November 14, 2022 • 46 mins
Reality TV star, businesswoman and author Ramona Singer joins Hilaria and Michelle. Take a ride on the “Ramona Coaster” … the bumpy ride on Real Housewives and life after divorce and dating included!
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Which is anonymous, with the Laria Baldwin and Michelle Campbell
Mason and I Heart Radio podcast Hey, which is Welcome
back to which is anonymous. This week we have a
very special guest we'd like to welcome Ramona Singer. I
was so excited to be on with you, Hilaria Michelle.
I think your podcast a huge success, so thanks for
(00:21):
having me. All right, So, Ramona, I met you. I
don't know if you remember, but I met you in
the Upper east Side and I was with two of
my dear friends and two cute boys who later on
I officiated their weddings. This is like, these are some
of my best best friends, and they recognized you because
(00:42):
they're like huge, huge fans. You came over. We have
a picture together, and I was actually trying to find
that picture that we took, and you were so nice
and so warm and so welcoming, and I was so
intimidated because I was twenty eight years old and I
had just sort of stepped into this world that you
(01:05):
were in, that my husband was in, and you gave
me your phone number and I never hit the ball
back because I was so intimidated by you. And over
the years, you know, we've run into each other a
few times. And you know that when I started this project,
you were the first person that I thought of because
I was like, you know what, she was always there
(01:26):
to support me, and so I used the phone number.
And now and now here we are. So all of
the things that intimidated me about you have led me
to to let us to want to have you here
to inspire all of us and talk about women and
our relationships with each other. Well, you know, anybody who
knows me knows that my girlfriends for the most important
(01:48):
thing in the world. Yes, you all want to find
love in marriage, but women, men are talkers, you know.
Men are just kind of going to the mail caves
in men case, women you can talk to like, you know,
I just had this fight and we'll just if you
rationalize with them. They teach you things and bounce off them.
And and we we loved to chit chat. And you know,
let's just say, you know, you're at a bad spot
in your life with with your marriage like I did.
(02:10):
My girlfriend's made me survived. I mean I didn't have
a relationship for two years later. Without my girlfriend's I
would have died. Literally, I would like gone into bed
and cried my whole life. And I taught my daughter
the same thing. And I really think, now you're refreshing me.
And why I realized girlfriends are important because I was
literally I just graduated from college at y T. I
(02:30):
finally became a buyer for Macy's, and um, I had
this great boyfriend, and you know, he took me all
around the world. Whose my age. It was very worldly
and affluent. We let this great lifestyle and I was
basically living with him. I kept my own place. So
we broke up for whatever reasons. So when I broke
up with him, I went back to my apartment and
(02:51):
Hilaria as socialized like him. I had no one to
call on the phone, no one to call, no one.
I had no girlfriend in my life, no gay end
in my life, no uh girlfriend, nobody, married people, no one.
And I said, I'm never going to let this happen
to me again. So my ex husband, he even knewhen
I was married, like about with my girlfriends. So going
(03:12):
out with the Selache Knight, I'm going out with Kathleen
because okay, have fun, have fun, do it. He allowed
me to be me. Girlfriends empower you, They embrace you.
They build you, they give you confidence, and they're like
like they're like water, They're necessary, like water isn't food.
In my opinion, I agree with you and Michelle. You
have been with me through so many difficult things and
(03:34):
and again it's one of the reasons that we started
this this podcast is that we just were like, we
need to have a coven where we all come and
we share a lot of advice, and we share tears,
and we and we figure it out. What is the
perfect analogy, right? I mean, we cannot thrive or function
without them. Also, you can over water, right, so we
we have to we have to conserve sometimes and not
(03:56):
overdo it and balance our lives. You go all friends
and mess up your relations frien ships. So I think
we're all kind of always looking for the perfect balance, right. Yeah.
You know what I always do is I include my
particular boyfriend if I have a boyfriend now or even
with my ex husband, he knew my girlfriends as some
of them were single, they worked there, they were divorced,
but I would just I would take them in and
(04:16):
he would take them too. He would embrace them. So
I think it's important when you find a spouse or
a significant other that they share your view. That's important
for you to have women friends. And I'm really one woman.
And she said, when her husband comes home and she's
on the phone, she can't see on the phone. She
has to hang up the phone and meet it. But
really that's the ticket. But yeah, some men can be
(04:37):
very controlling of their significant others and jealous of the
relationships and other women. They're not allowed to talk to them,
see them. Yeah, and that's just not good. In my opinion,
Bachelor and Bachelor Rette parties were like the biggest joke
in the world. So I went to a restaurant with
a bunch of my friends at like seven pm and
it was like a vegan restaurant when it was like
there was nothing fun about the experience. That sound like
(04:59):
such a blastm steam carrots. But and then Alec went
with his brother Billy and his daughter Ireland to go
watch a movie. And then by eight pm he like
showed up at the restaurant. He's like, I'm gonna come.
I was like, all right, this is wild times, but
that's what we want. We want to be together. We
have a we have a saying that we um that
I would engraved in some places. He says, I prefer
(05:20):
to have one partner that I do essentially everything with.
I said that to him one time, and he's like,
so not. He's much more attached than I am. He's
a little more codependent than I am. And he's like, oh,
you have to put the word essentially in, like you
can't just feel like that. I prefer to do everything
with it, and like we do everything with you, I
need to have a little bit of space. Lamertle same
(05:42):
almost everything a little asters. Now. We've seen you, you know,
I mean, everybody knows you from Real Housewives and and
then all the other amazing things that that you've done,
and we've seen you transform tremendously over you know, the past.
What has it been fourteen years? Um? I started filming
literally like six teen years and I was teen years.
Oh my god, that's crazy. What was your expectation going
(06:05):
into that child. That's a very interesting question. Um. I
only really, I only did it to help my ex husband.
He was in a business, a third generation business, and
he his division was religious articles and jewelry and he
was losing market share. I said, well, you know, sell
directly online. He said no, no, no, my my clients
(06:27):
would be upset my customers. That will change the name.
So we kicked the name together, True Faith. And now
he's making double the profits. So the the story paid
fifty dollars for something and sell it for a hundred.
Now he's, you know, selling for twenty five making farture.
So that's why I did the show to give eyeballs
because being in the media, especially like the reality show,
(06:48):
it gives you eyeballs to your businesses. And helped me
with Ahs and my jewelry line as the first housewife
who did jewelry on Ahs and Idpine Grigio and help
me with that. I did skincare, so I knew, though
I knew I'm a little I don't know the right
word is um the salem? Which background? Maybe you know
what it's called. Is it called intuition, psychic? Maybe I'm
(07:09):
a witch. I knew the show an average one million viewers,
and I told that to production and everyone, and they
thought it was crazy. Well guess what, Hilaria, we averaged
one million viewership the first year, which is a heard of,
unheard of, and yeah it was. It just became what
they call I guess I would get my words are
like a water cooler show. People with the next morning
(07:31):
would go to the water coffee pot and talk about
the show. We were compared to desperate housewife sex in
this city. Um, we were in the press. My daughter
almost got kicked out of private school Sacred Heart because
of that. Yeah, and we did a big photo shoot,
a three page photoshoot spread for Harper's magazine. I mean
that has never really happened to any reality stars. This
(07:53):
is like going back twelve years ago. It was amazing.
It's been an amazing ride. So you expected to go
into it and you you you use your which, your
which senses you you've foretold the million viewers. And was
there any outcome or reality from that experience that completely
shocked you or blew your mind? How famous we became
(08:13):
or so I I couldn't I couldn't even use the
word famous until like ten seasons later. Or I don't
even call it a celebrity, your well known reality star, um,
because I could just consider myself, you know, Ramona and
we it's awkward like as it because then people would
be like, oh, you say you're famous, and you're like well,
and the news all the time and people chasing around
with with cameras. But it is this like awkward moment
(08:35):
of like like I can say for my husband, he's
a movie star, Like that's just true. He is a celebrity.
It's a very clear line. And then with me, I'm like,
I don't know person that graces your tabloids. No, but
you know what you are, your personality and that's why
they write about you. And we went to ask, but
we go to ask me every year. We should have
only been on for two weeks and people were recognizing
(08:55):
the person who helped you on the chair like, oh
high Ramona at the restaurant, O high, Ramona, Oh you
a table? Sure? Her mom like, oh my god, how
do they know me? Like this is crazy recognition. The
recognition was astronomical and for me, and I'm this self
confident in my self esteem. I don't use the word embarrassed.
I don't know if that's the right word. I felt
(09:17):
self conscious about it because I just want to be mean.
I did this show for business. You know. My my
therapist at the times is why are you doing the show?
It's gonna help my ex husband this business, I know,
And you never know what doors will open for me
and it did open a lot of business endeavors for me,
so yeah, it was great. But the least part for
me is the recognition. I know that sounds like an oxymoron,
but I don't like to be recognized. I just want
(09:38):
to be remone and do my own thing. But I'm
not on TV or not doing press or doing an
event where I'm doing me and greet back just on
the street. I don't like it in people all. The
worst part is I got a date. Okay, I'm not
with Mario anymore. I'm in a banquette against the wall
with my date. And this girl comes over as that
one of Tao's restaurants. Because I know you're on a date,
but I have a photo. I don't know, No, you
(10:00):
cannot What did you of? You get up off the table?
Away from my day? Its spirit and men don't like it.
Trusting men do not like this the recognition. They get
very I don't care how successful they are, they get
very intimidated and secure at that. Recently, this girl came
over to me, I've been I'm twenty six, I'm twenty
four years old, and well, how do you even know? Why?
You know? I started like you must have been twelve
(10:21):
pleased to watch it with my mom and she loves you.
Go fine, let's call her right now and or all
set of video and she's, oh, my god, just do
my mother's day. So sometimes I'll do that for people.
But that's the whole thing about you being ageless, is
it's just you are you relate to such a big
group of people because you're so human. But there is
something that it's just it's a spirit that we that
is drawn, you know, that makes people drawn to you
(10:43):
and to you in particular because you are this big.
You've got good and I love life. I mean, I
went with my daughter in Chicago, did all these things
just you shout like a rest of them before dinner.
Come now, I'm not tired, because who are you? I'm
a little tired. I have boundless energy, I really do.
I don't know why, but I do. What have you
learned from being on the show for so many years?
