0:00/28:44
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transcript

The Army of Poets and Students Fighting a Forgotten War

Young people from the cities are turning the tide against Myanmar’s military dictatorship.

This transcript was created using speech recognition software. While it has been reviewed by human transcribers, it may contain errors. Please review the episode audio before quoting from this transcript and email transcripts@nytimes.com with any questions.

katrin bennhold

From “The New York Times,” I’m Katrin Bennhold. This is “The Daily.”

[THEME MUSIC]

Myanmar is home to one of the deadliest, most intractable civil wars on the planet, but something new and remarkable is happening. An unusual wave of young people from the cities, including students, poets, baristas, have joined the country’s rebel militias. This coalition is now making startling gains against Myanmar’s military dictatorship.

Today, my colleague Hannah Beech takes us inside this surprising resistance movement.

[UPBEAT MUSIC]

It’s Monday, June 24.

Hannah, you’ve been covering a war that is barely getting any attention in the world. We hear a lot about Gaza in Ukraine, but you’ve been covering this war in Myanmar. And now three years in, something is shifting in a really unexpected way. Tell us what’s happening.

hannah beech

I think when we imagine a Civil War in Southeast Asia, we expect, I don’t know, guerrillas in combat fatigues fighting in the jungle. And yes, you do have those g-time rebel fighters, but what’s happening now is that these veteran soldiers have partnered with the new and exciting force, which is young people from the cities who have joined together with these old guys, and they’ve decided to fight the good fight for an ideal called democracy. And remarkably, three years after the civil war began, they’re starting to win.

katrin bennhold

Wow. And just for context, remind us how this war started. Where are we in this story?

hannah beech

So for about 50 years, Myanmar was stuck in this kind of awful, preserved-in-amber military dictatorship. And then, about a decade ago, the Myanmar military leaders, they started to peacefully transfer some of the power to a democratically elected leadership. And that civilian leadership was led by, I think, the one Burmese person that people might know, Daw Aung San Suu Kyi. She’s a Nobel Peace Prize laureate and she’s very eloquent in English. And she was this kind of paragon of democracy and nonviolent resistance to this big, bad military dictatorship.

katrin bennhold

I remember actually how she was celebrated. There were pop art posters of her for sale, and she gave lectures in Oxford. And of course, even Obama visited her.

hannah beech

Exactly. She was up there with the Dalai Lama with Nelson Mandela. And so, yes, you’re right, President Obama visited not once but twice, I mean, to this little country in Southeast Asia that people had barely heard of. But then the Myanmar military unleashed an ethnic cleansing campaign against the ethnic minority Rohingya Muslims.

And Aung San Suu Kyi, who was constantly under pressure from the military, goes to an international court and defends the military against charges of genocide. And it’s at that moment where all these world leaders who’d wanted to associate themselves with the great things that were happening in Myanmar were a little bit embarrassed, and foreign governments just backed away.

katrin bennhold

Right. So Aung San Suu Kyi, who represented in a way, the hope of democracy to many in the west, sides with the military on persecuting the Rohingya. And it’s a real embarrassment for all the people that endorsed and supported her.

hannah beech

Yeah, and I think that’s the context in which this coup happens. So February 2021, the military arrests the civilian leadership of the country, puts down San Suu Kyi in jail, and the people who suddenly loose so much from the resumption of military rule go out on the streets. And there are millions of people on the streets who are peacefully protesting, and the military does what it has done over and over and over again with pro-democracy movements in Myanmar, which is to shoot people on the streets.

And that catalyzes a lot of young people, doctors and lawyers and engineers and airplane mechanics and poets and civil servants, to do something unprecedented, which is to escape from the cities and make their way to the borderlands of Myanmar, where a bunch of ethnic militias have for generations been fighting the military junta. And they join with these ethnic militias and form a unified armed resistance.

katrin bennhold

So students and other young people from the cities join this armed resistance against a real army with a brutal history. It doesn’t really sound like they stand a chance.

hannah beech

It doesn’t. And I think those of us who’ve watched Myanmar for a while sort of expected it to be a David and Goliath story in which Goliath wins. But a few months ago, I started hearing something that surprised me, which is that a coalition of these resistance groups, these militias, had launched an offensive. And within a few months, you had dozens of towns that changed from junta control to rebel control. You had hundreds of Myanmar army outposts that changed hands to resistance control.

