User talk:Cbl62

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Abishe (talk) 13:57, 1 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi! I am working on 1921 Centre vs. Harvard football game and have a goal of getting it to GA and eventually FA. Looking ahead to the latter, I am trying to get some good public domain pictures for the article, and found File:1919 Harvard football team.jpg, which you uploaded a couple of years ago. In anticipation of the image review process, which will likely need a definitive publication date, would you happen to recall where you found this? It looks a lot to me like part of a yearbook page - if that's the case and you have a link to that yearbook that would be awesome as well. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you! PCN02WPS (talk | contribs) 03:04, 5 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• @PCN02WPS: My bad. I added the details at Wikimedia Commons. The image was published in The Boston Globe, November 22, 1919, page 8 here. Good luck with the GA/FA. Cbl62 (talk) 09:42, 5 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Thank you so much! That is extraordinarily helpful, much appreciated. PCN02WPS (talk | contribs) 14:03, 5 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Could you move this to Earl Putman please? Per this and his Topps card says Putman if you search Google images. Asking you since you're the creator, thanks. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 13:23, 10 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Press reports refer to him as Putnam. I will check ancestry.com to see if i can confirm which is correct from official records. Cbl62 (talk) 13:50, 10 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Multiple primary sources on Ancestry.com confirm the last name was "putman". Accordingly, I did make the move. Thanks for calling it to my attention! Cbl62 (talk) 21:33, 10 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi - In this AfD, you provided some citations. I had already searched fairly hard and failed to turn up those, so I'm trying to learn how you did it. First of all, do we have a free way to use Newspapers.com or do you have a personal subscription? Second, do you remember how you found the Press & Guide article? Thank you for any hints. Ike9898 (talk) 16:49, 15 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• btw, I used the sources you provided in the subject article. Ike9898 (talk) 16:51, 15 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry to bug you, but Newspapers.com is down for Wikipedia Library users, so would you be willing to clip a few articles for me? I would like clipped [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7] [8] [9] [10] and [11] (as well as any other parts to any of them). I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks. BeanieFan11 (talk) 20:45, 28 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Note that I sent this message to another user - trying to expand the stub I started - James Colzie III - as quickly as possible - which is why. If another user does this first, feel free to ignore this message. BeanieFan11 (talk) 23:35, 28 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'll do what I can do. Been tied up with watching NFL. Go Lions! Cbl62 (talk) 00:04, 29 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Another user got to them for me - thanks. I've been watching, too - though my Eagles are out and I like both SF and the Lions - not sure who to root for :D BeanieFan11 (talk) 00:46, 29 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RoySmith (talk) 00:02, 21 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I know we've conflicted on how important the early NFL was before. I guess, my view is not exactly that the players always received sigcov for playing in the NFL (although many did), but that the NFL usually just signed the players who were notable, if you know what I mean. I.e., even if not all the early players had much coverage for playing in the NFL, they usually were already notable players by the time they entered the NFL, and that is oftentimes why / how they entered the NFL (for being star football players). Just my thoughts. BeanieFan11 (talk) 19:32, 1 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@BeanieFan11: We agree on more than we disagree. I don't question the importance of the early NFL as an important phase in the history of America's most popular sport. For this reason, every early NFL team and season is notable and warrants a stand-alone article (including its roster of players). What I do question is the presumption that every player during the early years warrants his own stand-alone article. This presumptios is especially unwarranted for players who had only a cup of coffee in the league and those who played with the league's many small-city clubs (populations as of 1920) such as Tonawanda (pop. 10,000), Pottsville (pop. 21,000), Portsmouth (pop. 33,000), Rock Island (pop. 35,000), Hammond (pop. 36,000), Muncie (pop. 36,000), Kenosha (pop. 40,000), East Orange (pop 50,000), Racine (58,000), Evansville (pop. 85,000), Canton (pop. 87,000), and Duluth (98,000). While many early NFL players were previously notable as college stars, many others were not. Indeed, many were simply local residents or factory workers who played for love of the game, pride in their community, and a little extra money on autumn weekends. In the end, each case has to be assessed, honestly and fairly, on its merits. Cbl62 (talk) 22:06, 1 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for uploading File:Bill Baumgartner.jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in section F5 of the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. --B-bot (talk) 03:09, 3 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You'd be advised to go back and tear out the non-free file rationale and redeclare this as {{PD-US-not renewed}}

This work is in the public domain in the United States because it was published in the United States between 1929 and 1963, and although there may or may not have been a copyright notice, the copyright was not renewed. Unless its author has been dead for the required period, it is copyrighted in the countries or areas that do not apply the rule of the shorter term for US works, such as Canada (50 pma), Mainland China (50 pma, not Hong Kong or Macao), Germany (70 pma), Mexico (100 pma), Switzerland (70 pma), and other countries with individual treaties. See Commons:Hirtle chart for further explanation. PD-US Public domain in the United States //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Cbl62

— all these old newspapers copyrighted their stuff for 25 years and then never renewed it because why would they???

