14:58:42 RRSAgent has joined #wai-wcag
14:58:42 logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/03/31-wai-wcag-irc
14:58:44 RRSAgent, make logs public
14:58:44 Zakim has joined #wai-wcag
14:58:46 Zakim, this will be WAI_WCAG
14:58:46 ok, trackbot, I see WAI_WCAG()11:00AM already started
14:58:47 Meeting: Web Content Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference
14:58:47 Date: 31 March 2015
14:58:50 Zakim, who is on the phone?
14:58:51 On the phone I see +1.617.766.aaaa, [IPcaller]
14:58:58 Zakim, aaaa is AWK
14:58:58 +AWK; got it
14:59:19 Zakim, IPCaller is Joshue
14:59:20 +Joshue; got it
14:59:45 zakim, agenda?
14:59:45 I see nothing on the agenda
14:59:56 agenda+ TPAC https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/24thMarch2015/results#x2673
15:00:11 agenda+ Charter update - https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/2015WCAGSurvey/
15:00:44 -Joshue
15:00:45 agenda+ New issue https://github.com/w3c/wcag/issues/86
15:00:51 agenda+ Page structure tutorial https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35532/PageStructureTutorial1/
15:00:53 marcjohlic has joined #wai-wcag
15:01:01 Kathy has joined #wai-wcag
15:01:22 +Marc_Johlic
15:01:40 +Kathy_Wahlbin
15:01:59 +David_MacDonald
15:03:07 Loretta has joined #wai-wcag
15:03:55 +[IPcaller]
15:04:05 zakim, IPcaller is Loretta
15:04:05 +Loretta; got it
15:04:08 David has joined #wai-wcag
15:04:12 zakim, call EricE-Skype
15:04:12 ok, yatil; the call is being made
15:04:13 +Katie_Haritos-Shea
15:04:13 +EricE
15:04:46 zakim, nick yatil is EricE
15:04:46 ok, yatil, I now associate you with EricE
15:04:48 zakim, mute me
15:04:48 EricE should now be muted
15:05:46 +Kenny
15:06:56 hi
15:07:05 Zakim, who is on the phone?
15:07:05 On the phone I see AWK, Marc_Johlic, Kathy_Wahlbin, David_MacDonald, Loretta, Katie_Haritos-Shea, EricE (muted), Kenny (muted)
15:07:29 marcjohlic has joined #wai-wcag
15:07:50 +??P27
15:09:18 +[IPcaller]
15:09:19 zakim, [IPcaller] is Joshue
15:09:19 +Joshue; got it
15:09:21 https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Scribe_List
15:10:12 zakim, who is on the phone?
15:10:12 On the phone I see AWK, Marc_Johlic, Kathy_Wahlbin, David_MacDonald, Loretta, Katie_Haritos-Shea, EricE (muted), Kenny (muted), Michael_Cooper, Joshue
15:10:53 Zakim, take up item 1
15:10:53 agendum 1. "TPAC https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/24thMarch2015/results#x2673" taken up [from AWK]
15:10:57 Ryladog has joined #wai-wcag
15:11:27 Scribe: Katie Haritos-Shea
15:11:28 zakim, agenda?
15:11:28 I see 4 items remaining on the agenda:
15:11:29 1. TPAC https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/24thMarch2015/results#x2673 [from AWK]
15:11:29 2. Charter update - https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/2015WCAGSurvey/ [from AWK]
15:11:29 3. New issue https://github.com/w3c/wcag/issues/86 [from AWK]
15:11:30 4. Page structure tutorial https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35532/PageStructureTutorial1/ [from AWK]
15:11:35 zakim, mute me
15:11:36 Joshue should now be muted
15:11:38 ScribeNick: Ryladog
15:11:48 Meeting: WCAG Working Group Teleconference
15:11:57 Chair: Andrew Kirkpatrick
15:12:46 AWK: Two people will not be there, some will be there, many would like to be at TPAC 2015
15:12:54 TOPIC: TPAC 2015
15:13:16 AWK: Not sure if it will happen at this time
15:13:21 Zakim, take up item 4
15:13:21 agendum 4. "Page structure tutorial https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35532/PageStructureTutorial1/" taken up [from AWK]
15:13:26 DM: Unlikely that I will attend
15:13:27 Zakim, take up item 5
15:13:27 I only see 4 items on the agenda
15:13:30 q?
15:13:35 Zakim, take up item 3
15:13:35 agendum 3. "New issue https://github.com/w3c/wcag/issues/86" taken up [from AWK]
15:13:55 TOPIC: New Issues
15:14:55 AWK: 1 new in GH #86 around keyboard heading navigation. Someone says heading supporting for UA is not existent - who can look into this
15:15:00 DM: I can
15:15:17 Zakim, take up item 4
15:15:17 agendum 4. "Page structure tutorial https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35532/PageStructureTutorial1/" taken up [from AWK]
15:15:30 TOPIC: Page Structure Tutorial
15:15:33 http://w3c.github.io/wai-tutorials/page-structure/
15:15:46 AWK: Did you get a chance to review for technical issues
15:16:04 AWK: Do not worry about the philosophical differences
15:16:31 AWK; We just want to ensure that there is no erroneous info in here
15:16:54 AWK: Loretta and and Mark J. , anyone esle?
