Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2015 June 28
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June 28[edit]
Realtor and Real estate agents categories[edit]
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The result of the discussion was: merge Category:British real estate agents to Category:Estate agents (people) per WP:OVERLAPCAT, without prejudice against a future nomination to rename the target; no consensus about the other nominations. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:15, 14 July 2015 (UTC)
- Propose renaming
- Category:Realtors to Category:Realtors and real estate agents; perhaps with subcategory Category:Realtors and real estate agents by nationality if required?
- Category:Bahamian realtors to Category:Bahamian real estate businesspeople
- Category:Property agencies of Hong Kong to Category:Real estate companies of Hong Kong as a subcategory of Category:Real estate companies by country
- Propose creating new subcategory
- Category:British real estate agents
- Propose upmerging
- Category:Real estate brokers and Category:Estate agents (people) to Category:Realtors and real estate agents or an appropriate subcategory eg Category:American realtors or Category:American real estate businesspeople or Category:British real estate agents.
- Category:Australian real estate agents to Category:Australian real estate businesspeople
- Nominator's rationale: To have a subcategory for realtor or real estate salespeople by country for America, Britain and Canada, with people from other countries in a broader subcategory of Category:Businesspeople in real estate by nationality; and to move American and British businesspeople to an American or British subcategory. Hugo999 (talk) 22:45, 28 June 2015 (UTC)
- Alternative: use the local terms for each national sub-cat, and follow the lead article Real estate broker for the parent categories. Merge Category:Realtors to Category:Real estate brokers, and rename Category:Realtors by nationality to Category:Real estate brokers by nationality. In Britain and Ireland, the term is Estate agent (which has its own article), but this can refer either to people or to companies, so rename Category:Estate agents (people) to Category:British estate agents (people), keeping the qualifier "people" which was added after Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2012_January_30#Property_services_companies_of_the_United_Kingdom; and split it to a new Category:Works about real estate brokers for the TV series, etc. No objection to the renames proposed for Bahamas
and Hong Kong. – Fayenatic London 11:06, 29 June 2015 (UTC) - Alternative -- This tree is a mess. Make Category:Real estate brokers a container only category. Most of its contents need to be distributed to appropriate national cateogries, probably in most cases Category:American realtors. The Hong Kong category is something of a mess, containing one investment company (not a broker) and one American multi-national broker (which should not be there because it has a HK branch, unless the article is on the branch. This is an area where nomenclature varies from country to country. I found Category:Estate agents, which appeared be the English category, though some of it concerns TV estate agents (who display, rather than sell property). A British category is inappropriate in this case, as the Scottish conveyancing system is totally different from the English, with much of the work done by solicitors. I will leave an Aussie to comment on the Australian system, but realtor is a purely American term, as far as I know. The Bahamas item concerns an article on a politician described as a realtor, but I wonder what he called himself. Peterkingiron (talk) 15:29, 29 June 2015 (UTC)
- Comment I just made Category:American realtors a sub-cat of Category:American real estate businesspeople. I think revising the article Real estate brokers so more fully shows a global view, maybe even to be point of creating articles like Real estate brokers in the United States, Real estate brokers in the United Kingdom, Real estate brokers in France, Real estate brokers in Russia, Real estate brokers in India or whatever exact way people want to split things up, might help a lot.John Pack Lambert (talk) 05:50, 1 July 2015 (UTC)
- Objection: categories for some of those already exist using local names, e.g. ‹The template Cat is being considered for merging.› Category:American realtors, and the British category which is currently ‹The template Cat is being considered for merging.› Category:Estate agents (people). You have also just created a duplicate Category:British real estate agents, a term that is not used in Britain; that now needs to be merged as part of the close of this CfD, unless you speedily merge it under G7. – Fayenatic London 10:15, 1 July 2015 (UTC)
- Comment At present Real estate brokers has a combination of articles on people and articles on businesses. We might want to create a separate category/categories for the businesses.John Pack Lambert (talk) 05:53, 1 July 2015 (UTC)
- There already is, and it is clearly linked from the categories for individuals: Category:Real estate services companies. – Fayenatic London 10:15, 1 July 2015 (UTC)
