Medicine 2025 entry

Patchworksack · 29/03/2023 13:41

Hi. No advice to give but joining for tips. My son is in Y11 and hoping to study medicine. He is doing Chemistry, Biology, Maths and Further Maths next year.

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maybemedmum · 29/03/2023 14:03

Hi! Also in for mutual support and tips rather than bringing any useful advice.

I have found following the 2023 thread useful/eye-opening/terrifying about what a complex and gruelling process it is.

DD is also Y11. She hasn't decided yet between the classic Biology/Chemistry/Maths (+French) A Level combination or the IB (and therefore hasn't decided where she'll be studying next year). She has a part-time, customer-facing job, which I think is good experience, and is talking about organising some volunteering, but hasn't actually done so yet.

I'm finding it hard to know how much to encourage/push/support and how much to leave her to it!

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NoNotHimTheOtherOne · 29/03/2023 15:25

Break it down into more manageable bits. Encourage your son/daughter to research:

the variety of medical courses and approaches to selection; start with https://www.medschools.ac.uk/studying-medicine before looking at any other sites
UCAT - what it is and how it works (see https://www.ucat.ac.uk), and how different medical schools use the results (much more difficult to find, so select a small number of medical schools of interest first)
interviews (go back to https://www.medschools.ac.uk/studying-medicine as a starting point): think about what you will need to be able to do and talk about in an interview so you can undertake appropriate experiences
professional responsibilities: see https://www.gmc-uk.org/education/standards-guidance-and-curricula/guidance/student-professionalism-and-ftp/achieving-good-medical-practice

And don't get hung up on medical work experience. Very few - if any - medical schools require it. They will expect you to know something about what doctors do, how the healthcare system works, etc., but there are more (and better) ways of acquiring this than by shadowing a doctor. They also expect you to be able to provide evidence of important personal characteristics: effective communication, team working, ability to handle responsibility, ability to deal with challenges/setbacks, ability to understand what someone else is experiencing (empathy), awareness of ethical issues related to medicine, etc...

Studying medicine | Medical Schools Council

It all starts with an application to study medicine. It is important that a career in medicine is open to anyone who has the right attributes to be a doctor.

https://www.medschools.ac.uk/studying-medicine

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Destiny123 · 29/03/2023 15:44

As a current Dr I'd recommend looking at being a PA

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maybemedmum · 29/03/2023 16:55

Thanks @NoNotHimTheOtherOne , that's a really helpful list.

@Destiny123 Is that because of the current situation or a more general/long-term thing? It definitely concerns me that the NHS is in a very challenging situation (DH is non-clinical NHS and he and his peers all think it is as bad as it has been over their 25-year careers). The current set-up for junior doctors is awful. I guess the hope is that things will improve. The doctors I know are mostly glad they went into it, but it definitely looks like a difficult thing to do.

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Patchworksack · 29/03/2023 20:43

We have lots of doctors in wider family and they’ve all told him not to do it. I know as a teen that only made me more determined so just saying we’ll support him whatever he decides.

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Destiny123 · 29/03/2023 22:40

maybemedmum · 29/03/2023 16:55

Thanks @NoNotHimTheOtherOne , that's a really helpful list.

@Destiny123 Is that because of the current situation or a more general/long-term thing? It definitely concerns me that the NHS is in a very challenging situation (DH is non-clinical NHS and he and his peers all think it is as bad as it has been over their 25-year careers). The current set-up for junior doctors is awful. I guess the hope is that things will improve. The doctors I know are mostly glad they went into it, but it definitely looks like a difficult thing to do.

50k salary for 9-5 job no oncalls, someone else takes responsibility but still the perks.

I'd do it if wasn't for medicine being on their banned list of acceptable medically related entrance degrees (think they know we'd all jump if allowed

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mumsneedwine · 30/03/2023 06:46

Think of it as a hurdle race.

First hurdle in year 11 - get the best GCSEs you can

2nd hurdle in year 12 - choose the courses you like the structure of (there are different styles of teaching), short list a few and go to open days.

3rd hurdle at end of year 12 - ace the UCAT

4th - get the best predicted grades you can

5th - apply strategically based on your stats. This is not as difficult as it can seem.

6th - get those interviews & be confident

7th - get the grades !

A lot (most) medical students graduation now seem to be planning to move abroad asap. It's not just a UK career. Think those PAs will be running the show in a few years as no one else will be left.

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FreedaDonkey · 30/03/2023 13:45

There was a brilliant post on wiwikau yesterday from a medic parent, like a step by step guide on how to give yourself the best chance.

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mumsneedwine · 30/03/2023 13:49

Applying where you are most likely to get an interview is the important bit. Won't know that until you have your UCAT, but can rule some out before then based on GCSEs. Unless they are perfect.

