How can US carrier employees be so misinformed?

[VisceralRealist]

Just try going to a mattress store. That's one instance where all the research online isn't a substitute for actually testing the mattress out in person, but mattress salesmen are as bad as car salesmen. All I wanted to do was get out of there as quickly as possible.

While I understand that these people are taught to sell their product by any means, I never understood how making someone uncomfortable is a good sales tactic.

 

[Mr_Ed]

Knowledge is power, my friend.

This applies to me and you, as the consumers. I never rely on a salesperson to give me straight facts about a product, especially the more obscure ones (the things most people would not inquire about). Whether I’m buying an $85k automobile or a $1000 iPhone, I make sure I know more than the salesperson about the product I’m interested in before I ever set foot in the store. When/if the salesperson throws some random “fact” your way, you can then decide if you think it’s just ignorance or an attempt at shady dealings and act accordingly.

I went into one of my local carriers and looked at the iPhone 15 a couple days ago. I was looking to upgrade from my iPhone 12 and wanted to see if the hardware features were worth the effort. The first thing that gave me pause was that a store employee told me “the back of the iPhone 15 is metal so you don’t need a case”. I tried to argue that having a metal case would interfere with radio communications.. I even asked him if he knew how a faraday cage worked. He said I didn’t know what I was talking about, “metal conducts electricity”, he said.

Aren’t those people supposed to know what they’re doing?

Anyway, after going back home and doing some research I returned to that store and upgraded to an iPhone 15. I’ll have to admit, I didn’t think the Dynamic Island would be all that useful but it’s growing on me. I don’t think I’ll be putting as much faith into the statements that carrier employees make going forward.

In your situation, it looks like just simple ignorance since the employee was not even trying to get you to spend more. As many have already pointed out, this is likely a low wage retail employee. I would have simply ignored it and moved ahead with the purchase. Had you done all your research ahead of time, you could have been done in one visit.

 

[TechnoMonk]

I would be proud of him for pushing for a successful future.

Who of us had it easy?

I see the homeless here every day and wonder if they have had a job in the last ten years. We have one who tells someone that she needs food, specifies what she wants, and then, yells at the person that it isn't what she wanted.

For every one of the unfocused retail workers who don't want to go to school to be better, there is already an example of their future that they passed in the parking lot.

Lot of judging. It’s not always that simple. I know many folks who suffer from PTSD, who can barely survive with simple daily stuff let alone keep a job. They do their best to keep it together, and some unfortunately become homeless. I wouldn’t be so eager to lecture about self motivation. It breaks my hearts seeing some homeless veterans and others who went through trauma. In the end lot of these guys are just trying to survive.

 

[steve123]

.. I even studied transistors down to the point of knowing how electrons flow from source to drain through a gate.

FWIW, the electrons flow through a channel formed between the source and drain that is controlled by a voltage applied to the gate.

 

[iHorseHead]

I went into one of my local carriers and looked at the iPhone 15 a couple days ago. I was looking to upgrade from my iPhone 12 and wanted to see if the hardware features were worth the effort. The first thing that gave me pause was that a store employee told me “the back of the iPhone 15 is metal so you don’t need a case”. I tried to argue that having a metal case would interfere with radio communications.. I even asked him if he knew how a faraday cage worked. He said I didn’t know what I was talking about, “metal conducts electricity”, he said.

Aren’t those people supposed to know what they’re doing?

Anyway, after going back home and doing some research I returned to that store and upgraded to an iPhone 15. I’ll have to admit, I didn’t think the Dynamic Island would be all that useful but it’s growing on me. I don’t think I’ll be putting as much faith into the statements that carrier employees make going forward.

That's very interesting. If I was the employee I'd try to sell you as many things as I possibly could and with the most expensive case available + MagSafe battery pack and MagSafe wallet and a new charging brick. Maybe they don't get paid for selling extra items. Here, in my country they'd also try to sell you an antivirus software and everything that you could possibly imagine.
But yeah, I mean I could complain for example that pet stores don't know much about hamsters. They're just employees and going there for money. Just like I am.

