fractl

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This is from a comment on a NYT article about the risks of a second Trump term.
Here's a hypothetical. Tell me why it wouldn't happen, perhaps repeatedly, during a criminally-immune Trump second term:

Right Wing hedge fund manager A tells Trump they are going to short the stock of "woke" company B, and if Trump simply agrees to announce a criminal investigation into Woke Company B, half the gains of the massive short sale will be sent to Trump's family foundation.

After the stock of Woke Company B collapses, Hedge Fund Manager A buys lots of stock of Woke Company B, maybe even a controlling interest, and then offers Trump half the gains of the stock purchase if he announces the end of the investigation into Woke Company B, with no wrongdoing found.

What stops that scenario?

The morality of all hedge funds? As if.

Trump's fear of prosecution? not anymore.

Laws against public bribery? Easily circumvented now.

Trump's fear of not getting a 3rd term? Obviously not.

Trump-controlled SEC of Justice Department? Ha.

Nothing stops it. In fact, it's a perfectly repeatable scheme, until
finally every investor realizes the stock price of Trump-resistant public corporations can only go down. Buying such stock would be nothing but transfer of your hard-saved money to Trump's family.

And then suddenly, all publicly traded corporations must bend the knee to Trump or die, and the value of your 401k is transferred to hedge funds and the Trump dynasty.

Criminal immunity for the President is the scariest Pandora's box ever opened in US history.
As someone noted, investigations by the DoJ are core powers of the presidency so cannot be challenged.

This sounds all too plausible given Trump’s predilections and corrupt yes-men.
 

Vlip

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Let's be clear here, with the immunity outlined by SCOTUS, there is virtually no limit to what a malignant president can achieve.

The only determining factor is the moral character and the ideology of the person sitting behind the resolute desk:

Resurect Hitler and elect him president -> Nuclear armed Nazi dictatorship and genocide 2.0
Resurect Stalin and elect him president -> Nuclear armed communist dictatorship with Gulags 2.0
Elect Putin president -> he'll turn the US into a copy of Russia's oligarchic dictatorship without even breaking a sweat

There really is no limits to what horrors can be achieved, all it takes is a bit of ambition and ruthlessness.

The only check on presidential power is SCOTUS themselves, but those idiots are too short sighted to see that an immune president just might throw them into jail/assassinate them before they get to reverse their stupid ruling through their horrendously slow tribal rain dance.

If Trump is elected, I genuinly fear for the lives of the liberal justices, they might just end up being used as examples to keep the conservative ones in line.

Reversing that ruling HAS to be priority number one on the agenda. Every day this is law of the land is playing russian roulette with fascism
 

Nekojin

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The only check on presidential power is SCOTUS themselves, but those idiots are too short sighted to see that an immune president just might throw them into jail/assassinate them before they get to reverse their stupid ruling through their horrendously slow tribal rain dance.
That's my line of logic, as well. As long as they're useful, the SCOTUS remains. The moment Trump thinks they're going to turn on him or not play ball the way he wants (or, god forbid, attempt to control him with the leash they think they have), they are suddenly liabilities.

They've created a situation with a sniper crosshairs on their heads, and don't realize it.
 
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SunRaven01

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/// OFFICIAL MODERATION NOTICE ///

Past this point, you will talk about Donald Trump, or contextualize your comments to be about Donald Trump, or you will be removed from the thread. General discussions about how you hate the Supreme Court of the United States, and all the people on it, are not about Donald Trump.

If we're moving into a phase where I have to be in here every day reminding people to stay on topic, the people that go off topic will just be removed, because I'm fucking over having to remind putative adults to do the things that they know they need to do every day. It's not worth my time or energy, so I'll just remove the people who are the problem and let the people who want to have a discussion remain.
 

Nekojin

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Since the debate, Trump has mostly been keeping his ranting lunacy to occasional posts on X, and daily emails to everyone on his mailing list. The mailing list ones (which have been going for a while) are getting more histrionic as time goes on, and offering weaker and pettier "rewards" for big donations (and some dubiousness as to whether those shitty rewards will actually be sent). But they're always trying to push for donations at any level.
 

papadage

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Edit. Removing OT section. Apologies.

Back on topic:

They know what they are doing and so does Trump. They are fellow travelers with his corruption at this point and are encouraging it.

It’s terrifying to see Trump realize he has a good shot at winning and the glee with which he is plotting retribution to everyone who was against him, knowing he will skate, and then consolidate power.