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maybemedmum · 31/03/2023 10:24

Thanks for the tips @mumsneedwine and @FreedaDonkey.

Putting no pressure on DD about GCSEs as she has consistently got 9s in all the rounds of mocks and will feel a sense of failure if she drops any grades anyway. Hopefully she will get good enough results for that not to be a limiting factor for her at least.

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mumsneedwine · 01/04/2023 17:51

@maybemedmum don't need all 9s. As long as got lots of 7s you'll be fine at majority of places. Some still score GCSEs so if they are fab then these become a good choice. But UCAT is the king I'm afraid.

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mybeautifuloak · 01/04/2023 18:07

Destiny123 · 29/03/2023 15:44

As a current Dr I'd recommend looking at being a PA

PA? Patent attorney? Personal Assistant?

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aslkde · 01/04/2023 18:12

Physician's assistant?

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mumsneedwine · 01/04/2023 18:13

Physicians Associate. New post in UK. Better paid than doctors for a few years and treated a lot better. But can't prescribe or order scans. Causing a few issues in some hospitals I believe.

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mumsneedwine · 01/04/2023 18:13

Assistant !!

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Destiny123 · 04/04/2023 09:42

mumsneedwine · 01/04/2023 18:13

Physicians Associate. New post in UK. Better paid than doctors for a few years and treated a lot better. But can't prescribe or order scans. Causing a few issues in some hospitals I believe.

Yep. They aren't new though they've been around since I was at uni at least so 2012 ish but becoming far more popular now that drs are emigrating and not returning or leaving medicine for good. They're now taking prescribing courses aspart of their training so won't be long at all before they prescribe as we do, they can order scans providing not radiating scans (ct xray etc) but won't be long I don't think till that will be allowed too.

Because they're permanent staff in a hospital unlike us rotating in and moving on every 2-6m of training (least 9y) they often get favouristised for procedures and teaching, and go home at 5 regardless of if work is done on the ward and the drs are staying hours late for free, so there is some resentment there. But yeah I'd have done it if known about it prior to med school, so I wasn't still commuting round the country with v little say in where I live, forcing my partner to relocate humdreds of miles and having to constantly rent as dont know where the application system will be placing me next and commuting 5am trains etc etc etc

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Destiny123 · 04/04/2023 09:45

https://www.swansea.ac.uk/nhs-careers/physician-associate/

https://www.healthcareers.nhs.uk/explore-roles/medical-associate-professions/roles-medical-associate-professions/physician-associate

Become a Physician Associate - Swansea University

Become an allied member of the Clinical Team as a Physician Associate, find out more about a career as a Physician Associate.

https://www.swansea.ac.uk/nhs-careers/physician-associate

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NewMinouMinou · 17/04/2023 17:11

Hi, guys! DS is in Y11 and is planning chemistry, biology and psychology A levels. He was dead set on German as his third but as a non-native speaker he could be doing himself out of a potential A*.

Nice to meet you all.
I'm utterly terrified, btw...

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maybemedmum · 25/06/2023 11:04

Hello!

Resurrecting this thread to ask some questions about Open Days. DD and I are thinking of trying to go to a couple in the autumn (of Y12). But having read the previous medicine threads and had the importance of strategic application made clear, I'm not sure how to decide where to go!

DD will likely have excellent GCSE results, so we won't be ruling out any of the ones that score GCSEs I don't think. But obviously we won't know how she'll do with UCAT etc yet.

For us it is complicated slightly by living in the back of beyond - two hours from our nearest university (Plymouth). I don't know if we should just go to the close(ish!) ones to gather some information, or if we should be trying to prioritise places DD thinks she might want to go (all rather further afield, though pretty unsure at this stage!).

I would be interested to know what other prospective 2025 applicants are going to do and also interested to hear what people who are out the other side gained from early open days and how you approached them.

Thank you!

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mumsneedwine · 25/06/2023 11:47

@maybemedmum for now, I'd go to the nearest one and just chat to students about doing the course. Where are you though if Plymouth is nearest and 2 hours away ? End of Cornwall ? Is so then Exeter might be a good look too as they use Truro hospital as a placement.
Concentrate on GCSEs for now, and a bit of volunteering (anywhere will do). Once those grades are in have a look at each Unis selection criteria (NOT admissions) and if all 9s choose some that score GCSEs (currently ones like Notts, Belfast, Bham, Kings - not an exhaustive list). If not, and loads of 7 & 8s, or even the odd 6, do not despair. Still loads of options.
As an example, Sheffield don't care what your grades are as long as you have 7 7s and are predicted AAA. It doesn't matter how much more than that you have, it makes no difference. You pass the hurdle and it's down to UCAT score if you get an interview.
Whereas Nottingham score GCSEs, score UCAT (double for verbal section) and score SJT. Highest combined points get an interview.
It's a funny old business but happy to help if anyone has any questions. Been doing it for a while now for students at my school.
But be aware that current 5th years are all pretty much looking at an exit strategy as pay and conditions are so poor. I don't know one incoming F1 who is not planning on leaving either the NHS or the country in the next few years (my own DD included 😡). Be v v aware what they are getting themselves in to.

