State Abortion Bans Lead to Decrease in Medical Residency Applications

THOSE STORIES RIGHT NOW ON MATTER OF FACT. A LOT HAS CHANGED SINCE THE U.S. SUPREME COURT OVERTURNED ROE V WADE. AT LEAST 14 STATES NOW COMPLETELY BAN ALL ABORTIONS. ANOTHER FIVE HAVE BANS IN PLACE AFTER 6 TO 12 WEEKS, AND IN SOME CASES, THAT’S BEFORE A WOMAN MIGHT EVEN KNOW SHE’S PREGNANT. BUT THE RULING HAS ALSO HAD A DRAMATIC IMPACT ON MEDICAL SCHOOLS IN THESE STATES AND WHERE OUR NATION’S FUTURE DOCTORS ARE DECIDING TO STUDY. OUR CORRESPONDENT DAN LIEBERMAN, HAS BEEN FOLLOWING THIS STORY FOR US. DAN, ALWAYS NICE TO HAVE YOU IN STUDIO. THANK YOU. SO THERE’S BEEN A STUDY OF APPLICATIONS TO MEDICAL RESIDENCY PROGRAMS. WHAT’S THE DATA SHOWING US? WELL, THE DATA IS PRETTY ALARMING WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE NUMBER OF APPLICANTS TO THESE PROGRAMS, THEY’RE DROPPING. 4.2% DROP IN STATES WHERE ABORTIONS HAVE BEEN BANNED. COMPARE THAT TO STATES WHERE ABORTION IS STILL LEGAL. IT WAS A DROP OF JUST 0.6%. WHY IS IT SIGNIFICANT? WELL, IT MEANS THAT MEDICAL SCHOOL STUDENTS ARE AVOIDING THESE STATES WHERE ABORTION IS BANNED BECAUSE IT MEANS THEY CAN’T GET THAT TRAINING IN ABORTION CARE. IS IT FAIR TO SAY THAT THIS IS REALLY JUST SPECIFICALLY IMPACTING STUDENTS WHO ARE LOOKING AT OB-GYN RESIDENCIES? NOT AT ALL. BECAUSE THIS TRAINING IN ABORTION CARE, IT COULD BE EMERGENCY ROOM PHYSICIANS, IT COULD BE A CANCER DOCTOR WHO MAY NEED TO USE THIS TRAINING IN THEIR CAREER. SO IT MEANS THAT THESE STUDENTS AREN’T GOING TO GET THAT TRAINING AND THEY’LL HAVE TO TRAVEL OUT OF STATE WHERE ABORTION IS STILL LEGAL, TO GET IT. IN THE WAKE OF THE DOBBS DECISION, YOU WENT TO A OB-GYN RESIDENCY PROGRAM IN CHICAGO. I WANT TO PLAY A CHUNK OF THAT AT RUSS UNIVERSITY MEDICAL SCHOOL IN CHICAGO. DOCTOR SADIA HAIDER OB-GYN RESIDENCY PROGRAM IS FEELING THE PRESSURE FROM OUT OF STATE APPLICANTS SEEKING TRAINING, REFUGE IN A STATE WHERE ABORTION IS STILL LEGAL. SO YOU HAVE SIX SPOTS FOR RESIDENTS HERE. I THINK WE’RE OVER A THOUSAND APPLICATIONS THIS YEAR. FOR THOSE SIX SPOTS. IS IT HARDER THAN EVER TO TURN AN APPLICANT AWAY KNOWING THAT THEY MAY NOT BE ABLE TO GET THIS TRAINING ANYWHERE ELSE? IT FEELS TOUGH TO MAKE THOSE DECISIONS. OTHER PROGRAMS REACH OUT TO US AND SAY, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE RESIDENTS THAT NEED TRAINING. CAN YOU TAKE THEM? THERE ARE ONLY A CERTAIN NUMBER WE CAN WORK WITH OR TRAIN, BUT WE DO FEEL VERY COMPELLED TO SUPPORT THE NEXT GENERATION OF PROVIDERS TO GET THIS TRAINING ACROSS THE STATE LINE. IN WISCONSIN, WHERE ABORTION IS NOW EFFECTIVELY BANNED, DOCTOR LAURA JACKIE IS TRYING TO FIGURE OUT OPTIONS FOR HER STUDENTS AT THE