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Latymer Upper or Godolphin?

41 replies

pinkgaia · 14/02/2024 16:04

Hello everyone

We got an offer for both Latymer Upper and Godolphin and we're finding hard to decide

Is there anyone here attending these schools who want to give me some insight?

Pro and cons?

Reputation wise (in view of university) which school fo you think is better?

Many thanks 😊

OP posts:
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SA3rules · 14/02/2024 16:09

Main difference is (obviously) Co-ed vs single sex and that G&L does IB which you may like. G&L is also smaller.
Also I guess you need to consider LUs GCSE reforms.
In terms of Unis etc I doubt it makes any difference at all.
Quite a few families have DCs at both.

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SA3rules · 14/02/2024 16:11

What does your DD think? I'd go to the offer holder events and then decide.

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Coronateachingagain · 14/02/2024 17:01

I would study the university destinations data and the latest trends in more detail. Not sure what you will find there, but I think the profiles may be quite different.

Latymer is quite liberal and for the more resilient gregarious child. While overall they have excellent results, they also have a tail of liberal children pursuing less traditional university degrees (or none). While you are ok or not is not the point, the point is more the information and how this reflects on your child or even to understand the differences in student body profiles.

So I would study the tail of destinations for both schools, as a way to look further under the bonnet. Don't look at Oxbridge or Ivy League, look at outliers, and the middle of the pack too.

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MrsEverdeen · 15/02/2024 11:52

I would think more about best fit for your DD over next few years as there’s often movement at 6th form.

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Coronateachingagain · 15/02/2024 12:28

MrsEverdeen · 15/02/2024 11:52

I would think more about best fit for your DD over next few years as there’s often movement at 6th form.

Edited

For Latymer you have now to think of all the way through - it may be easy to move without GCSEs but who knows

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Tiredmumofthreekids · 15/02/2024 12:41

Coronateachingagain · 15/02/2024 12:28

For Latymer you have now to think of all the way through - it may be easy to move without GCSEs but who knows

Show quote history

it is not, its still possible to move, tons of discussions on this on Mumsnet. also one can ring the school/attend their open days/offer holders day where they will happily explain.

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Tiredmumofthreekids · 15/02/2024 12:47

Coronateachingagain · 14/02/2024 17:01

I would study the university destinations data and the latest trends in more detail. Not sure what you will find there, but I think the profiles may be quite different.

Latymer is quite liberal and for the more resilient gregarious child. While overall they have excellent results, they also have a tail of liberal children pursuing less traditional university degrees (or none). While you are ok or not is not the point, the point is more the information and how this reflects on your child or even to understand the differences in student body profiles.

So I would study the tail of destinations for both schools, as a way to look further under the bonnet. Don't look at Oxbridge or Ivy League, look at outliers, and the middle of the pack too.

May I know where you get the data/stats from regarding "a number of liberal children in LU and a number of children taking up less traditional degrees/not going into higher education"?

I've got completely different stats on LU graduate destinations and degrees.

I am not having a go at you, but just want to make sure it's not another school-bashing post during the crucial period people are making choices

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booksgalore123 · 15/02/2024 12:57

Coronateachingagain · 15/02/2024 12:28

For Latymer you have now to think of all the way through - it may be easy to move without GCSEs but who knows

Show quote history

But if you move for 6th form, you're offered a place based on predicted grades even with GCSE's, so I'm not sure how much difference it would make?

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booksgalore123 · 15/02/2024 13:00

Tiredmumofthreekids · 15/02/2024 12:47

May I know where you get the data/stats from regarding "a number of liberal children in LU and a number of children taking up less traditional degrees/not going into higher education"?

I've got completely different stats on LU graduate destinations and degrees.

I am not having a go at you, but just want to make sure it's not another school-bashing post during the crucial period people are making choices

Show quote history

This is not my experience, based on having 3 kids attend LU. In fact, I would say very much the opposite, unless I'm completely missing out on something.

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Tiredmumofthreekids · 15/02/2024 13:12

booksgalore123 · 15/02/2024 13:00

This is not my experience, based on having 3 kids attend LU. In fact, I would say very much the opposite, unless I'm completely missing out on something.

