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Starmer tw don't have the right to use women only toilets

383 replies

lcakethereforeIam · 02/07/2024 00:58

It's a headline in the Telegraph. Unfortunately when I archive it it goes to an article about that twat Ashworth refusing to answer. So, I've screenshot the headline

Starmer tw don't have the right to use women only toilets
OP posts:
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duc748 · 02/07/2024 01:06

He's floundering, isn't he?

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waltzingparrot · 02/07/2024 01:06

Do you believe that he believes that?

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Seriestwo · 02/07/2024 01:06

He’s read that book about the scottish women or he’s frit or he’s lazy?

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Morwenscapacioussleeves · 02/07/2024 01:17
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UtopiaPlanitia · 02/07/2024 01:23

Morwen, that's the most straightforward sentence I think I've EVER heard attributed to Keir Starmer - the journalist must have edited out the sighing and 'uhmming' 😈

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ifIwerenotanandroid · 02/07/2024 01:24

Thank you, the Times. Now ask him about changing rooms. Then sports. Then... you get the idea.

Will be interesting to see responses to this from the other side.

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OpizpuHeuvHiyo · 02/07/2024 01:30

It would be better if such a statement came coupled with a commitment that a labour government won't be legislating to give them (and therefore any man who wants to too because it's impossible to tell the difference) such a right.

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IwantToRetire · 02/07/2024 01:30

Was just coming to post this, and yes it is confusing because basically the Telegraph have re- written an article that was:

Labour frontbencher refuses to answer transgender lavatory question
Jonathan Ashworth joins list of senior members unable to explain party’s single-sex spaces policy
And this can be read at https://archive.ph/sM0fx Which is interesting in itself as it indicates the Labour Party is NOT speaking with one voice.
Starmer: Trans women don’t have the right to use women-only toiletsLabour leader says biological males who have transitioned should not enter areas for women amid confusion over party’s trans policy
The re-written article still using the web link for the above article (cear from the url (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/07/01/labour-frontbencher-refuses-to-answer-trans-toilet-question/)

can be read here <a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20240701225923/www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/07/01/labour-frontbencher-refuses-to-answer-trans-toilet-question" rel="nofollow noindex" target="_blank">https://web.archive.org/web/20240701225923/www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/07/01/labour-frontbencher-refuses-to-answer-trans-toilet-question/

I would have thought the telegraph would have kept the first article to illustrate that Starmer and the Labour party are all over the place.

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UtopiaPlanitia · 02/07/2024 01:32

lcakethereforeIam · 02/07/2024 00:58

It's a headline in the Telegraph. Unfortunately when I archive it it goes to an article about that twat Ashworth refusing to answer. So, I've screenshot the headline

Text from The Telegraph article (dated 1 July 10.55pm):

Starmer: Trans women don’t have the right to use women-only toilets
Labour leader says biological males who have transitioned should not enter areas for women amid confusion over party’s trans policy

Sir Keir Starmer has said transgender women do not have a right to access female-only spaces, amid confusion over Labour’s stance on which lavatories trans people should use.

The Labour leader said biological males who have legally transitioned should not enter areas designated for women, insisting those spaces “need to be protected”.
His comments came after two of his frontbenchers refused to say whether someone with a penis should be allowed to use women’s lavatories.
In an interview with The Times, Sir Keir was presented with a question posed by author JK Rowling on whether people who are born male and have gone through a legal transition process should be able to use female-only spaces.
Writing on X, formerly Twitter, the Harry Potter author, who has said she would “struggle to support” Labour if he does not change his stance on trans rights, asked: “Do biological males with gender recognition certificates have the right to enter women-only spaces? It’s a simple yes/no question.”

In response, Sir Keir said: “No. They don’t have that right. They shouldn’t. That’s why I’ve always said biological women’s spaces need to be protected.”
The Labour leader added that he hoped a meeting with the author, who has been outspoken on trans issues, could be organised.

While Sir Keir did not mention lavatories specifically, his comments suggest a hardening of Labour’s stance on the issue, after two shadow cabinet ministers refused to say whether trans women who have not undergone gender reassignment surgery should be allowed to use women’s facilities.
On Monday, Jonathan Ashworth, the shadow paymaster general, was asked by LBC’s Nick Ferrari whether he would want a trans woman with a penis to use a male or female lavatory.

The Labour frontbencher replied: “I’m not a toilet monitor.” When pressed to clarify his stance, he said: “We don’t have police officers outside or guards outside every set of [lavatories]… Matters like that are for individual establishments.”
His comments came a week after Bridget Phillipson, the shadow education secretary, refused eight times to answer the same question.
She had previously suggested that transgender women should be able to use the women’s lavatory.
Last week Sir Keir clashed with a radio caller who accused him of speaking “absolute twaddle” over access to single-sex spaces.
A BBC Radio 5 Live listener called Jane said the Labour leader was “not listening to biological women when they say they don’t want to share a space with biological men”.

The trans debate has become a key battleground in the election, with the Tories accusing Labour of planning to “dilute women’s rights” by introducing self-ID “by the back door”.

To get a GRC trans people have to receive sign-off by a panel of doctors and lawyers and provide two years of evidence that they have been living in their new gender.
Labour has said it is planning to “simplify” the process, which it has branded “degrading and torturous” for trans people, by downgrading both requirements.
The party has said it would keep the requirement for a medical diagnosis of gender dysphoria but that this could now be provided by a single clinician.
It would also downgrade the requirement for evidence to a two-year “reflection” period, which could mean a medical diagnosis is all that is needed for a certificate.
Under the plans there is no requirement for people to have either had gender reassignment surgery, or be planning to do so, in order to legally change their gender.
Elsewhere in The Times interview, Sir Keir also said people would feel “better off” by the end of Labour’s first term if his party wins the election.