Check stuff with the Stanford Copyright Renewal database < https://exhibits.stanford.edu/copyrightrenewals?forward=home > and include a link for the null result of your search in the upload link. No problems that way, plus you won't have to gut out the resolution to meet WP's weak fair use file policy. Hope this helps. —tim /// Carrite (talk) 00:44, 10 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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		The Original Barnstar
		I'm not sure if I've barnstarred you before for your excellent work on Early NFL biographies, but I'll do it again even if I have because excellent work is excellent. Keep it up! Carrite (talk) 00:40, 10 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for uploading File:Paul Crowe.jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in section F5 of the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. --B-bot (talk) 17:35, 12 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I've started building out SoCal junior college football standings templates. Also created Metropolitan Conference (California). Keep the standings templates in mind if and when you create more JC perfect season articles. Looks like Compton had one in 1955; see Template:1955 Western State Conference football standings. Thanks, Jweiss11 (talk) 17:32, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. Cbl62 (talk) 19:03, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Is Harold Grant a former head football coach at the College of Emporia around 1923, the same Harold Grant that was the basketball coach at Oklahoma Baptist in 1922? UCO2009bluejay (talk) 02:25, 3 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you today for Bob Mann (American football), introduced (in 2020): "Bob Mann was an American football player in the late 1940s and early 1950s. He was a star end (wide receiver in today's terminology) for the University of Michigan, where he teamed up with future Hall of Famer Len Ford to form a dynamic pass-catching duo. He entered the NFL with the Detroit Lions, where he played for two seasons. After a salary dispute, he was released and signed with the New York Yanks (not to be confused with the baseball team), although he never played for the team in the regular season. After being released by the Yanks, he claimed NFL owners blackballed him by all agreeing to not sign him. After a few months, the Green Bay Packers signed Mann, where he would play parts of five seasons until a knee injury ended his career. Mann would go on to become a lawyer in the Detroit area until he died in 2006. The quick overview above would make it seem like Mann was just another college football star who played in the NFL for a few seasons before professional football became what it is today. However, Mann's legacy goes far and above his statistics and physical abilities. Mann was a black player in football during a time of great racial prejudices. He broke the color barrier for both the Lions and Packers, he was cut by the Lions for not taking a pay cut (and possibly for supporting a boycott by the black community of a beer that he was a spokesperson for), even though he led the NFL in receiving yards the prior season. He was (arguably) blackballed by the NFL for his race and for not agreeing to take the pay cut from the Lions. Then he played for Green Bay, a town at the time that had only a handful of black residents. He has been called a pioneer for the dignified way he handled himself is such difficult situations."! -- Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:27, 8 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Fun to see this on the main page today Cbl62, good collab! :) « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 16:02, 8 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Gonzo fan2007: Agree 100%. Cbl62 (talk) 16:05, 8 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Kicked off an article for 1969 junior college football season. Let me know if you have thoughts. Right now Junior college football redirects to List of community college football programs. I think it should probably be blown out into its own article. There is some discussion of junior college football at College football. Jweiss11 (talk) 20:48, 8 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for uploading File:George Corbett (1938).jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in section F5 of the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. --B-bot (talk) 02:24, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi there! I tell ya, I just did an exploration of the edit history to figure out who put rudimentary schedule tables on all the old Oregon State University team articles and you are fast becoming my new favorite Wikipedian. I should barn star you again, dammit! Anyway, I also see that I've rendered a couple of your non-free images of old football players orphans with new images. I'm starting to build a pretty good archive of old football magazines and programs and am figuring out how to navigate the straits with respect co copyright... So if there is anything I can do for you down the road to help illustrate a football bio with a portrait, drop me a line.

I will add that programs are the key to life... They frequently include portraits of entire teams and almost invariably were published with no notice of copyright in first publication, which makes them fair game through 1977. Old football mags are 25 year terms and invariably those were never renewed, so those are public domain through 1963 if non-renewal can be demonstrated.

Pleased to make your acquaintance, I'm Tld61, for what it's worth. —tim /// Carrite (talk) 14:31, 21 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Azusa Pacific Cougars football seasons has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether it complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Let'srun (talk) 23:45, 27 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Greetings! When you get a chance, can you please take a look at my question on Talk:1985 College Football All-America Team? Thank you! Jb45424 (talk) 00:22, 12 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 15:21, 30 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, Cbl62. It has been over six months since you last edited the Articles for Creation submission or draft page you started, "List of homicides in New York City".

