It started as a nerdy conversation about music over a long, boozy dinner. Then, before she knew it, singer-songwriter Gracie Abrams was at a piano with Taylor Swift until 5 a.m. The result is the duet “Us,” track five on Abrams’s highly anticipated sophomore album, The Secret of Us, out today.
The song serves as a bona fide vote of confidence from Swift for the 24-year-old: While no stranger to collaboration, Swift has seldom featured on other artists’ projects during her career, with Tim McGraw and Ed Sheeran among the rare exceptions. Yet her friendship with Abrams has deep roots by now. Not only did she open for Swift early in the Eras Tour’s monumental run last year, but Abrams will also be the tour’s final opening act when it wraps up in Canada this December.
And their allegiance makes good sense: Much like Swift, Abrams is a songwriter first. She started picking out songs about the adolescent experience—first on piano, then guitar—as a kid before perfecting what has become her calling card, candid songs about love, heartbreak, and insecurity. Now, two albums later, she’s picked up a Grammy nomination for best new artist, made a buzzy Met Gala appearance, and released “Close to You,” the biggest single debut of her career so far. Her star was on the rise before Eras, and will keep on rising after it—but it certainly doesn’t hurt to have the biggest artist on earth in her corner.
Vogue: Take me back to when you were eight years old, which is when you began composing songs on the piano. How did that come about? Because nobody’s doing that when they’re eight.
Gracie Abrams: My third grade teacher Amy, who I adored, encouraged us to journal and got us these tiny, little palm-sized flimsy pocket journals. She wouldn’t read what we wrote, but she’d check the dates to see if we were consistent. She totally got me writing in general, and I found that it was my favorite way to spend my time. I actually ultimately preferred expressing myself there as opposed to face-to-face with another person. And then the music came because I was lucky enough to grow up in a house with a piano. But I always stopped writing on the piano whenever I heard footsteps because it wasn’t for anyone but myself. That’s the origin story.
Congratulations on the release of your latest single, “Close to You.” I understand this song has had an extended gestation period, since you first posted a hint of it in 2017 on social media. Why so long?
I thought it would never see the light of day, period. I loved making it seven years ago; it was during one of the first sessions that I had where I was told, “You’re gonna drive to West Hollywood and sit in a room with someone you don’t know and try to make something.” But I had written the song at home and brought it in, made the demo, and then posted 20 seconds of it, not thinking anything. At the time I was using Instagram as a video diary, posting songs I was making in real time, so “Close to You” was one of them. It didn’t fit within the world of what I was comfortable making at the time; my sound then was very stripped back and quiet and I had no context for using an actual singing voice. All of my songs were very whispery, which is how I grew up singing because it wasn’t for anyone else to hear. But the version that exists today is very close to what that sample was because people liked it, and I was kind of actively annoyed at the fact that I had been nudged about it all this time. I loved the song but didn’t want to do anything with it because it just didn’t belong anywhere. Then when I finished The Secret of Us, someone on Instagram mentioned “Close to You” again and I realized that it finally does fit. I wanted it to not be “track 13,” but a musical PS. It’s kind of like a “deluxe” track, and thematically and sonically it works in the world. So everyone was right!
It’s funny how it really isn’t like much of your discography, but it still doesn't seem like you’re going out on a limb with it. How did you cultivate your sound initially? Did you always have an idea of your musical voice in your head?
When I thought about putting music out for the first time four or five years ago, I didn’t have much of a grip on anything other than that I knew I loved writing and that was my knack, I suppose. It was my favorite thing in the world and these are the songs I’m making at this point in my life. It didn’t feel like I was making anything wildly cohesive. It wasn’t until Good Riddance [Abrams’s 2023 debut album] that it felt like I was consciously making an album and wanted something to feel like a full collection of songs that play into each other and work together. I feel like my sound is equally informed by my lived experiences, so that continuously evolves. I think I have the best sense of myself today than I ever have before, and that’s probably why this album is more extroverted. It’s more self-assured.
Aaron Dessner produced The Secret of Us, which you recorded at his Long Pond Studios in upstate New York. How did you meet, and how did he help facilitate your musical vision?
He’s been such an instrumental human being in my life. Obviously musically, as a collaborator, but also someone as a mentor in all lanes. We randomly have the same lawyer [laughs] and she said during COVID, “There’s this guy and I think you’d like him.” When I was 12 years old with my headphones on I’d listen to The National in the corner of my art class, so I’ve always loved what he has touched. I feel like he’s such a rare human being who totally cuts through everything he makes. It’s actually very easy for me at this point to identify when he’s been a part of a song. In the greatest way, he’s a deeply sensitive person and one of his superpowers is creating space for the people he taps to work with to come as they are and be their full, true selves—be vulnerable about what they’re dealing with and their goals. So we started working together via FaceTime during COVID. About a year later, once the quarantine had been lifted, he said I should come to Long Pond. I immediately felt like, This is the safest space ever to make this. This is someone whose instincts I’ve trusted for years.