Show quote history

do you refer to the original post from @Coronateachingagain who shared negative information about the school? or my post where I'm claiming I've only heard positive information about the school.
sorry it wasn't clear from your message.
Ive got different stats from what Coronateaching shared so I just want to understand where did the poster got the info from

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booksgalore123 · 15/02/2024 13:25

Tiredmumofthreekids · 15/02/2024 13:12

do you refer to the original post from @Coronateachingagain who shared negative information about the school? or my post where I'm claiming I've only heard positive information about the school.
sorry it wasn't clear from your message.
Ive got different stats from what Coronateaching shared so I just want to understand where did the poster got the info from

Edited
Show quote history

Sorry - I meant @Coronateachingagain's assertions. Anecdotally, my kids have always been surrounded by fairly traditionally high-achieving classmates. I can't think of any off the top of my head who haven't followed a traditional educational path post-LU.

Adding - in my experience, the school doesn't really seem to accept kids who are looking for a very alternative path. There might be a few exceptionally talented kids who go off to pursue drama or music post-secondary, but they're not the norm.

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matrixxx · 15/02/2024 16:27

If it's any use, I've had DC go through both these schools. In my experience and from what I could see of DC peers at both schools through the years, G&L is a happier school environment than LU. It's calmer and the pastoral care is excellent. At LU, it felt like a campus vibe and a lot of minor bullying / not so nice behaviour went under the radar. at G&L they seem more across this type of thing and the girls just seem more settled and supportive of each other. Of course, there is the odd exception, but socially, its not as fractious as LU. I often wondered why - hard to put your finger on really.

Teaching is excellent in both schools. LU has the pool and sports centre on site, but G&L has netball / hockey pitches on site, meaning they can play everyday if they want. Drama much more inclusive at G&L. Trips are better at LU due to Activities Week every June where they all go off in various week long trips. G&L has a new sixth form centre. Easier to get involved in things at G&L and I feel they celebrate individual achievements more.

LU is not offering GCSEs to this incoming Year 7, which may or may not be appealing. They also do 3 A-levels as standard throughout (which I think is preferable, as it's all unis ask for and better to get three top grades than 4 not so great maybe). At G&L they start with 4, but can drop one in second year (not sure what the point of that is really as no AS qualification anymore). EPQ also pushed in both schools. G&L also offer IB.

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matrixxx · 15/02/2024 16:29

Also, I'm not sure what the pp means by 'alternative paths' at LU? They all go to uni, bar a few that may go to drama school or something like that.

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Jonqul · 15/02/2024 17:06

Have one at L and one who's left. Friends with dc at G&L - they're both excellent schools, it comes down to a preference for co-ed vs single sex. A handful of girls joined L in the sixth form from G&L who were bullied at G&L or didn't fit in with what they perceived as a mean girls' vibe. A friend with a dd at GL showed me an email from the school that really shocked me in its lack of concern for a big issue, having said that I see another poster thinks L has more issues in that direction, most of it comes down to individual kids who may have had issues at any school. I'd say both schools are very on top of things pastorally, certainly in my experience, I can't fault L for how responsive they've been. You can play netball on site at L and the sports hall and pool are fab. Also don't understand alternative paths, virtually everyone goes on to an excellemt uni - maybe two a year to drama school, one to Sandhurst. In terms of gcses - the W London schools will all drop them soon and if you wanted to move from one to another at sixth form that wouldn't be an issue

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Coronateachingagain · 15/02/2024 21:03

@booksgalore123 depends what you mean by "traditional educational path". Like pursuing a very singular fashion degree in Paris - is that traditional? Or not pursuing a degree at all.
Maybe this is influencing the entrance process and as you say, the paths of the new cohorts will be more "traditional".

I am not being negative at all. Hopefully not all of these kids will want to go to Oxbridge (if the parents let them). And yes by alternative as pp said - drama school, Sandhurst, art degrees, fashion degrees, or something else.

No kids doing 11+ by the way!

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Jonqul · 15/02/2024 22:00

sounds like you know two very specific examples @Coronateachingagain . That’s so far from the norm to suggest others is simply wrong

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booksgalore123 · 16/02/2024 00:43

Coronateachingagain · 15/02/2024 21:03

@booksgalore123 depends what you mean by "traditional educational path". Like pursuing a very singular fashion degree in Paris - is that traditional? Or not pursuing a degree at all.
Maybe this is influencing the entrance process and as you say, the paths of the new cohorts will be more "traditional".

