee 'cause, like, I was like, an Asian, yay, like me, like, finally. Like, I was just like - I loved it. She is this foster kid, and she's lost. And, you know, she doesn't like being a mutant. And, you know, her parents are kind of, you know, wary. I was, you know, just younger than her, and I just really identified with her.
WELDON: Sure.
HADADI: What I respect about Episode 5 going so big is I have been in the middle of a "Buffy" rewatch. In Season 2, when the big turn with Angel happens...
WELDON: Right.
HADADI: ...It is the middle of the season. This used to be a - things could happen in episodes that are not just the premiere or the finale. And that happened in "X-Men" all the time.
BARBER: Yeah.
HADADI: There were story arcs that were divided within the season. There were climaxes. There were highs. There were lows. I really appreciate that each episode runs through an insane amount of plot that keeps me engaged, and that's fun. And I also like that there's some experimentation in terms of...
WELDON: Right.
HADADI: ...Where could one season of television go? From purely episodic way, I just really appreciate that structure giving us something different from what a lot of TV does, and maybe being more similar with the comics, as you said, in terms of arcs and how they're structured.
WELDON: Yeah, the writer has gone online and said that episode five he sees as a kind of a harrowing, sudden, growing up moment. He compares it to the Pulse shooting. He compares it to 9/11. And he intentionally structured the season so that the first few episodes would seem incredibly nostalgic and same-as and just more the same. And what happens in episode five is meant to shake them out of their complacency and make them realize how dangerous the world is in a way that is more resonant than, oh, there's a big robot after us. This is about, the world is against us. And that is meant to be a wake-up call. Andrew, do you have anything specific in the show that resonates with you?
LIMBONG: Two things - I guess they're sort of the same thing - is how little Wolverine gets...
WELDON: Yeah.
LIMBONG: ...Some airtime, which...
WELDON: Yeah.
LIMBONG: ...Is in a great way.
BARBER: Right?
LIMBONG: He's such a character. He's such a guy. Like, there could have been, like, Weapon X stuff and all this drama and - but he takes a backseat, and instead, I really like how they have Cyclops really take center stage. And then in episode five, after the big massacre happens, there's a scene where - that feels very familiar, actually, where everyone's watching TV, and Scott runs downstairs and just asks, like, how many, right? And I feel like that's such a - we're about to get, like, badass Scott, I feel like. We're about to get, like, OG, like, you know, real (laughter) hardcore Scott coming up. And I think that's an interesting way to give, you know, props to a character that - I never picked him in "Marvel vs. Capcom 2." He's not like the most...
BARBER: Yeah.
LIMBONG: ...Charismatic dude.
WELDON: (Laughter). Famously, yeah.
LIMBONG: But they're really giving him his shine. Yeah.
BARBER: I will say that was another little line that I loved. I think it was in the first episode, and the captured mutant says, are you one of the good guys? And he's like, oh, yeah. And he's just, like, Cyclops - you know, Scott is, like, the quintessential...
WELDON: Boy Scout (ph), yeah.
BARBER: ...Good guy. But that scene in the first episode where he just, like, lands, you know, out of the plane and just kills it - like, I agree. I never gave him his props.
WELDON: Well, I never gave Jubilee her props. I always kind of - you know, I have watched the original series since when I kind of got over myself a little bit. And I just never liked - you know what it is? It's the jorts. Now, I understand the jorts are...
BARBER: Kids love jorts. My kid loves them right now.
LIMBONG: So do 35-year-olds. Thirty-five-year-olds love jorts, too.
WELDON: This is the thing. And so because I was never a fan of Jubilee, my favorite moment is the one where a character mentions to Jubilee that the only reason they're reaching out to her is that Dazzler passed on the gig.
(LAUGHTER)
WELDON: And I think that is, like, story checks out. Dazzler rules.
HADADI: Agree. Yeah.
WELDON: Jubilee drools.