(11:05):
What how did it change you in a way that
you could have never imagined? Well? Number one, it made
me more self aware? How abrupt my cafaith because I
was I did the show, I was one of the
I was the only woman in her own business and
company I had was running a multimillion dollar business. That's
how I bought my home when the Hampton's multimillion dollar
home in the Hamptons, my Mulimion Dllarter apartment New York City.
(11:26):
Because those people don't realize it, but I really had
all the money, not my ex husband. My husband did well,
but I really did well. Way before the show, and
I was busy NonStop, you know, running to homes my daughter,
or social life, working out my girlfriends. So I realized
I can be very curt and I wouldn't always say
please and can you help me? And sometimes best didn't
(11:46):
even make fun of me because I said, could you
kindly give me a glass of water? Could I? Oh,
thank you so kindly, Oh thank you so kindly. But
you know what, I was just trying to be a
better person. So maybe you know I over did it,
but you know what, I don't care. Better to be
overly nice than underly nice. Can I jump into that
for a second, because I think there's something really important
to be said about I run to businesses and try
(12:09):
to work out and have a social life and all
the things right, but you know, we get to a
point where we have to act in a way of efficiency. Right,
So do you think if you were a man, they'd
call you Kurt. I think they'd say, no, he's just
you know, he's just efficient, he's just doing his thing.
But we get judged through a different lens. We get
judged as being like not warm enough or whatever, and
then we have to make up for it in an
(12:29):
interesting way. And I'm sure that in your daily interactions
it probably wouldn't come across the same way as it
would have on television. Right now, you're actually percent right.
I mean, we women have to work harder in the
workplace to get ahead. And um, actually when we were
talking about I was like, I'm a big googler, so
I was looking up to see. I've always embraced women
(12:50):
because it comes from if you're confident and if your
high self esteem, then you're able to handle women. But
in the workplace too, Yeah, you're right. A lot of
women they they lose they lose their empathy for other women,
they lose certain qualities because they're fighting to get ahead
and be more assertive and be a certain way because
they want to be respected by the men, and they
(13:11):
don't want me looked as just like another woman. So yes,
you do change a little, and you're right. I was.
I had my own company. I was doing coming as
twenty nine years old. Like I mean, I ran a major,
ran a company, drook with mistake, you know. I mean,
I was a buyer for Macy's. I work for Calvin c.
I worked in a mail dominated business, you know, prior
for Macy's, work for Calvin Klein, French Connection. I was
(13:32):
up against sold these men. And you have to have
like your hard ask. You can't just sit there, oh, well,
you know I look pretty today, and well you know,
what are you gonna make for to do tonight? It's like, no,
you know, business facts. Boom boom, boom boom. So you're right,
that's where it comes from. Thank you for putting that out. No,
I think it's a very many thing. I struggle with
it all the time because you know, like so many
women think there's a finite piece of pie, right, so
(13:54):
we have to edge others out in order to get
our piece. And so what we talked about here all
the time is that the pie is infinite. You don't
ever have to push a woman out of your way
to have your time in the sun. And so that's
what we're always trying to cultivate this conversation around. And
I think that that I'm laugh because you know what,
that was the other thing they think, because I was
because I'm really when I get into something, I get
(14:15):
into it. And they were saying, women, a lot of
them think that the pie is only big enough for
certain amount of people, and they're afraid of competition, they're
afraid of sharing because they feel they could really get
one smart, small part of that pie. And that's really
not true. And I think that's changing a bit, but
there's still innately with some people is still like that, Yeah,
it's totally. I think we're all kind of on everyone,
(14:36):
even though we know it consciously, and we all seem
to totally be on that page and learning that it's
like a subconscious patriarchal you know, embedding in our psyches
and essence. And it's through these conversations where we can
get to that realization because it's embedded to it in us,
as you're saying, the survival of the fitness, and then
we get and then we get to a point where
(14:56):
like we have to let each other know, like hey,
we can put our swords down Okay, we're done with this.
Let's pull up a chair. Our table only grows and
we're and we're all in this together. You know, being
under such a spotlight, how how do you handle press attention?
I can't. It makes you very upset to you truth,
I don't. I can't handle it well. And you know,
(15:18):
I grew up an environment where my father wasn't very
lovely to my mother, and so learn to shut things out.
That's why when I filmed the show, I'm very natural
because I don't even notice the cameras. And I remember
when we first did the show, Jill would say, aren't
you up? Said about the blogs? I think right about
in the blogs, I didn't even know what a blog was, hilaria,
and then I found out they write negative things because
(15:38):
you know, people love to talk about the negative. The
press does the negative, and then you had Twitter this
neh the negativity. I would block it out. But when
page six writes things or other issues of other publications
that writings that aren't true, I find it very hurtful,
very upsetting, and it's just it's just it's a very difficult,
difficult thing to handle it. It's a business for them
(15:59):
and That's what I am always trying to say to people.
It's like they're going to try to do the click
bait of just the headline is going to be the
most ridiculous thing in the world, and it could actually
not even match what they're writing inside or any of
these publications. Like if I say, you know, you wrote
this and it's not true, and then I have to
hire a lawyer to get them to try to take
(16:21):
it down, and then they wait. There's always like a like,
but you have to take it down by five oh
two pm or whatever, and they wait till like five
oh one, and then it's already picked up everywhere else.
People have already read it. People already assumed that that's
how you are what you are. And I think that
they do this to women on such a higher degree.
And this goes back to you know, Michelle's roots and
(16:45):
to you know, are the witch in this podcast is
people love to tear women down. And we have learned
through the Survival of the Fittest that women love to
tear other women down because we think that then we're
going to have a bit more or it gives us
a dopamine high, and being in the in the spotlight
as you have in a show where you are fluting
(17:08):
it out there. It's not like, oh they didn't like
your acting in Joan of Arc or something like that.
They're like, no, we don't like you, or we don't
like what you did or how you said this, and
we're going to pick you apart under a microscope that
nobody else is having to be looked through. You know, no,
it's it's true. It's very true. And you know, one
thing about social media is become especially it feel really
(17:30):
bad for teenagers because with the Instagram, like well, why
was anybody to that party? And then and then these
kids are more consumed about their photos then living in
the moment and interacting with their friends. It's like they're
just because she was taking photos, and it's just it's
just a crazy, crazy world when you see them all
real year around like a dinner table, just everyone's looking
at their phone and no one is having a conversation
(17:52):
and you're like, well, you're not missing anything because you're
not actually here. I mean, the lack of presence is
very interesting. I actually would love to go back to
the vulnerability you to both experience with social media and
paparazzi and and the press. You know, obviously I'm not
in the public eye, and you know we all still
everyone out there does experience their version of this. And
(18:15):
what how people like to What's that was the thing?
Like people love watching a car accident right now, Everyone
slows down by the side of the road when you
see something going wrong in someone's life. And as someone
who's been going through some darker times in my personal life,
it's amazing, like the anxiety and panic that come, which
I would kind of compare to what you two have
(18:36):
to experience with the with the media outlets. I wake
up in the morning, I'm like, oh God, what is
someone going to say today about this thing that's going
wrong in my life? And like just even like the
myopic bit of gossip that people you know, in ordinary
person experiences but in their friend group is so traumatic
and it doesn't die if it's on social media. It
just keeps coming back for you. We have to be
(18:57):
nicer to each other. Unfortunately, depress your they're all about sensationalism.
They're not going to say how how wonderful Ramona, it was.
It's more about something negative. I mean, I remember one
thing that upset myself at a very close mail friend
of mine. We were going to a big party, my
girlfriend Pala was holsting at Doubles and we had a
drink near by my neighborhood. All of a sudden, someone
wrote on page six with the date, and then they
(19:18):
researched him and he did a white collar crime when
went away for six months. He really shouldn't have gone away,
but whatever the reasons, he did, and the press picked up.
But actually, you know, I know, page do you have
to write that? Can just take that part out? I mean,
it was not It was just very cruel because he
blows to a country club and this happened like ten
years ago, and that was all. I didn't know that
you went away for six months, and it was mortified.
(19:41):
I was so Now it is not not only hurts me,
it hurts a friend of mine, and they dig up
dirt and it's just so nasty for those of you
that listening at home. A lot of people will say,
(20:02):
you know, the the experience that Ramona and I have
have had is not relatable because I'm not in the media.
I'm not in the news, and over and over again
on this podcast, I'm gonna try to drill in how
it trickles down into how we're all what we're seeing
in the influencer world or the world that we're being
influenced back is how we start treating each other. So
(20:24):
we need to care for ourselves, for our friends, for
our family, for our children. And then also it's it
might not be the whole world looking at you, but
it's your whole world. If you are feeling gossip in
your community, your online community, your work community, and it
feels overwhelming, it could even be one person, it still matters, like,
(20:45):
don't dumb down the fact that somebody, if somebody's gossiping
around you're saying something that's not true or mean, or
spreading something that might be true, but you don't really
want them to say it. You know, that's just realized
that that's valid and that's painful. And that's another reason
that we're here, is to to be able to talk
about how we can speak about each other in a
better way where we're supporting each other rather than picking
(21:06):
at each other for silly things. No, I mean, I
definitely agree, but I think sometimes I was reading about
how most women they need to feel that type of
health relationship between them that um in the eyes of
each woman, they haven't feel similar self esteem and similar confidence.
And once that parody shifts, then they start bullying you.
(21:28):
They ostracize you because now something is shifted and now
you're in a higher hierarchy and they don't like it. So,
which is very interesting. It's almost maybe psychological, how we
were brought up for something deep within us um. But
that's like, you know, a very a very um upsetting occurred.
So I felt out of whack. I felt lost in
the sea. So I basically hang out with guys. All
(21:50):
the men were my friends. And when I finally went
to college, finally I seek water, seeks aroun level. I
finally met women who were very attractive, they liked to dress,
they were smart, and then I, you know, people I
really enjoyed being with. But I've always had a lot
of self confidence, in high self esteem, and I guess
that's how my mother brought me up. But I believe
I brought my daughter that way. And I think, you know,
(22:10):
it starts at home. So anyone who's listening to has
young children or planned have children, you have to give
them confident self esteem. Is a woman who's confident is
not going to bully you. When is confident is not
going to leave you out. A woman who's confident is
not going to be a bit to you. It's a
woman who feels inferior, insecure, and is threatened by you.
That's where it comes from. She's intimidated and threatened. Nothing
(22:32):
you did, just you being successful, You're being confident, You're
feeling like a strong person. That makes them go off
the wall, off the rail, how you want to say it.