I am not being negative at all. Hopefully not all of these kids will want to go to Oxbridge (if the parents let them). And yes by alternative as pp said - drama school, Sandhurst, art degrees, fashion degrees, or something else.

No kids doing 11+ by the way!

Maybe this is influencing the entrance process and as you say, the paths of the new cohorts will be more "traditional".

I'm not quite sure I understand what you're saying - what is influencing the entrance process? And I'm not sure you understand what I was saying.

I have three children who went through LU, 2 boys, 1 girl. They have now finished and gone on to university. Between them, my kids had pretty wide friendship groups, ranging from the drama kids to the sporty kids to the studious kids and all but maybe 2 of the probably 150 LU kids I've known have gone on to traditional universities.

Latymer is quite liberal and for the more resilient gregarious child. While overall they have excellent results, they also have a tail of liberal children pursuing less traditional university degrees (or none).

This is seriously odd. What exactly is a 'tail of liberal children'? I'm not quite sure where you're getting your information from, but it's not reflective of the school my kids went to. I actually didn't find LU particularly liberal at all and wouldn't have minded if it had been a bit more left field, but it isn't. It's a relatively traditional elite London private school and, as such, is highly committed to producing top university candidates.

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Coronateachingagain · 16/02/2024 06:47

Wonder why people get so defensive as no need to defend the turf for such an excellent school. The school is not a fit for all children though. It suits the resilient type that can deal with a bit of freedom and liberalism. I think the entrance process does a good job of reflecting those who won't fit though.
Also not a bad thing if your child wants to study drama, or fashion, those bright and so inclined still have a place there. Tiger parents may not like it, but good to have a mix of people pursuing a variety of careers.

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redscarlett76 · 16/02/2024 08:01

@Coronateachingagain , if you spent a bit of time on the Latymer Upper website going through the leaver destinations and degree subjects for 2023 you would see your opinion is out of date.

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Jonqul · 16/02/2024 09:17

@Coronateachingagain I don’t think people are getting defensive particularly, it’s just their baffled at your opinion which doesn’t seem to have any base in reality.

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booksgalore123 · 16/02/2024 11:20

Coronateachingagain · 16/02/2024 06:47

Wonder why people get so defensive as no need to defend the turf for such an excellent school. The school is not a fit for all children though. It suits the resilient type that can deal with a bit of freedom and liberalism. I think the entrance process does a good job of reflecting those who won't fit though.
Also not a bad thing if your child wants to study drama, or fashion, those bright and so inclined still have a place there. Tiger parents may not like it, but good to have a mix of people pursuing a variety of careers.

No school is a fit for all children.

I'm not defensive at all. I paid them a whack of money and sent my kids there, so we were clearly happy enough, but over the educational course of three kids, I certainly had my likes and dislikes, positive and negatives. I would not class all three of my children as equally confident or resilient, but all of them found their way there, with large friendship groups, pretty happily.

Freedom and liberalism were not in abundance - what does that even mean in this context? Yes, there were plays and music and art exhibits, but overall It was a traditional school, traditionally timetabled, teaching the kids to a traditional curriculum to do well on a traditional set of exams. The parents as a group, had the expectation their children would be offered good uni places, and there are a lot of bursary students, who, in my experience, are quite serious about making the most of their education and tend to do very well.

I personally would have preferred considerably more freedom and liberalism. If we'd been closer geographically, I probably would have chosen King Alfred, actually, as I'm more a proponent of a looser style of education and firmly believe children should be encouraged to follow more alternative tracks if that's what best suit them.

I'm actually not particularly advocating one school over the other. I've got no horse in this race. My point was just that your comments don't remotely reflect the reality I've experienced.

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Coronateachingagain · 16/02/2024 16:10

@booksgalore123 apart from disagreeing with me and saying that the school is not that liberal or progressive, I can't find any other relevant or interesting points. (King Alfred? What's the point of comparing a school that is not even an alternative, miles behind academically and miles away in terms of ethos) Maybe you can give more actual insight of your likes and dislikes, pros and cons as you say, instead of just "disagreeing". (So I can also get the chance to relativise any tit bit of day you volunteer 😀)
I stand by what I said before - there is a lot of low noise going on at Latymer which a more resilient child is better suited for. If you choose among these excellent schools with excellent teaching and other opportunities, this may be something to consider.
This school was a boys school not long ago, a lot of water has gone under the bridge, but children are still left to sort it out by themselves a bit more than at other places. And yeah, a more liberal feeling too.