And so by the time the kind of dust settled, you had a situation in which more than half of the territory of Myanmar is now in resistance hands.

katrin bennhold

Wow.

hannah beech

It is an unprecedented rate of success for a ragtag group, some of whom two years ago had never even picked up a gun.

katrin bennhold

That’s incredible. So they basically won back more than half of the territory, and they did so in just a few months. How is that possible? What are these rebels doing?

hannah beech

That’s a question that I really want the answer to as well. And that’s the main reason that I worked with our security team and my editors to be able to organize a trip back to Myanmar. We’re traveling on a road that is often mined, so the driver is trying to be as careful as possible. To actually get there, we went in a pretty convoluted route because the main roads in the area where we were, which is called Karenni State, are mostly within sights of the Myanmar military. And so we were worried about being targets, and so we had to take back jungle roads.

And all of a sudden I see in front of me a very brown, flat river. And I’m looking at it, and I see absolutely no bridge. And we’re in this pickup truck. And I think, how in the world are we going to cross this river? So here is a boat, and here is our car, and I see in front of me these long boats with engines on the back. And in between these boats, they have kind of a pieces of wood, like planks. And apparently, our car is going to go on there, which seems like a mathematical impossibility, but we’ll see how it goes.

And we go over these two planks. I hope he’s got good driving skills. Here we go. Here we go. Here we go. And suddenly, we have landed on top, and we’re balanced in between the two boats. And this is our car ferry.

katrin bennhold

A car ferry, Karenni style.

hannah beech

This is the kind of ingenuity that happens in times of war. So we’re back on these jungle roads, and our destination is a place where rebel group called the KNDF, the Karenni Nationalities Defense Force, is setting up a functional government in a place that until really recently had been the site of incredibly intense fighting.

And after hour after hour of going either through jungles or passing these empty villages, suddenly, we started seeing people, and we started seeing livestock, and we started seeing cars. And we pull up in a parking lot. And a guy comes up to me and he uses the former name for Myanmar, which is Burma, and he says, welcome to free Burma.

katrin bennhold

Wow. So you are now in rebel-held territory. And what does free Burma look like?

hannah beech

Free Burma is this weird combination of young students who really want to engage in deep conversations about Marxism and about democracy, except you’re in the middle of the jungle and you hear mortars every now and then. And they’ve had to build everything themselves. They’ve set up refugee camps for displaced people, a whole functioning government and administration in the jungle hills of the poorest state in Myanmar.

And the amazing thing is they’ve built all of this without a functioning power grid. There’s no running water. There are no phone lines, and there’s no normal internet. And so photographer Adam Ferguson and I traveled around, and we went to wedding parties, and we met with young girls who were singing resistance songs.

[MUSIC PLAYING]

I don’t speak Burmese, but I’m listening to these songs, and the melody is sort of transporting me. And then, as I was listening to the lyrics, those Burmese, Burmese, Burmese, and all of a sudden I hear the words democracy.

(SINGING)

Heard it in songs, and I heard it in basic training by these recruits to the KNDF.

[MILITARY CHANTING]

And I asked around, and it turns out that the phrase “democracy” doesn’t really have a translation in Burmese. This is something that people were laying their lives for, but they were also singing it and saying it in English. And it kind of underscored to me how powerful this ideology was for them. And so I wanted to go and embed with this force and see what they were doing and understand the motivations of some of these people who had joined this rebel force.

[UPBEAT MUSIC]

katrin bennhold

We’ll be right back.

Hannah, you said you wanted to embed with these rebel forces. Where did you end up going?

hannah beech

So for all of Karenni State, there’s essentially one hospital to which all casualties are taken. And to get there, you travel down a jungle path and you bump, bump, bump, bump in. There are buildings, some of them are made of brick, but mostly it’s bamboo.

This is a secret hospital in the jungle somewhere in Karenni State and out of nothing, out of the forest, they’ve built an emergency room over there. Here’s an operating theater. And there is a functional hospital that has been built by young doctors and nurses and medics from the cities who all came with a common purpose, which was to join the resistance movement.