BARBER: Ouch.
HADADI: The thing about the nostalgia of it all is we've seen bad nostalgia, right? I mean, I think we could...
LIMBONG: Yeah.
HADADI: ...Argue that the latest "Star Wars" movies devolve into very bad nostalgia, nostalgia that does not serve a purpose past, like you said, eat it up. Eat up the slop. But this isn't. I don't think that this is purely meant to placate us. I do think episode five, Scott saying to the reporter, you don't...
BARBER: Oh, yeah.
HADADI: ...Get it because you're human. Like, there are so many things there that I think are pushing us back to the core X-Men idea of, like, what do we owe each other as a society, and how quickly do we turn clannish and tribalistic and bad? Being forced to think about that in your 30s or 40s or whatever age you're watching this show is helpful. But I do think being reminded of that, that the core of this series is not just, like, Wolverine's claws or whatever else we want to say - it is this idea of, like, reassessing what makes a society and a civilization. I think that's important.
BARBER: Sometimes, people like things because it's good. And, like, sometimes nostalgia is good because it's good. But, sometimes, it's not.
HADADI: Sure.
LIMBONG: Yeah.
BARBER: "Star Trek" is good because it's good. Like, it has a good theme. It has a good, like, line through it of social justice. And I think it's the same with "X-Men." And if you have somebody who's making it who loves it, what more can you ask for?
HADADI: I think it's, like, growing with your audience. And it feels like this series has done that. I mean, we haven't seen the back half of the season. Maybe it collapses. Who can say?
BARBER: (Laughter). Who can say?
HADADI: But episode five at least feels bold enough to support whatever storytelling comes next. I'm willing to give it the rest of season one to say good show good definitively. But for now, good show good.
WELDON: Because we can see what this show could have done, which is merely kill off a bunch of characters and say, look - shocking. What it did was it built that massacre...
HADADI: Yeah.
WELDON: ...Into the infrastructure of the show, the bones of the X-Men itself, the bones that go back to 1963.
LIMBONG: Well, I was watching this, and I was curious for the general watcher if this show would even make any sense if you don't - I don't know - know who the Morlocks are, you know, the little mutants that live in the sewers and are all outcast or even further outcast. If I were to show this to my wife, would she be like, uh-huh? Who? Who's Emma Frost? Like, who's Sebastian Shaw? Yeah.
HADADI: But in episode two, there is a scene where Magneto saves them...
BARBER: Right.
HADADI: ...From the human separatists.
BARBER: Right.
HADADI: And he refers to them as Morlocks. And then later on in the episode...
BARBER: Oh.
HADADI: ...He's like, I'm giving them a new home in Genosha.
BARBER: Oh, you're right. You're right.
HADADI: So I do think, you know, like, some of us are going into this with more knowledge from the original series or from the comics or whatever. But I do think the show does its work in terms of contextualizing most of its characters and their motivations.
WELDON: Yep. Well, I mean, you heard what we think, right? I mean, I think Gambit's crop top said it best. The show rocks. We want to know what you think about "X-Men '97." Find us at facebook.com/pchh. That brings us to the end of our show. Roxana Hadadi, Andrew Limbong, Regina Barber, this was a great discussion. Thank you so much for being here.
LIMBONG: Thank you.
HADADI: Thank you.
BARBER: Thank you.
WELDON: We want to take a moment to thank our POP CULTURE HAPPY HOUR+ subscribers. We appreciate you so much for showing your support of NPR. If you have not yet signed up and want to show your support and listen to the show without a single, solitary sponsor break, head over to plus.npr.org/happyhour or visit the link in our show notes. This episode was produced by Hafsa Fathima and edited by Mike Katzif. Our supervising producer is Jessica Reedy. And Hello Come In provides our theme music. Thank you for listening to POP CULTURE HAPPY HOUR from NPR. I'm Glen Weldon, and we'll see you all tomorrow.
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