I have acquired an old Dell 316SX PC with an old style ethernet card. It has both a coax connector and a DB connector. What adapter can I use to plug it into a modern switch?
Interfacing to Old Coax Ethernet?
- Thread starter AndrewZ
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You can't use a simple "adapter" because the signals are different so it requires an active device. You need a bridge between 10base2 and twisted pair for the BNC coax port, or an old hub or switch that has both from the days when thinnet was still used but being phased out in favor of twisted pair. You'll also need a T-connector with a terminator for BOTH ends, and of course a cable. Note that you'll only get 10Mbps half-duplex on the coax side, and if you use a hub it will be the same on the RJ45 link, though a switch might manage full-duplex on the RJ45, but when plugged into a modern switch it won't cause the rest of the network to slow down.
This ought to work; it mentions a switch for "hub or workstation settings" which I take to mean indicating whether it's plugging into a 10base2 hub or a workstation's adapter card.
View: https://www.amazon.com/10BaseT-10Base2-Converter-Ethernet-10Base-T/dp/B07KSW4MZ6
There are others available both old and new, plus old hubs or switches, probably cheap on eBay.
You could also use the DB15 connector for 10base5 with appropriate cabling (thicknet) and connectors but it will be harder to find a bridge or switch that goes to RJ45 from that, as thinnet had largely replaced thicknet by the time twisted pair came into use for networking. They did exist, though, usually with all 3 types of connector. Or you can use this, which converts everything all in one box plugged right into the machine; no need for any cabling or terminators, and it will be the same speed as the coax.
View: https://www.amazon.com/10Base-T-10Base-5-Converter-Ethernet-Transceiver/dp/B096RJZH18
You could also just find an ISA Ethernet card with RJ45. They're not terribly expensive on eBay. You can even get FULL-DUPLEX 10Mbps with that (with the right card and drivers) and really give that 386SX processor a workout.
This ought to work; it mentions a switch for "hub or workstation settings" which I take to mean indicating whether it's plugging into a 10base2 hub or a workstation's adapter card.
View: https://www.amazon.com/10BaseT-10Base2-Converter-Ethernet-10Base-T/dp/B07KSW4MZ6
There are others available both old and new, plus old hubs or switches, probably cheap on eBay.
You could also use the DB15 connector for 10base5 with appropriate cabling (thicknet) and connectors but it will be harder to find a bridge or switch that goes to RJ45 from that, as thinnet had largely replaced thicknet by the time twisted pair came into use for networking. They did exist, though, usually with all 3 types of connector. Or you can use this, which converts everything all in one box plugged right into the machine; no need for any cabling or terminators, and it will be the same speed as the coax.
View: https://www.amazon.com/10Base-T-10Base-5-Converter-Ethernet-Transceiver/dp/B096RJZH18
You could also just find an ISA Ethernet card with RJ45. They're not terribly expensive on eBay. You can even get FULL-DUPLEX 10Mbps with that (with the right card and drivers) and really give that 386SX processor a workout.
Yup, I would just look for a 10BaseT/100BaseT card if you can find one that works. Alternately, the second connector might work with one of these: https://www.ebay.com/itm/145845921676
CentreCOM? Make sure it will use the right language. Is it a British or American version Dell?
What kind of expansion slots, if any, does this thing have?
ISA, or was it PCI by that point.
If you can still find drivers for the thing, grab an appropriate card off eBay.
Good ‘ole 3Com pci cards would be a good bet.
ISA, or was it PCI by that point.
If you can still find drivers for the thing, grab an appropriate card off eBay.
Good ‘ole 3Com pci cards would be a good bet.
Will the NIC take one of these? Back in the day NICs tended to come with BNC and a connector to attach a MAU for those of us who thought that running your network over phone wiring would ever be a thing. Might as well be period accurate.
If you have local PC parts/scrap shop options, you should probably look for a 10/100 card there. There are ISA 10/100 cards out there but ebay and similar offer $60+ options from Croatia and stuff.
Otherwise, there is the AUI option I posted earlier. Or you could look into serial port networking (115kbaud is... fun).
Otherwise, there is the AUI option I posted earlier. Or you could look into serial port networking (115kbaud is... fun).
Actually I believe the MAU connector was intended to let you connect to 10BASE5 thick ethernet. My first real job was with the Dutch (ex-) monopolist phone company doing IT support in an office building back in 1992. The LAN was used to reach file servers and print using Novel Netware and to connect to the FIVE DIFFENT KINDS of mainframes and mini computers the company used. (Unisys Mapper, IBM AS/400, DEC VAX, Tandem NonStop, am I forgetting one...?)
