Report: Apple approves Epic Games Store on iOS in Europe

European iOS users will see the alternative app store launch sometime soon.

See full article...

 

[kgb999-again]

It's not a choice when each company only lists their apps as available on their own store. And now we'll get an even worse experience than PC gamers have when gaming, having to download lots of game launchers because each company wants to have their own... but instead of having them all available on Steam, you can only get them from each of the launchers separately.

Currently the entire iOS ecosystem literally can't play Fortnite because Apple decided to ban Fortnite from the iOS platform. I would argue having an app available exclusively through third party app marketplaces is an objectively more robust consumer option than just not being able to get the app at all because the one and only app store refuses to carry it.

How is simply not installing these apps any different than Apple refusing to let you have them in the first instance? You don't get the app either way.

 

[mrochester]

Currently the entire iOS ecosystem literally can't play Fortnite because Apple decided to ban Fortnite from the iOS platform. I would argue having an app available exclusively through third party app marketplaces is an objectively more robust consumer option than just not being able to get the app at all because the one and only app store refuses to carry it.

How is simply not installing these apps any different than Apple refusing to let you have them in the first instance? You don't get the app either way.

Do people want apps made by a morally corrupt company?

 

[panton41]

Do people want apps made by a morally corrupt company?

If they didn't then they wouldn't use any apps at all...

 

[purecarrot]

Did you even read the article you linked? Good grief. “Code repository was hacked and may have had code automatically integrated into other projects via dependencies” is a far cry from malware on the App Store. Nothing in that article says a single iOS app downloaded through the App Store included malware. Nothing.

Of course it does not say that some app had a malware. How would they know? The critical point (and the salient point of the artcile) is that is this scenario Apple can't detect the malware, which also means that they can't detect the malware if it was inserted by the app developer.

 

[studentx]

Epic Dick Move

 

[panton41]

Of course it does not say that some app had a malware. How would they know? The critical point (and the salient point of the artcile) is that is this scenario Apple can't detect the malware, which also means that they can't detect the malware if it was inserted by the app developer.

Of course, a Kremlin asset like you would know all about covertly inserting malware. It's Russia's biggest technology export after all. Especially after all the Russian military hardware getting chewed up and spit out by Western weapons in Ukraine show how crappy your military equipment is.

Or, is that poor military performance just due to sending completely untrained conscripts (and convicts) to the front with a 1950s vintage AK-47s, a hunk of moldy brown bread and no armor and telling them to perform human wave attacks against a military using modern tactics? (As in combined-arms maneuver-warfare tactics the USA developed during World War II, updated to new technology.)

 

[purecarrot]

Of course, a Kremlin asset like you would know all about covertly inserting malware. It's Russia's biggest technology export after all. Especially after all the Russian military hardware getting chewed up and spit out by Western weapons in Ukraine show how crappy your military equipment is.

Or, is that poor military performance just due to sending completely untrained conscripts (and convicts) to the front with a 1950s vintage AK-47s, a hunk of moldy brown bread and no armor and telling them to perform human wave attacks against a military using modern tactics? (As in combined-arms maneuver-warfare tactics the USA developed during World War II, updated to new technology.)

That's a weird comment from some unstable individual.

 

[Zentac]

I don't get the arguments about every major developer all of a sudden launching their own app store for their own apps. If that was a thing it would have happened already on android ages ago.

This whole thing is the result of Apple playing hardball with Fortnite. If they would have been more open to negotiate fares and let Fortnite onto the app store under more reasonable conditions, they would not be in this position.

They played hard, and this is the result.

 

[ghostcarrot]

So you admit it's a major threat vector because (see below)...

...an overwhelming vast majority of people who use computing devices are complete idiots about them and easily scammed. I mean, Jesus Fucking Christ, people get confused at the U-scan lane and I don't think it's possible to make them more idiot-proof.

Except, you know, it's not...

I dunno, U-scan can be legit confusing in certain scenarios the first time you come across them. That's how learning works. Especially when there are 5 screens of buttons between the last scanned item and the machine accepting your payment. Or when the device decides that maybe you're stealing because you moved an item in a way it didn't expect, and now you have to wait for a clerk to come over.

 

[kgb999-again]

Do people want apps made by a morally corrupt company?

People buy apps made by Google, Microsoft and Apple all the damn time and those made by Oracle.

