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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Gettingmadderallthetime · 02/07/2024 07:31

This was an impressive video. Wondered about the conference and the organisers. This may interest people on here.

'The Observatory La Petite Sirène (OPS) is an association created in 2021 by a multi-disciplinary professional gathering - associating medical doctors, psychologists, lawyers, psychoanalysts and teachers - with the aim to warn childcare professionals about the impact of social networks and militancy on children development.
​
Herein, questions are being raised up concerning all the practices resulting from these influences, especially those leading to long lasting and even irreversible consequences on physical and psychological health of growing individuals, such as children and teenagers.
​
The initial work of the Observatory is focused on 'gender dysphoria'.

They seem to have coined a phrase (fleetingly referred to at the end of the conference) of Pubertal Sexualism Anxiety (may have the second word incorrect).

I felt that they were spot on about WPATH. Organizations have relied their trans health experts who have relied on WPATH. Hence in Switzerland and Germany 27 bodies working/advising in this area decided not to do their own looking-at-evidence work as WPATH was doing this already. (Except we now know from the Alabama documents disclosed to the court that WPATH were not only not doing this but trying to stop others from showing what the evidence actually looks like - acting as a gatekeeper. This is explosive. I think it will explode WPATH. I wonder what impact this will have on the Amy Hamm judgement? (Her nursing college was all about blindly following WPATH guideance).

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Thingybob · 02/07/2024 10:33

Thanks for the linked video Signalbox, I've been trying to get my head around what is going on in Alabama. I've even been trying to read through some of these documents

https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/63252064/eknes-tucker-v-marshall/?page=1

In particular the Motion For Summary Judgement and the Response posted yesterday

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.almd.77755/gov.uscourts.almd.77755.619.0.pdf

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.almd.77755/gov.uscourts.almd.77755.627.0.pdf

Sadly I don't think the case will be an easy slam dunk against the TRAs and WPATH as the chasm between the two sides is so vast it will depend on which side the Judge sits on.

After all this time the two sides can't even agree on a definition of 'sex'. I despair.

Motion

"The sex of a person is the biological state of being female or male, based
on sex organs, chromosomes, and endogenous hormone profiles, and is genetically encoded into a person at the moment of conception, and it cannot be changed"

Response

(This) "definition of “sex” oversimplifies a complicated biological concept that incorporates multiple components that may not be congruent with each other, including internal reproductive organs, external genitalia, chromosomes, hormones, gender identity (which has a biological foundation with neuroanatomic, genetic, and hormonal variation), and secondary sex characteristics"

Boe v. Marshall, 2:22-cv-00184 - CourtListener.com

Docket for Boe v. Marshall, 2:22-cv-00184 — Brought to you by Free Law Project, a non-profit dedicated to creating high quality open legal information.

https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/63252064/eknes-tucker-v-marshall?page=1

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AmaryllisNightAndDay · 02/07/2024 10:45

For some reason whenever I see "Admiral Rachel Levine" I hear a bit of "HMS Pinafore":

When I was a lad I served a term
As office boy to an Attorney's firm.
I cleaned the windows and I swept the floor.
And I polished up the handle of the big front door.
(Yes he polished up the handle of the big front door!)

I polished up that handle so carefully
That now I am the Ruler of the Queen's Navy!
(He polished that handle so carefully
That now he is the Ruler of the Queen's Navy!)

There is also a verse:

I grew so rich that I was sent
By a pocket borough into Parliament.
I always voted at my party's call,
And I never thought of thinking for myself at all.
(No he never thought of thinking for himself at all.)
I thought so little, they rewarded me,
By making me the Ruler of the Queen's Navy!

although it's everyone else who failed to think and just did what Admiral Levine ordered.

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AmaryllisNightAndDay · 02/07/2024 11:05

Sorry - in case that connection seems weird - Admiral Rachel Levine is the govt official who interfered with the Johns Hopkins studies. It wasn't just WPATH. I'm not sure if that came up in the OP's video, I was also watching the latest "Gender A Wider Lens" about it.