Can't love others properly unless we love ourselves. And that's
where all insecurity and you know, lack of self worth,
lack of self esteem come from. And I think that's
something we've been covering a lot in in a broader
(22:55):
aspect with the show, that the difference between self esteem
and self worth, right, and how both have to be
cultivated so much, and how that starts at home, especially
with young girls, like we can see what how the
world perceives us as attractive, as intelligent, or as well spoken,
but if we don't believe it, it doesn't matter. And
how yeah, how we just have to marry those two
(23:16):
concepts to our kids every single day, especially through the
lens of social media, and it's also this whole like um,
you know, princess and the pea, and you know was
what was the other one? The girl that the girl
who got married Sleeping beauty, right, not sleeping beauty, the
one with the sholla. So I remember my daughter, I
mean I remember this so distinctly. In my bathroom there
(23:39):
was the tub and she sits stand on the tub
so she could look at the mirror, and I'd be
getting ready for black tie and being old dog up.
You know, Mom, you're so pretty, You're so beautiful, and
one day I'm gonna be beautiful too, and a man
will is gonna want me. I go, let me talk
about you for no, no, no, no, no no no.
First of all, beauty is only skin deep. You're gonna
work on being a warm person, a giving person, a
(24:02):
generous person, a loving person, and you're going to decide
who you want, because every man is gonna want you.
And even in a career with women, I always say,
don't look to your left, don't look to your right,
don't like, don't look what everyone else is doing. No,
concentrate on you, follow your own path, your own way,
and just make it happen. And that takes us to
(24:22):
being ourselves right and really being unapologetically proud to be ourselves.
And I think that is a theme that comes up
quite often with you, Ramona um this quote with no
origin that we all like to put out on the internet.
You know, be yourself. Everybody is already taken. And I
guess it's we were talking about this. It's not Oscar
Wild who knows who it is, but it's relevant no
(24:43):
matter who we at treat us too. And you know,
like you you recently said something about the new cast
for the show and how you know they that the
audience knows if you're faking it, and you know they
need to not try to copy it past cast members.
They need to be themselves and you can teach them
kind of how to be icons. And when I read this,
I perceived it as, Yeah, you're trying to tell them
(25:05):
you really need to be authentic for this to work exactly.
And I think that the world's kind of expecting us
to conform to what they expect to see on that show.
So do you have advice, like for just being unapologetically
yourself in that way? You know, I think the main
reason why is on for so many years it is
(25:27):
because I'm unfiltered. I say what everyone else is thinking.
And you know, basically, I remember they flew me over
to New Zealand the new housewives there, and they want
to plan what you're gonna do on the show and
talk what they're gonna say about the show. If they do,
that's how it works. No, just start filming and just
let it. Let it roll. And if you don't like
that woman's blue shirt, or you think are skirts too high,
(25:50):
don't keep yourself like you know what, why is that
screwt too so high? I think it looks ridiculous on me.
And that's what I do. Unfiltered. I say what everyone's thinking.
So sometimes I get a little flat for it, but
you know what, I know what I'm doing. I mean,
I'm not into TV to be unsuccessful. I did to
be successful. Am I acting? I'm not acting? But of
course I pump it up, but in a genuine way.
(26:11):
And I like that in real life. If I didn't
like your blue shirts, shall we think that blue shirt?
You know? I you should only be were in red
and yellow? Why blue? It looks terrible on you. I
would never say that to you, but on TV I
would so that's just an example. Just because you're wearing
a bluish navy shirts of Susie as an example, Yeah,
like what color is this? Um will? You really have
endured and outlasted everyone on that show. So I think
(26:31):
that's a testament to authenticity, right, just being yourself and
being yourself pumped up right on steroids. What about being
yourself off TV? I'll tell you, not being on this
show for a couple of years has really relaxed me.
I feel I'm just a softer person. You don't realize,
even though I say I can block these out, you
(26:52):
don't realize when you're filming a show as intensely as
this on Bravo, how much it does emotionally and mentally,
that shoot and drains you. You know, you're like like
you're on it's like a high. You know, you're on
Adrenaline's almost like a it's a high, some kind of
a high, and it winds you all up and you
can't relax. And now I just I mean, I'm taking
(27:13):
this whole hiatus. I'm trying to do different things. My
daughter and I are gonna do a podcast. I'll ask
you for some advice because I know you like to empowermen,
and um, I'm just so much happier. I mean, I
don't have to prove anything now. I mean I'm sixties something.
Just say sixties something, as I say ageless. And I've
accomplished so much more in my life than I ever
thought possible. I mean, I grew Upstate New York. My
(27:35):
dad was an engineer. My mom is a homemaker. She
did a little bit of real estate. I really State
Licesnes too. But I surpassed all of my dreams so far.
And I feel my life. I just tell my daughter,
I'm living to be a hind he I'm gonna die
and a hundred looking quite pretty, not really ill and
just dying in my sleep. I have a lot of
life in me. I love life. I love people, people
for me, my food, my food, my sunshine, my water.
(27:58):
I thrive on people and doing things with great people
and meeting new people. So yeah, I'm enjoying what I'm doing.
I'm meeting I mean, I have a place down on
Palm Beach. I have a whole new group of friends
down there. Um. My other advice to older women, we
outlive our husbands a lot of our friends. Because I'm
gonna look to a hundred. I'm now picking friends and
having friends that are twenty years younger because they just
(28:20):
because they better be around because they will be And
I don't want to all of a sudden wake up
one morning and I have, you know, no no one
in my life because everyone you know, because I passed.
You know, I'm like very healthy for my age. I mean,
nothing's going to happen to me until I'm a hundred.
So I love people. So I'm learning to have friends
or they're just coming to me. Ease, have a high energy.
(28:42):
And I think that's important as you get older, once
you turn fifties six, because I say it's hard to
meet good friends as you get older, you know. But
for me, maybe it's not because I traveled so much.
I I meet people through businesses and social networking. So
I'm collecting friends. And why people collect? What do people collect?
I don't know, candles, flowers. I think it's about being
(29:03):
curious as well. You're a curious person. And when you're
curious and you feel like you know yourself yet you're
not afraid to evolve, that's that that is a really
key things. When we keep hilarious, not afraid to fool.
You know, I always say life just like a shark.
You've gotta keep moving or your die keep evolving. That
is so profound and so well said. It was so true.
(29:25):
Now I was I was looking at a little a
few clips today from from your your work, and I
was seeing like a whole apology thing, and I made
me think of why women are expected to apologize all
the time. Now, an apology can be a great thing sometimes,
but I notice with my daughter, and I want to
get your parenting advice on this, that she just says
(29:47):
she's sorry all the time. Like I'll be doing homework
with her and I'm like, oh, no, you know this
is a little bit different right here, and she's like, oh,
I'm sorry. I'm like, why are you saying you're sorry?
We're not And then she says saying sorry. I was like,
oh god, Carmon, no, no, no, you don't have to
say you're sorry. Don't go through a life constantly Apologizeing
goes to being unapologetically yourself and then just being able, Yes,
(30:09):
of course we're gonna mess up sometimes and we should
apologize for that. And then there's times where you were
just apologizing because it's inner vocabulary, not you're right. It's
almost like the verbal crutch, right, because you default to
that almost it's like that SNL skate. I think we've
all seen it where it's a bunch of women on
a stage and a panel and it's probably like a
Ted Talk model and they're all saying like, oh, I'm sorry,
(30:32):
but oh I'm sorry, I'm sorry, but I have something
to say, and like it does, there's not one sentence
uttered without an apology attached. And it's an interesting think
about because if you if you flip that to to
the other gender, you're not gonna hear I'm sorry. I
think maybe society teaches us to say that. We think
we can't have a different opinion. We think they did
hurt someone's feelings, and instead of trying to say, oh
(30:56):
I didn't know that it hurts you or upset you.
So next time, now I know it, I will you know,
I'll be conscious of sorry, right, I will hear you. Yeah,
I know. It's kind of just yeah, we need any word.
Um no, that makes sense. That makes a lot of sense.
And how do you how do you teach that to
your daughter or has that had had to has that
had to be something you teach to her. I remember
(31:19):
the biggest thing I would teach my daughter when she
was getting older was, um, we would you'll see with
your girls before they go to college or when their
teens they start fighting with you, because you know, my
daughters are so close, we're so close that she wants
to get a little independent. So sometimes I butt heads
with her and we have arguments, and then I finally
realized that, you know what, I'm not going to win
(31:39):
this and what's the point. So I'd walk away and
I would just say to her, you know what, Avery,
I'm not liking you right now, So I'm going to
leave the room and don't don't go talk. Where you going?
Do you still love me? What? Mom? Me? What? What? What?
And I just look at it, Avery, I'll always love you,
but right now I'm just not liking you and I
need a time out from you. And that was that,
(31:59):
I remember, Psychologically worked really well for us. I also
taught my daughter. Yeah, I taught my daughter to you know,
my mother taught me to be financially independent. So my
daughter has really strong work ethics. And I remember the
thing I was most proud about of her is um
you know when she was in school, like, why don't
have a credit card. I'm sorry, I'm not giving a
(32:20):
credit Well knows that's credit card. I don't really care
not giving me a credit card because I got myself
in big debt the credit card. Thank god my ex
boyfriend paid it off and I didn't can get another
credit cards thirty five years old because afraid of debt.
So um. So what happened was she um, she was
in college graduating and it's a big trip. They do
the college trip, they go on vacation. And I had
(32:41):
just spent for me a lot of money taking away
first class major hotels to Europe. We went to Paris
and London. And so she's like, Mom, I need like
now two thousand dollars to go on this trip. Are
you know, Avery, I just got divorced from your dad. Um,
I just took in this major trip, so no, you
you to gure it out. So she did that, you
(33:01):
have if what she did was resource book. She ran
the whole trip for the college students. She found kids
to go on this trip, pay for her trip for free.
She was They were so proud of her, the people
who had the trip for all these kids. They gave
her extra money. The kids were also thrilled that, they said,
this is the best trip we ever went on her
life because she just organized it and she knew where
(33:24):
to go and we're gonna make the reservations and planned
all the activities and found the spot. So yeah, So
if you just give kids stuff, they're not going to
really try it hard to do things on their own,
you know. I mean, yes, did I have the money
to give it to her, of course I did, But
I don't wanted to be dependent upon me always giving
their money. Figure out a way to finding out your way. Yeah,
if you never have to figure it out, you never
(33:45):
start searching, right, And that's where we find like our
greatest talent, skills, passions, you know, I think all the
things that make us our best. But hearing you talk
about your daughter, clearly you too are extremely close. And
as a daughter with a mother who's a therapist. By
the way, I said, there's that that whole wonderful thing,
and we're analyzing you every day. Oh my god, when
(34:06):
I'm going through it, there's no one better to talk to.