This bodes very bad news for professional staffer quality and ethics going forward. An administration stuffed full of Trump loyalists that can be tapped instead of external fixers is bone chilling when he can pardon anyone for any reason, and with criminal impunity.
 
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The only check on presidential power is SCOTUS themselves, but those idiots are too short sighted to see that an immune president just might throw them into jail/assassinate them before they get to reverse their stupid ruling through their horrendously slow tribal rain dance.
This is exactly why the Biden Administration, if it had enough functioning brain cells remaining, would be flooding the zone with unilateral, unchecked Presidential actions that obviously show how spectacularly dumb it was to give a President such powers.

Starting with regular and intensive proverbial full cavity searches of the 6 judges that ruled for it. Begin with leveraging the IRS, then the DoJ, then the NSA, then the CIA, then the DoD as swiftly as humanly possible. Once underway, start expanding the circle quickly to every MAGA member of Congress.

They wanted to plague us with a tyrrant named Donald Trump. That only works when they're secure in the knowledge that the Biden Administration will do nothing but sit on its hands waiting around to martyr the rest of us.
 

Nekojin

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That would actually be no change from the last Trump Presidency. Although we didn't realize it at the time - we chalked it up to ignorance, incompetence, laziness, and ignorance - the vastly understaffed government under Trump was quite orchestrated by his minions/keepers. Every seat that they could fill with MAGA-ites was, and any seat that couldn't be filled with MAGA-ites was left vacant instead of picking someone qualified. That worked twofold - the faithful would do things in service of God King Trump, and would insincerely mourn the lack of enough staff when things that weren't in alignment with Trumpist ideology were needed, and neglected.
 

karolus

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This is exactly why the Biden Administration, if it had enough functioning brain cells remaining, would be flooding the zone with unilateral, unchecked Presidential actions that obviously show how spectacularly dumb it was to give a President such powers.

Starting with regular and intensive proverbial full cavity searches of the 6 judges that ruled for it. Begin with leveraging the IRS, then the DoJ, then the NSA, then the CIA, then the DoD as swiftly as humanly possible. Once underway, start expanding the circle quickly to every MAGA member of Congress.

They wanted to plague us with a tyrrant named Donald Trump. That only works when they're secure in the knowledge that the Biden Administration will do nothing but sit on its hands waiting around to martyr the rest of us.
The challenge is that at this point, the current administration is soldiering on with business as usual—probably to a large degree due to the cognitive and image issues they currently are beset with. There's little chance they are going to go Macron-style and throw down the gauntlet. That was a huge risk, and could have ended badly—but the early aftermath indicates that the country got the message and voted accordingly. Kind of shocked into action. There's little chance this will happen with Biden's machine.

As a result, the current ominous signs and developments will remain that way until Trump can take the reins again. At that point—if and when it occurs—all bets will be off.
 
The location also fueled speculation that Trump was about to select Sen. Marco Rubio — who along with Sen. JD Vance of Ohio and Gov. Doug Burgum of North Dakota, has emerged as a finalist, and whose political base is in nearby Miami.

Hahahahahah, Rubio. What a good bootlicker he'll make.

And I suspect that Trump really has not any idea about who to actually pick*. His puppet masters will tell him.

And make him believe he was the one making the choice.

* Please let him go for MTG. Of course the puppet masters know better. I bet it is Vance or Burgum. If Trump wins** they will want true reliable GOP fanatics that will not go crazy rogue lunatic.

** After he is in the WH I would think a medical emergency will be the order of the day. He'll make a great martyr for the VP to whip up the base anytime they need it.

edit for: an extra *
 

Shavano

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The location also fueled speculation that Trump was about to select Sen. Marco Rubio — who along with Sen. JD Vance of Ohio and Gov. Doug Burgum of North Dakota, has emerged as a finalist, and whose political base is in nearby Miami.

Hahahahahah, Rubio. What a good bootlicker he'll make.

And I suspect that Trump really has not any idea about who to actually pick*. His puppet masters will tell him.

And make him believe he was the one making the choice.

* Please let him go for MTG. Of course the puppet masters know better. I bet it is Vance or Burgum. If Trump wins** they will want true reliable GOP fanatics that will not go crazy rogue lunatic.

** After he is in the WH I would think a medical emergency will be the order of the day. He'll make a great martyr for the VP to whip up the base anytime they need it.

edit for: an extra *
It won't be Rubio. His running mate needs to be not from Florida in order for Florida to have its EV's counted for both President and Vice President. That's how you could end up with President Trump and Vice President Kamala Harris.
 