- Comment Category:Businesspeople in real estate is another category, with less than clear differences from this category. It has Nigerian, Pakistani and Taiwanese nationality sub-cats as well as American, British and Canadian. Although at least some of the subcats are nationality + real estate + businesspeople, for rexample Category:Nigerian real estate businesspeople as opposed to Category:Nigeiran businesspeople in real estate.John Pack Lambert (talk) 06:02, 1 July 2015 (UTC)
- That would cover other occupations e.g. property developers and property company owners /landlords. – Fayenatic London 10:15, 1 July 2015 (UTC)
- Comment Well I don't mind what the main category is called, Category:Realtors and real estate agents, or Category:Real estate brokers if that is a reasonably international name(?). There is already a category for businesses rather than people, Category:Real estate companies by country, which should include a Hong Kong subcategory. Hugo999 (talk) 00:42, 2 July 2015 (UTC)
- You're right, I have created Category:Real estate companies of Hong Kong to hold both the property agencies and the land developers categories. Category:Property agencies of Hong Kong should now either be kept or renamed to Category:Real estate services companies of Hong Kong per Category:Real estate services companies. – Fayenatic London 07:54, 5 July 2015 (UTC)
- User:Johnpacklambert Do you have any comments on User:Fayenatic london's objection of July 1st? Marcocapelle (talk) 16:56, 11 July 2015 (UTC)
- The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:1967 by day[edit]
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The result of the discussion was: delete. MER-C 07:31, 7 July 2015 (UTC)
- Nominator's rationale: There was a previous discussion for Category:1897 by day at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2014 October 22#Category:1897 by day. Based on that, I think that Category:1967 by day should be deleted as well. GeoffreyT2000 (talk) 20:29, 28 June 2015 (UTC)
- Delete -- WP moved away from having saily categories some years ago. Peterkingiron (talk) 15:30, 29 June 2015 (UTC)
- Delete. Do you want to nominate Category:Years by day and all the pages inside it next? -- Ricky81682 (talk) 08:32, 30 June 2015 (UTC)
- Of course not, because those categories contain significant content. GeoffreyT2000 (talk) 13:40, 30 June 2015 (UTC)
- Ok, I just wanted to see where you were going here. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 21:41, 30 June 2015 (UTC)
- The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
4th-century BC establishments[edit]
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The result of the discussion was: merge/delete. Good Ol’factory (talk) 03:28, 11 September 2015 (UTC)
See: Category:4th-century BC establishments
- Propose merging Category:303 BC establishments to Category:303 BC and Category:300s BC establishments
- Propose merging Category:305 BC establishments to Category:305 BC and Category:300s BC establishments
- Propose merging Category:305 BC establishments in Egypt to Category:305 BC and Category:300s BC establishments and Category:4th-century BC establishments in Egypt
- Nominator's rationale: Merge and delete per WP:SMALLCAT, only one article per category. It is a case of doubt whether to merge to ten decade establishments categories or to a single century establishments category. The proposal as formulated here is more conservative (decades), though a few decades end up with 1 article after all, so I would not object to one total century establishments category (with some 40 articles) either. Marcocapelle (talk) 16:31, 28 June 2015 (UTC)
- Oppose.
This is getting repetitive. Regardless of your comments, your proposal is to eliminate the country and continent distinctions entirely. As a preliminary matter,Ancient Egypt, Greece and Rome (Italy) can and should be kept as distinct from each other and as separate categories. It would be much more useful to see what historical things are from those three areas at the same time rather than to merge all them together just because our articles don't have the full archaeology behind every article from here.The Italy and Roman Republic ones I created barely a day ago and I don't even think any of Category:Populated places established in the 4th century BC has been copied somewhere. SMALLCAT doesn't mean every category that hasn't been fleshed out should be deleted, just categories that could never be large enough should be. You're basically requiring everyone to have everything completed instantly or else you'll have all the work deleted.-- Ricky81682 (talk) 19:12, 28 June 2015 (UTC)
- * Strike out the language that's not needed. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 08:26, 30 June 2015 (UTC)
- It seems like there are two misunderstandings here:
- It's definitely not the case that there is a deliberate hunting of recently-created categories, it's entirely coincidental if there are recently-created categories among the nominated categories. The first nominated category is six years old to begin with.