And we are very close. But you know, mother and
daughter relationships can have their moments. They can they can
sometimes be complex and you know, ever as it can
of every relationship. Um, but how do you how did you?
And maybe with or without the show, because I guess
you know you were on it for so long. She
grew up on the show a great deal of her life.
(34:28):
Do you think that that helped strengthen the bond? Kind
of YouTube really kind of YouTube against the world or well,
she was about twelve when I did the show, and
she say like, why can't you just be my mother?
Like why do you have people? You know? I remember
taking to a Britney Spears concert and Madison Square Garden
or just to be for someone of those famous singers,
and this woman wanted to scream it's right, sort of
(34:52):
hated me being recognized, could stet it? Why can't you
just be my mom? So that was that was not
a good thing. Um, when I was feeling sometimes I
would have to film. I remember it was I was
this was like first season when I yelled at Alex
and Simon, why Simon are you at this dinner? It's
a girl's dinner because I left my dinner, my ex husband,
(35:14):
myself and my daughter. We have a formal European background.
He's been a beautiful dinner every night with candles and
silver and crystal, and it was like, where are you going?
Why are you leaving us for dinner? I said, I
have to film, so um. She would get upset when
I had to film at nights because we were always
a very strong family unit. But it was only for
four months. But and then you know, yeah, the attention.
(35:38):
I mean, she actually showed me a video when she
was in Chicago that this woman came up to saying,
you know you're Avery, You're Avery, and She's like, I'm dancing.
Please please go away. I don't want to be known
as Avery from this show I wanted. She wants her
own identity, her own independence. Um. So yeah, so it had,
you know, had a little bit of some problems for
her and went through a phase when I was younger
(35:59):
and my boys didn't do it as much. But it
might just be because of the age, but she went
through a phase where she would freak out if I
had to work, and I was constantly working from home
and then going to a photo shoot and then going
and being on Rachel Ray and then the Today Show,
and I'd want to bring her with me everywhere because
it was like all right, she she was in like
preschool so she could come with me. And she went
(36:21):
through a period where she would try to in like
the dressing rooms they have the TV, and I would
go out and she'd be screaming and I was just like,
I'm just on the other side. She would try to
get into the TV. When she was like really like two,
she was like, I wan my mom And like one
time I was doing a shoot for I Feel like
it was in style and I had to be in
like a yoga pose and I had I think three
(36:42):
kids at the time, who knows, who knows a lot
of kids at the time, and I'm so like beholding
all of them. And the people who were doing the
shoot had this idea that none of them had kids.
They're like, we want you to be balancing a green
juice like this, holding your hand here. Somehow you're holding
three children. She screamed the entire time and then sat
on top of me on my yoga mat and would
(37:04):
not let me take pictures. It was like the biggest
like nightmare ever she was. She's like, this is my mommy.
I don't know who you people are, and green juices girls,
it should have been ice cream. If you is ice cream,
I would have breed to this. But exactly, yeah, I
know it's a it's it's interesting parenting through through all
of this. But you know, I mean I feel like
for for moms too that are, you know, bringing their
(37:25):
their kids to work. It's it's it's hard to watch
your watch your parents go and work. And there's just
a whole another animal when you do it the way
the way that you've done it. So we we do
(37:45):
something on our podcast that's called what are We Coveting
in the Coven, which is just a fun product that
we're using, fun product experience thing, anything that you want
to want to recommend. We want to know what's your
Kevin Ramona, Well, I'm really into I love lipsticks and
lip glosses and lip pencils. And my biggest problem is
(38:07):
because I because I have different colors that I like,
I misplace everything. So Lisa Renna, she has a line
called ran A Beauty and there's a color she does
called Legends. So it's like the lipstick with the lip
pencil and the lip gloss and they all three go together.
So if you just if you put them and you
know they match and then you know they work. So
(38:29):
that this is my and I love this color called
Legends because it's like a peachy CORALI color because I
used to sometimes we're pinky, but because I'm blonde and
brown eyes, I look better than the peaches and corals.
So ran a Beauty her Brye color pack. There's nothing
worse than having like twenty five different lip glosses just
floating around your purse like a fish bowl, like I
never right, and then you know, and then the lip
(38:49):
pencil to go with the actual lipstick. You know, it's
very difficult to find that. So I love that that
she has that together. So okay, that's right now, my
go to it. I have it wherever I go. Now,
thank you so much, thank you for being here. All right,
bye guys. Michelle Ramona was the perfect first guest Witchy
in like all the best ways and just such a
(39:13):
good energy to start this project off where you know
people would come out We're not perfect, we're not polished maybe,
but we have confidence and we can get to a
place where women support women and we you know, together,
we got this in our govern She was fantastic and
a real reminder of how much the media can influence
(39:35):
us and how much intensity it can bring to our lives,
and the idea that it's just gossiping. It's gossiping about
a whole load of people, you know what I mean that,
but a whole load of people, I should say, gossiping
about one person. And we all know, for you guys
at home, that it could be one person gossiping about
you or one million people gossiping about you. It's just
a really bad feeling. So, you know, my my heart
(39:58):
goes out to her with her experiences that you know
she's that she so kindly shared with us, and I'm
really glad that she is in a more calm and
peaceful place with more privacy. Absolutely, you know, And like
you say, one or one million, it's still hurts and
we can't control how we are perceived. And that reminds
(40:19):
me and brings me to our Witch of the Week
this week, whose perception in the media was completely distorted
and insane. So this week's which of the week is?
And the witch of the week every week is going
to be a woman in history that was left out
of the story, demonized, was called a witch, was called crazy,
(40:41):
was called amazing, but everyone forgot to talk about her
and put her in the books. Every week we honor
a woman that has inspired, has been torn down, has
been through it. And so this week we are putting
our spotlight on Clara bou. Clara Beau was born in
Brooklyn in five. She was infamous for her entanglements with men,
(41:03):
her partying, alcohol consumption, and most famous for captivating audiences
on the silver screen. She was an extremely famous actress
in her day, and Clara Beau one of fame and fortune.
Contest in that put her on this path and changed
her life forever, gave her exposure. A small role in
a movie her first evening gown, and eventually that led
(41:25):
to her becoming a contracted player at Paramount and Clara's
films just killed it in the box office. She was
most famous for being in a movie called It, which
was an adaptation of an Eleanor Glynn novel. Eleanor Glenn
was one of the most notorious and amazing journalists and
writers of her day, and we will be covering her
at another time. But in this film, um, she's essentially
(41:48):
the girl and she is. She plays a shop girl
with sites on her boss but unfortunately, despite this film
being a huge hit and extremely entertaining, Clara's talent and
success were always overshadowed by her public persona, which was
heavily heavily influenced by the media of the day. Um
she was a notorious wild child. Before that was a term,
(42:10):
she was considered the embodiment of a jazz age flapper,
and the flapper we so often attribute to the Great Gatsby,
you know, the flapper was more or less defined as
a woman exuding charms, sexuality, sex appeal, wearing you know,
clothes that were a little more suggestive, having you know,
more of a willingness to drink publicly, drink with the boys,
(42:32):
be really fun. Clara's partying and her drinking it really
just ended up taking the spotlight off of the great
work she did. She infamously fought the studios to have
the morals clauses removed from her contract. Now. Morals clauses
are legal agreements that actors have to make stating that
they would behave according to certain um, usually agreed upon
(42:52):
guidelines determined by the film studio. So any violation of
those terms could cause the actor to lose their job
and Clara was the first woman who who fought for that,
and she was the first woman who really at that
time was unapologetically herself in a Hollywood where that was
virtually unheard of. Um. She would often say, I'm a
(43:13):
big old freak because I'm myself. And she was not
the first of her kind, and she won't be the last.
But you know, Clara, we honor her for speaking out,
speaking up, acting out, but unfortunately being criticized for it.
And if there's a takeaway from what you just shared
with s Michelle about Clara, or from Ramona or probably
(43:35):
any of the things that you guys feel that you've experienced,
is that so many times we say, oh, well, she
signed up for it, and she's a strong woman and
she's trying to be you know, like all big and
bold and everything. So somehow she's built differently that she
can receive that kind of judgment and negativity. And I
can tell you that it doesn't work that way. And
(43:56):
for the women like Clara and Ramona who are brave
enough to go out there and be big and be
bold and be free, rather than having that be sort
of just a you know, we think that it's an
invitation to pick at them and put them up there
and sort of gossip about them. Rather than having that
be the case, we can look at them and say,
that's an invitation to inspire me to also be big,
(44:19):
be bold, be free, because we should be taking up
all the space. So I'm very grateful that Ramona opened
up about her her mental health, her feelings about how
you know, she's been treated, and then but still saying, hey,
you know what, this is who I am, and I'm
proud of who I am. All right, one more thing
before we go, Michelle, what are we covering in our
(44:40):
coven this week? What are we coverting in our covering
this week? Well, I have mine right here. This is
a beverage I love. It's called Mama Mama. It is
my friends company. It's a female owned company. It's a
prebiotic fiber drink um. It tastes delicious, has vitamin C.
It's all natural. There's not any artificial artificial sweeteners. Maybe
(45:06):
I do need some caffeine um, but it is delicious, effervescent,
and I love I love the taste and the canon
and there's a cute little llama on it and supporting
female owned businesses. So this is my covet and what
are you coveting? I am a coveting sleep which is
for me with a seven week old is all about
(45:26):
the swaddle. So there's this brand called snuggle Meat Organic
and it makes an amazing swaddle because it has a
stretch to it which I could never get a super
tight swaddle on the baby with the muslin ones. So
if you got like a little stretch, I can really
like wrap her up like a little burrito and it
gives me a little bit more asleep, not a lot,
(45:46):
but a little bit more asleep because you guys, know what,
like infants, they startle themselves awake. So the tighter you
make them, the better they sleep, and the better I sleep.