And one of the people who made the biggest impression on me was a young woman named Lin Nielsen. She worked as a medic, treating wounded soldiers and victims of landmines.

speaker 1

Everybody knows Ms. Lin?

speaker 2

Yes.

hannah beech

She’s been part of the resistance in Karenni since the very beginning, and she was really striking. We were in the canteen, which was this shack with a dirt floor, and she was wearing these pink pajamas and fluffy slippers.

katrin bennhold

So she has a very big social media presence? Yes, she does. She does.

lin nielsen

Not that much.

hannah beech

And Lin was from a big city in Myanmar. How did you decide to join the resistance movement and what propelled you to do that?

lin nielsen

I am just 25 years of youth.

hannah beech

She describes herself as just a normal kid.

lin nielsen

Make up —

speaker 3

Kpop.

lin nielsen

Kpop, yeah.

hannah beech

She sold cosmetics online, she went to med school.

lin nielsen

In 2021 February, I joined to the protest. And like —

hannah beech

When the coup happens, she joins the protest movement, like many young people —

lin nielsen

They started shooting and starting killing the people —

hannah beech

But when the crackdowns happened, most of her friends, she says, just went home and kept their heads down.

lin nielsen

So they told me not to do so. Just go back to the university and just finish your degree.

hannah beech

And there was something in Lin that was not able to just go back to her old life.

lin nielsen

So I choose my way, you choose your way and yeah.

hannah beech

And so she made this decision to run away and became part of this resistance movement.

katrin bennhold

And what was that transition like? That’s quite a big thing, to go to the jungle and completely change your life.

hannah beech

I think it was really, really hard. It is an intense experience for a comfortable city girl to end up in the middle of jungle warfare. And she has been working — She actually doesn’t have her medical degree because she left before she was able to get it, but every day, she is working triage, and she is wrapping bullet wounds and getting pieces of shrapnel out of wounded soldiers.

She has a saw that she uses for amputations for the victims of landmines.

katrin bennhold

A saw?

hannah beech

A saw, yes. Everybody has their own saw. And she is getting a medical education that you would never get in a theoretical world of a medical university. She is trained to plunge her hands into the chest cavities of wounded soldiers to extract pieces of shrapnel.

And what she has is a commitment to this idea of democracy that I think is extraordinarily powerful. And she is literally laying down her life for that cause. And Lin is just one member of hundreds of groups with tens of thousands of people in them in this resistance, which, at this moment of time, seem to really be turning the tide against the military.

katrin bennhold

It’s so clear that these rebels are fighting for something they really believe in, but how is this coalition? How are these groups, like the KNDF you spend time with, actually winning territory back from a professional military?

hannah beech

You’re right. The Myanmar military is very well equipped. It has fighter jets. It has big, bad war-making machines, but one of the things that the rebels have is a game changer and an equalizer in modern warfare. And that’s a cheap homemade drone.

katrin bennhold

You mean like a very simple drone, the kind that I bought for my daughter at Best Buy?

hannah beech

Yeah. So if you take that drone that you got for your daughter at Best Buy and you hand it to a Karenni rebel soldier and they go on the internet and they start communicating with somebody in Ukraine, they take that very simple drone and they start adding bits and pieces to it, and they change something that is used for photography and they turn it into a machine that can drop bombs on the enemy frontlines.

katrin bennhold

Wow. So they’re actually communicating with other pro-democracy fighters, if you will, in Ukraine and other places about how to do this?

hannah beech

Yeah. And it was really remarkable because when I went to the drone base of the KNDF, they were using laser cutters, they were using 3D printers, and they were creating a modern fleet of drones that has the potential to fight against something like a fighter jet. And that really is a game changer.

katrin bennhold

It’s interesting. So these rebel drones are clearly proving to be a real headache for the military. Is that the main reason or is there anything else that explains the rebel’s success?

hannah beech

I think the main reason is this really unlikely alliance that has formed between the kids from the cities who have come to the jungles and this array of ethnic militias. Some of these ethnic militias, in a complicated way, don’t like each other. And so not only are they fighting the junta, but they’re also fighting themselves.

And what has changed for the first time since the coup is that these ethnic militias that had these kind of internecine problems have decided to unify for a common goal, which is to fight the junta. And they’re beginning to train and help the young people who are coming from the cities. And that’s really something that’s never happened before.

Most of these young people from the cities may have played video games. That was their experience of war beforehand. And they’re coming into the jungle and they don’t know how to fight. They shouldn’t know how to fight, but they were given training and weapons and military knowhow, how to throw a grenade, how to protect yourself, basic first aid. All of these things were being taught to them. And these city kids have been fighting and dying alongside members of these ethnic militias. And I think this trust that has developed between them has really changed the tenor of the war.

katrin bennhold

So given that they’re gaining territory, given that this alliance for the first time seems to be holding, is there a chance that they actually win? That’s a very good question. As difficult as what has happened has been for the resistance, I think it’s the easy part. Capturing remote areas is a lot easier than moving into the heartland of the country, where the big cities are. And that’s going to be a really difficult thing for the resistance to be able to push into and claim.