Anyway, we had thin coax in a big room with a lot of PCs and not infrequently that segment went down as someone had kicked a cable loose. Between the infrastructure rooms/closets on each floor was thick coax, and most of the rest was UTP. However, the Ethernet cards didn't do UTP, so you had a MAU, kind of like a modem, sitting next to your PC that took UTP and connected to the PC's Ethernet card using the AUI port.
But soon network cards came with UTP built-in. I believe there are versions with and without UTP of the once super popular NE2000 cards.
My first contact with managing locally networked computers was long after UTP and Ethernet were around, though I'd used dial-up for years prior to that. The only time I ever actually touched anything as old as thinnet (never thicknet) was when I worked for NCR and learned how to service machines that were used by banks for processing checks, designed long before equipment that could handle them automatically. I've forgotten what those damn finicky things were called. They were desk-sized machines where the operator manually typed the amount and check number then dropped the check in, and the machine printed the encoded information using MICR and recorded it in the database. Intended for when banks had to gather up mountains of checks and send them to their main office for processing every day, and there were dozens of those machines in a room being used constantly. Nowadays an ATM can scan it and print the data by itself, and checks are mostly processed digitally and instantly. That was in 2005! There might even be some really small banks that still use them, and maybe in less-developed countries they're still common.
For those of you in need of an even bigger shot of nostalgia, see my Ars FP feature from 2011:
Too bad I it doesn't cover NBASE-T, though. That's 2.5 and 5 Gbps Ethernet over UTP and automatic switching between 100 Mbps - 10 Gbps as supported by the NICs and the cabling.
And sadly, the original 10 Mbps Ethernet is in decline, with new 10 Gbps hardware no longer supporting 10 Mbps, but only 100 Mbps and up. That's fine for NICs in computers, but how am I going to connect my 30-year-old Amigas to the internet or my Synology NAS if my switch can't do 10 Mbps half duplex??
Speed matters: How Ethernet went from 3Mbps to 100Gbps… and beyond
Too bad I it doesn't cover NBASE-T, though. That's 2.5 and 5 Gbps Ethernet over UTP and automatic switching between 100 Mbps - 10 Gbps as supported by the NICs and the cabling.
And sadly, the original 10 Mbps Ethernet is in decline, with new 10 Gbps hardware no longer supporting 10 Mbps, but only 100 Mbps and up. That's fine for NICs in computers, but how am I going to connect my 30-year-old Amigas to the internet or my Synology NAS if my switch can't do 10 Mbps half duplex??
All I need is 640kb Ethernet god damnit.
Systems from those days can't even handle one clock cycle's worth of data from a modern system.
That first link won't load for me. But I do in fact have an Avaya Silver PCMCIA 802.11b card much like the one you link to from back in the day, and there are actually Amiga drivers for it so I can use that card with my Amiga 1200. However, I can't do WPA with it so that leaves WEP which is no good. And nothing like this for my Amiga 3000.
It's really great to be able to mount my NAS over SMB on these machines, it makes exchanging data between those and the modern world a breeze. (Slow breeze, but still.) Obviously when I get a faster switch that doesn't do 10 Mbps I'll hook up my current 10/100/1000 switch with the Amigas on it up to the new one to solve the problem. Still sad to see the original 10 Mbps Ethernet disappear.
This thread makes me want to start another thread about all the old ass gear we’ve all collectively had to endure over the decades.
moosemaimer
Ars Scholae Palatinae
I did my networking degree in the late 2010s and we were still hooking up our lab routers & switches with serial links.
My vote is MAU to get to RJ45/10baseT, you'll probably need a managed switch to force the port down to 10/half but it should work.
I would also think to setup it's own subnet so it's not fending off broadcast traffic from everything else on the network including IoT and media devices.
I would also think to setup it's own subnet so it's not fending off broadcast traffic from everything else on the network including IoT and media devices.
No, in the absence of autonegotiation you still get the right speed, and half duplex by default.
That serial I/O card looks to be an HWIC-2T (High speed WAN Interface Card, 2 port/Terminal) for a Cisco 1600/1700/1800/2600/2700/2800/3600/3700/3800 series unit. The difference being- those are specialized high-speed serial and not run of the mill RS232 115k baud maxed normal serial interfaces. Think V.35, DSU/CSU, DCE at max 2.048Mbps. When the opportunity arose, we yanked these for the Ethernet WAN cards when we could.I did my networking degree in the late 2010s and we were still hooking up our lab routers & switches with serial links.