 

[thefourthpope]

While I understand that these people are taught to sell their product by any means, I never understood how making someone uncomfortable is a good sales tactic.

I always assumed they worked on commission, and I’m confident that commission incentives are bad for consumers.

As we say about real estate agents: Their only loyalty is to the deal.

 

[thefourthpope]

I guess maybe if this were an Apple Store? But I think it’s asking too much to expect an hourly employee at a wireless carrier to know the materials composition of all the different devices there. As to the conductive properties of those materials…seems really coincidental to getting you on a monthly plan with more lines than you need but also unlimited data and maybe your hotspotting gets throttled, but only if you’re in a high-traffic area at the time, so thanks for being a customer and consider answering the three question survey you’ll get after we’re done.

 

[iHorseHead]

I always assumed they worked on commission

In most places they do, even in the US. That's why it's surprising. In most EU countries they even try to sell you an antivirus when you buy a new iPhone or a Mac, including office and everything you could possibly imagine.

 

[Ledsteplin]

I was talking to an Apple Support lady about an issue. I got off on sending an Apple Music song in iMessage. She didn't know that could be done. She asked me to text her a song using the Apple Music iMessage app. And this was an Apple Support employee. Most support personnel for carriers and phone makers read answers from manuals.

 

[theluggage]

She asked me to text her a song using the Apple Music iMessage app.

I'd say that puts her comfortably ahead of the game - a "bad" support version, who didn't know what they didn't know - would just insist that it couldn't be done to meet their quota of closing X calls per hour. A lot of support time is likely taken up by callers who need to be talked step-by-step through "have you tried turning it off and turning it on again". (I've done my stint on "hell(p)desk" and fielding queries in small outfits/projects).

Most support personnel for carriers and phone makers read answers from manuals.

I think an XKCD link is in order:

...in a large organisation, the best you can expect from front-line support is "triage" - figuring out who hasn't charged the battery, doesn't realise that they need a call plan with their iPhone, is holding the mouse upside down, is actually using what they call a "Samsung iPhone" etc. and pass on the actual technical queries to relevant experts - and that depends on the support person having a good support network.

 

[Lounge vibes 05]

I've worked in retail recently and I'm sad to say that the 18-20 year old crowd and their parents probably didn't get much attention from their parents.

Or…
• they could care less about a job that’s barely paying them.
• the majority of their high school career was disrupted by a pandemic that stranded them in their home’s isolated for anywhere from six months to over two years.
•Wages haven’t kept up with inflation, so they’re probably broke.
•The housing market is terrible and they’re already broke, so they’re probably still years away from ever living on their own.
•College (assuming their going) is thousands and thousands of dollars of debt that they’ll probably never be able to pay back until their decades older.

People are products of their environment, and right now there’s not an environment for a lot of 18-20 year olds to care what materials Apple is using in their phone.
It’s all about getting paid and going home

Self-motivation should have been instilled by your parents. It's not up to a company or a school to build you into a person. When I was working retail or fast food, I got the 10 minute training session.

I know exactly how it is trying to survive on minimum wage. I also have seen the 18-20 year olds going on and on.

"I can't pay my bills. Hey, I saw this tattoo at a shop and I really want it."
"How much is it?"
"Oh, it's $500 but he's giving me a $50 discount."
"That's a lot but it's worth it."

What was the point of this post?
Yes, somehumans are irresponsible. Not a young people thing, an everyone of all ages thing.
That doesn’t really say anything about their financial status, think of how many people of all ages have picked up expensive habits, even when they don’t have the money?

 

[TechnoMonk]

I'd say that puts her comfortably ahead of the game - a "bad" support version, who didn't know what they didn't know - would just insist that it couldn't be done to meet their quota of closing X calls per hour. A lot of support time is likely taken up by callers who need to be talked step-by-step through "have you tried turning it off and turning it on again". (I've done my stint on "hell(p)desk" and fielding queries in small outfits/projects).