So .... yes?

 

[torp]

Epic still has to build some key parts of the new storefront, such as its mobile payment system for the platform.

Hey, will it have a shopping cart? Does the desktop epic games store have a shopping cart now, or they still haven't managed to add one after all these years?

How about email confirmation when you sign up?

Do people want apps made by a morally corrupt company?

Apple didn't kick Epic off their devices because they are against predatory free to play crap. They kicked them off because they didn't want to share. They're as morally corrupt as Epic and any other IAP peddler.

Speaking of which, whoever posted that the official app store policies protect the children... I have a bridge I'd like to sell to them.

 

[furrythundar]

Of course it does not say that some app had a malware. How would they know? The critical point (and the salient point of the artcile) is that is this scenario Apple can't detect the malware, which also means that they can't detect the malware if it was inserted by the app developer.

You seem to believe those particular exploits somehow bypass Apple’s review process. They do not.

 

[tumblrfan69]

So. Your premise is that the company distributing friggin Fortnite is somehow "uncompetitive" ... and a policy that will result EU iOS owners being able to to actually play Fortnite on their devices if they desire (with US consumers arbitrarily blocked from doing so on their devices) somehow doesn't protect and enhance consumer rights?

I take it the English language is not your native tongue?

I take it the EU pays you a tidy sum to astroturf?

 

[whquaint]

Two American products will have more capabilities in Europe than in the US because of regulations... There has to be a joke in there...

Edit: Just to clarify, I am a European that complains about a lot of things but not about consumer protection at all. I mean that these two products will actually be better in Europe than in the country they were conceived. You have to admit that is kind of funny.

“More capabilities”? “Better”? No. Just another way to do the same thing.

 

[FohENG]

Apple didn't kick Epic off their devices because they are against predatory free to play crap. They kicked them off because they didn't want to share. They're as morally corrupt as Epic and any other IAP peddler.

No, Apple kicked Epic off because they breached the terms of the developer agreement. Epic is the one who lost because they are still banned in the US and their attempt to force Apple to let them back was denied by a judge. And later again on appeal.

You know, there’s an easier way to say “I don’t have a clue what I’m talking about”.

 

[tumblrfan69]

Hey, will it have a shopping cart? Does the desktop epic games store have a shopping cart now, or they still haven't managed to add one after all these years?

How about email confirmation when you sign up?



Apple didn't kick Epic off their devices because they are against predatory free to play crap. They kicked them off because they didn't want to share. They're as morally corrupt as Epic and any other IAP peddler.

Speaking of which, whoever posted that the official app store policies protect the children... I have a bridge I'd like to sell to them.

Epic got kicked off for breach of contract. On top of that, a well engineered marketing stunt to coincide with the predictable outcome of their marketing stunt.

Unfortunately for Epic, everyone saw through their bullshit and nobody really cared about Fortnite as much as they thought. Only the EU is intellectually diminished to fall for Epic's "woe is me" bullshit.

 

[FohENG]

Of course it does not say that some app had a malware. How would they know? The critical point (and the salient point of the artcile) is that is this scenario Apple can't detect the malware, which also means that they can't detect the malware if it was inserted by the app developer.

Nothing like proving to the entire Ars community you know nothing at all about software development.

A developer having code inserted into their App has absolutely nothing to do with whether Apple can detect it.

I’ll dumb this down for you. If a drug dealer sneaks heroin into my luggage before I board a plane, does that mean the drug sniffing dogs won’t be able to spot it?

 

[torp]

Epic got kicked off for breach of contract. On top of that, a well engineered marketing stunt to coincide with the predictable outcome of their marketing stunt.

Unfortunately for Epic, everyone saw through their bullshit and nobody really cared about Fortnite as much as they thought. Only the EU is intellectually diminished to fall for Epic's "woe is me" bullshit.

The EU and the US government of the 70s who was breaking up monopolies Are you sure you want to go the 'intellectually diminished' route?

 

[tuna74]

Do people want apps made by a morally corrupt company?

Yes, a lot of people (me included) use apps by Apple and Google.

 

[Pantufla]

As an open source advocate who likes to see a world using standards, open protocols, and free software from different vendors that can interconnect and be chosen as you please, then Apple makes me puke. Seriously.

 

[migrena]

This will show whether the fears those who prefer the walled garden are valid or overblown.