So what lies ahead is the really tough part.

hannah beech

Oh yes. Let’s say somehow, the resistance is able to push in and put the junta on its back heels in the heartland and kick them out of some big cities, at a certain point, I think members of the alliance are going to realize that they have fundamentally different goals. Some of the ethnic militias want to become independent of a country called Myanmar, some of them want to control the gains of enlisted economy.

Myanmar is one of the biggest producers of methamphetamine, of fentanyl, of opium. And then there are also some people who really want democracy. And so it’s very hard to imagine, even if they succeed militarily, for these groups to be able to agree on what they envision Myanmar to look like.

katrin bennhold

So does that mean the idea of some future united democracy is not actually realistic? Across these different groups, everybody agrees the idea of federal democracy is a good thing. I don’t know when it comes down to actually forming a new government should the resistance be able to do so, whether the temptation of power will prove to be a more potent force than this gauzy idea of federal democracy. And I think the reality right now, and even should the resistance win, is a Myanmar that is fractured and splintered.

So what does that mean for the young people fighting in the jungle? Are they talking about this? Are they conscious of the risks of their country being fractured and splintered? And are they prepared for such an outcome?

hannah beech

It’s very easy for political theorists to talk about, is this a fractured state or is this a splintered state or is this a functioning democracy, but I think for the people who are actually on the ground, they are fighting for very specific things, which is a resumption of their lives as they were before the coup. And that was a life in which things were slowly getting better, and they had certain freedoms, and they were able to vote, and they were able to participate in a yes, flawed democracy but a democracy nonetheless. And that is what they’re fighting for.

And revolutions fail and they fail and they fail until they succeed. And I think for the young people who are in Myanmar, they are willing to give their lives for what maybe to me seems a slim chance, but for them, it’s what keeps them going day after day in the jungles, to fight for a better future for young people and for all the people in Myanmar.

katrin bennhold

Hannah, thank you.

hannah beech

Thank you, Katrin.

[MUSIC PLAYING]

katrin bennhold

We’ll be right back.

Here’s what else you need to know today. On Sunday, Israel’s Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu lashed out at the United States for the second time in a week. Netanyahu accused the Biden administration of withholding weapons for the war in Gaza. His comments came as Israel’s minister of defense arrived in Washington for meetings with senior US officials.

Tensions over Israel’s conduct during its war in Gaza have been rising between Netanyahu and Biden in recent weeks. A day before Netanyahu’s latest complaints, Israeli soldiers tied a wounded Palestinian to the top of a military vehicle in the WesBank. The scene was captured on video and quickly went viral, causing outrage. The Israeli military said the act violated military procedure and that there would be an investigation.

[UPBEAT MUSIC]

Today’s episode was produced by Shannon Lin, Nina Feldman, Rachelle Bonja, with help from Asthaa Chaturvedi. It was edited by M.J. Davis Lin, with help from Patricia Willens, contains original music by Dan Powell and Diane Wang and was engineered by Chris Wood. Our theme music is by Jim Brunberg and Ben Landsverk of Wonderly.

[MUSIC PLAYING]

That’s it for “The Daily.” I’m Katrin Bennhold. See you tomorrow.

The Army of Poets and Students Fighting a Forgotten War

Young people from the cities are turning the tide against Myanmar’s military dictatorship.

0:00/28:44
-0:00

transcript

The Army of Poets and Students Fighting a Forgotten War

Young people from the cities are turning the tide against Myanmar’s military dictatorship.

This transcript was created using speech recognition software. While it has been reviewed by human transcribers, it may contain errors. Please review the episode audio before quoting from this transcript and email transcripts@nytimes.com with any questions.

katrin bennhold

From “The New York Times,” I’m Katrin Bennhold. This is “The Daily.”

[THEME MUSIC]

Myanmar is home to one of the deadliest, most intractable civil wars on the planet, but something new and remarkable is happening. An unusual wave of young people from the cities, including students, poets, baristas, have joined the country’s rebel militias. This coalition is now making startling gains against Myanmar’s military dictatorship.

Today, my colleague Hannah Beech takes us inside this surprising resistance movement.

[UPBEAT MUSIC]

It’s Monday, June 24.