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booksgalore123 · 16/02/2024 16:55

Coronateachingagain · 16/02/2024 16:10

@booksgalore123 apart from disagreeing with me and saying that the school is not that liberal or progressive, I can't find any other relevant or interesting points. (King Alfred? What's the point of comparing a school that is not even an alternative, miles behind academically and miles away in terms of ethos) Maybe you can give more actual insight of your likes and dislikes, pros and cons as you say, instead of just "disagreeing". (So I can also get the chance to relativise any tit bit of day you volunteer 😀)
I stand by what I said before - there is a lot of low noise going on at Latymer which a more resilient child is better suited for. If you choose among these excellent schools with excellent teaching and other opportunities, this may be something to consider.
This school was a boys school not long ago, a lot of water has gone under the bridge, but children are still left to sort it out by themselves a bit more than at other places. And yeah, a more liberal feeling too.

Well I can't find any relevant or interesting points in your post either, so perhaps we should call it even?

Your only points seem to be hearsay, third hand rumours and vague hints. WTF is 'a liberal feeling' what exactly are 'a tail of liberal children'? And what does this mean - 'this is influencing the entrance process'? Just say what you mean, how about that?

And maybe state your actual firsthand experience with the school (my money's on none). As I've said, I don't have any particular interest in convincing an unknown poster to choose LU, I have neither vested interest in the school nor the OP (or you), but I do have relatively extensive personal experience with the school.

As to your initial point about that big old 'tail of liberal children' going off to 'pursue less traditional university degrees (or none), my memory is that there were roughly 165 kids per year group in the upper school, then there are around 30 new joiners in lower sixth, so year groups of around 200. Here is a list of leavers' and post-leavers' (kids who took gap years) destinations and degree subjects, which adds up to... just over 200. And as to, Don't look at Oxbridge or Ivy League, look at outliers, and the middle of the pack too. I just did. Plenty of middle of the pack.
https://www.latymer-upper.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/Leavers-and-Post-Leavers-Destinations-2023-1.pdf

Incidentally, just to insert a bit of fact here, girls have been admitted to sixth form since the nineties, and the school became co-ed from year 7 in 2004. So we're 20 years and two heads removed from it being single sex (3 if you count Peter Winter under whom it became fully coed). One of mine joined LU from an all boys school. I can assure you there is no feeling of children being left to sort it out for themselves. Whether they have the best pastoral care in all of London, I don't know. Maybe not, but certainly miles better than the all boys school.

@pinkgaia

I'm sorry if this has veered off-track. I haven't had a child at Godolphin but have lots of friends who have, and know lots of really lovely girls from there. I think both schools are good, neither is perfect, and it largely comes down to personal preference and whether or not you mind about coed vs single sex. Good luck with the choice and I hope your DD has a fabulous time wherever you choose.

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Coronateachingagain · 16/02/2024 21:08

This is not a competition 😅 and I haven't claimed to hold all relevant information either. Obviously the results are excellent. For both schools. So you need to kick the can in a different way and see what you see. But you don't get the point. You are taking yourself too seriously, and you are incapable of holding a conversation that does not go exactly your way on absolutely all fronts.
Hopefully I am wrong!
First year 7 girls cohort was 20 years you said. Means first GCSE exams for all through girls like 13 years ago. Not that I care or relevant, but see, you could look at your same data point in different ways. I am too old to think 13 or 20 years for that matter is a long time ago😀

Also, just counted 204 destinations (if I counted well) vs your roughly 196 places. Gap year perhaps? What about the ones that did not pursue university, are they counted in this list? (Not that I care but again, just an example on how to dig into the data and not take anything face value)

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Jonqul · 16/02/2024 22:09

Theres a small cohort who like to - shall we say - say peculiar things on 11+ threads. I’m sure those with questions can tell the difference between people who’ve experience of specific schools and people who clearly don’t. OP or anyone else making up their mind, I’m happy to answer squestiond about LU by DM.

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