I think an XKCD link is in order:

...in a large organisation, the best you can expect from front-line support is "triage" - figuring out who hasn't charged the battery, doesn't realise that they need a call plan with their iPhone, is holding the mouse upside down, is actually using what they call a "Samsung iPhone" etc. and pass on the actual technical queries to relevant experts - and that depends on the support person having a good support network.

Pretty much what you expect from level one support, and sales personnel are much less knowledge about inner workings of products. For OP, he probably needs a level 3 support or even R&D to satisfy his curiosity. It ain’t cheap, a carrier isn’t gonna train their sales employees on all the phones in depth.

 

[escargot3]

For some one who expects to know everything, where did I say you were rude or abused the employee in person.

Are you actually serious with this retort? You literally said “you just abused some poor soul making minimum wage”. Unbelievable.

 

[mcled53]

I don’t want to just have an iPhone, I want to know how it works.. I even studied transistors down to the point of knowing how electrons flow from source to drain through a gate. I never buy or use anything without knowing exactly how and why it works the way it does. I grew up like that, I thought everyone was like that. I just don’t understand how someone can be happy just barely sliding by through life.

Not everyone who wants a cell phone needs to take a university-level class in quantum mechanics.

 

[Parowdy]

Unless folks are interested in the topic, most people just go on Apple's marketing and Apple rarely references the glass back on iPhones so everyone thinks they are either ALL titanium or aluminum, which are both types of metals. At the end of day it's just a person with a job that doesn't require a specific skillset just a broad one similar to car sales. These days there's so much info on the internet most consumers know more about the products than the ones selling them.

Not knowing what the device‘s back is made out of, and has been for 8 years, is as professional as not knowing which version of a car you’re selling.
There’s no excuse and it’s actually easier to know what the phone‘s specs are because, well, it’s the recent iPhone and the glass back isn’t that hard to confuse with anything else if you’ve held it once.

 

[BigTimEnergy]

OP expecting too much of a staff member on minimum wage..

 

[kc9hzn]

There is a very real possibility that whomever you talked to at this carrier store is working there for a few reasons:

1. Has a genuine interest in SALES and is not technically minded.
2. This is a 2nd job because the main job doesn't pay enough.
3. Needs money for school but has bigger aspirations afterwards and doesn't need to commit themselves to learning electrical engineering for a sales job.
4. Is so burnt out from the corporate/retail world that "sliding by" is the best they can do. They've likely been burnt before by other sales or retail jobs that they just dont care to learn about about the product they are selling. As others have pointed out, 99% of retail jobs anymore, especially commission based, are all about quotas and how well you did for the quarter. It's very, very, VERY rare to find someone working at a carrier store (or any store for that matter) who genuinely cares about how something works vs getting as many sales as possible for a bigger paycheck.
5. If you pressed them on more technical questions, I'm sure they would have just Googled the answer because that's how things are done anymore.

Point 5 x 1,000,000. As a software developer, knowing how to find the answer is far more important than knowing the answer offhand. The stuff you do frequently, you’ll have the info offhand. But, for everything else, you’ll have to do some research. There’s no shame in not information cramming every topic into your head.

And more to the OPs point, do you have such an excruciatingly detailed level of knowledge about everything you use? Do you know how your phone works in terms of RF as well as you do its silicon? Do you know all the properties of the weave or knit of your clothing? Different people have different interests and skills. Who knows, maybe that retail employee is a knitter or weaver in their free time (maybe they’ve even got a small side hustle, like an Etsy shop) and could tell you about textiles in the excruciating detail you could tell them about how smartphones work. The absolute brilliant thing about civilization is the division of labor, we don’t all need to be experts on everything, even on everything required for survival (I don’t have to be an expert builder to have a roof over my head).

 

[kc9hzn]

The expectation on our part is "Yes"

In actuality, this is not the case.

I recently went the round-around with GrubHub support as to the veracity of the two POS kiosks I retrieved from the dump . . .

. . . the few responses I received were what I would imagine the response I would get from asking a random stranger if it were possible that we are all travelers on an n-dimensional singularity, destined to travel-back in time to where were were, previously, without actually knowing.

