Jessica Pharm MBA, PHR’s Post

Side Note: As an employee, it's your responsibility to know your company's policies and procedures when it comes to PTO/taking time off. You may not like it but you technically agreed to it when you went to work for the company. Violating the policy can result in you getting fired and without being able to claim unemployment (especially if your employer fights you on it). 

Another Side Note: On average, Americans have a hard time taking PTO. Many Americans actually don’t even take their PTO, but that is for many reasons, including our work culture here in America, and employees feeling like they can’t take their PTO but that’s a conversation for another time. And many low wage workers don’t even have PTO which disproportionately impacts people of color, women, and people with disabilities in the workforce. And that can have a negative systemic impact, but again that’s a conversation for another time. This isn't the mindset in Europe, like at all. https://youtu.be/mv5WugmW26U?si=wbKZ78o7onhLPPIX

Jessica Pharm MBA, PHR as the leader of a small emergency response center, we have a policy of 1 person off per shift per day. There is a caveat in that you can be off, if you find a replacement. If you are sick that's different and please stay home but that also means that someone else will have mandatory OT. I support my team fully and encourage people to use their time AND I have a responsibility to the public we serve to ensure we have the staffing needed to take care of them. I hope this helps :) P.S. I never ask for a reason. That's their business and doesn't change a thing. HR in my org has a policy to bring in a doctors note after 3 sick days in a row but I tell my team to send that right to HR. It does not need to go through me or the front line supervisors.

I can't seem to be able to reply to those that replied to my comment. I don't agree with the above practice, I have never refused anyone leave in 30 years, no matter how challenging. I would never ask why anyone wants leave but usually they've already told me or I already know because I try to have a very open, supportive and postive relatationship with my team. So, if they need me, I'm there for them. *Original Post* One would hope, this is just a meme, as this can't be the case in the real world, today. A situation where a person asks for leave, its refused, they take it and they get fired. Why was leave denied and why was the leave needed, what was there job, why was it refused. I can see a case for reprimand, but firing, there MUST be a back story here, previous history. I mean, was there no dialogue, no understanding, I can envisage a scenario where a person is that badly needed, but surely if the person really needs the time, someone can cover. If a person was in a position where they understood the importance of their role, in some wild scenario where they are that important, then surely everyone knows they would not ask unless they really had to take the time off or they wouldn’t be in the job to start with.

Nor do employers have the right to expect employees to be available at a moment's notice to come into work even on their scheduled days off. But employers like grocery stores and other retailers do this every day, and nobody steps in to put a stop to it. Nobody should be expected to leave a doctor's office and miss an appointment they set up months previously in order to cover The Business Needs of their employer because someone else called in sick at the last minute.

I really struggle with the asking for something that I'm entitled to…. I have no issue notifying.

im shoked people think that needing approval to take vacation isnt normal. its been that way well before i came into the workforce. you’re part of a team and your absence affects other people. that has to be planned for. you’re also an adult and are expected to show up to work. if you decide to act like a child and not show up, yoi get fired. maybe the employer realized that the employee wasnt the right person for his company after the employee showed his true colors.

I’ll leave my thoughts. I am very flexible and open minded when it comes to my teams needs. They want to take vacation last minute, no problem .. kid is sick, please take care of your family - family first .. they are sick, feel better and let me know if you need anything. I don’t get caught up in the day to day. I’ve cross-trained critical functions and the team steps up for those whenever anyone has something. On the flip side, no one abuses policy. I have had that in the past and handled it through documentation. At the end of the day, we employee people, who have lives and family just like we do. They need money the same as us to survive. Why make anyone’s life harder and cause undue stress and hardship? Leading through fear is not leading. And as a leader if I have to step up because someone is out then that’s what I do to get the job done. Employers would be surprised at the kind of loyalty they retain if they adopt this attitude. Being flexible and open minded when you manage others is a special responsibility that requires treating others as humans.

Some thoughts as a manager: 1) PTO is a part of your compensation package. I am no more justified in denying you PTO than I would be denying you access to a paycheck. 2) While I am free to ask if you're able work with me re coverage, that responsibility ultimately falls on me. If we're stretched so thin that you're the only person capable, that's a management issue to sort while you're sipping drinks and relaxing (or whatever you wish to do.) 3) If you're on PTO, there's always your work phone.... which you should under no circumstances answer. You're on PTO. We've got this. And if we don't, we should look at why we can;t sustain your temporary absence. Again, that's a company issue, not a you issue.

I had an awkward conversation with senior leadership about this. They had asked me, "How can we stop employees from calling in sick when we deny their leave?" Approve their leave and it won't be a last-minute call-out, that's how. They were quite upset with that answer.