In accordance with our policy that Wikipedia is not for the indefinite hosting of material, the draft has been deleted. When you plan on working on it further and you wish to retrieve it, you can request its undeletion. An administrator will, in most cases, restore the submission so you can continue to work on it.

Thank you for your submission to Wikipedia, and happy editing. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:04, 29 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, Cbl62. This is a bot-delivered message letting you know that Draft:2001 Northwestern Eagles football team, a page you created, has not been edited in at least 5 months. Drafts that have not been edited for six months may be deleted, so if you wish to retain the page, please edit it again or request that it be moved to your userspace.

If the page has already been deleted, you can request it be undeleted so you can continue working on it.

Thank you for your submission to Wikipedia. FireflyBot (talk) 17:06, 30 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Good Evening Cbl62, I was researching some article I was about to write and came across this basketball coach. I found that the coach and the NFL player are the same? I am not sure. If so the article needs some update. Also I think this is a father son duo that bove were football players that became basketball coaches but I dont know for sure. Themanwithnowifi (talk) 20:09, 4 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Category:19th-century players of American football has been nominated for deletion. A discussion is taking place to decide whether it complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. ―Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 01:04, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. Eagles 24/7 (C) 20:53, 10 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

An IP keeps adding fake rivalries to Wikipedia:Requested articles/Sports/American football, [12] UCO2009bluejay (talk) 16:56, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sounds probable, but noting in main space. Or did I miss something?

I don't want to make false accusations but if Fretyr [13] has been blocked as his sock puppet after this Wikipedia talk:WikiProject National Football League/Archive 24#Anyone in a article-creating mood? (I suppose he was wanting us to do his dirty work), then I think there may be circumstantial evidence.UCO2009bluejay (talk) 18:20, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

As for Fretyr, there's some very minor initial editing to non-football article (John Lydon and Moral Majority), which may be an effort to deflect suspicion. Even so, 3 months after account creation, there are still no efforts by Fretyr to create any rivalry articles in main space. If it is a sock, it's not doing any real harm so far. Cbl62 (talk) 18:30, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@UCO2009bluejay: Any thoughts on User:Roesgo? Cbl62 (talk) 21:00, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know. I just saw that Fretyr was blocked in May as being a sockpuppet. But the timing here is suspect. I don't get to make those decisions.-UCO2009bluejay (talk) 21:41, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It is interesting how both Fretyr's and Roesgo's first edits were to contact an admin about a page protection. They both also created blank user pages. Heck when I started Wikipedia, I didn't know what an admin, user or talk pages were, just saying.-UCO2009bluejay (talk) 21:47, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I hear ya. Cbl62 (talk) 21:54, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Cbl62. How do you know File:Michael F Seyfrit.jpg was published without a copyright notice? You given the source as a 1955 issue of The Pantagraph, but (assuming that's the same The Pantagraph) individual photos appearing in a newspapers or other print publications (excluding those which were part of an advertisement) were not required to have individual copyright notices under US copyright law at the time; they were considered covered the copyright notice for the publication as a whole. In other words, not having a copyright notice wouldn't make the photo {{PD-US-no notice}} unless the publication it appeared didn't have a copyright notice. As for being {{PD-US-not renewed}}, that could be possible but it would need to be shown that the copyright holder didn't renew its copyright. Did you find this photo somewhere online? Did you scan it from sort of print publication? Did you try checking a site like www.copyright.gov/public-records/ to see whether there's any record of copyright renewal? -- Marchjuly (talk) 05:01, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• @Marchjuly: Yes, I searched the Stanford copyright renewals database and found no renewals for any photographs of Michael Seyfrit (or, for that matter, anyone named Seyfrit. It's my understanding that the Stanford database is the most complete database available. Cbl62 (talk) 05:07, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thanks for clarifying; however, if this photo appeared in a print publication, then it's the copyright renewal of the print publication, not the photo itself, that matters. Unless this photo originated somewhere other than The Pantagraph (e.g. they got it from a wire service) citing the paper as the source implies that's where it was first published. Do you know why this photo appeared in that particular paper? My guess is that it was part of an obituary, which means there's a good chance the paper got the photo from somewhere else. If the same photo appeared in other papers around roughly the same time then perhaps one of them mentions where it got the photo. Where, by the way, did you get the photo? Do you have The Panatagraph issue you're citing as the source? Did you find it online (maybe via a site like newspapers.com)? Is it an old clipping that you had or someone gave to you? These could help sort out itself copyright status. If this image is truly PD, there's no reason for it to remain hosted locally on (English) Wikipedia; it would be better off moved to Commons and hosted there. Commons is a global project and its content can be more easily used by all the various WMF projects. Local content uploaded to Wikipedia can only be used on Wikipedia, and that's really only necessary if the content is non-free or is otherwise {{Do not move to Commons}} stuff. -- Marchjuly (talk) 05:32, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The photograph appeared as part of the obituary of a public official (he was the Illinois director of public safety). The photograph is likely his official portrait, but it's not 100% clear. I clipped it from Newspapers.com. Cbl62 (talk) 05:36, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above pretty much applies to File:Lloyd Parsons (1941).jpg as well. You seem to have added {{PD-US-not renewed}} to these two files but there's no need to do so if the file is "PD-ineligible-no notice". Similarly, there's no need to have a "PD-ineligible-no notice" template if the file is "PD-ineligible-not renewed". Trying to cover all bases by adding more templates isn't really a good approach to follow here.