Wil adding a second entrance see millions of phones and tablets be hacked by bad apps hosted by Epic? Or will life go on more or less unchanged except for access to a second store?

We'll soon see.

those apps hosted by epic do not install themselves on their own. i think there is a limit to how much apple needs to think for users of its devices.

 

[Buchliebhaber]

Do people want apps made by a morally corrupt company?

It seems to be implied but not actually stated, so I'll ask - do you believe Apple is not a morally corrupt company?

 

[sverrisson]

and then Epic will add exclusive games on their store.
Money $$$$

They complained about the excessive charge, so I expect they only take <5% charge. I assume 3rd party will be allowed on PlayStation then also?

 

[abazigal]

Let me know when you are allowed to install the epic game store app on the PS5 and Nintendo switch. Evidently, developers have no issues with paying Sony 30% but even 15% is too much for iOS?

 

[balthazarr]

I don't get the arguments about every major developer all of a sudden launching their own app store for their own apps. If that was a thing it would have happened already on android ages ago.

This whole thing is the result of Apple playing hardball with Fortnite. If they would have been more open to negotiate fares and let Fortnite onto the app store under more reasonable conditions, they would not be in this position.

They played hard, and this is the result.

iOS is not Android and Android is not iOS.

The reason many argue developers - such as Meta/Facebook, for example - will want their own App Store - is because Apple applies stricter controls and requirements on their App Store than does Google for Android. Especially relating to tracking etc.

Meta/Facebook have been very vocal in criticising Apple's anti-tracking stance. If they could launch their own App Store and create and distribute a panopticon App on iOS they will absolutely jump at the chance.

 

[ThirdMagus]

iOS is not Android and Android is not iOS.

The reason many argue developers - such as Meta/Facebook, for example - will want their own App Store - is because Apple applies stricter controls and requirements on their App Store than does Google for Android. Especially relating to tracking etc.

Meta/Facebook have been very vocal in criticising Apple's anti-tracking stance. If they could launch their own App Store and create and distribute a panopticon App on iOS they will absolutely jump at the chance.

I wouldn't put too much weight on that particular issue. The very same EU regulations that enable third-party app stores also place heavy restrictions on tracking and other forms of personal data collection. And as Meta has continued to clash with the EU on that matter, you can trust that anything they put out will be under heavy scrutiny by regulators and privacy advocates.

 

[Apple fanboy 101]

Is it secure?

No less than on MacOS.

 

[Apple fanboy 101]

Damn EU, once again forcing Apple to let American companies do business in the EU.

 

[Your Dishes]

That is if the DMA doesn’t suddenly decide that Apple is not allowed to sign Apps as it gives them too much control.

The DMA is very specific in allowing gatekeepers (Apple in this case) to guard against malicious actors and code through technical means like notarising apps.

Do people want apps made by a morally corrupt company?

Nestlé makes apps, so yes, apparently.

 

[BabelHuber]

I think this misstates the actual concerns many have. Personally, I’m interested to see if every reasonably-sized developer will start requiring users to download and use their bespoke App Store. Want Facebook or instagram? Download and install the Meta store. Want twitter or the tesla app? Gotta go download the X store. And on and on. The fact that it’s limited to Europe right now may serve as enough of a barrier to prevent this, at least temporarily, but that, and the accompanying “now everyone is storing my credit card details,” is the hell I'm dreading.

Android has let users install third-party app stores from the beginning. But the only one I know which gained some traction is F-Droid - since you can use it to install apps with features Google doesn't allow on the Play Store.

Apart from F-Droid, you have app stores from OEMs like Samsung. That's basically it, most other app stores are a tiny niche.

In real life, the vast majority of users use the app store their phone came with, end of story. Some geeks use F-Droid, some Samsung users use the Samsung store and that's basically it.

So I find it highly unlikely that we'll have multiple successful app stores for iOS in the EU, I think it won't turn out much different than on Android.

 

[Hopefully Smarter]

In the clash of the billionaires, you are the product and the prize. No one gives a shit about you.

there are no heroes here.

 

[FelemAutCanem]

Once Epic has their own store and Fortnite is only on their store Apple should go full marketing blitz on every Fortnite competitor - you can’t open the Apple App Store without a massive splash ad for something that takes money out of Tim Sweeney’s pocket.