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maybemedmum · 25/06/2023 11:59

Thanks @mumsneedwine.
Yes, we're at the bottom of Cornwall - has its advantages, but access to open days isn't one of them!
DD not keen on Exeter at all, specifically because of the Truro placement. The sixth form she'll attend works with their admissions/outreach people a lot so I think she'll get to see Exeter at some point anyway probably!
I think we should probably just go to Plymouth and maybe Bristol for now and have a chat with some people. (Honestly, I am half-hoping she will go off the idea for the reasons you've outlined - of course there's the hope that the junior doctors' strikes and a change of government might help in due course, but it seems like a very difficult way to spend your twenties to me!)

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mumsneedwine · 25/06/2023 12:07

🤞🤞🤞 for the strikes having some effect. But going to take a whole lot of other things now to stop the exodus. Not enough training places for all the new medical students (so if they increase places further it will not solve anything).

However, if still keen then Bristol a good option too (again, all down to UCAT, and it needs to be v high).

Let's hope someone works out soon that, yes the NHS needs mire doctors. So keeping the ones we've already trained would be a good place to start. They hate striking, and can't really afford to.

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imush · 17/07/2023 03:43

My DD is about to start Yr12. Live abroad, finished IGCSES and starting IB.
She's never been interested in medicine before, always though of doing psychology but she's decided that actually medicine is what she wants to do. I'm trying to put her off as it seems quite a brutal and tough choice but obviously will support her in her final decision.

But there are a few issues.

First, I'm not even sure what status she will have. Super frustrated that fees and application status are rolled into one for medicine. We were prepared for fees but not that DD will be discriminated against in applications as an international student even though she is British and has full right to work and live in the UK (which is what she itnends to do). Potentially we might get home status as absence is temporary (we are on non-immigrant visas where we live and DD has no independent right to live here aside from being my dependent and, for complicated reasons, tax is actually paid back to UK through my organization ) but it's not a given.

Second, she is scared to do Chemistry HL. Right now her choices are HL Bio, Psych and English and SL Chemistry, French and Maths. THe SL Chem won't help her in applications it seems but I think still a good idea to have some post GCSE chem knowledge. We looked and there are about 10 unis which will accept her without HL Chem (namely Kent, Newcastle, Lancaster, UEA, Southampton, Sheffield, Manchester, Plymouth and Leciester). I think she's got a point that HL Chem is notoriously difficult and hard to get a good grade in and she is thinking that her current combo will allow her a higher grade - but it will sharply decrease her pool of potential unis, both in the UK and abroad. Everyone else I see applyind to Med School has Chem A level or HL.

I think potentially DD would be a great doctor. She's smart and very good with all kinds of people. She's always be a bit lazy and laidback about school which is why I'm surprised she's thinking of such a hard route but she is lucky to be capable of high grades when she puts her mind to it. She's also been doing voluntary work with children in a slum close to where we live for a while now. Not medical, I know, but I hope shows her ability to connect with people and work in a team.

Be very grateful if anyone has any advice for us! We do know medics but not in the UK.

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NoNotHimTheOtherOne · 17/07/2023 08:13

@imush - The Office for Students (acting for the Department of Health & Social Care) imposes strict caps on international medical student numbers. A small number of medical schools aren't allowed to take students with international fees status at all; most others are capped at 7.5% of their 2016 intake (so a maximum of 15 international students for a medical school whose total capped intake in 2016 was 200).

There are a few exceptions: medical schools that initially only took international students but now also take some home students (Aston, UCLan), that still only take international students (Brunel) or are fully private (Buckingham).

The medical schools are not discriminating. They are following rules. They don't make the rules.

You've missed at least one off your list of medical schools that she could apply to without HL chemistry, so it might be worth going though the entry requirements booklet again.

I'm worried about this: " She's always be a bit lazy and laidback about school which is why I'm surprised she's thinking of such a hard route but she is [likely] to be capable of high grades when she puts her mind to it." Can she put her mind to it for five years? And it's not just about high grades: it's about engaging with the full range of learning activities and clinical opportunities to develop skills and professional attributes assessed through OSCEs and portfolios.

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