Hannah, you’ve been covering a war that is barely getting any attention in the world. We hear a lot about Gaza in Ukraine, but you’ve been covering this war in Myanmar. And now three years in, something is shifting in a really unexpected way. Tell us what’s happening.

hannah beech

I think when we imagine a Civil War in Southeast Asia, we expect, I don’t know, guerrillas in combat fatigues fighting in the jungle. And yes, you do have those g-time rebel fighters, but what’s happening now is that these veteran soldiers have partnered with the new and exciting force, which is young people from the cities who have joined together with these old guys, and they’ve decided to fight the good fight for an ideal called democracy. And remarkably, three years after the civil war began, they’re starting to win.

katrin bennhold

Wow. And just for context, remind us how this war started. Where are we in this story?

hannah beech

So for about 50 years, Myanmar was stuck in this kind of awful, preserved-in-amber military dictatorship. And then, about a decade ago, the Myanmar military leaders, they started to peacefully transfer some of the power to a democratically elected leadership. And that civilian leadership was led by, I think, the one Burmese person that people might know, Daw Aung San Suu Kyi. She’s a Nobel Peace Prize laureate and she’s very eloquent in English. And she was this kind of paragon of democracy and nonviolent resistance to this big, bad military dictatorship.

katrin bennhold

I remember actually how she was celebrated. There were pop art posters of her for sale, and she gave lectures in Oxford. And of course, even Obama visited her.

hannah beech

Exactly. She was up there with the Dalai Lama with Nelson Mandela. And so, yes, you’re right, President Obama visited not once but twice, I mean, to this little country in Southeast Asia that people had barely heard of. But then the Myanmar military unleashed an ethnic cleansing campaign against the ethnic minority Rohingya Muslims.

And Aung San Suu Kyi, who was constantly under pressure from the military, goes to an international court and defends the military against charges of genocide. And it’s at that moment where all these world leaders who’d wanted to associate themselves with the great things that were happening in Myanmar were a little bit embarrassed, and foreign governments just backed away.

katrin bennhold

Right. So Aung San Suu Kyi, who represented in a way, the hope of democracy to many in the west, sides with the military on persecuting the Rohingya. And it’s a real embarrassment for all the people that endorsed and supported her.

hannah beech

Yeah, and I think that’s the context in which this coup happens. So February 2021, the military arrests the civilian leadership of the country, puts down San Suu Kyi in jail, and the people who suddenly loose so much from the resumption of military rule go out on the streets. And there are millions of people on the streets who are peacefully protesting, and the military does what it has done over and over and over again with pro-democracy movements in Myanmar, which is to shoot people on the streets.

And that catalyzes a lot of young people, doctors and lawyers and engineers and airplane mechanics and poets and civil servants, to do something unprecedented, which is to escape from the cities and make their way to the borderlands of Myanmar, where a bunch of ethnic militias have for generations been fighting the military junta. And they join with these ethnic militias and form a unified armed resistance.

katrin bennhold

So students and other young people from the cities join this armed resistance against a real army with a brutal history. It doesn’t really sound like they stand a chance.

hannah beech

It doesn’t. And I think those of us who’ve watched Myanmar for a while sort of expected it to be a David and Goliath story in which Goliath wins. But a few months ago, I started hearing something that surprised me, which is that a coalition of these resistance groups, these militias, had launched an offensive. And within a few months, you had dozens of towns that changed from junta control to rebel control. You had hundreds of Myanmar army outposts that changed hands to resistance control.

And so by the time the kind of dust settled, you had a situation in which more than half of the territory of Myanmar is now in resistance hands.

katrin bennhold

Wow.

hannah beech

It is an unprecedented rate of success for a ragtag group, some of whom two years ago had never even picked up a gun.

katrin bennhold

That’s incredible. So they basically won back more than half of the territory, and they did so in just a few months. How is that possible? What are these rebels doing?

hannah beech

That’s a question that I really want the answer to as well. And that’s the main reason that I worked with our security team and my editors to be able to organize a trip back to Myanmar. We’re traveling on a road that is often mined, so the driver is trying to be as careful as possible. To actually get there, we went in a pretty convoluted route because the main roads in the area where we were, which is called Karenni State, are mostly within sights of the Myanmar military. And so we were worried about being targets, and so we had to take back jungle roads.

And all of a sudden I see in front of me a very brown, flat river. And I’m looking at it, and I see absolutely no bridge. And we’re in this pickup truck. And I think, how in the world are we going to cross this river? So here is a boat, and here is our car, and I see in front of me these long boats with engines on the back. And in between these boats, they have kind of a pieces of wood, like planks. And apparently, our car is going to go on there, which seems like a mathematical impossibility, but we’ll see how it goes.