I would argue that is unseemly. I would expect Apple doesn’t want to give a load of what is essentially free press coverage to this never ending dispute that they’ve already suffered losses on. The Steve Jobsian “nuclear war” approach doesn’t age well, I’d argue. It’s much more worth their time and money to focus on other matters. There’s plenty of work Apple arguably needs to prioritize higher anyway.

At the same time, while the various Epic cases state-side were hot and heavy I saw a LOT of App Store ads for PUBG. Front and center for days (weeks?) on the store itself too.

 

[Xyler]

Let me be clear.

I hate that Epic Games is getting their way. They're a scummy company trying to become a monopoly of their own. They do NOT have your best interest at heart, it just so happens that what they want can align with being somewhat "good for the consumer".

That being said, Apple opening up iOS isn't a bad thing. Time will tell how this will all go.

 

[Castellum Excors]

Hopefully you can turn off third party store fronts as the family organiser. I do not want my kids following a TikTok or Instagram link to a dodgy store front with uncurated apps. Least not until all the dust settles and privacy and security are baked in/verified. Serious question, is my concern real?

No, according to Arseians who've commented on third-party markets for iOS for years now. Only reasonable adults, with IT experience, and with an IQ higher than room temp will ever attempt to install third-party marketplaces. And it is clearly on them if things go fubar.

Your concern is invalid because Android users world-wide were offended that Apple sold a product that prevented them from blowing their phone up with malware. How dare Apple, with its hubris.

 

[flawinthesystem]

I think this misstates the actual concerns many have. Personally, I’m interested to see if every reasonably-sized developer will start requiring users to download and use their bespoke App Store. Want Facebook or instagram? Download and install the Meta store. Want twitter or the tesla app? Gotta go download the X store. And on and on. The fact that it’s limited to Europe right now may serve as enough of a barrier to prevent this, at least temporarily, but that, and the accompanying “now everyone is storing my credit card details,” is the hell I'm dreading.

Isn't that what having competition is all about though? If Meta / Twitter / Tesla feel they can't offer an app through Apple and enough people jump through hoops to download a store for their app then Apple is free to respond by changing their store to be more competitive. Consumers also have the option of not using apps from non-Apple stores and strengthening Apples position.

 

[DCRoss]

Android has let users install third-party app stores from the beginning. But the only one I know which gained some traction is F-Droid - since you can use it to install apps with features Google doesn't allow on the Play Store.

Apart from F-Droid, you have app stores from OEMs like Samsung. That's basically it, most other app stores are a tiny niche.

In real life, the vast majority of users use the app store their phone came with, end of story. Some geeks use F-Droid, some Samsung users use the Samsung store and that's basically it.

So I find it highly unlikely that we'll have multiple successful app stores for iOS in the EU, I think it won't turn out much different than on Android.

Apparently a small online bookstore produced their own tiny niche appstore as well.

 

[gmerrick]

I think this misstates the actual concerns many have. Personally, I’m interested to see if every reasonably-sized developer will start requiring users to download and use their bespoke App Store. Want Facebook or instagram? Download and install the Meta store. Want twitter or the tesla app? Gotta go download the X store. And on and on. The fact that it’s limited to Europe right now may serve as enough of a barrier to prevent this, at least temporarily, but that, and the accompanying “now everyone is storing my credit card details,” is the hell I'm dreading.

Don't forget you'll need a damned account for each and every one of these and you'll also have to supply CC info to each and every one of them. Hopefully they at least support MFA of some sort.

 

[hillspuck]

Don't forget you'll need a damned account for each and every one of these and you'll also have to supply CC info to each and every one of them. Hopefully they at least support MFA of some sort.

Does iOS somehow not have the same features of Android like Google SSO and using Google Pay to process payments rather than giving CC info directly to a store?

For reference, the Epic Game Store website (where Epic controls everything 100%) allows payment with Google Pay, Apple Pay, and many others. They also allow you to login with Google account, Apple ID, Facebook, and numerous other SSOs.

 

[heartburnkid]

Do people want apps made by a morally corrupt company?

I mean, Apple and Google make a lot of money off of apps, so apparently they do. To say nothing of companies like Meta.

I don't like Epic. Sweeney's a sensationalist huckster turd, and the large stake Tencent has in the company makes me nervous. But let's not pretend that Epic is somehow alone in being morally questionable.