It has to be something to do with him being an artist as well, I’d think? Like how they say actors make the best directors.
Exactly. There’s less ego too. Significantly less, and that was a relief. One of the things I valued so much at the time, and even more so now, [is] here’s this person who is incredibly established, doing a thing that they love and are truly passionate about in their own specific way. He’s not trying to be at the white-hot center of music, but someone who built a life, has a family, lives somewhere peaceful, tours, and makes epic albums. Like, holy shit, there is a version that isn’t the LA pop session speed-dating cycle that made me feel really out-of-body while attempting to make something. So we’ve been incredibly close ever since. This album is super different [from] Good Riddance. It’s this sweet relief for me to know that in this great collaborative relationship; there’s room to grow and explore. We’re not boxed in.
A certain singer-songwriter is featured on “Us.” It’s rare that Taylor Swift features on another artist’s song. Can you give me some insight on how that came about?
Well, we spent a lot of time together over the past year, she and I, because of touring. She’s a dear friend who I can feel safe with. So we were at dinner talking about our lives and albums. She was in the middle of making The Tortured Poets Department at the time and I was in the middle of this album.
Did she clue you into what she was making at the time? Or was it a surprise for you, just like everybody else?
At dinner we were talking about the process and the songs and their inspiration in a way that felt like we weren’t talking about work. We were so truly thrilled and just having a nerdy, drunken conversation. So because we’re so fired up about it all, we ended up going back to hers and we went song-for-song over the speakers in the kitchen, basically performing them to one another in a very romantic and funny way. Eventually we sat down and were listening to snippets of things that Aaron had sent. We both immediately perked up at the beginning of this one sketch, which ended up being part of the instrumental for the song we wrote. So we said, “Holy shit,” and went to the piano and wrote it in real time by drunkenly banging on the piano until 5 a.m. And we made something we both love a lot. So it was totally spontaneous. It wasn’t like a planned thing, which is great.
I feel like that’s how the best songs are written, when inspiration strikes.
Totally. She had said, “Oh my God, this feels like a Nashville writing session.” I’ve never known that, but fuck yeah! That feels like the right way to explain whatever this was.
I find it amazing that you went from someone who would be so afraid of performing you’d be physically sick at the thought, to being a part of the biggest tour of all time. How did you manage to get over those trepidations?
Time. It’s like reps of anything. Touring has felt like exposure therapy in more ways than one. And not just on the stage-fright front. To be honest, the people I’m lucky enough to be performing in front of tend to be deeply kind. I feel like I’m a very highly sensitive person, regardless if it’s a venue or I’m walking down the street and brushing up against someone. Since writers observe things in extreme detail, I feel like I pick up on the way other people are feeling a lot. And because of the generosity of the people who choose to come to our shows, nine times out of 10, their energy alone is a deeply soothing experience. When I’m either shaky and nervous to perform, or I’ve had a really shitty day and don’t feel like getting on stage, the most unexpected reaction for me is that now, performing actually recharges my social battery. There are a handful of shows where it’s like, Holy fuck! I feel like I’m on a drug the moment I get off stage. But even when it isn’t that electric, there’s still something about the human experience of the exchange between myself, the band, the crew, and the people that come. Automatically the music isn’t about me anymore, which is such a fucking relief. It’s about them, and that breathes new life into what we do. I think that’s what made me fall in love with performing. And to do it on Taylor’s stage…everyone is there for her, and so am I. As a megafan, there’s something so undeniably joyful about the experience, whether it’s as an audience member, being on stage, or backstage. It does feel like you’re on another planet in terms of the joy and positivity that’s exuding out of every corner.
I remember the first time we walked out for a show for the Eras Tour and I was shaking. So for the second one, I was just like, I want to be as present as possible. The fact that I even get an elevated view of everyone’s exchanging of friendship bracelets, their costumes, or even those tears of joy…it’s emotional and fun, and you never want it to end. Especially now, going into this next and final chapter of it this fall, I want to just soak it up.
The Secret of Us is coming out when your career is reaching a new peak, between your recent Grammy nomination, your first Met Gala, and opening for Taylor. Does that make releasing it easier, because your fanbase is growing? Or harder, because there might be more pressure?
The process of making the album was such a gift that I’m not, at least today, feeling the pressure of disappointing other people. The experience I had with my friend and co-writer Audrey [Hobert], Aaron being our producer and Bella [Blasko] our engineer…it felt so gratifying and fulfilling to make it with people that I love and trust as much as I do. I learned a lot about how to process feelings differently than the way I had before; all out loud, not just writing about my feelings in isolation. So anything that comes after will feel just lucky.
This conversation has been edited and condensed.