Who is the game more important for, Ronald Koeman or Jürgen Klopp?
Leon Osman Before the win over Arsenal, I would have said there was more pressure on Ronald Koeman. That result has eased things and also shown Everton what they need to do to win. We hadn’t really seen that style of football, that aggression, from Everton this season. The fact that it’s Liverpool now means they shouldn’t fall back into how they were playing.
Phil Neal Both managers are always under pressure and both teams are always under pressure. That hasn’t changed since my day and it won’t change. Mr Koeman needs to make the Everton fans believe that he is going to give them some good years and Jürgen Klopp will be going to Goodison for the first time. He’ll want to win.
Do you expect this game to be more competitive, more intense, than in recent seasons?
Gary McAllister The one that springs to mind was the 4-0 win for Liverpool at Anfield last season. Having watched, and played in, Merseyside derbies, that game felt like it had the least amount of tackles of any I can remember. It wasn’t just in terms of the football Liverpool played but, physically and mentally, they looked up for it more than Everton.
Osman They had a better game plan going into that game. We were still trying to outplay and outpass teams at that point. We were going to Anfield and the manager [Roberto Martínez] was more concerned with us dominating possession rather than outfighting them that night.
Tony Hibbert He wouldn’t change.
Osman We spoke to him about it. We spoke to him about what was required at a derby at Anfield — I certainly mentioned it — but he was of the opinion that if we played well, we would win the game. But derbies are a little bit different. Liverpool sat back a little bit, let us have the ball and hurt us on the counter. The better derbies are the ones with a bit of bite in them.
Graeme Sharp The intensity isn’t the same any more. Liverpool haven’t got any local lads. The two lads here have left, so Everton have Ross [Barkley] and Bainesy [Leighton Baines]. That feeling you had of winning for your mates has gone. In my day, there were a lot of different British players who knew about the drive and mentality. It’s diluted a bit now and when I look round at Everton’s team we have been crying out for the passion, commitment, drive we saw against Arsenal.
Hibbert This game would be on your mind for days and weeks. At the training ground at Bellefield, and then Finch Farm, there was a board in the changing room and on it would be written, “Six more sleeps” or whatever. You come in the next day, wipe it off, “five more sleeps.” The game meant everything.
Neal I always said to myself, “Don’t show any fear”. They are built up and built up and you have to try not to react. Yes, you have to hold yourself tall and stand strong, don’t be a weakling, but if you can beat them with some football brains that is best.
Leon, how tough was the 4-0 to take?
Osman We had lost our way and to go to Anfield and lose like we did . . . it was deathly quiet afterwards. Some of the lads will remember that. In six derbies under Roberto, I never started one. He said to me I would get too emotional and he didn’t want to risk losing me. I wanted to come on in that one even though the game was gone. I was still doing my star jumps in front of the manager.
Hibbert It was a bad night. The fans were turning away and saying no one was showing this and that. I wish I could have got on as well and in that situation it is about showing some fight for the fans.
Neal Sharpy [Graeme Sharp], we beat you 5-0 at Goodison in 1982 when Rushy [Ian Rush] scored four, but I felt that was a one-off. Most of the games were close — 2-1, 3-2. I always felt Everton were there, with us.
Sharp I remember speaking to Gary before the game last season, you said it will be close and I said, “No, this could be anything.” Everton were struggling for form and the way Liverpool’s front four played, so fluid, the movement and everything else, was a concern.
Are you worried now?
Sharp A little bit but the good thing for Everton — and a bad thing for Liverpool — is the absence of [Philippe] Coutinho. But when you are comparing the front four, Liverpool have the edge. They’re reminiscent of the team of [John] Barnes, [Peter] Beardsley, [Ray] Houghton.
Is it easier facing a 20-goal-a-season striker like Romelu Lukaku or Liverpool’s front line where three or four players can chip in at any one time?
Hibbert As a defender it’s always easier playing against one striker. You can work on stopping the service into one player, but if the goals are coming from anywhere it’s tough.
McAllister I was assistant to Brendan [Rodgers] in the first derby of last season and Romelu Lukaku was outstanding. The game finished as a draw but he played against Liverpool’s back four single-handed and got the better of them. When he is on it, he’s as powerful and as impressive as anyone.