Portraits of public officials at the state,country or municipal level aren't typically within the public domain just for that reason alone as explained in WP:PD#US government works. Very few states have statutes on their books which designate content created by their employees as part of their official duties as being within the public domain. So, at the very least, it should be assumed that the photo is copyrighted and then work backwards from there. Individual photos (e.g. PR photos) distributed separately from a print publication during that time did require individual notices, but there needs to be some way of veriying that's what happened here. Did you see the same photo used in other papers? Was the photo attributed to a source other than the paper if you did? For example, "Photo courtesy of XXX". "XXX wire photo" or something similar. If, however, it's attributed as something like "Staff photo", then that makes the paper the copyright holder and indicate the paper is the original source. -- Marchjuly (talk) 05:49, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I've asked someone else to take a look a this. It will be sorted out one way or the other. -- Marchjuly (talk) 06:05, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Marchjuly: There is no note attributing this photo to a Pantagraph staff photographer (or to anyone). By way of comparison, I looked through other pages of the same newspaper and found numerous photographs that are marked as "Pantagraph Photo". E.g., pp. 7, 9, 10, 12, 27, 32 of the same issue. The absence of such a notation on the Seyfrit photo seems like pretty strong evidence that this one is not a "Pantagraph Photo". Cbl62 (talk) 06:12, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

A couple of notes -- the Stanford database is good, but is only for books, not any other type of copyright registrations / renewals (i.e. no photographs, or periodicals, or artwork, etc.). However the UPenn list of periodical renewals does not mention the Pantagraph, so it appears that was not renewed. Neither was the Star Tribune (they do say that no newspaper issues from before 1945 outside of New York City were ever renewed). A single copyright notice on the periodical can cover any contained work (other than advertisements), so a claim of no-notice should really have more evidence supplied that no notice existed in the issue as a whole. Images which were widely supplied can be more problematic, since lack of notice on a relative few copies would not lose copyright, so if something was given out to hundreds of newspapers, the lack of notice in one particular newspaper may not mean anything. But, odds are there was a copyright notice, so unless you can see the entire issue, and can't find a copyright notice (usually with the publication and subscription information), that tag should not be there. If the photo was owned by the periodical, the lack of renewal would usually do it. If the photo came from elsewhere, i.e. had a different copyright owner, you may need to search with that other name in other record types. The UPenn database (archive link since the main one seems to be down at the moment) has links for every year -- renewals would be either 27, 28, or (rarely if received at the end of the year) 29 years after publication. For items published 1951 and later, the renewals can be searched in the 1978+ records at https://www.copyright.gov . These photos seem to be for local-interest stories, and likely not from a large photo service, but probably supplied to the newspaper (one for an obituary, and one I'm guessing for a local athlete playing for a professional team). Those photos could have been renewed explicitly, though that was exceedingly rare. I would remove the no-notice tags given the lack of evidence for them. But, the not-renewed tags seem likely to be correct. The periodical was not renewed (if they even had rights to renew in the first place) so you'd likely have to find a renewal in the specific photographic renewals. It's usually good to document the names searched for. Disproving it is also straightforward -- find a renewal for it. Carl Lindberg (talk) 13:14, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you, both. I left the not renewed tag and removed the other from both photos. Cbl62 (talk) 14:15, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Clindberg for taking a look at these. -- Marchjuly (talk) 21:17, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Cbl62: Files licensed as such are, in principle, really better off hosted on Commons because it makes them much easier to use by other WMF projects. Files uploaded to Wikipedia are local files in the sense they can only be used on English Wikipedia; in other words, they will need to be downloaded and re-uploaded for someone to use them on another project (e.g. another language Wikipedia). I think you should tag these files with {{Copy to Wikimedia Commons}} per WP:MTC. -- Marchjuly (talk) 21:17, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]