It's like I had just invented 'fire'.

Temper you enthusiasm, and do your own research [edit: please, Mods, refrain from dinging me on the DYOR angle; it's really good advice, and needs to be said] 🤷‍♂️

That’s probably the first time GrubHub support had been asked a question along those lines, incidentally. Customer support is more about addressing the FAQs with a forced smile. It’s more about resolving the most likely issues in a way (ie a level of service) that keeps the customer a customer.

 

[kc9hzn]

The major US carriers are AT&T, Verizon and T-Mobile. Five years ago, Sprint also would have been a major carrier.

A regional carrier is a carrier that serves a region, usually a few states. It's not national, but it operates and maintains it's own network.

Then we have MVNOs, Mobile Virtual Network Operators. Those are carriers that are mainly national, but are not majors because they do not have their own network - they use other carriers networks.

A local carrier would be a carrier that's local to where you live. Not big enough to be regional, probably not big enough to even cover the state it operates in. Maybe just a county or two. I'd guess they have their own equipment because otherwise they'd just be an MVNO.

Incidentally, in my experience, regional and local providers in the US are most common in rural areas. They may have a roaming or MVNO relationship with one of the big three outside of their home service area while still having their own infrastructure in their home service area. One that only covers a county or two probably only has a cell or two, so I doubt there are any THAT small (unless it’s a county that needs multiple cells to cover it yet has enough potential customers to pay for the service).

 

[TechnoMonk]

That’s probably the first time GrubHub support had been asked a question along those lines, incidentally. Customer support is more about addressing the FAQs with a forced smile. It’s more about resolving the most likely issues in a way (ie a level of service) that keeps the customer a customer.

Most of the support from the apps/online is from chat bots. I remember some one asked GM support to write python code, and it printed the code. Turns out they were using custom trained GPT models for online and in app messaging.

 

[kc9hzn]

Most of the support from the apps/online is from chat bots. I remember some one asked GM support to write python code, and it printed the code. Turns out they were using custom trained GPT models for online and in app messaging.

That IS probably pretty common today. I had to do some training recently for work on generative AI. One of the things touched on in the training was the concept of prompt injection, which the user you’re talking about inadvertently triggered! A website chatbot should be fine tuned for the role of a customer service chatbot (especially trained on information for your site’s products/services) in order to provide more on-script responses. As a matter of fact, when using something like ChatGPT from an API instead of from the web front-end, you can specify that the chatbot assumes a specific role. Clearly, that website wasn’t using those features! They probably just figured that you could run ChatGPT out of the box as a customer support chatbot, which is only true in the most general sense (and only because OpenAI has already done so much fine tuning to their GPT model to allow it to be usable as a chatbot).

 

[eltoslightfoot]

Most of the support from the apps/online is from chat bots. I remember some one asked GM support to write python code, and it printed the code. Turns out they were using custom trained GPT models for online and in app messaging.

That is absolutely hilarious.

 

[Iwavvns]

I think an XKCD link is in order:

Yep, that’s what I see in many people these days.

When I was growing up parents let their children play with guns, knives and fireworks. Wanna know why there were no stupid people? They didn’t make it.

 

[Cirillo Gherardo]

I went into one of my local carriers and looked at the iPhone 15 a couple days ago. I was looking to upgrade from my iPhone 12 and wanted to see if the hardware features were worth the effort. The first thing that gave me pause was that a store employee told me “the back of the iPhone 15 is metal so you don’t need a case”. I tried to argue that having a metal case would interfere with radio communications.. I even asked him if he knew how a faraday cage worked. He said I didn’t know what I was talking about, “metal conducts electricity”, he said.

Aren’t those people supposed to know what they’re doing?

Anyway, after going back home and doing some research I returned to that store and upgraded to an iPhone 15. I’ll have to admit, I didn’t think the Dynamic Island would be all that useful but it’s growing on me. I don’t think I’ll be putting as much faith into the statements that carrier employees make going forward.

Imagine actually going into a carrier store.