Lt_Storm

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And I suspect that Trump really has not any idea about who to actually pick*. His puppet masters will tell him.
Honestly, I don't think the idea of "Trump's puppet matters" really makes any sense. I mean, sure it isn't like he is difficult to manipulate, but, with his I am the Mafia don ego, he also isn't the sort to follow the orders of a puppet master. Nor, for that matter, can he be reliably isolated in a way that lets one particular group of "puppet matters" manipulate him. So, instead, we tend to get a somewhat random selection of outcomes from various groups of competing would-be puppet masters all filtered through the somewhat consistent set of Trump biases. It's a kind of chaos which undermines anyone attempting to be his puppet master.
 
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Happysin

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It won't be Rubio. His running mate needs to be not from Florida in order for Florida to have its EV's counted for both President and Vice President. That's how you could end up with President Trump and Vice President Kamala Harris.
What makes you think there is anyone who will enforce this rule against Trump? I expect him to pick Rubio solely because it's an open challenge to the entire election's structure.
 

QtDevSvr

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What makes you think there is anyone who will enforce this rule against Trump? I expect him to pick Rubio solely because it's an open challenge to the entire election's structure.
They might flaunt the rule in that way for that reason, but they don't even have to. The ruling elites to whom that rule applies are never held to it's spirit. They are allowed to more or less instantly declare that they actually reside in some other state where the laws allow a residency claim. In Rubio's case he could claim DC residency, since he maintains a residence there and spends a lot of time there. South Dakota residency is also available, to anyone who will spend at least one day there and can claim a mailing address.
 

Happysin

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They might flaunt the rule in that way for that reason, but they don't even have to. The ruling elites to whom that rule applies are never held to it's spirit. They are allowed to more or less instantly declare that they actually reside in some other state where the laws allow a residency claim. In Rubio's case he could claim DC residency, since he maintains a residence there and spends a lot of time there. South Dakota residency is also available, to anyone who will spend at least one day there and can claim a mailing address.
True. I remember before this all got "real" making jokes that Trump should Make Rubio give up his Florida residency solely for the purpose of being VP, and then....not giving it to him.
 
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Vlip

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After the way he treated Mike Pence, who would want the job?

It's a risk/reward thing. The reward is being in a very advantageous position to become dictator of the USA when Trump croaks. The risk part can be minimized by being an absolute and complete toady to Trump till he does so.
 
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Nekojin

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He does not need to be ordered. Only guided to babble about whatever. Does he present himself as someone who is actually in charge?
Trump absolutely claims to be in charge, and that any important decisions go through him. Except when it might put him in some sort of trouble, in which case, he never heard about it, he didn't have anything to do with it, and he barely knew the employee who did it.
 

linnen

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What makes you think there is anyone who will enforce this rule against Trump? I expect him to pick Rubio solely because it's an open challenge to the entire election's structure.
Dick Cheney's change of residence to Wyoming was a fig-leaf to hide that he and W. Bush were from the same state. I don't see why this will not happen again.
 
The FL residence issue is a non-starter. It wasn't an issue for W, and it won't be again. We've come to the point where there are multiple GOP senators who don't actually live in the state they represent, and no one seems to give a fuck.

I still think Trump might get Rubio to resign his Senate seat and then not pick him just to fuck him over for saying bad things about him in 2016 and for generally being a neocon (the base would absolutely love it since they've never forgiven him for thinking about doing comprehensive immigration reform under Obama, and it wouldn't put the Senate in jeopardy for them), but the state of residence would be trivial to get around if they needed to. Even if Rubio didn't change his residency, who is going to stop them? It's not like SCOTUS would, after all; especially when it could so easily be made moot with a simple residence change.

Since my long-standing predictions of a Kristi Noem pick self-immolated in a holocaust of puppy murder, I'm going to predict billionaire Doug Burgum, since it would enable him to write multi-million dollar checks to the campaign directly, and not just the super PACs.
 
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Wheels Of Confusion

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What makes you think there is anyone who will enforce this rule against Trump? I expect him to pick Rubio solely because it's an open challenge to the entire election's structure.

We saw the emoluments clause rendered single-ply in Trump's term already. Enforcing things against the president seems to be an unpopular hobby of late.
 

Chuckstar

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What makes you think there is anyone who will enforce this rule against Trump? I expect him to pick Rubio solely because it's an open challenge to the entire election's structure.
If the Florida electors vote for two Florida residents, their vote is invalid under the constitution. It gets thrown out. Trump doesn’t want to invalidate his own election, only anyone else’s.