And we go over these two planks. I hope he’s got good driving skills. Here we go. Here we go. Here we go. And suddenly, we have landed on top, and we’re balanced in between the two boats. And this is our car ferry.

katrin bennhold

A car ferry, Karenni style.

hannah beech

This is the kind of ingenuity that happens in times of war. So we’re back on these jungle roads, and our destination is a place where rebel group called the KNDF, the Karenni Nationalities Defense Force, is setting up a functional government in a place that until really recently had been the site of incredibly intense fighting.

And after hour after hour of going either through jungles or passing these empty villages, suddenly, we started seeing people, and we started seeing livestock, and we started seeing cars. And we pull up in a parking lot. And a guy comes up to me and he uses the former name for Myanmar, which is Burma, and he says, welcome to free Burma.

katrin bennhold

Wow. So you are now in rebel-held territory. And what does free Burma look like?

hannah beech

Free Burma is this weird combination of young students who really want to engage in deep conversations about Marxism and about democracy, except you’re in the middle of the jungle and you hear mortars every now and then. And they’ve had to build everything themselves. They’ve set up refugee camps for displaced people, a whole functioning government and administration in the jungle hills of the poorest state in Myanmar.

And the amazing thing is they’ve built all of this without a functioning power grid. There’s no running water. There are no phone lines, and there’s no normal internet. And so photographer Adam Ferguson and I traveled around, and we went to wedding parties, and we met with young girls who were singing resistance songs.

[MUSIC PLAYING]

I don’t speak Burmese, but I’m listening to these songs, and the melody is sort of transporting me. And then, as I was listening to the lyrics, those Burmese, Burmese, Burmese, and all of a sudden I hear the words democracy.

(SINGING)

Heard it in songs, and I heard it in basic training by these recruits to the KNDF.

[MILITARY CHANTING]

And I asked around, and it turns out that the phrase “democracy” doesn’t really have a translation in Burmese. This is something that people were laying their lives for, but they were also singing it and saying it in English. And it kind of underscored to me how powerful this ideology was for them. And so I wanted to go and embed with this force and see what they were doing and understand the motivations of some of these people who had joined this rebel force.

[UPBEAT MUSIC]

katrin bennhold

We’ll be right back.

Hannah, you said you wanted to embed with these rebel forces. Where did you end up going?

hannah beech

So for all of Karenni State, there’s essentially one hospital to which all casualties are taken. And to get there, you travel down a jungle path and you bump, bump, bump, bump in. There are buildings, some of them are made of brick, but mostly it’s bamboo.

This is a secret hospital in the jungle somewhere in Karenni State and out of nothing, out of the forest, they’ve built an emergency room over there. Here’s an operating theater. And there is a functional hospital that has been built by young doctors and nurses and medics from the cities who all came with a common purpose, which was to join the resistance movement.

And one of the people who made the biggest impression on me was a young woman named Lin Nielsen. She worked as a medic, treating wounded soldiers and victims of landmines.

speaker 1

Everybody knows Ms. Lin?

speaker 2

Yes.

hannah beech

She’s been part of the resistance in Karenni since the very beginning, and she was really striking. We were in the canteen, which was this shack with a dirt floor, and she was wearing these pink pajamas and fluffy slippers.

katrin bennhold

So she has a very big social media presence? Yes, she does. She does.

lin nielsen

Not that much.

hannah beech

And Lin was from a big city in Myanmar. How did you decide to join the resistance movement and what propelled you to do that?

lin nielsen

I am just 25 years of youth.

hannah beech

She describes herself as just a normal kid.

lin nielsen

Make up —

speaker 3

Kpop.

lin nielsen

Kpop, yeah.

hannah beech

She sold cosmetics online, she went to med school.

lin nielsen

In 2021 February, I joined to the protest. And like —

hannah beech

When the coup happens, she joins the protest movement, like many young people —

lin nielsen

They started shooting and starting killing the people —

hannah beech

But when the crackdowns happened, most of her friends, she says, just went home and kept their heads down.

lin nielsen

So they told me not to do so. Just go back to the university and just finish your degree.

hannah beech

And there was something in Lin that was not able to just go back to her old life.

lin nielsen

So I choose my way, you choose your way and yeah.

hannah beech

And so she made this decision to run away and became part of this resistance movement.

katrin bennhold

And what was that transition like? That’s quite a big thing, to go to the jungle and completely change your life.

hannah beech

I think it was really, really hard. It is an intense experience for a comfortable city girl to end up in the middle of jungle warfare. And she has been working — She actually doesn’t have her medical degree because she left before she was able to get it, but every day, she is working triage, and she is wrapping bullet wounds and getting pieces of shrapnel out of wounded soldiers.