I had one of these
Held on to it when I was doing some networking classes so people could actually see 'em. Thanks for jogging some memories!
Held on to it when I was doing some networking classes so people could actually see 'em. Thanks for jogging some memories!
It was a link to a PDF about the AMPHUS (FORMERLY VADEM) VG-469 ISA to PCMCIA card.
We still have a couple of T1s in our main data center and at some BFE branches.I did my networking degree in the late 2010s and we were still hooking up our lab routers & switches with serial links.
Pretty sure you're right that the AUI connector (which you plugged your MAU into) was originally designed for thicknet (which used vampire taps that couldn't be integrated directly into cards), but it was universal enough that it got used for pretty much every physical media type for 10Mbps ethernet.
AUI's descendants are still with us today, in the form of SPF and similar more compact transceivers.
The actual product for that Amphus chip is something like this.
Trying to find a single one of that chip (which is probably out of production now, with any Amphus has in stock being made over a decade ago), then designing a new PCB around it, just to use a PCMCIA NIC in an ISA slot, would require more than just daring. It'd probably be more accurate to call it insanity.
Weird that it took a week before someone mentioned the 3c509.
@AndrewZ, the safest choice is definitely a 3Com card, as they were the business standard back in the ISA days and supported by almost everything that supports ethernet in any way. In addition to the venerable 3c509 (you'll need to get a later version to get one with a 8p8c connector for 10BASE-T), there's also the 3c515 (fast ethernet; the ISA slot can't run it at full speed, but it's more compatible today since 10BASE-T support is disappearing).
Yeah, I actually have experience with the old AT 3COM cards. This PC does have Windows 3.X installed, so there's also the Windows drivers approach.
That’s one network technology I’m thankful I never had to deal with.
Although when I was in college, the Mass Comm department was stuck in the basement of the library tower building.
One night when we were trying to hack together some manner of radio transmitter antenna we found in a closet, a token ring cable end popped out from behind the ceiling tile we moved.
Yes, it was horror movie level scary!
Token ring wasn't terrible as long as someone didn't take the terminator out. Or twist it juuuuust enough so it looked like it was in but it wasn't.That’s one network technology I’m thankful I never had to deal with.
Although when I was in college, the Mass Comm department was stuck in the basement of the library tower building.
One night when we were trying to hack together some manner of radio transmitter antenna we found in a closet, a token ring cable end popped out from behind the ceiling tile we moved.
Yes, it was horror movie level scary!
Carrier pigeons. Station wagons for big files.
Hell, a pigeon could carry more storage than multiple supercomputers from the 80s in a miniature USB flash drive. I can't even imagine the transfer rate of a station wagon full of them (going to a computer with multiple root USB ports).
"Insert USB drive 4,723 of 15,480 to continue installing Windows 73." --- Somebody check under the passenger seat! I can't find drive 4,723!
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ARCNet was good stuff for small lans.
I scored three arcnet nics from the white box pc company I worked for during high school. The kind that used good ole silver satin phone cords.
We’d play Doom and have little lan parties.
Now I'm wondering what the 802.3at equivalent for RFC1149 would look like.
I've found a few instances of no support for 100mb. Just 1gb or 1gb and above.
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Feeding tubes that activate when the pigeon lands and inserts its beak into the socket after removal of the datagram. Of course physical material would need to be provided, unlike PoE. The real problem would be waste control and management during "recharging" sessions (which would occur in "fast charge" mode between send/receive activities and "deep charge" mode for several hours at night). Not to mention the inability to transfer data at night without specialized equipment (night owls) which will be costlier.
Just imagine Cook turning and saying "one more thing, Apple Talk II", and it's like a 100Gb protocol that works on alarm pair (two wires) cabling up to a kilometer, with speed reductions scaling smoothly with distance down to gigabit at 20km, and a Cat6 pair can reach 500Gb, and you can bond the pairs in bigger cables so you can get 200Gb using common household phone cables, or 2Tbps with Cat6. It has zero patents involved that aren't owned by Apple, and it will only work with MacOS until the new patents expire, and will only work with Apple Silicon devices from the M5 onward using a dedicated port that nothing else uses. There is also a wireless version of course, but simple physics of signals limits it to 100Gbps at up to 300 meters.
Keep dreaming. The only thing that Apple hates more than wires on their devices is buttons on those devices. The future is wireless!
(Besides, who still has phone wire anyway in this day and age?)