I love a cozy little burrito. Very cute. All right, Whiches,
thanks for listening. Follow us on Instagram at which is
a nonpod, and make sure to write us a review,
(46:07):
a nice review, and leave us five stars. See you
next time.
Which is anonymous, with the Laria Baldwin and Michelle Campbell
Mason and I Heart Radio podcast Hey, which is Welcome
back to which is anonymous. This week we have a
very special guest we'd like to welcome Ramona Singer. I
was so excited to be on with you, Hilaria Michelle.
I think your podcast a huge success, so thanks for
(00:21):
having me. All right, So, Ramona, I met you. I
don't know if you remember, but I met you in
the Upper east Side and I was with two of
my dear friends and two cute boys who later on
I officiated their weddings. This is like, these are some
of my best best friends, and they recognized you because
(00:42):
they're like huge, huge fans. You came over. We have
a picture together, and I was actually trying to find
that picture that we took, and you were so nice
and so warm and so welcoming, and I was so
intimidated because I was twenty eight years old and I
had just sort of stepped into this world that you
(01:05):
were in, that my husband was in, and you gave
me your phone number and I never hit the ball
back because I was so intimidated by you. And over
the years, you know, we've run into each other a
few times. And you know that when I started this project,
you were the first person that I thought of because
I was like, you know what, she was always there
(01:26):
to support me, and so I used the phone number.
And now and now here we are. So all of
the things that intimidated me about you have led me
to to let us to want to have you here
to inspire all of us and talk about women and
our relationships with each other. Well, you know, anybody who
knows me knows that my girlfriends for the most important
(01:48):
thing in the world. Yes, you all want to find
love in marriage, but women, men are talkers, you know.
Men are just kind of going to the mail caves
in men case, women you can talk to like, you know,
I just had this fight and we'll just if you
rationalize with them. They teach you things and bounce off them.
And and we we loved to chit chat. And you know,
let's just say, you know, you're at a bad spot
in your life with with your marriage like I did.
(02:10):
My girlfriend's made me survived. I mean I didn't have
a relationship for two years later. Without my girlfriend's I
would have died. Literally, I would like gone into bed
and cried my whole life. And I taught my daughter
the same thing. And I really think, now you're refreshing me.
And why I realized girlfriends are important because I was
literally I just graduated from college at y T. I
(02:30):
finally became a buyer for Macy's, and um, I had
this great boyfriend, and you know, he took me all
around the world. Whose my age. It was very worldly
and affluent. We let this great lifestyle and I was
basically living with him. I kept my own place. So
we broke up for whatever reasons. So when I broke
up with him, I went back to my apartment and
(02:51):
Hilaria as socialized like him. I had no one to
call on the phone, no one to call, no one.
I had no girlfriend in my life, no gay end
in my life, no uh girlfriend, nobody, married people, no one.
And I said, I'm never going to let this happen
to me again. So my ex husband, he even knewhen
I was married, like about with my girlfriends. So going
(03:12):
out with the Selache Knight, I'm going out with Kathleen
because okay, have fun, have fun, do it. He allowed
me to be me. Girlfriends empower you, They embrace you.
They build you, they give you confidence, and they're like
like they're like water, They're necessary, like water isn't food.
In my opinion, I agree with you and Michelle. You
have been with me through so many difficult things and
(03:34):
and again it's one of the reasons that we started
this this podcast is that we just were like, we
need to have a coven where we all come and
we share a lot of advice, and we share tears,
and we and we figure it out. What is the
perfect analogy, right? I mean, we cannot thrive or function
without them. Also, you can over water, right, so we
we have to we have to conserve sometimes and not
(03:56):
overdo it and balance our lives. You go all friends
and mess up your relations frien ships. So I think
we're all kind of always looking for the perfect balance, right. Yeah.
You know what I always do is I include my
particular boyfriend if I have a boyfriend now or even
with my ex husband, he knew my girlfriends as some
of them were single, they worked there, they were divorced,
but I would just I would take them in and
(04:16):
he would take them too. He would embrace them. So
I think it's important when you find a spouse or
a significant other that they share your view. That's important
for you to have women friends. And I'm really one woman.
And she said, when her husband comes home and she's
on the phone, she can't see on the phone. She
has to hang up the phone and meet it. But
really that's the ticket. But yeah, some men can be
(04:37):
very controlling of their significant others and jealous of the
relationships and other women. They're not allowed to talk to them,
see them. Yeah, and that's just not good. In my opinion,
Bachelor and Bachelor Rette parties were like the biggest joke
in the world. So I went to a restaurant with
a bunch of my friends at like seven pm and
it was like a vegan restaurant when it was like
there was nothing fun about the experience. That sound like
(04:59):
such a blastm steam carrots. But and then Alec went
with his brother Billy and his daughter Ireland to go
watch a movie. And then by eight pm he like
showed up at the restaurant. He's like, I'm gonna come.
I was like, all right, this is wild times, but
that's what we want. We want to be together. We
have a we have a saying that we um that
I would engraved in some places. He says, I prefer
(05:20):
to have one partner that I do essentially everything with.
I said that to him one time, and he's like,
so not. He's much more attached than I am. He's
a little more codependent than I am. And he's like, oh,
you have to put the word essentially in, like you
can't just feel like that. I prefer to do everything
with it, and like we do everything with you, I
need to have a little bit of space. Lamertle same
(05:42):
almost everything a little asters. Now. We've seen you, you know,
I mean, everybody knows you from Real Housewives and and
then all the other amazing things that that you've done,
and we've seen you transform tremendously over you know, the past.
What has it been fourteen years? Um? I started filming
literally like six teen years and I was teen years.
Oh my god, that's crazy. What was your expectation going
(06:05):
into that child. That's a very interesting question. Um. I
only really, I only did it to help my ex husband.
He was in a business, a third generation business, and
he his division was religious articles and jewelry and he
was losing market share. I said, well, you know, sell
directly online. He said no, no, no, my my clients
(06:27):
would be upset my customers. That will change the name.
So we kicked the name together, True Faith. And now
he's making double the profits. So the the story paid
fifty dollars for something and sell it for a hundred.
Now he's, you know, selling for twenty five making farture.
So that's why I did the show to give eyeballs
because being in the media, especially like the reality show,
(06:48):
it gives you eyeballs to your businesses. And helped me
with Ahs and my jewelry line as the first housewife
who did jewelry on Ahs and Idpine Grigio and help
me with that. I did skincare, so I knew, though
I knew I'm a little I don't know the right
word is um the salem? Which background? Maybe you know
what it's called. Is it called intuition, psychic? Maybe I'm
(07:09):
a witch. I knew the show an average one million viewers,
and I told that to production and everyone, and they
thought it was crazy. Well guess what, Hilaria, we averaged
one million viewership the first year, which is a heard of,
unheard of, and yeah it was. It just became what
they call I guess I would get my words are
like a water cooler show. People with the next morning
(07:31):
would go to the water coffee pot and talk about
the show. We were compared to desperate housewife sex in
this city. Um, we were in the press. My daughter
almost got kicked out of private school Sacred Heart because
of that. Yeah, and we did a big photo shoot,
a three page photoshoot spread for Harper's magazine. I mean
that has never really happened to any reality stars. This
(07:53):
is like going back twelve years ago. It was amazing.
It's been an amazing ride. So you expected to go
into it and you you you use your which, your
which senses you you've foretold the million viewers. And was
there any outcome or reality from that experience that completely
shocked you or blew your mind? How famous we became
(08:13):
or so I I couldn't I couldn't even use the
word famous until like ten seasons later. Or I don't
even call it a celebrity, your well known reality star, um,
because I could just consider myself, you know, Ramona and
we it's awkward like as it because then people would
be like, oh, you say you're famous, and you're like well,
and the news all the time and people chasing around
with with cameras. But it is this like awkward moment
(08:35):
of like like I can say for my husband, he's
a movie star, Like that's just true. He is a celebrity.
It's a very clear line. And then with me, I'm like,
I don't know person that graces your tabloids. No, but
you know what you are, your personality and that's why
they write about you. And we went to ask, but
we go to ask me every year. We should have
only been on for two weeks and people were recognizing
(08:55):
the person who helped you on the chair like, oh
high Ramona at the restaurant, O high, Ramona, Oh you
a table? Sure? Her mom like, oh my god, how
do they know me? Like this is crazy recognition. The
recognition was astronomical and for me, and I'm this self
confident in my self esteem. I don't use the word embarrassed.
I don't know if that's the right word. I felt
(09:17):
self conscious about it because I just want to be mean.
I did this show for business. You know. My my
therapist at the times is why are you doing the show?
It's gonna help my ex husband this business, I know,
And you never know what doors will open for me
and it did open a lot of business endeavors for me,
so yeah, it was great. But the least part for
me is the recognition. I know that sounds like an oxymoron,
but I don't like to be recognized. I just want
(09:38):
to be remone and do my own thing. But I'm
not on TV or not doing press or doing an
event where I'm doing me and greet back just on
the street. I don't like it in people all. The
worst part is I got a date. Okay, I'm not
with Mario anymore. I'm in a banquette against the wall
with my date. And this girl comes over as that
one of Tao's restaurants. Because I know you're on a date,
but I have a photo. I don't know, No, you
(10:00):
cannot What did you of? You get up off the table?
Away from my day? Its spirit and men don't like it.
Trusting men do not like this the recognition. They get
very I don't care how successful they are, they get
very intimidated and secure at that. Recently, this girl came
over to me, I've been I'm twenty six, I'm twenty
four years old, and well, how do you even know? Why?
You know? I started like you must have been twelve
(10:21):
pleased to watch it with my mom and she loves you.
Go fine, let's call her right now and or all
set of video and she's, oh, my god, just do
my mother's day. So sometimes I'll do that for people.
But that's the whole thing about you being ageless, is
it's just you are you relate to such a big
group of people because you're so human. But there is
something that it's just it's a spirit that we that
is drawn, you know, that makes people drawn to you
(10:43):
and to you in particular because you are this big.
You've got good and I love life. I mean, I
went with my daughter in Chicago, did all these things
just you shout like a rest of them before dinner.
Come now, I'm not tired, because who are you? I'm
a little tired. I have boundless energy, I really do.
I don't know why, but I do. What have you
learned from being on the show for so many years?
(11:05):
What how did it change you in a way that
you could have never imagined? Well? Number one, it made
me more self aware? How abrupt my cafaith because I
was I did the show, I was one of the
I was the only woman in her own business and
company I had was running a multimillion dollar business. That's
how I bought my home when the Hampton's multimillion dollar
home in the Hamptons, my Mulimion Dllarter apartment New York City.