15:17:12 KW: I did but I do not have my notes. I will find them
15:17:21 AWK: Any big errors?
15:17:40 KW: A couple of small things in the code I forget but will review my notes
15:17:46 AWK: Mark?
15:18:13 MJ: Om initial pages I see no issue , but I have just started
15:18:28 AWK: Lorreta, you thpught it was good
15:18:33 LGR: Yes
15:18:52 s/thpught/thought
15:19:26 + +1.313.390.aabb
15:19:32 AWK: Eric would like to publish this tutorial - in a skim I did not see anything glaring. I like the content structure
15:19:39 Mike_Elledge has joined #wai-wcag
15:20:34 AWK: Page section content has HTML5 and ARIA role content that is brought into the mix. I feel personally, with Loretta and my review that we should have much concern
15:20:47 q?
15:20:49 AWK: I think it is OK, how do others feel?
15:21:00 q+
15:21:13 DM: This look like a best practices document here...
15:21:27 DM: where they have the navigation elements
15:21:28 http://w3c.github.io/wai-tutorials/page-structure/sections/#labeling-sections
15:21:37 ^^DavidMacD
15:22:07 DM: Role=navigation, not many sites have just one navigation role. So I think it needs ARIA
15:22:21 -q
15:22:50 AWK: Should it add some text for multple naav to add ARIA label
15:23:02 DM: Yes, at least we should have an example
15:23:07 q+
15:23:18 ack me
15:23:20 DM: How important is having a role
15:23:51 ...+ nav when you have an HTML5 nav with the role of Nav
15:24:06 JO: OK I have the same concener
15:24:42 q+
15:24:47 How about 'It can be used multiple times on a page, and aria-label can also be used to distinguish them appropriately'.
15:24:47 DM: This will be come the quintessential way to do things...we have this opportunity here to do that
15:25:01 DM: I am just taking a quick look at this time
15:25:13 It can be used multiple times on a page, and aria-label should be used to distinguish them appropriately'
15:25:38 DM: I do not rea;ly have time to review this, sorry
15:26:09 AWK: I do not think it is Davids responsibility to reiveiw this
15:26:25 AWK: Can we accept the revies we have
15:26:27 CHange to "When the nav element is used multiple times on a page each nav element should be identified" ?
15:26:44 ack me
15:27:01 JO: Eric is talking about issues ith IE11 and this nav issues, so we should include that info
15:27:18 q+
15:27:46 AWK: Maybe identify seconday labels
15:27:53 ack Kathy
15:27:58 Ack eric
15:28:03 JO: I am not particularly a fan of primary secodary etc
15:28:15 KW: I found my list of review
15:28:15 s/secodary/secondary
15:28:45 EE: It is clear that we should use aria-label and we could have some compatability info - as an option
15:28:46 zakim, mute me
15:28:46 EricE should now be muted
15:28:54 AWK: OK. Kathy
15:29:00 http://w3c.github.io/wai-tutorials/page-structure/headings/
15:29:36 q?
15:29:55 KW: In the headings section - my question is do it with H1, should we say ideally H1 and take out H2
15:30:01 KHS: I agree
15:30:06 +1
15:30:18 DM: I agree
15:30:34 AWK: Maybe we should remove this last senetnce entirely
15:30:49 +1 to AWK
15:30:49 AWK: Say use the highest heading avaible
15:30:56 ack me
15:31:08 s/avaible/available
15:31:24 AWK; Is it OK to ask you to do what EO just asked you NOT to do?
15:31:25 zakim, mute me
15:31:25 EricE should now be muted
15:31:32 +James_Nurthen
15:31:32 EE: Sure. I amthe buffer
15:31:52 AWK: What do we think?
15:32:05 AWK: Changes can happen after it is published
15:32:56 AWK: We may never be able to reach perfection.......:-) Are we comfortable for WCAG to say this is good enough to go?
15:33:17 ...or should we review it and who?
15:33:26 ack me
15:33:50 DM: Maybe I can. Eric have you found any browser that supports the Q element? I havent.
15:34:24 JO: We should keep it in for coverage and one day UA should support the specs that have it
15:34:27 -Loretta
15:34:57 +[IPcaller]
15:35:06 zakim, IPcaller is Loretta
15:35:06 +Loretta; got it
15:35:10 AWK: There is benefits for using it now - even though it might not be supported in SC, but it will be supported for other users
15:35:19 ack me
15:35:23 AWK: Do any SC read the CSS generated content
15:35:27 DM: No
15:35:33 JO: Of course they do
15:36:04 JN: If it is just using the virtual buffer it will not, but other wise it should
15:36:16 DM; But it did not show up in the DOM
15:36:27 DM: But it is not reading it.