He said: “I have led and changed Labour. If we get the opportunity, we will govern as we have changed Labour, which is to take the country from the pretty poor place that it’s in at the moment and to seriously change it, so that by the end of the first term of a Labour government people will be able to say, ‘do you know what, I am better off’ — materially better off in the sense of ‘more money in my pocket’.

“But also better off in the sense that my public services are working again. Schools are what I would expect from them. I have a belief in the future for my children. That requires a serious plan with a strategy, which is what we set out in our manifesto.”

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ifIwerenotanandroid · 02/07/2024 01:34

Yay, Jane!

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Gormenghastly · 02/07/2024 01:34

you are aware that the tabloids have political bias?

yawn.

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duc748 · 02/07/2024 01:35

I think Jane and JKR have done great work here.

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IwantToRetire · 02/07/2024 01:35

Sorry about strange formating in my post.

Hope it makes sense.

Basically first article about Labour members not know about whether TW could be in women's toilets.https://archive.ph/sM0fx

Later changed to say Starmer say TW should not use women's toilets. <a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20240701225923/www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/07/01/labour-frontbencher-refuses-to-answer-trans-toilet-question" rel="nofollow noindex" target="_blank">https://web.archive.org/web/20240701225923/www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/07/01/labour-frontbencher-refuses-to-answer-trans-toilet-question/

Starmer: Trans women don’t have the right to use women-only toilets

Labour leader says biological males who have transitioned should not enter areas for women amid confusion over party’s trans policy

https://web.archive.org/web/20240701225923/https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/07/01/labour-frontbencher-refuses-to-answer-trans-toilet-question

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UtopiaPlanitia · 02/07/2024 01:37

Gormenghastly · 02/07/2024 01:34

you are aware that the tabloids have political bias?

yawn.

I think the The Telegraph is more commonly considered a broadsheet rather than a tabloid.

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Morwenscapacioussleeves · 02/07/2024 01:54

The response from Stonewall et al will tell us if this is real...

my reading is that KS didn't say women's toilets but "women's spaces"

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UtopiaPlanitia · 02/07/2024 01:55

Here's an archived version of The TImes story that's got the original quote from Starmer about JKR:

Keir Starmer: I want people to say Labour has made them better off
https://archive.ph/qCkld#selection-2449.0-2734.0

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AlisonDonut · 02/07/2024 02:00

To get a GRC trans people have to receive sign-off by a panel of doctors and lawyers and provide two years of evidence that they have been living in their new gender.

Didn't the man who wrote this guidance in SOC5 admit in the last few days that he made this up and had no idea what 'evidence based medicine' even was?

Thread:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5109200-wpath-again-full-document-disclosure-via-legal-challenge?reply=136446037

WPATH again: full document disclosure via legal challenge | Mumsnet

Can WPATH survive this?

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5109200-wpath-again-full-document-disclosure-via-legal-challenge?reply=136446037

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FictionalCharacter · 02/07/2024 02:11

OpizpuHeuvHiyo · 02/07/2024 01:30

It would be better if such a statement came coupled with a commitment that a labour government won't be legislating to give them (and therefore any man who wants to too because it's impossible to tell the difference) such a right.

Indeed. My first thought was that they’d do exactly that.
He’s squirmed and flip-flopped so much on these issues it’s impossible to trust anything he says.
We shouldn’t forget either that the Labour Party is much more than Starmer. Angela Rayner is a very much more dedicated TRA, as are many of the MPs like Lammy and Butler.

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UtopiaPlanitia · 02/07/2024 02:16

AlisonDonut, yes Steven Levine was giving a history of WPATH SoC at a seminar in France and he did say that WPATH had no concept of evidence-based medicine when he made his suggestions to them about referrals from doctors for treatment.

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miri1985 · 02/07/2024 02:54

His statement is very clear but I still don't trust anything he said.
I would not put it past him to declare that any trans woman whos had hormones is now a "biological" woman or just do a flip flop on the issue.

Also there are other people in the party who clearly see womens rights as an annoyance and only ever want to talk about trans rights. I don't think Starmer has any great ideological adherance to TWAW but similarly I don't think he cares about womens privacy (or womens opinions in general on this issue) and sees this whole thing as an annoyance

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AlisonDonut · 02/07/2024 03:29

Labour has said it is planning to “simplify” the process, which it has branded “degrading and torturous'

Isn't this process already simplified from the process put in place by...The Labour Party?

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Underthinker · 02/07/2024 05:49

While Sir Keir did not mention lavatories specifically, his comments suggest a hardening of Labour’s stance on the issue,

I've always interpreted Starmer's remarks on this to mean he does believe in some female only spaces (where female does not include males with grcs) but those spaces are a very narrow set, and don't include places like toilets and changing rooms. Nothing here changes my view on that. I think the headline writer has inferred a meaning not intended by KS.

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Floisme · 02/07/2024 06:01

What a muddle, it's almost as if the law about single sex spaces isn't clear. But it can't be that because if it was, he'd be promising to fix it if elected, surely?

Maybe they should call up Tony Blair again.

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Doingmybest12 · 02/07/2024 06:22

Who is protecting women's spaces as a party and how else are they supporting woman and families? Genuine question, if we aren't voting Labour who else will form the next government?

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