Osman If the Romelu Lukaku I know turns up, he could win the game. The problem is that he has not turned up often enough this season. He has got the goals, but I still want him to do more. At the moment, he is doing just enough. In the final 20 minutes of the Manchester United game, and the second half against Arsenal, he started charging round, using his physique. If he adds that to his goals, he could be incredible.
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Gary, your free kick at Goodison Park in 2001, and Graeme, your volley at Anfield in 1984, are iconic goals, that highlights the power of the fixture and the ability to create heroes.
McAllister I was at Liverpool for two years and I can go all over the world and people mention the goal against Everton. Every year the fixture comes up and they wheel the television replays back out. What never gets shown is that there was a free kick in an identical spot a couple of minutes earlier. I sent [Markus] Babbel, [Emile] Heskey and [Sami] Hyypia up to the back post, chipped one up for them to attack. Sami makes a header and Paul Gerrard a good save. Then we got a free kick again, exact same spot. I noticed the goalkeeper edging to his left and I thought I could spoil the day here. I thought, “He’s going to come and claim it.” Carra [Jamie Carragher] knew what I was looking at and said: “Don’t even think about that.”
Neal We’re glad you did!
Sharp You moved the ball ten yards closer to goal!
McAllister There was a book launch a few years ago which I was attending and Everton’s club shop was nearby, I tried to sneak into the launch and this man shouts: “Oi you.” There was silence in the street. “You baldy, cheating, Scottish, red c***.” The whole street was laughing.
Sharp The most important thing about my goal was we won. We hadn’t won at Anfield for such a long time. We had to get that monkey off our back and once we did that we believed we could challenge Liverpool. It was all about what it led to and what it meant for the team. If Everton win, it could give them the confidence to go on a run.
Ross Barkley will hope to be the hero this time. what do you make of his situation?
Sharp We can all talk but there is only one person who can change it and that’s Ross. Whoever is in Everton’s front four at the moment, it hasn’t been working consistently.
Hibbert It’s a confidence thing. But the manager could deal with it better. I don’t think the way he has done things has helped Ross one bit, maybe he has been too public [with criticism]. It has certainly been obvious what he thinks. He has not had the best of seasons but the manager doesn’t need to make as big a point out of it.
McAllister As a local lad the focus is on him, isn’t it? “Come on Ross: produce, beat two people.”
Osman Our front players are quite individual. There isn’t that understanding of, “When you get the ball, I need to run there and I need to go there.” It seems like, “He’s got the ball, I’ll see what he does with it.”
What about other derby memories?
Neal To actually make my debut in a derby game [November 1974] was absolutely staggering. I was due to play Everton in the Central League at Anfield when there was a knock on the door of my digs on Saturday morning. Tom Saunders, Bob Paisley’s right-hand man, said there was a problem with one of the full backs and the boss wanted me to join the first-team squad at Goodison. He said: “Get your best suit on, we are going to Anfield to pick your boots up.” From there we didn’t get the car, we walked through Stanley Park. Imagine that now. Bob opens the door, he eyeballs me and says, “Get ready to play son. Left back. Now get out there and sample the atmosphere and then get your red shirt on.” I was gobsmacked. I wouldn’t have slept if they had told me the night before. That’s how clever they were. I was 23 and it’s lovely that they trusted me. I went to Smithy [Tommy Smith] who was a senior player for advice. I said, “I’m marking John Connolly” and he said: “Just kick him. Make sure you catch him in the first five minutes.” I didn’t let my team down.
Hibbert The AJ [Andrew Johnson] one when he scored twice and we won 3-0 [2006]. There was a time when we felt we were getting the upper hand, but maybe the lack of finances made it difficult for us to take the next step. I was sent off in one, too. [Mark] Clattenburg was giving me a yellow card until Stevie Gerrard went over. Stevie said, “He’s got to go” and the referee changed it. I can’t say what I said to Clattenburg.
Neal What did you say to Steven?
Hibbert It wasn’t even a tackle. I caught him up, he went across me and I went into him. I know him from growing up in Huyton and I called him everything under the sun. He was just laughing. He knew.
So in this game you do what you have to do to win, is that right?
Osman It’s about bragging rights. Whatever happens in the games after, if you can say, “We won the last one” that means everything to the fans.
The panelists