Also, if the Florida electors vote for Trump for President and someone besides Rubio for VP, and Rubio doesn’t get 277 electoral votes, it goes to the Senate to decide who is VP. :)

To me, though, the issue of what state someone is from is a relic of the early Republic, and is no longer a meaningful issue today. Someone will just do a Dick Cheney and re-establish residency somewhere, and (rightfully) no one will care. Very different than if a Virginia plantation owner were just to have moved to Pennsylvania for a few months in the early days of the U.S., and they ended up with Pres/VP combo that were really both Virginia plantation owners. People would have f-ing cared.
 

Chuckstar

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These days I'd still give a long hard look at anyone in the US still calling their farm a plantation. Also, has Trump ever claimed to be a farmer? And if so, does he know that rent doesn't count?
Did you miss the “in the early days of the U.S.” context for the plantation-owner part of my comment? Or just being cheeky?
 
If the Florida electors vote for two Florida residents, their vote is invalid under the constitution. It gets thrown out.
A month ago I would have agreed with this. Now? The Constitution says what this SC says it says. I'm thinking a newly installed Congress which sits after a Trump win might not agree with this.

Also, if the Florida electors vote for Trump for President and someone besides Rubio for VP, and Rubio doesn’t get 277 electoral votes, it goes to the Senate to decide who is VP.
That would be the newly installed Senate of 2025. If Trump wins, that would almost certainly be a Republican controlled Senate. What do you think they would do?

edit:
Thinking about it a bit more, this could all be straightforward.

Before electoral votes are certified in Dec., election results are known and define path forward.

If Trump wins with Rubio as VP, FL votes Steve Bannon for VP. If no majority for Rubio as VP, goes to new Senate in Jan. Senate votes in Rubio. Easy peasy.
 
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It won't be Rubio. His running mate needs to be not from Florida in order for Florida to have its EV's counted for both President and Vice President. That's how you could end up with President Trump and Vice President Kamala Harris.
I understand that this is basically impossible (and also would be bad because Trump as President would be bad) but that would be objectively the funniest possible outcome. Donald “convicted criminal” Trump and Kamala “a cop” Harris in the Whitehouse… he’s constantly trying to hide his phone from her because he doesn’t know how to get “meet Rudy, plan crimes” off his Google calendar.

The SC gets to adjudicate the question: sure, he’s got immunity for committing crimes during official acts, but does an accidental off-the-cuff confession of some massive crime count as an official act if you, as the President, say it to the VP?
 

Lt_Storm

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He does not need to be ordered. Only guided to babble about whatever. Does he present himself as someone who is actually in charge?
Yes, he very much does. But, outside that, realistically "puppet master" implies that there is some specific person / group who hold the strings so to speak. But, of course, that isn't how manipulating Trump works, he's more like Twitch Plays Pokémon, in that pretty much anyone who walks into the room with him has as much say as anyone else. This means that there is no specific person / group holding the strings. It's far far more chaotic than a puppet master would be.
 
So, "I'm peachy for Trump" or "I'm an ass for Trump" or "I'm Trump's ass"???

so confusing to this old man. :p
imU+1F351 -> im🍑 -> impeach

With respect to the original I was implying I had been a little cheeky in my response, but I'm not entirely sure if the peach is allowed to be used for generic butts or if it's now exclusively a sexual connotation (hence originally sticking to just the unicode). But it was a perfect way to tie in the emojification our youth have made of Trump scandals.

I think we should take note of that fact. Our post-millenial youth do pay attention to the scandals and one of these days they'll outnumber the generationally skewed representation we have at the head of the country.1 How that plays out voting wise I don't know. But they're watching how we handle political scandals now. Millenials have been voting for decades and even outnumber Baby Boomers2 - which means they've acquiesced to behavior like Trump's although they lean a little more left than previous generations. At least half of Z can vote now as well. Gen Z is the first fully complete digital native generation, but I'm not sure if it's helped or hurt them with respect to analyzing the veracity of information on the 'net. (Trump would presumably have significantly less supporters if they believed he had actually committed rape, fraud, etc… instead of buying into the Big Lie). Alpha is watching what current adults view as acceptable for a political candidate and will also be the first generation to have to deal with convincing fake news out of the gate. No idea how that will impact them.

1Birthdates of presidents in the last century
1961
1946
1946
1946 (immediate past)
1942 (current)
1924
1924
1917
1913
1913
1911
1908

2Which will rapidly decline in the next ten years or so, actuarially speaking.
 
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