15:36:52 JN: But it is in the AAPI
15:37:05 Trust, but verify!
15:37:14 AWK: David may have some time today
15:37:36 DM: The only thing that stuck out was tis and caption - so I amy have a few
15:37:42 zakim, mute ne
15:37:42 sorry, Joshue108, I do not know which phone connection belongs to ne
15:37:45 zakim, mute me
15:37:45 Joshue should now be muted
15:38:07 +1
15:38:10 +1 to AWK
15:38:11 ack me
15:38:30 AWK: Can we say that e are OK with this progressing towards being published - knoing that Davisd will provide some comment today. Are we commfortable with this?
15:38:43 s/that e/that we
15:39:08 EE: It is not about Publication today. There is still going to be another round of revieew before publishing
15:39:11 q?
15:39:23 AWK; OK great, I was misinformed
15:39:25 zakim, mute me
15:39:25 EricE should now be muted
15:39:25 brb
15:40:11 ack me
15:40:13 +1
15:40:20 Zakim, take up item 2
15:40:20 agendum 2. "Charter update - https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/2015WCAGSurvey/" taken up [from AWK]
15:40:20 AWK We provide comments - hopefully other will tale a look at it and provide comments - so that next time Eric asked for publication we will be ready to go
15:40:30 👍
15:40:35 TOPIC: Charter DIscussion
15:40:46 zakim, mute me
15:40:46 Joshue should now be muted
15:40:54 s/DI/Di/
15:40:59 AWK: This is the mail item that we talk about
15:41:07 q+ to provide background on the non-web point
15:41:50 rrsagent, draft minutes
15:41:50 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/03/31-wai-wcag-minutes.html Ryladog
15:42:02 ack me
15:42:29 AWK: There were several formal objection to WAI charters - with 7 formal objections - as a result there is alot of scrutiny.
15:42:56 AWK: The consensus is that the world is ready for normative work in WCAG
15:43:04 zakim, mute me
15:43:04 Joshue should now be muted
15:43:31 AWK: We are not talking about WCAG 3 - but are talking about shorter documents that are extension docuiments. The first would be Mobile Touch
15:44:13 ...that would extend WCAG> Perhaps in the future folks would say "I want to adopt WCAG2 plus X extension"
15:45:03 s/docuiments/documents
15:45:06 ....so that will free us up to do normative work. Technique and Understanding docs would be needed for the extensions
15:46:10 AWK: You can see from the charter
15:47:12 AWK: Also in scope is developing the normative extensions in several areas, we can add them. Badnwidth will be our limiter here
15:47:34 AWK: LOw Vision needs a more defined affort
15:47:52 q?
15:48:12 AWK: Further ahead further down the road , more 2020, and then coordinating with other groups in W3C. We still can have task forces
15:48:46 AWK: Deliverable: Tej Understanding and Techniques
15:48:56 AWK: Editor REq by the end of the year
15:49:23 AWK: We expect alot tto come from Cognitive and Mobile work. Targeting a Mobile Extension
15:49:39 AWK: New REq by April 2018
15:49:40 q+
15:50:03 ack me
15:50:03 MichaelC, you wanted to provide background on the non-web point
15:50:04 ack m
15:50:40 MC: I wanted to try to fast track the comments questioning excluding non-web content. I treid o look into the background of this
15:50:54 http://www.w3.org/2013/05/14-wai-wcag-minutes
15:50:58 http://www.w3.org/2013/06/04-wai-wcag-minutes
15:51:09 s/I treid o look/I tried to look
15:51:14 q+
15:51:22 MC: I though tthat Judy had asked us to add this. But I was wrong. It was the WG that wanted to add this. There were meerting where we talked about this
15:51:38 s/though tthat/thought that
15:51:57 MC: Judy wants to not have that limitation as well
15:52:21 MC: And Loretta agrrees now
15:52:30 ack k
15:52:32 s/agrrees/agrees
15:52:33 q-
15:52:50 MC: So I think we can come to consensus on this quickly to oepn up that limitation
15:53:02 KW: WHat is the Mobile scope?
15:53:20 KW: How will those dates flow together and where they came from?
15:54:00 MC: We tried to toss some milestones into the air - because we have to have them in the document. We needd to now have those converstaions.
15:54:40 Management likes to have Reqs completed in a charter cycle. Please give us nbetter suggestions
15:54:52 s/nbetter/better
15:55:08 MC: A fPWD dos not have to be super mature to publish. We can sgue for some later daye
15:56:05 KW: We are working on techniques. We have something. As long as the expectation is something. A skeleton. Then that is OK
15:56:26 MC: That is OK. The first draft might have a bifg section that is Requirements
15:56:57 AWK: There is 23 months between FPWD and CR
15:57:13 rrsagent, make minutes
15:57:13 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/03/31-wai-wcag-minutes.html Ryladog
15:57:30 AWK: It is a new review process
15:57:48 MC: I think it is better to have multiple WD to get pleny of feedback
15:58:01 zakim, who is here?
15:58:01