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RapidOnsetGenderCritic · 02/07/2024 12:28

IwantToRetire · 01/07/2024 17:23

Not sure if this link has been published on any thread.

It is from last week https://can-sg.org/2024/06/28/letter-to-who-expressing-new-concerns-about-influence-of-wpath-on-transgender-guideline-development/

It’s a pity they get the full name of WPATH wrong! It’s “Association” not “Organisation”.

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Signalbox · 03/07/2024 08:11

Gettingmadderallthetime · 02/07/2024 07:31

This was an impressive video. Wondered about the conference and the organisers. This may interest people on here.

'The Observatory La Petite Sirène (OPS) is an association created in 2021 by a multi-disciplinary professional gathering - associating medical doctors, psychologists, lawyers, psychoanalysts and teachers - with the aim to warn childcare professionals about the impact of social networks and militancy on children development.
​
Herein, questions are being raised up concerning all the practices resulting from these influences, especially those leading to long lasting and even irreversible consequences on physical and psychological health of growing individuals, such as children and teenagers.
​
The initial work of the Observatory is focused on 'gender dysphoria'.

They seem to have coined a phrase (fleetingly referred to at the end of the conference) of Pubertal Sexualism Anxiety (may have the second word incorrect).

I felt that they were spot on about WPATH. Organizations have relied their trans health experts who have relied on WPATH. Hence in Switzerland and Germany 27 bodies working/advising in this area decided not to do their own looking-at-evidence work as WPATH was doing this already. (Except we now know from the Alabama documents disclosed to the court that WPATH were not only not doing this but trying to stop others from showing what the evidence actually looks like - acting as a gatekeeper. This is explosive. I think it will explode WPATH. I wonder what impact this will have on the Amy Hamm judgement? (Her nursing college was all about blindly following WPATH guideance).

Organizations have relied their trans health experts who have relied on WPATH. Hence in Switzerland and Germany 27 bodies working/ advising in this area decided not to do their own looking-at-evidence work as WPATH was doing this already. (Except we now know from the Alabama documents disclosed to the court that WPATH were not only not doing this but trying to stop others from showing what the evidence actually looks like - acting as a gatekeeper. This is explosive.

It should be explosive. So much has rested on WPATH being the experts. The NHS treatment model, Helen Webberley’s whole case was that she followed “international best practice”.

I wonder what impact this will have on the Amy Hamm judgement?

Sadly I doubt it would have any impact since the Alabama case is ongoing and fitness to practice panels can only consider the evidence from the experts in the hearing. Perhaps if there is an appeal.

OP posts:
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DrBlackbird · 05/07/2024 19:55

.

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UtopiaPlanitia · 06/07/2024 00:02

Bloody hell, Signal. That is quite shocking info - thanks for posting links.

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RethinkingLife · 06/07/2024 10:44

I wish I could be startled by that Economist piece. However, it's explained a lot about Cochrane's relative silence���

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Signalbox · 06/07/2024 11:11

RethinkingLife · 06/07/2024 10:44

I wish I could be startled by that Economist piece. However, it's explained a lot about Cochrane's relative silence…

How so? I've often wondered why Cochrane haven't committed to undertaking a sytematic review linked to PBs or cross-sex hormones. Are Cochrane linked to the John's Hopkins Evidence Based Practice Centre?

OP posts:
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RethinkingLife · 06/07/2024 11:55

Cochrane (Collaboration) is effectively how you assemble teams to perform systematic reviews and meta-analyses.

I've likewise wondered why there isn't a published review. The academic's problems and the funders' failure to honour the usual obligation to use the provided work explains it. This is an untenable position. However, by the time the legal wrangles are resolved, the review will be so out of date that it would be deprecated if published or be delayed for several years while it's updated. (That's a guess, I've not seen an evidence map or bibliometric analysis so I'm not familiar with the volume of recent, relevant publications and other research (much of which might be grey literature).)