(11:26):
Because those people don't realize it, but I really had
all the money, not my ex husband. My husband did well,
but I really did well. Way before the show, and
I was busy NonStop, you know, running to homes my daughter,
or social life, working out my girlfriends. So I realized
I can be very curt and I wouldn't always say
please and can you help me? And sometimes best didn't
(11:46):
even make fun of me because I said, could you
kindly give me a glass of water? Could I? Oh,
thank you so kindly, Oh thank you so kindly. But
you know what, I was just trying to be a
better person. So maybe you know I over did it,
but you know what, I don't care. Better to be
overly nice than underly nice. Can I jump into that
for a second, because I think there's something really important
to be said about I run to businesses and try
(12:09):
to work out and have a social life and all
the things right, but you know, we get to a
point where we have to act in a way of efficiency. Right,
So do you think if you were a man, they'd
call you Kurt. I think they'd say, no, he's just
you know, he's just efficient, he's just doing his thing.
But we get judged through a different lens. We get
judged as being like not warm enough or whatever, and
then we have to make up for it in an
(12:29):
interesting way. And I'm sure that in your daily interactions
it probably wouldn't come across the same way as it
would have on television. Right now, you're actually percent right.
I mean, we women have to work harder in the
workplace to get ahead. And um, actually when we were
talking about I was like, I'm a big googler, so
I was looking up to see. I've always embraced women
(12:50):
because it comes from if you're confident and if your
high self esteem, then you're able to handle women. But
in the workplace too, Yeah, you're right. A lot of
women they they lose they lose their empathy for other women,
they lose certain qualities because they're fighting to get ahead
and be more assertive and be a certain way because
they want to be respected by the men, and they
(13:11):
don't want me looked as just like another woman. So yes,
you do change a little, and you're right. I was.
I had my own company. I was doing coming as
twenty nine years old. Like I mean, I ran a major,
ran a company, drook with mistake, you know. I mean,
I was a buyer for Macy's. I work for Calvin c.
I worked in a mail dominated business, you know, prior
for Macy's, work for Calvin Klein, French Connection. I was
(13:32):
up against sold these men. And you have to have
like your hard ask. You can't just sit there, oh, well,
you know I look pretty today, and well you know,
what are you gonna make for to do tonight? It's like, no,
you know, business facts. Boom boom, boom boom. So you're right,
that's where it comes from. Thank you for putting that out. No,
I think it's a very many thing. I struggle with
it all the time because you know, like so many
women think there's a finite piece of pie, right, so
(13:54):
we have to edge others out in order to get
our piece. And so what we talked about here all
the time is that the pie is infinite. You don't
ever have to push a woman out of your way
to have your time in the sun. And so that's
what we're always trying to cultivate this conversation around. And
I think that that I'm laugh because you know what,
that was the other thing they think, because I was
because I'm really when I get into something, I get
(14:15):
into it. And they were saying, women, a lot of
them think that the pie is only big enough for
certain amount of people, and they're afraid of competition, they're
afraid of sharing because they feel they could really get
one smart, small part of that pie. And that's really
not true. And I think that's changing a bit, but
there's still innately with some people is still like that, Yeah,
it's totally. I think we're all kind of on everyone,
(14:36):
even though we know it consciously, and we all seem
to totally be on that page and learning that it's
like a subconscious patriarchal you know, embedding in our psyches
and essence. And it's through these conversations where we can
get to that realization because it's embedded to it in us,
as you're saying, the survival of the fitness, and then
we get and then we get to a point where
(14:56):
like we have to let each other know, like hey,
we can put our swords down Okay, we're done with this.
Let's pull up a chair. Our table only grows and
we're and we're all in this together. You know, being
under such a spotlight, how how do you handle press attention?
I can't. It makes you very upset to you truth,
I don't. I can't handle it well. And you know,
(15:18):
I grew up an environment where my father wasn't very
lovely to my mother, and so learn to shut things out.
That's why when I filmed the show, I'm very natural
because I don't even notice the cameras. And I remember
when we first did the show, Jill would say, aren't
you up? Said about the blogs? I think right about
in the blogs, I didn't even know what a blog was, hilaria,
and then I found out they write negative things because
(15:38):
you know, people love to talk about the negative. The
press does the negative, and then you had Twitter this
neh the negativity. I would block it out. But when
page six writes things or other issues of other publications
that writings that aren't true, I find it very hurtful,
very upsetting, and it's just it's just it's a very difficult,
difficult thing to handle it. It's a business for them
(15:59):
and That's what I am always trying to say to people.
It's like they're going to try to do the click
bait of just the headline is going to be the
most ridiculous thing in the world, and it could actually
not even match what they're writing inside or any of
these publications. Like if I say, you know, you wrote
this and it's not true, and then I have to
hire a lawyer to get them to try to take
(16:21):
it down, and then they wait. There's always like a like,
but you have to take it down by five oh
two pm or whatever, and they wait till like five
oh one, and then it's already picked up everywhere else.
People have already read it. People already assumed that that's
how you are what you are. And I think that
they do this to women on such a higher degree.
And this goes back to you know, Michelle's roots and
(16:45):
to you know, are the witch in this podcast is
people love to tear women down. And we have learned
through the Survival of the Fittest that women love to
tear other women down because we think that then we're
going to have a bit more or it gives us
a dopamine high, and being in the in the spotlight
as you have in a show where you are fluting
(17:08):
it out there. It's not like, oh they didn't like
your acting in Joan of Arc or something like that.
They're like, no, we don't like you, or we don't
like what you did or how you said this, and
we're going to pick you apart under a microscope that
nobody else is having to be looked through. You know, no,
it's it's true. It's very true. And you know, one
thing about social media is become especially it feel really
(17:30):
bad for teenagers because with the Instagram, like well, why
was anybody to that party? And then and then these
kids are more consumed about their photos then living in
the moment and interacting with their friends. It's like they're
just because she was taking photos, and it's just it's
just a crazy, crazy world when you see them all
real year around like a dinner table, just everyone's looking
at their phone and no one is having a conversation
(17:52):
and you're like, well, you're not missing anything because you're
not actually here. I mean, the lack of presence is
very interesting. I actually would love to go back to
the vulnerability you to both experience with social media and
paparazzi and and the press. You know, obviously I'm not
in the public eye, and you know we all still
everyone out there does experience their version of this. And
(18:15):
what how people like to What's that was the thing?
Like people love watching a car accident right now, Everyone
slows down by the side of the road when you
see something going wrong in someone's life. And as someone
who's been going through some darker times in my personal life,
it's amazing, like the anxiety and panic that come, which
I would kind of compare to what you two have
(18:36):
to experience with the with the media outlets. I wake
up in the morning, I'm like, oh God, what is
someone going to say today about this thing that's going
wrong in my life? And like just even like the
myopic bit of gossip that people you know, in ordinary
person experiences but in their friend group is so traumatic
and it doesn't die if it's on social media. It
just keeps coming back for you. We have to be
(18:57):
nicer to each other. Unfortunately, depress your they're all about sensationalism.
They're not going to say how how wonderful Ramona, it was.
It's more about something negative. I mean, I remember one
thing that upset myself at a very close mail friend
of mine. We were going to a big party, my
girlfriend Pala was holsting at Doubles and we had a
drink near by my neighborhood. All of a sudden, someone
wrote on page six with the date, and then they
(19:18):
researched him and he did a white collar crime when
went away for six months. He really shouldn't have gone away,
but whatever the reasons, he did, and the press picked up.
But actually, you know, I know, page do you have
to write that? Can just take that part out? I mean,
it was not It was just very cruel because he
blows to a country club and this happened like ten
years ago, and that was all. I didn't know that
you went away for six months, and it was mortified.
(19:41):
I was so Now it is not not only hurts me,
it hurts a friend of mine, and they dig up
dirt and it's just so nasty for those of you
that listening at home. A lot of people will say,
(20:02):
you know, the the experience that Ramona and I have
have had is not relatable because I'm not in the media.
I'm not in the news, and over and over again
on this podcast, I'm gonna try to drill in how
it trickles down into how we're all what we're seeing
in the influencer world or the world that we're being
influenced back is how we start treating each other. So
(20:24):
we need to care for ourselves, for our friends, for
our family, for our children. And then also it's it
might not be the whole world looking at you, but
it's your whole world. If you are feeling gossip in
your community, your online community, your work community, and it
feels overwhelming, it could even be one person, it still matters, like,
(20:45):
don't dumb down the fact that somebody, if somebody's gossiping
around you're saying something that's not true or mean, or
spreading something that might be true, but you don't really
want them to say it. You know, that's just realized
that that's valid and that's painful. And that's another reason
that we're here, is to to be able to talk
about how we can speak about each other in a
better way where we're supporting each other rather than picking
(21:06):
at each other for silly things. No, I mean, I
definitely agree, but I think sometimes I was reading about
how most women they need to feel that type of
health relationship between them that um in the eyes of
each woman, they haven't feel similar self esteem and similar confidence.
And once that parody shifts, then they start bullying you.
(21:28):
They ostracize you because now something is shifted and now
you're in a higher hierarchy and they don't like it. So,
which is very interesting. It's almost maybe psychological, how we
were brought up for something deep within us um. But
that's like, you know, a very a very um upsetting occurred.
So I felt out of whack. I felt lost in
the sea. So I basically hang out with guys. All
(21:50):
the men were my friends. And when I finally went
to college, finally I seek water, seeks aroun level. I
finally met women who were very attractive, they liked to dress,
they were smart, and then I, you know, people I
really enjoyed being with. But I've always had a lot
of self confidence, in high self esteem, and I guess
that's how my mother brought me up. But I believe
I brought my daughter that way. And I think, you know,
(22:10):
it starts at home. So anyone who's listening to has
young children or planned have children, you have to give
them confident self esteem. Is a woman who's confident is
not going to bully you. When is confident is not
going to leave you out. A woman who's confident is
not going to be a bit to you. It's a
woman who feels inferior, insecure, and is threatened by you.
That's where it comes from. She's intimidated and threatened. Nothing
(22:32):
you did, just you being successful, You're being confident, You're
feeling like a strong person. That makes them go off
the wall, off the rail, how you want to say it.
