Should the school insist on this?

thequickbrowndog · 06/07/2024 10:17

Sorry, just to add, the school said in the parents meeting that there will be no movement between forms

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Ohdosodoffdear · 06/07/2024 10:18

You absolutely can't "insist" no. You could possibly ask very nicely, but as they've already laid out their stall I imagine it'll be a hard no.

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noblegiraffe · 06/07/2024 10:18

Did they not ask for names of friends for when deciding forms? It is usual in secondary to try to place them with at least one friend.

I would certainly bring it up with them even if they have told you not to.

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TeaandHobnobs · 06/07/2024 10:22

See it as an opportunity for your DD to branch out and make new friends; she can still meet up with her existing friends at break and lunch, but to be honest, existing primary friendships don’t often stay as strong into secondary school.
Try to encourage her to focus not on what she is NOT getting, but instead the positives of meeting new people. Kids do it every year - my own DS started Y7 this year not knowing a single child in his new school, and he has developed a lovely little group of friends.

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DoublePeonies · 06/07/2024 10:29

Yes, you are wrong to insist.
You can try asking, but equally you could find the positives - break and lunch she can meet up with her friends from primary, lessons she can work hard meet new people.
Take a deep breath. It is exceedingly likely to be fine.

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Maireas · 06/07/2024 10:31

Please don't insist on this. They've said no movement for a reason.
She will make friends with others in her class, probably some will have no-one from their primary school at all. Just leave it be.

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ChangeyTime · 06/07/2024 10:37

My DD moves up in September.

She's the only child from her primary who got into the school she's going to.

It's really not a rarity with selective schools.

Has your DD had her induction day yet? Mine has and already made some new friends she's excited to see in September (who also moved up along and don't know anyone else)

The same will be the case for your DD. You're wrong to 'insist' when you've been told there's no movement.

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LittleMonks11 · 06/07/2024 10:38

You absolutely cannot insist. You could ask very very nicely for her to be moved into the same 'half' but be prepared for a no, sorry and start talking positively with her about things. Get her to make plans with her buddies to meet up at breaks, lunch and clubs to ease her anxiety. Lessons are lessons anyway and not a chance to socialise. She will hopefully make new friends.

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MrsAvocet · 06/07/2024 10:47

It does seem a bit strange - all the secondary schools I know of seem to place new starters in a form with at least one friend from primary. However, if my children are anything to go by, they usually make new friends very quickly.
It's one of the advantages of moving to a bigger school in fact. I know it's daunting as my children were at a primary school with less than 50 pupils in total, so going to secondary with forms of 30 was a huge change. But the wider pool of children meant that they made friends who had the same interests etc rather than because they just happened to be the same age and live in the same village. Don't get me wrong, they didn't fall out with their primary friends and stop speaking to them or anything, and indeed are still friendly with quite a few of them as adults, but they all quickly expanded their friendship groups and met friends they had more in common with.
I do agree that having one person you know at the beginning helps ease the nerves, so it wouldn't be unreasonable to raise your concerns, but I guess as long as every new pupil is in the same boat and your DD isn't going into a class with a large number of kids who already know each other it's ok. If the school do it this way every year they presumably feel it works.
In all likelihood though, whether your DD has a primary schoolmate in her new form or not, she'll have a completely new friendship group by half term so try not to worry too much.

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notsureicandoitagain · 06/07/2024 11:17

You can talk to the school about how she is feeling about this (and try not to project your feelings here, be positive about the change). There may be good reasons why the school have done this as it's usually done with consideration for the pupils they will have starting, after all schools also want a good transition.

But you can't insist. The school will have oversight of the whole year group and if they feel that class for your DD is the best fit (considering needs of ALL pupils), then they will most likely stick with that. If schools moved pupils everytime a parent complained it would become a logistical nightmare.

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Flowerypaintings · 06/07/2024 11:30

Happened to us with Ds. The school also said no movement but we then had a meeting with the HT and she agreed to move him to the class with his friends. There were 12 classes of 30 in the year, from his primary only 5 including him were going - 4 were put in one form and he was put in a different one the other side of the year ! We insisted he was changed. Like you say MH is important

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Willsean · 06/07/2024 11:51

You can ask, but definitely don't say "Surely her mental health is more important than their rules?"

That's so ignorant, as if the rules are there to be awkward instead of for a good reason. The reasons might not always be obvious to a child or seem necessary on an individual level, but a school is about everyone as a collective.

If you don't teach your child to respect the school rules then you'll have massive problems with her at school.