In August the wpath executive committee wrote to Ms Robinson that wpath had “many concerns” about these papers, and that it was implementing a new policy in which wpath would have authority to influence the epc team’s output—including the power to nip papers in the bud on the basis of their conclusions.

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Signalbox · 06/07/2024 17:54
OP posts:
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Datun · 06/07/2024 18:42

Signalbox · 05/07/2024 22:27

Article in the economist…

https://www.economist.com/united-states/2024/06/27/research-into-trans-medicine-has-been-manipulated

Archive…
https://archive.ph/nLxcP

From the article

Research must be “thoroughly scrutinised and reviewed to ensure that publication does not negatively affect the provision of transgender health care in the broadest sense,”

Absolutely blatant.

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Signalbox · 06/07/2024 19:24

Datun · 06/07/2024 18:42

From the article

Research must be “thoroughly scrutinised and reviewed to ensure that publication does not negatively affect the provision of transgender health care in the broadest sense,”

Absolutely blatant.

Show quote history

It’s so thoroughly medieval. I can’t understand how their reputation isn’t completely in tatters.

OP posts:
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Datun · 06/07/2024 19:38

Signalbox · 06/07/2024 19:24

It’s so thoroughly medieval. I can’t understand how their reputation isn’t completely in tatters.

Show quote history

I think it's coming. Too many people have got the bit between their teeth.

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Omlettes · 07/07/2024 04:34

Gettingmadderallthetime · 02/07/2024 07:31

This was an impressive video. Wondered about the conference and the organisers. This may interest people on here.

'The Observatory La Petite Sirène (OPS) is an association created in 2021 by a multi-disciplinary professional gathering - associating medical doctors, psychologists, lawyers, psychoanalysts and teachers - with the aim to warn childcare professionals about the impact of social networks and militancy on children development.
​
Herein, questions are being raised up concerning all the practices resulting from these influences, especially those leading to long lasting and even irreversible consequences on physical and psychological health of growing individuals, such as children and teenagers.
​
The initial work of the Observatory is focused on 'gender dysphoria'.

They seem to have coined a phrase (fleetingly referred to at the end of the conference) of Pubertal Sexualism Anxiety (may have the second word incorrect).

I felt that they were spot on about WPATH. Organizations have relied their trans health experts who have relied on WPATH. Hence in Switzerland and Germany 27 bodies working/advising in this area decided not to do their own looking-at-evidence work as WPATH was doing this already. (Except we now know from the Alabama documents disclosed to the court that WPATH were not only not doing this but trying to stop others from showing what the evidence actually looks like - acting as a gatekeeper. This is explosive. I think it will explode WPATH. I wonder what impact this will have on the Amy Hamm judgement? (Her nursing college was all about blindly following WPATH guideance).

Fascinating, thank you.

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Kucinghitam · 07/07/2024 06:11

Signalbox · 06/07/2024 19:24

It’s so thoroughly medieval. I can’t understand how their reputation isn’t completely in tatters.

Show quote history

Because you can't reason somebody out of a position they didn't reason themselves in to in the first place.

The Righteous believers will just ignore everything that doesn't fit into their picture, and nothing will make them see.

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DrBlackbird · 15/07/2024 16:15

Kucinghitam · 07/07/2024 06:11

Because you can't reason somebody out of a position they didn't reason themselves in to in the first place.

The Righteous believers will just ignore everything that doesn't fit into their picture, and nothing will make them see.

Show quote history

Plus, lawsuits. Especially in the US. On the one hand, they can never admit to doing wrong at risk of being sued.

Not even if you accidentally pronged a car. You never apologise as it’s taken as an admission of guilt. See also Purdue Pharmaceutical. Insane the chances they had to stop with their aggressive marketing but didn’t.

On the other hand, one day there will finally be an avalanche of lawsuits, which can’t be ignored. There has got to be a tipping point when the lawsuits start to accumulate. Soon hopefully.

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