She has a saw that she uses for amputations for the victims of landmines.

katrin bennhold

A saw?

hannah beech

A saw, yes. Everybody has their own saw. And she is getting a medical education that you would never get in a theoretical world of a medical university. She is trained to plunge her hands into the chest cavities of wounded soldiers to extract pieces of shrapnel.

And what she has is a commitment to this idea of democracy that I think is extraordinarily powerful. And she is literally laying down her life for that cause. And Lin is just one member of hundreds of groups with tens of thousands of people in them in this resistance, which, at this moment of time, seem to really be turning the tide against the military.

katrin bennhold

It’s so clear that these rebels are fighting for something they really believe in, but how is this coalition? How are these groups, like the KNDF you spend time with, actually winning territory back from a professional military?

hannah beech

You’re right. The Myanmar military is very well equipped. It has fighter jets. It has big, bad war-making machines, but one of the things that the rebels have is a game changer and an equalizer in modern warfare. And that’s a cheap homemade drone.

katrin bennhold

You mean like a very simple drone, the kind that I bought for my daughter at Best Buy?

hannah beech

Yeah. So if you take that drone that you got for your daughter at Best Buy and you hand it to a Karenni rebel soldier and they go on the internet and they start communicating with somebody in Ukraine, they take that very simple drone and they start adding bits and pieces to it, and they change something that is used for photography and they turn it into a machine that can drop bombs on the enemy frontlines.

katrin bennhold

Wow. So they’re actually communicating with other pro-democracy fighters, if you will, in Ukraine and other places about how to do this?

hannah beech

Yeah. And it was really remarkable because when I went to the drone base of the KNDF, they were using laser cutters, they were using 3D printers, and they were creating a modern fleet of drones that has the potential to fight against something like a fighter jet. And that really is a game changer.

katrin bennhold

It’s interesting. So these rebel drones are clearly proving to be a real headache for the military. Is that the main reason or is there anything else that explains the rebel’s success?

hannah beech

I think the main reason is this really unlikely alliance that has formed between the kids from the cities who have come to the jungles and this array of ethnic militias. Some of these ethnic militias, in a complicated way, don’t like each other. And so not only are they fighting the junta, but they’re also fighting themselves.

And what has changed for the first time since the coup is that these ethnic militias that had these kind of internecine problems have decided to unify for a common goal, which is to fight the junta. And they’re beginning to train and help the young people who are coming from the cities. And that’s really something that’s never happened before.

Most of these young people from the cities may have played video games. That was their experience of war beforehand. And they’re coming into the jungle and they don’t know how to fight. They shouldn’t know how to fight, but they were given training and weapons and military knowhow, how to throw a grenade, how to protect yourself, basic first aid. All of these things were being taught to them. And these city kids have been fighting and dying alongside members of these ethnic militias. And I think this trust that has developed between them has really changed the tenor of the war.

katrin bennhold

So given that they’re gaining territory, given that this alliance for the first time seems to be holding, is there a chance that they actually win? That’s a very good question. As difficult as what has happened has been for the resistance, I think it’s the easy part. Capturing remote areas is a lot easier than moving into the heartland of the country, where the big cities are. And that’s going to be a really difficult thing for the resistance to be able to push into and claim.

So what lies ahead is the really tough part.

hannah beech

Oh yes. Let’s say somehow, the resistance is able to push in and put the junta on its back heels in the heartland and kick them out of some big cities, at a certain point, I think members of the alliance are going to realize that they have fundamentally different goals. Some of the ethnic militias want to become independent of a country called Myanmar, some of them want to control the gains of enlisted economy.

Myanmar is one of the biggest producers of methamphetamine, of fentanyl, of opium. And then there are also some people who really want democracy. And so it’s very hard to imagine, even if they succeed militarily, for these groups to be able to agree on what they envision Myanmar to look like.

katrin bennhold

So does that mean the idea of some future united democracy is not actually realistic? Across these different groups, everybody agrees the idea of federal democracy is a good thing. I don’t know when it comes down to actually forming a new government should the resistance be able to do so, whether the temptation of power will prove to be a more potent force than this gauzy idea of federal democracy. And I think the reality right now, and even should the resistance win, is a Myanmar that is fractured and splintered.

So what does that mean for the young people fighting in the jungle? Are they talking about this? Are they conscious of the risks of their country being fractured and splintered? And are they prepared for such an outcome?

hannah beech

It’s very easy for political theorists to talk about, is this a fractured state or is this a splintered state or is this a functioning democracy, but I think for the people who are actually on the ground, they are fighting for very specific things, which is a resumption of their lives as they were before the coup. And that was a life in which things were slowly getting better, and they had certain freedoms, and they were able to vote, and they were able to participate in a yes, flawed democracy but a democracy nonetheless. And that is what they’re fighting for.