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Maireas · 06/07/2024 11:53

Flowerypaintings · 06/07/2024 11:30

Happened to us with Ds. The school also said no movement but we then had a meeting with the HT and she agreed to move him to the class with his friends. There were 12 classes of 30 in the year, from his primary only 5 including him were going - 4 were put in one form and he was put in a different one the other side of the year ! We insisted he was changed. Like you say MH is important

I have no idea how fragile he is, but do you think he wouldn't have made friends at all?
We get complaints like this every year, but every single year, children make new friends in their teaching or tutor groups.

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thequickbrowndog · 06/07/2024 12:19

Children do make new friends, of course they do. But why make them more anxious about an already huge change in their life by splitting them from their friends? Makes no sense to me.

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thequickbrowndog · 06/07/2024 12:21

Willsean · 06/07/2024 11:51

You can ask, but definitely don't say "Surely her mental health is more important than their rules?"

That's so ignorant, as if the rules are there to be awkward instead of for a good reason. The reasons might not always be obvious to a child or seem necessary on an individual level, but a school is about everyone as a collective.

If you don't teach your child to respect the school rules then you'll have massive problems with her at school.

I said that on mumsnet, not to the school. Why be so narky??

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noblegiraffe · 06/07/2024 12:21

One thing to remember is that something that looks obviously wrong to you as the parent of your child is something that could easily be overlooked by a pastoral leader trying to create classes out of 200-odd kids. So it could be an error rather than deliberate.

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thequickbrowndog · 06/07/2024 12:22

ChangeyTime · 06/07/2024 10:37

My DD moves up in September.

She's the only child from her primary who got into the school she's going to.

It's really not a rarity with selective schools.

Has your DD had her induction day yet? Mine has and already made some new friends she's excited to see in September (who also moved up along and don't know anyone else)

The same will be the case for your DD. You're wrong to 'insist' when you've been told there's no movement.

She struggled on her moving up day. She was the only child from her ethnic group in the form, where as the other forms are more mixed. She struggled with this

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thequickbrowndog · 06/07/2024 12:23

noblegiraffe · 06/07/2024 12:21

One thing to remember is that something that looks obviously wrong to you as the parent of your child is something that could easily be overlooked by a pastoral leader trying to create classes out of 200-odd kids. So it could be an error rather than deliberate.

Yes definitely. I can imagine the selection process is quite random rather than hand picking the form groups

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Maireas · 06/07/2024 12:24

thequickbrowndog · 06/07/2024 12:19

Children do make new friends, of course they do. But why make them more anxious about an already huge change in their life by splitting them from their friends? Makes no sense to me.

Because mostly children will make new friends with the people they sit with, learn with, and have lunch with. There are very rare exceptions to this. We get many parental complaints about this, even to the extent of threatening ofsted, the local paper, taking the child out, suing us, you name it. It takes hours of my time because grouping is a logistical nightmare anyway and it's never perfect. We have to focus on children with additional needs, first and foremost, but we can't cater to everyone in a non selective state school. I can't speak for these grammars of course. If your child is exceptionally anxious or whatever, it will be taken into account. However, please support your child to at least feel confident enough to try.

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thequickbrowndog · 06/07/2024 12:25

Maireas · 06/07/2024 10:31

Please don't insist on this. They've said no movement for a reason.
She will make friends with others in her class, probably some will have no-one from their primary school at all. Just leave it be.

Thanks for the 'advice' but no!

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Maireas · 06/07/2024 12:25

thequickbrowndog · 06/07/2024 12:25

Thanks for the 'advice' but no!

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Ok. Go for it. Good luck.

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Ionacat · 06/07/2024 12:27

You can’t insist, but you can contact whoever is in charge of transition to explain the situation and ask if it is possible. If they say no, then ask for what support is available for transition as she is anxious and worried after the move up day. Schools often say no movement so as not to open the floodgates, however they should be absolutely be supporting with transition.

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thequickbrowndog · 06/07/2024 12:31

Ionacat · 06/07/2024 12:27

You can’t insist, but you can contact whoever is in charge of transition to explain the situation and ask if it is possible. If they say no, then ask for what support is available for transition as she is anxious and worried after the move up day. Schools often say no movement so as not to open the floodgates, however they should be absolutely be supporting with transition.

Yes I agree with this

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IrritableVowel · 06/07/2024 12:31

thequickbrowndog · 06/07/2024 12:21

I said that on mumsnet, not to the school. Why be so narky??

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Your OP says you think that their rules aren't as important than your child's MH, and a reason why they should accommodate moving her.

It isn't a wild assumption that you would say that to the school.

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Maireas · 06/07/2024 12:32

Yes, @Ionacat , that's generally what we do too. Consider exceptional circumstances.

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Secondary education

Should the school insist on this?