Can't love others properly unless we love ourselves. And that's
where all insecurity and you know, lack of self worth,
lack of self esteem come from. And I think that's
something we've been covering a lot in in a broader
(22:55):
aspect with the show, that the difference between self esteem
and self worth, right, and how both have to be
cultivated so much, and how that starts at home, especially
with young girls, like we can see what how the
world perceives us as attractive, as intelligent, or as well spoken,
but if we don't believe it, it doesn't matter. And
how yeah, how we just have to marry those two
(23:16):
concepts to our kids every single day, especially through the
lens of social media, and it's also this whole like um,
you know, princess and the pea, and you know was
what was the other one? The girl that the girl
who got married Sleeping beauty, right, not sleeping beauty, the
one with the sholla. So I remember my daughter, I
mean I remember this so distinctly. In my bathroom there
(23:39):
was the tub and she sits stand on the tub
so she could look at the mirror, and I'd be
getting ready for black tie and being old dog up.
You know, Mom, you're so pretty, You're so beautiful, and
one day I'm gonna be beautiful too, and a man
will is gonna want me. I go, let me talk
about you for no, no, no, no, no no no.
First of all, beauty is only skin deep. You're gonna
work on being a warm person, a giving person, a
(24:02):
generous person, a loving person, and you're going to decide
who you want, because every man is gonna want you.
And even in a career with women, I always say,
don't look to your left, don't look to your right,
don't like, don't look what everyone else is doing. No,
concentrate on you, follow your own path, your own way,
and just make it happen. And that takes us to
(24:22):
being ourselves right and really being unapologetically proud to be ourselves.
And I think that is a theme that comes up
quite often with you, Ramona um this quote with no
origin that we all like to put out on the internet.
You know, be yourself. Everybody is already taken. And I
guess it's we were talking about this. It's not Oscar
Wild who knows who it is, but it's relevant no
(24:43):
matter who we at treat us too. And you know,
like you you recently said something about the new cast
for the show and how you know they that the
audience knows if you're faking it, and you know they
need to not try to copy it past cast members.
They need to be themselves and you can teach them
kind of how to be icons. And when I read this,
I perceived it as, Yeah, you're trying to tell them
(25:05):
you really need to be authentic for this to work exactly.
And I think that the world's kind of expecting us
to conform to what they expect to see on that show.
So do you have advice, like for just being unapologetically
yourself in that way? You know, I think the main
reason why is on for so many years it is
(25:27):
because I'm unfiltered. I say what everyone else is thinking.
And you know, basically, I remember they flew me over
to New Zealand the new housewives there, and they want
to plan what you're gonna do on the show and
talk what they're gonna say about the show. If they do,
that's how it works. No, just start filming and just
let it. Let it roll. And if you don't like
that woman's blue shirt, or you think are skirts too high,
(25:50):
don't keep yourself like you know what, why is that
screwt too so high? I think it looks ridiculous on me.
And that's what I do. Unfiltered. I say what everyone's thinking.
So sometimes I get a little flat for it, but
you know what, I know what I'm doing. I mean,
I'm not into TV to be unsuccessful. I did to
be successful. Am I acting? I'm not acting? But of
course I pump it up, but in a genuine way.
(26:11):
And I like that in real life. If I didn't
like your blue shirts, shall we think that blue shirt?
You know? I you should only be were in red
and yellow? Why blue? It looks terrible on you. I
would never say that to you, but on TV I
would so that's just an example. Just because you're wearing
a bluish navy shirts of Susie as an example, Yeah,
like what color is this? Um will? You really have
endured and outlasted everyone on that show. So I think
(26:31):
that's a testament to authenticity, right, just being yourself and
being yourself pumped up right on steroids. What about being
yourself off TV? I'll tell you, not being on this
show for a couple of years has really relaxed me.
I feel I'm just a softer person. You don't realize,
even though I say I can block these out, you
(26:52):
don't realize when you're filming a show as intensely as
this on Bravo, how much it does emotionally and mentally,
that shoot and drains you. You know, you're like like
you're on it's like a high. You know, you're on
Adrenaline's almost like a it's a high, some kind of
a high, and it winds you all up and you
can't relax. And now I just I mean, I'm taking
(27:13):
this whole hiatus. I'm trying to do different things. My
daughter and I are gonna do a podcast. I'll ask
you for some advice because I know you like to empowermen,
and um, I'm just so much happier. I mean, I
don't have to prove anything now. I mean I'm sixties something.
Just say sixties something, as I say ageless. And I've
accomplished so much more in my life than I ever
thought possible. I mean, I grew Upstate New York. My
(27:35):
dad was an engineer. My mom is a homemaker. She
did a little bit of real estate. I really State
Licesnes too. But I surpassed all of my dreams so far.
And I feel my life. I just tell my daughter,
I'm living to be a hind he I'm gonna die
and a hundred looking quite pretty, not really ill and
just dying in my sleep. I have a lot of
life in me. I love life. I love people, people
for me, my food, my food, my sunshine, my water.
(27:58):
I thrive on people and doing things with great people
and meeting new people. So yeah, I'm enjoying what I'm doing.
I'm meeting I mean, I have a place down on
Palm Beach. I have a whole new group of friends
down there. Um. My other advice to older women, we
outlive our husbands a lot of our friends. Because I'm
gonna look to a hundred. I'm now picking friends and
having friends that are twenty years younger because they just
(28:20):
because they better be around because they will be And
I don't want to all of a sudden wake up
one morning and I have, you know, no no one
in my life because everyone you know, because I passed.
You know, I'm like very healthy for my age. I mean,
nothing's going to happen to me until I'm a hundred.
So I love people. So I'm learning to have friends
or they're just coming to me. Ease, have a high energy.
(28:42):
And I think that's important as you get older, once
you turn fifties six, because I say it's hard to
meet good friends as you get older, you know. But
for me, maybe it's not because I traveled so much.
I I meet people through businesses and social networking. So
I'm collecting friends. And why people collect? What do people collect?
I don't know, candles, flowers. I think it's about being
(29:03):
curious as well. You're a curious person. And when you're
curious and you feel like you know yourself yet you're
not afraid to evolve, that's that that is a really
key things. When we keep hilarious, not afraid to fool.
You know, I always say life just like a shark.
You've gotta keep moving or your die keep evolving. That
is so profound and so well said. It was so true.
(29:25):
Now I was I was looking at a little a
few clips today from from your your work, and I
was seeing like a whole apology thing, and I made
me think of why women are expected to apologize all
the time. Now, an apology can be a great thing sometimes,
but I notice with my daughter, and I want to
get your parenting advice on this, that she just says
(29:47):
she's sorry all the time. Like I'll be doing homework
with her and I'm like, oh, no, you know this
is a little bit different right here, and she's like, oh,
I'm sorry. I'm like, why are you saying you're sorry?
We're not And then she says saying sorry. I was like,
oh god, Carmon, no, no, no, you don't have to
say you're sorry. Don't go through a life constantly Apologizeing
goes to being unapologetically yourself and then just being able, Yes,
(30:09):
of course we're gonna mess up sometimes and we should
apologize for that. And then there's times where you were
just apologizing because it's inner vocabulary, not you're right. It's
almost like the verbal crutch, right, because you default to
that almost it's like that SNL skate. I think we've
all seen it where it's a bunch of women on
a stage and a panel and it's probably like a
Ted Talk model and they're all saying like, oh, I'm sorry,
(30:32):
but oh I'm sorry, I'm sorry, but I have something
to say, and like it does, there's not one sentence
uttered without an apology attached. And it's an interesting think
about because if you if you flip that to to
the other gender, you're not gonna hear I'm sorry. I
think maybe society teaches us to say that. We think
we can't have a different opinion. We think they did
hurt someone's feelings, and instead of trying to say, oh
(30:56):
I didn't know that it hurts you or upset you.
So next time, now I know it, I will you know,
I'll be conscious of sorry, right, I will hear you. Yeah,
I know. It's kind of just yeah, we need any word.
Um no, that makes sense. That makes a lot of sense.
And how do you how do you teach that to
your daughter or has that had had to has that
had to be something you teach to her. I remember
(31:19):
the biggest thing I would teach my daughter when she
was getting older was, um, we would you'll see with
your girls before they go to college or when their
teens they start fighting with you, because you know, my
daughters are so close, we're so close that she wants
to get a little independent. So sometimes I butt heads
with her and we have arguments, and then I finally
realized that, you know what, I'm not going to win
(31:39):
this and what's the point. So I'd walk away and
I would just say to her, you know what, Avery,
I'm not liking you right now, So I'm going to
leave the room and don't don't go talk. Where you going?
Do you still love me? What? Mom? Me? What? What? What?
And I just look at it, Avery, I'll always love you,
but right now I'm just not liking you and I
need a time out from you. And that was that,
(31:59):
I remember, Psychologically worked really well for us. I also
taught my daughter. Yeah, I taught my daughter to you know,
my mother taught me to be financially independent. So my
daughter has really strong work ethics. And I remember the
thing I was most proud about of her is um
you know when she was in school, like, why don't
have a credit card. I'm sorry, I'm not giving a
(32:20):
credit Well knows that's credit card. I don't really care
not giving me a credit card because I got myself
in big debt the credit card. Thank god my ex
boyfriend paid it off and I didn't can get another
credit cards thirty five years old because afraid of debt.
So um. So what happened was she um, she was
in college graduating and it's a big trip. They do
the college trip, they go on vacation. And I had
(32:41):
just spent for me a lot of money taking away
first class major hotels to Europe. We went to Paris
and London. And so she's like, Mom, I need like
now two thousand dollars to go on this trip. Are
you know, Avery, I just got divorced from your dad. Um,
I just took in this major trip, so no, you
you to gure it out. So she did that, you
(33:01):
have if what she did was resource book. She ran
the whole trip for the college students. She found kids
to go on this trip, pay for her trip for free.
She was They were so proud of her, the people
who had the trip for all these kids. They gave
her extra money. The kids were also thrilled that, they said,
this is the best trip we ever went on her
life because she just organized it and she knew where
(33:24):
to go and we're gonna make the reservations and planned
all the activities and found the spot. So yeah, So
if you just give kids stuff, they're not going to
really try it hard to do things on their own,
you know. I mean, yes, did I have the money
to give it to her, of course I did, But
I don't wanted to be dependent upon me always giving
their money. Figure out a way to finding out your way. Yeah,
if you never have to figure it out, you never
(33:45):
start searching, right, And that's where we find like our
greatest talent, skills, passions, you know, I think all the
things that make us our best. But hearing you talk
about your daughter, clearly you too are extremely close. And
as a daughter with a mother who's a therapist. By
the way, I said, there's that that whole wonderful thing,
and we're analyzing you every day. Oh my god, when
(34:06):
I'm going through it, there's no one better to talk to.
