Usually, at the weekends.

Orangeandlemonsquash · 09/05/2024 08:34

What was the question?

There's no verb in the answer she gave. Maybe that was the problem. It wasn't a complete sentence.

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CaptainCarrotsBigSword · 09/05/2024 08:54

Sorry, I haven't made it clear. The task she was given was to come up with a question to accompany the answer "Usually, at the weekends."

DD wrote "Do you go swimming" as the hypothetical question. And was told it was wrong. Apparently "When do you go swimming?" would have been correct but I would argue that the comma after usually wouldn't work then.

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CaptainCarrotsBigSword · 09/05/2024 13:30

Bumping for any lunch break pedants...

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Orangeandlemonsquash · 09/05/2024 13:32

I see. Sorry, I had misunderstood.

I agree with you about the comma not working in the 'correct' example.
I don't think her question was quite right either though.

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Orangeandlemonsquash · 09/05/2024 13:41

Maybe something like 'Does your mum always take you swimming?' would have worked better?

The second part of the anawer is then unnecessary of course , but it does sound like something you'd say in normal conversation.

Sorry, I'm not much help!

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CaptainCarrotsBigSword · 09/05/2024 14:26

None of it really works properly / sounds right to me which is frustrating!

I can't think of a good example of a question that would be answered well with "Usually, at the weekends." Which doesn't help!

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AgentProvocateur · 09/05/2024 14:36

Do you go out for dinner every week?

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CaptainCarrotsBigSword · 09/05/2024 15:07

Hmm, yes I suppose that would work.

Do you go out for dinner every week?

Usually, at the weekends.

I dunno, it still sounds wrong to me but I don't have the grammatical nitty gritty knowledge to articulate why I think it's wrong. Or maybe not wrong, but clumsy.

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KomproMatilda · 09/05/2024 15:10

It is very hard to think of a question where the comma would be required in the answer! @Orangeandlemonsquash’s example is good:

'Does your mum always take you swimming?'

‘Usually, at the weekends. During the week my aunt takes me.’

The comma there is making space for the qualification that comes in the second sentence. But I don’t know how to explain that grammatically.

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CaptainCarrotsBigSword · 09/05/2024 22:35

Evening pedantry bump!

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ItsSerious · 10/05/2024 10:35

I think your daughter's question is correct and the teacher's question is incorrect due to the comma. The comma changes the meaning of the answer. Most people seem to really struggle with spelling and grammar!

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Houseplanter · 10/05/2024 10:38

I'd have said weekend rather than weekends

(Missing the point I know)

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ValueAddedTaxonomy · 10/05/2024 10:52

Apparently "When do you go swimming?" would have been correct but I would argue that the comma after usually wouldn't work then.

Completely agree with this. The comma indicates that the word "Usually" on its own is a full answer to the question, and that what follows is simply an elaboration of that answer.
But "Usually" on its own is not an appropriate answer to the question "When do you go swimming?" It could be a legit answer to a question that specified a set of circumstances, such as "Do you go swimming at the weekend?" or "Do you go swimming on hot days?" But without those specifications, "Usually" as a full answer implies the possibility that someone might go swimming always - ie all the time in every circumstance.

It isn't really a matter of grammar. It is about the wider functionality of speech. Best to just let your daughter in on the fact that people, including teachers, often get these things wrong

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Heartfullofcheese · 10/05/2024 10:56

I think the problem here is that we have to teach them that there is always, ALWAYS a comma after a fronted adverbial. Obviously actual writers don’t do this. In this case, the answer given by the teacher is just a horrible non sentence and I think your daughter’s answer is correct. I also don’t understand what that homework is teaching, grammar wise.
Year 6 teacher.

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dragonscannotswim · 10/05/2024 11:06

What is the learning point of this? What are kids meant to be learning?? Seems a bit daft.

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dragonscannotswim · 10/05/2024 11:07

The answer is an odd one. 'Usually, at the weekend' would be more idiomatic. Or you'd say something like 'Most weekends'. Comma placement is odd too.

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LuluBlakey1 · 10/05/2024 11:16

It is such a pointless task. Teaching English to children through de-contextualised tasks is a waste of time. What happens is, they learn how to answer the questions but can't actually write well. All primary schools devote a great deal of time to this and it drives me mad. Children arrive in secondary school able to complete grammar tests but many can't write effectively. 6 months later they can't complete the grammar tests either because it is not effective learning- it is designed to meet a government measure of children's ability and it's rubbish.

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CaptainCarrotsBigSword · 10/05/2024 11:52

Heartfullofcheese · 10/05/2024 10:56

I think the problem here is that we have to teach them that there is always, ALWAYS a comma after a fronted adverbial. Obviously actual writers don’t do this. In this case, the answer given by the teacher is just a horrible non sentence and I think your daughter’s answer is correct. I also don’t understand what that homework is teaching, grammar wise.
Year 6 teacher.

Yes, I think this is the issue - the rule of 'follow this with a comma' has been followed even though it doesn't work in this sentence.

I fully agree with you all on it being useless! I taught English at secondary for over a decade, and I do explain to DD that this isn't the sort of knowledge she will need once she gets to year 7. But it's annoying when she gets told her answers are wrong and I can't explain why I think that the teacher / resource (because they are premade worksheets, just printed off) is the one in the wrong!

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CaptainCarrotsBigSword · 10/05/2024 11:54

dragonscannotswim · 10/05/2024 11:06

What is the learning point of this? What are kids meant to be learning?? Seems a bit daft.

No point. Other than marking English is subjective and difficult, but marking grammar is (in theory) easy, so the powers that be decided to have a massive focus on teacher grammar at primary school so that they could be tested on SPaG in their SATS.

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KomproMatilda · 10/05/2024 12:16

I’ve earned (parts of) my living as a writer and have no clue what a fronted adverbial might be. I doubt my 1960s / 70s teachers had even heard of them.

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Heartfullofcheese · 10/05/2024 12:48

They are made up. Basically an adverbial phrase or often a prepositional phrase at the start of a sentence. The powers that be decreed that they should have a comma. I teach mine that they should jump through the hoop but pint out that it’s a choice- sometimes you don’t want the pace slowed.

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Usually, at the weekends.