- The proposal is not to drop country and continent distinctions. In contrast, they're all double or triple merge proposals, in order to keep the country and continent distinction. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:18, 28 June 2015 (UTC)
- Support -- We have a lot of ancient annual categories, which the nom has been dationalising: C4 BC in Egypt, in Italy, in Greece, etc will have enough to make them worth having; equally a worldwide 340s BC establishments category may be big enough to keep; similarly, there may be enough content for a 303 BC category, though I am far from sure. Ricky81682 has run into a rationalisation process that has been going on for some thing to merge thin filament trees inot something worthwhile. The deletion noms are suggested becasue they are redundant. We are never going to be able to populate a lot of these categories enough to make them an aid (not a hindrance to navigation. Peterkingiron (talk) 15:40, 29 June 2015 (UTC)
- Comment: @Marcocapelle: you have omitted some categories e.g. category:330s BC establishments; is this intentional because they are not SMALLCATs? If any decades are to be kept in this century, is it not appropriate to keep the structure for the whole century? – Fayenatic London 15:57, 1 July 2015 (UTC)
- Apparently I've made a mistake, because the merge nominations and delete nominations now contradict each other. I meant to merge to decade level, rather than to century level, as a more conservative nomination. Thanks for spotting the inconsistency! I'll strike the wrong lines. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:49, 1 July 2015 (UTC)
- The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
5th-century BC establishments[edit]
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The result of the discussion was: merge/delete. Good Ol’factory (talk) 03:32, 11 September 2015 (UTC)
See: Category:5th-century BC establishments
- Propose merging Category:400s BC establishments in China to Category:400s BC and Category:5th-century BC establishments in China
- Propose merging Category:403 BC establishments in China to Category:403 BC and Category:5th-century BC establishments in China
- Propose merging Category:404 BC establishments in Egypt to Category:404 BC and Category:5th-century BC establishments in Egypt
- Nominator's rationale: Merge and delete per WP:SMALLCAT, only one article per category. After merging, the establishments category of this century will contain less than 20 articles (too little to split by decade). This nomination is very similar to this earlier nomination. Marcocapelle (talk) 15:35, 28 June 2015 (UTC)
- Oppose.
This is getting repetitive. These were either just created or just now being populated. Regardless of your comments, your proposal is to eliminate the country and continent distinctions entirely. As a preliminary matter,Ancient Egypt, Greece and Rome (Italy) can and should be kept as distinct from each other and as separate categories. It would be much more useful to see what historical things are from those three areas at the same time rather than to merge all them together just because our articles don't have the full archaeology behind every article from here.SMALLCAT doesn't mean every category that hasn't been populated out should be deleted, just categories that could never be large enough should be. You're basically requiring everyone to have everything completed instantly or else you'll have all the work deleted.-- Ricky81682 (talk) 19:12, 28 June 2015 (UTC)
- * Strike out the language that's not needed. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 08:26, 30 June 2015 (UTC)
- It seems like there are two misunderstandings here:
- It's definitely not the case that there is a deliberate hunting of recently-created categories, it's entirely coincidental if there are recently-created categories among the nominated categories. The first nominated category is three years old to begin with.