And we are very close. But you know, mother and
daughter relationships can have their moments. They can they can
sometimes be complex and you know, ever as it can
of every relationship. Um, but how do you how did you?
And maybe with or without the show, because I guess
you know you were on it for so long. She
grew up on the show a great deal of her life.
(34:28):
Do you think that that helped strengthen the bond? Kind
of YouTube really kind of YouTube against the world or well,
she was about twelve when I did the show, and
she say like, why can't you just be my mother?
Like why do you have people? You know? I remember
taking to a Britney Spears concert and Madison Square Garden
or just to be for someone of those famous singers,
and this woman wanted to scream it's right, sort of
(34:52):
hated me being recognized, could stet it? Why can't you
just be my mom? So that was that was not
a good thing. Um, when I was feeling sometimes I
would have to film. I remember it was I was
this was like first season when I yelled at Alex
and Simon, why Simon are you at this dinner? It's
a girl's dinner because I left my dinner, my ex husband,
(35:14):
myself and my daughter. We have a formal European background.
He's been a beautiful dinner every night with candles and
silver and crystal, and it was like, where are you going?
Why are you leaving us for dinner? I said, I
have to film, so um. She would get upset when
I had to film at nights because we were always
a very strong family unit. But it was only for
four months. But and then you know, yeah, the attention.
(35:38):
I mean, she actually showed me a video when she
was in Chicago that this woman came up to saying,
you know you're Avery, You're Avery, and She's like, I'm dancing.
Please please go away. I don't want to be known
as Avery from this show I wanted. She wants her
own identity, her own independence. Um. So yeah, so it had,
you know, had a little bit of some problems for
her and went through a phase when I was younger
(35:59):
and my boys didn't do it as much. But it
might just be because of the age, but she went
through a phase where she would freak out if I
had to work, and I was constantly working from home
and then going to a photo shoot and then going
and being on Rachel Ray and then the Today Show,
and I'd want to bring her with me everywhere because
it was like all right, she she was in like
preschool so she could come with me. And she went
(36:21):
through a period where she would try to in like
the dressing rooms they have the TV, and I would
go out and she'd be screaming and I was just like,
I'm just on the other side. She would try to
get into the TV. When she was like really like two,
she was like, I wan my mom And like one
time I was doing a shoot for I Feel like
it was in style and I had to be in
like a yoga pose and I had I think three
(36:42):
kids at the time, who knows, who knows a lot
of kids at the time, and I'm so like beholding
all of them. And the people who were doing the
shoot had this idea that none of them had kids.
They're like, we want you to be balancing a green
juice like this, holding your hand here. Somehow you're holding
three children. She screamed the entire time and then sat
on top of me on my yoga mat and would
(37:04):
not let me take pictures. It was like the biggest
like nightmare ever she was. She's like, this is my mommy.
I don't know who you people are, and green juices girls,
it should have been ice cream. If you is ice cream,
I would have breed to this. But exactly, yeah, I
know it's a it's it's interesting parenting through through all
of this. But you know, I mean I feel like
for for moms too that are, you know, bringing their
(37:25):
their kids to work. It's it's it's hard to watch
your watch your parents go and work. And there's just
a whole another animal when you do it the way
the way that you've done it. So we we do
(37:45):
something on our podcast that's called what are We Coveting
in the Coven, which is just a fun product that
we're using, fun product experience thing, anything that you want
to want to recommend. We want to know what's your
Kevin Ramona, Well, I'm really into I love lipsticks and
lip glosses and lip pencils. And my biggest problem is
(38:07):
because I because I have different colors that I like,
I misplace everything. So Lisa Renna, she has a line
called ran A Beauty and there's a color she does
called Legends. So it's like the lipstick with the lip
pencil and the lip gloss and they all three go together.
So if you just if you put them and you
know they match and then you know they work. So
(38:29):
that this is my and I love this color called
Legends because it's like a peachy CORALI color because I
used to sometimes we're pinky, but because I'm blonde and
brown eyes, I look better than the peaches and corals.
So ran a Beauty her Brye color pack. There's nothing
worse than having like twenty five different lip glosses just
floating around your purse like a fish bowl, like I
never right, and then you know, and then the lip
(38:49):
pencil to go with the actual lipstick. You know, it's
very difficult to find that. So I love that that
she has that together. So okay, that's right now, my
go to it. I have it wherever I go. Now,
thank you so much, thank you for being here. All right,
bye guys. Michelle Ramona was the perfect first guest Witchy
in like all the best ways and just such a
(39:13):
good energy to start this project off where you know
people would come out We're not perfect, we're not polished maybe,
but we have confidence and we can get to a
place where women support women and we you know, together,
we got this in our govern She was fantastic and
a real reminder of how much the media can influence
(39:35):
us and how much intensity it can bring to our lives,
and the idea that it's just gossiping. It's gossiping about
a whole load of people, you know what I mean that,
but a whole load of people, I should say, gossiping
about one person. And we all know, for you guys
at home, that it could be one person gossiping about
you or one million people gossiping about you. It's just
a really bad feeling. So, you know, my my heart
(39:58):
goes out to her with her experiences that you know
she's that she so kindly shared with us, and I'm
really glad that she is in a more calm and
peaceful place with more privacy. Absolutely, you know, And like
you say, one or one million, it's still hurts and
we can't control how we are perceived. And that reminds
(40:19):
me and brings me to our Witch of the Week
this week, whose perception in the media was completely distorted
and insane. So this week's which of the week is?
And the witch of the week every week is going
to be a woman in history that was left out
of the story, demonized, was called a witch, was called crazy,
(40:41):
was called amazing, but everyone forgot to talk about her
and put her in the books. Every week we honor
a woman that has inspired, has been torn down, has
been through it. And so this week we are putting
our spotlight on Clara bou. Clara Beau was born in
Brooklyn in five. She was infamous for her entanglements with men,
(41:03):
her partying, alcohol consumption, and most famous for captivating audiences
on the silver screen. She was an extremely famous actress
in her day, and Clara Beau one of fame and fortune.
Contest in that put her on this path and changed
her life forever, gave her exposure. A small role in
a movie her first evening gown, and eventually that led
(41:25):
to her becoming a contracted player at Paramount and Clara's
films just killed it in the box office. She was
most famous for being in a movie called It, which
was an adaptation of an Eleanor Glynn novel. Eleanor Glenn
was one of the most notorious and amazing journalists and
writers of her day, and we will be covering her
at another time. But in this film, um, she's essentially
(41:48):
the girl and she is. She plays a shop girl
with sites on her boss but unfortunately, despite this film
being a huge hit and extremely entertaining, Clara's talent and
success were always overshadowed by her public persona, which was
heavily heavily influenced by the media of the day. Um
she was a notorious wild child. Before that was a term,
(42:10):
she was considered the embodiment of a jazz age flapper,
and the flapper we so often attribute to the Great Gatsby,
you know, the flapper was more or less defined as
a woman exuding charms, sexuality, sex appeal, wearing you know,
clothes that were a little more suggestive, having you know,
more of a willingness to drink publicly, drink with the boys,
(42:32):
be really fun. Clara's partying and her drinking it really
just ended up taking the spotlight off of the great
work she did. She infamously fought the studios to have
the morals clauses removed from her contract. Now. Morals clauses
are legal agreements that actors have to make stating that
they would behave according to certain um, usually agreed upon
(42:52):
guidelines determined by the film studio. So any violation of
those terms could cause the actor to lose their job
and Clara was the first woman who who fought for that,
and she was the first woman who really at that
time was unapologetically herself in a Hollywood where that was
virtually unheard of. Um. She would often say, I'm a
(43:13):
big old freak because I'm myself. And she was not
the first of her kind, and she won't be the last.
But you know, Clara, we honor her for speaking out,
speaking up, acting out, but unfortunately being criticized for it.
And if there's a takeaway from what you just shared
with s Michelle about Clara, or from Ramona or probably
(43:35):
any of the things that you guys feel that you've experienced,
is that so many times we say, oh, well, she
signed up for it, and she's a strong woman and
she's trying to be you know, like all big and
bold and everything. So somehow she's built differently that she
can receive that kind of judgment and negativity. And I
can tell you that it doesn't work that way. And
(43:56):
for the women like Clara and Ramona who are brave
enough to go out there and be big and be
bold and be free, rather than having that be sort
of just a you know, we think that it's an
invitation to pick at them and put them up there
and sort of gossip about them. Rather than having that
be the case, we can look at them and say,
that's an invitation to inspire me to also be big,
(44:19):
be bold, be free, because we should be taking up
all the space. So I'm very grateful that Ramona opened
up about her her mental health, her feelings about how
you know, she's been treated, and then but still saying, hey,
you know what, this is who I am, and I'm
proud of who I am. All right, one more thing
before we go, Michelle, what are we covering in our
(44:40):
coven this week? What are we coverting in our covering
this week? Well, I have mine right here. This is
a beverage I love. It's called Mama Mama. It is
my friends company. It's a female owned company. It's a
prebiotic fiber drink um. It tastes delicious, has vitamin C.
It's all natural. There's not any artificial artificial sweeteners. Maybe
(45:06):
I do need some caffeine um, but it is delicious, effervescent,
and I love I love the taste and the canon
and there's a cute little llama on it and supporting
female owned businesses. So this is my covet and what
are you coveting? I am a coveting sleep which is
for me with a seven week old is all about
(45:26):
the swaddle. So there's this brand called snuggle Meat Organic
and it makes an amazing swaddle because it has a
stretch to it which I could never get a super
tight swaddle on the baby with the muslin ones. So
if you got like a little stretch, I can really
like wrap her up like a little burrito and it
gives me a little bit more asleep, not a lot,
(45:46):
but a little bit more asleep because you guys, know what,
like infants, they startle themselves awake. So the tighter you
make them, the better they sleep, and the better I sleep.
I love a cozy little burrito. Very cute. All right, Whiches,
thanks for listening. Follow us on Instagram at which is
a nonpod, and make sure to write us a review,
(46:07):
a nice review, and leave us five stars. See you
next time.
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