UNIVERSITY OF WISCONSIN, MADISON, WHEN JUST OVER HALF OF THE COUNTRY HAS TRAINING SPOTS AVAILABLE IN THE OTHER HALF NEED AS THEIR RESIDENTS TO TRAIN IN THOSE SPOTS, YOU’RE NOT GOING TO HAVE ENOUGH AVAILABLE, DOCTOR JACQUES ARGUES. RESTRICTING ABORTION TRAINING THREATENS THE HEALTH OF MOTHERS FACING HIGH RISK PREGNANCIES AND THOSE WHOSE PREGNANCY ENDS IN MISCARRIAGE. IT’S INCREDIBLY COMPLICATED FOR THE SCHOOLS AND THE ADMINISTRATIONS TO FIGURE OUT WHETHER IT’S GOING TO BE LEGAL FOR THEIR TRAINEES TO GO INTO ANOTHER STATE, WE’RE GOING TO HAVE TO POUR RESOURCES INTO FIGURING OUT HOW TO CREATE TRAINING PROGRAMS. WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT SOLUTIONS, WHAT DO YOU THINK A SOLUTION COULD BE? THE SOLUTION AT THE HIGHEST LEVEL IS REALLY TO HAVE A FEDERAL PROTECTION OF ROE. THAT REALLY IS THE ULTIMATE ST SOLUTION FOR BOTH THE PUBLIC AND POLICYMAKERS TO BE REALLY AWARE OF THE IMPLICATIONS OF THESE RESTRICTIONS FOR PRO-LIFE DOCTORS, FOR PRO-LIFE RESIDENTS IN STATES WHERE ABORTION IS BANNED, WHO SAY THERE’S OTHER WAYS, THERE’S OTHER MEANS TO TO DEAL WITH THESE EMERGENCIES. OTHER THAN ABORTION. WHAT DO YOU SAY TO THEM? WHAT I SAY IS THAT THERE ARE TIMES WHERE THERE’S A NEED FOR THIS SERVICE OR THIS PROCEDURE TO SAVE A PERSON’S LIFE, POTENTIALLY IN THE SETTINGS OF INFECTION, BLEEDING. AND IF YOU DON’T HAVE TRAINED PROVIDERS, THAT CAN BE A REAL PROBLEM. SO THAT WAS A YEAR AGO. WHAT HAVE BEEN THE RIPPLE EFFECTS SINCE THEN? WELL, THERE ARE QUITE SIGNIFICANT RIPPLE EFFECTS THAT ARE JUST STARTING TO TRICKLE IN. I SPOKE WITH DOCTOR JACQUES RESNICK. HE’S THE PAST PRESIDENT OF THE AMERICAN MEDICAL ASSOCIATION. HERE’S WHAT HE SAID HE’S SEEING WHEN HE TRAVELS THE COUNTRY. WE’RE SEEING PHYSICIANS AND STUDENTS LITERALLY IN THE MIDDLE OF EMERGENCIES WHEN SECONDS COUNT, HAVE TO CALL HOSPITAL ATTORNEYS TO SAY, OKAY, IS A 40% CHANCE OF DEATH. IS A PREGNANT PATIENT WHO’S ABOUT TO LOSE THEIR KIDNEY FUNCTION AS A RESULT OF US NOT BEING ABLE TO DO THE CARE THAT WE NEED TO DO DURING THEIR MISCARRIAGE, IS THAT ENOUGH TO QUALIFY UNDER THESE NEW STATE LAWS TO PROVIDE THE CARE SO STUDENTS ARE JUST BEFUDDLED AND RESIDENTS ARE FEELING THE SAME WAY AND IT’S PART OF WHY WE’RE SEEING A REDUCTION, I THINK, IN THEIR DESIRE TO TRAIN IN THESE STATES THAT HAVE PUT IN THESE DRACONIAN RESTRICT LAWS. SO WHEN YOU LISTEN TO THAT, IT’S QUITE ALARMING. AND THE STATES THAT HE’S TALKING ABOUT, THESE ARE ALREADY MATERNAL HEALTH CARE DESERTS WHERE THERE ARE TOO FEW DOCTORS FOR THE POPULATION. AND WE’RE SEEING SIGNIFICANT ISSUES IN STATES LIKE IDAHO WHERE PATIENTS IN EMERGENCY SITUATIONS ARE HAVING TO TRAVEL ACROSS STATE LINES TO GET CARE. DAN LIEBERMAN ALWAYS NIC