And revolutions fail and they fail and they fail until they succeed. And I think for the young people who are in Myanmar, they are willing to give their lives for what maybe to me seems a slim chance, but for them, it’s what keeps them going day after day in the jungles, to fight for a better future for young people and for all the people in Myanmar.

katrin bennhold

Hannah, thank you.

hannah beech

Thank you, Katrin.

[MUSIC PLAYING]

katrin bennhold

We’ll be right back.

Here’s what else you need to know today. On Sunday, Israel’s Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu lashed out at the United States for the second time in a week. Netanyahu accused the Biden administration of withholding weapons for the war in Gaza. His comments came as Israel’s minister of defense arrived in Washington for meetings with senior US officials.

Tensions over Israel’s conduct during its war in Gaza have been rising between Netanyahu and Biden in recent weeks. A day before Netanyahu’s latest complaints, Israeli soldiers tied a wounded Palestinian to the top of a military vehicle in the WesBank. The scene was captured on video and quickly went viral, causing outrage. The Israeli military said the act violated military procedure and that there would be an investigation.

[UPBEAT MUSIC]

Today’s episode was produced by Shannon Lin, Nina Feldman, Rachelle Bonja, with help from Asthaa Chaturvedi. It was edited by M.J. Davis Lin, with help from Patricia Willens, contains original music by Dan Powell and Diane Wang and was engineered by Chris Wood. Our theme music is by Jim Brunberg and Ben Landsverk of Wonderly.

[MUSIC PLAYING]

That’s it for “The Daily.” I’m Katrin Bennhold. See you tomorrow.

Shannon M. LinNina Feldman and

M.J. Davis Lin and

Dan Powell and


Warning: this episode contains descriptions of injuries.

Myanmar is home to one of the deadliest, most intractable civil wars on the planet. But something new is happening. Unusual numbers of young people from the cities, including students, poets and baristas, have joined the country’s rebel militias. And this coalition is making startling gains against the country’s military dictatorship.

Hannah Beech, who covers stories across Asia for The Times, discusses this surprising resistance movement.


Hannah Beech, a Bangkok-based reporter for The New York Times, focusing on investigative and in-depth stories in Asia.

ImageThree boys sit in the back of a pick-up truck. They are wearing dark green and cargo patterns. The boy in the middle is holding up an automatic weapon.
Resistance soldiers riding in the back of a pickup truck in southern Karenni State, in Myanmar, in January.Credit...Adam Ferguson for The New York Times

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The Daily is made by Rachel Quester, Lynsea Garrison, Clare Toeniskoetter, Paige Cowett, Michael Simon Johnson, Brad Fisher, Chris Wood, Jessica Cheung, Stella Tan, Alexandra Leigh Young, Lisa Chow, Eric Krupke, Marc Georges, Luke Vander Ploeg, M.J. Davis Lin, Dan Powell, Sydney Harper, Mike Benoist, Liz O. Baylen, Asthaa Chaturvedi, Rachelle Bonja, Diana Nguyen, Marion Lozano, Corey Schreppel, Rob Szypko, Elisheba Ittoop, Mooj Zadie, Patricia Willens, Rowan Niemisto, Jody Becker, Rikki Novetsky, John Ketchum, Nina Feldman, Will Reid, Carlos Prieto, Ben Calhoun, Susan Lee, Lexie Diao, Mary Wilson, Alex Stern, Sophia Lanman, Shannon Lin, Diane Wong, Devon Taylor, Alyssa Moxley, Summer Thomad, Olivia Natt, Daniel Ramirez and Brendan Klinkenberg.

Our theme music is by Jim Brunberg and Ben Landsverk of Wonderly. Special thanks to Sam Dolnick, Paula Szuchman, Lisa Tobin, Larissa Anderson, Julia Simon, Sofia Milan, Mahima Chablani, Elizabeth Davis-Moorer, Jeffrey Miranda, Maddy Masiello, Isabella Anderson, Nina Lassam and Nick Pitman.

Katrin Bennhold is the Berlin bureau chief. A former Nieman fellow at Harvard University, she previously reported from London and Paris, covering a range of topics from the rise of populism to gender. More about Katrin Bennhold

Hannah Beech is a Times reporter based in Bangkok who has been covering Asia for more than 25 years. She focuses on in-depth and investigative stories. More about Hannah Beech

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