- The proposal is not to drop country and continent distinctions. In contrast, they're all double or triple merge proposals, in order to keep the country and continent distinction. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:22, 28 June 2015 (UTC)
- Support -- For reasons under 4th century (above). I am not convinced of ther merits of a continential level at this remote period, when we have less than six national categories in the world. Peterkingiron (talk) 15:43, 29 June 2015 (UTC)
- The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:1906 establishments in the German Empire[edit]
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The result of the discussion was: merge to Category:1906 establishments in the German colonial empire. – Fayenatic London 13:59, 2 September 2015 (UTC)
- Nominator's rationale: Unlike 1905, 1906 already exists so this requires a merger. Again, this does not refer to the German Empire but the German colonial empire. CFD has decided that the German Empire and Germany are synonymous. There is already a Category:Establishments in the German colonial empire by year where this fits better. Ricky81682 (talk) 05:52, 28 June 2015 (UTC)
- Rename to German colonial empire.John Pack Lambert (talk) 05:52, 28 June 2015 (UTC)
- Support per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:38, 28 June 2015 (UTC)
- Prefer Category:1906 establishments in the German colonies, and renaming others to match. Since Germany itself was an empire at this period, it is propbably better to keep it out of the category name. Peterkingiron (talk) 15:45, 29 June 2015 (UTC)
- Support Peterkingiron's suggestion to rename on top of the merge nomination (not instead of). Marcocapelle (talk) 21:30, 29 June 2015 (UTC)
- The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:1905 establishments in the German Empire[edit]
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The result of the discussion was: rename to Category:1905 establishments in the German colonial empire. – Fayenatic London 14:00, 2 September 2015 (UTC)
- Nominator's rationale: This does not refer to the German Empire but the German colonial empire. CFD has decided that the German Empire and Germany are synonymous. There is already a Category:Establishments in the German colonial empire by year where this fits better. Ricky81682 (talk) 05:51, 28 June 2015 (UTC)
- Rename to German colonial empire.John Pack Lambert (talk) 05:52, 28 June 2015 (UTC)
- Support per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:39, 28 June 2015 (UTC)
- Prefer Category:1905 establishments in the German colonies, and renaming others to match. Since Germany itself was an empire at this period, it is propbably better to keep it out of the category name. Peterkingiron (talk) 15:45, 29 June 2015 (UTC)
- Rename anyway. The target should follow the close of the 1906 discussion, just above. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:32, 29 June 2015 (UTC)
- Neutral - either way "German Empire" or "German Colonial Empire" is fine in contemporary terms.GreyShark (dibra) 10:00, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
- The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:Jackson metropolitan area[edit]
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The result of the discussion was: rename to Category:Jackson, MS Metropolitan Statistical Area per lead article. Next, any interested editor should either propose renaming the main article, or speedily rename the sub-cats to match. – Fayenatic London 14:15, 2 September 2015 (UTC)
- Nominator's rationale: This, and all of its subcategories (and their subcategories as appropriate) should be deleted as ambiguously titled. There are five Jackson metropolitan areas in the United States. It appears that the creators are using this to refer to the Jackson, MS Metropolitan Statistical Area, which comprises five counties in Mississippi: Copiah, Hinds, Madison, Rankin, and Simpson. Each of those counties should already have categories with the appropriate subcategories. Should a new, disambiguated category for the MSA be created, all someone would have to do is add the existing county categories to it and be done. Imzadi 1979 → 04:52, 28 June 2015 (UTC)
- Delete or rename - I don't care which, but should not be in current form. Neutralitytalk 05:48, 28 June 2015 (UTC)
- Rename to use Jackson, MS Metropolitan Statistical Area throughout the category tree (per the article). I don't myself see anything wrong with subcats such as 'Education in XXX area' although Category:Memphis metropolitan area has not used this subscheme. (The subcats could all be renamed as speedies, as could this.) Oculi (talk) 11:27, 28 June 2015 (UTC)
- Delete -- I notice that two of the subcats are up for speedy. We might convert it to Category:Jackson metropolitan area, Mississippi and purge the content for the otehr four states. Jackson, MS Metropolitan Statistical Area also needs to be renamed, to give the name of the state in full. Non-US readers will not necessarily know the abbreviations. Peterkingiron (talk) 15:51, 29 June 2015 (UTC)
- Rename to Category:Jackson, Mississippi metropolitan area which is C2C to other metropolitan areas with the state name included, for example Category:Greenville, North Carolina metropolitan area. Objection to include of "Statistical Area" in the name, no other metropolitan area categories have that. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:06, 11 July 2015 (UTC)
- Rename to reflect that this is Jackson, Mississippi. Liz Read! Talk! 15:47, 21 July 2015 (UTC)
- Rename to Category:Jackson, MS Metropolitan Statistical Area The title of the parent article is Jackson, MS Metropolitan Statistical Area. I don't like it either, but until that article is renamed, we should keep the article and category titles in sync. Alansohn (talk) 20:18, 29 July 2015 (UTC)
- The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.