July 4, 2024 • 35 mins
The best of the Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show Hour 3.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thank you for listening. This is the best of with
Clay Travis and Buck Sexton.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Welcome back into Clay and Buck here in studio with
us today. Nellie Bowles, I'm gonna talk to us about
her new book, Morning After the Revolution, Dispatches from the
Wrong Side of History. She's here in studio with me, Clay.
She is formerly a New York Times correspondent, so she
(00:26):
is a refugee from the communist camp and we have
much to discuss with her, and her book is actually about.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
This to some degree. So let's start with it.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Oh and we want to talk about the Free Press
as well, which is the media company that you and.
Speaker 4 (00:40):
Barry Clay Weiss.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Yes, Barry Wise has founded with her, and they're both
you guys are married and also founded this company together.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
It's doing very very well.
Speaker 4 (00:51):
Nellie.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Let's start with Morning After the Revolution.
Speaker 4 (00:54):
So I did read the first two chapters and it was.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Fun because I got I got to sit there and
see so the New York Times is as insane from
the inside as me, an outsider who grew up in
New York City thinks it is.
Speaker 5 (01:09):
Well, first of all, let me just say it's a
pleasure to be here.
Speaker 4 (01:12):
Very nice to see you.
Speaker 5 (01:12):
And I don't think there are enough American flags around
me in this studio.
Speaker 4 (01:17):
Many American flags.
Speaker 5 (01:18):
There need to be more. There's some mall space that
doesn't have an American flag on it. Yeah. So I wrote
the book as really an insider in prestige media. I
think that what was going on at the New York Times,
which anyone from the outside can obviously see what's happening inside,
more or less, I think what was going on there
was also going on within NPR, within half a dozen
(01:42):
of the prestige media brands. And it's basically a movement
to say, don't report on anything that isn't beneficial, specifically
to the Democratic Party and to our sort of politics
of the day. And that's just a really boring way
to be a writer. That's not a way. It's not fun.
(02:03):
You can't be curious. And you're seeing now. I don't
know if you saw last week the editor in chief
of the New York Times came out and said in
a major earth chattering statement, the New York Times is
not in the business of helping promote Joe Biden, and
we need to stop that sort of.
Speaker 4 (02:23):
Advotation, advocacy Journal, and the fact that he needed to.
Speaker 5 (02:26):
Say it is unbelievable. But it's amazing that he needed
to make the statement. It was, of course controversial that
he made it. But yeah, So it's a book about
the last few years, which I think we all can
see everyone went a little crazy and now is starting
to come to their senses a way.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
It's like she takes a little surveillance camera and we
get to know what it's like inside the writing of
the Daily Communist Manifesto over in Times Square.
Speaker 6 (02:51):
So well, look, I'm a long time New York Times subscriber.
I subscribe to the Washington Post, I subscribe to the
Wall Street Journal. I read everything, as you have to
do when you're doing a show like this, to try
to familiarize yourself with all arguments. So I have a
couple of questions, and I'm curious if you address them
in the book, And thanks for coming in studio with
us in New York where Buck is right now. So one,
(03:13):
is Trump in your mind a cause of this or
is he merely a symptom and he's not really the cause?
I'm curious how you would assess that.
Speaker 3 (03:23):
That's second part of this, Yeah.
Speaker 6 (03:25):
Second part of this because I don't know the answer,
and I think it's a great debate. Second part of this,
how much of it do you think is subscription based?
In other words, instead of having an advertiser business, which
is you want as many people as possible to read
the paper, now you're basically selling to the diehards, which
is a different business model. Those are two questions. I
(03:46):
don't know what your answer would be, but I'm curious
how you would assess them.
Speaker 5 (03:49):
Those are both great questions I try to wrestle with
in the book. I think if you look at how
The New York Times is doing as a business, it's
doing great. Yeah, And that's because, as like you said,
as it pivoted from being an advertiser business, where Macy's
and Clorox just want maximum eyes, they don't necessarily and
(04:10):
they actually really don't want it to just be limited
to this political group or that political group. So you're
incentivized to serve a broader audience. But as it pivots
to a subscription business, the logical thing to do is
to serve those subscribers. And what those subscribers want is
red meat. They want to be told every single day
(04:30):
the same bad things about Trump, things that it's not
like it's lies necessarily other than like lies of omission.
Sometimes there's lies. But they want to be given the
red meat of anti Trump content every day. And they
want the paper to be their sword in the world,
to be there, to be their soldier out there fighting
(04:51):
for them. And that's what they're paying for the subscription,
and the Times courted that with the advertising model and
with with their with not the advertising model, with the
advertising campaigns around framing themselves as the subscriber's sword in
the world. Now, ez for did Trump and his rise?
Speaker 4 (05:10):
Did he break them?
Speaker 3 (05:11):
This is we talked about cause emotionally symptom.
Speaker 4 (05:15):
Did he emotionally break them? Or is it just the
last straw.
Speaker 5 (05:18):
I'm going to go on the side of yeah, I
think Trump emotionally broke them a little bit. I think
his wildness and his lack of like traditional decorum made
it so the Democrats became a little wild and lost
their sense of traditional decorum. Because if you think about
all the old values of the old journalists and things,
(05:40):
it's it's a lot of it is like a manners
and decorum and sort of like this is how we
like to act and this is what we like to
you know, the idea of objectivity is an aspiration. And
when someone like Trump comes in and is a uniquely
polarizing or whatever you want to call it, he's wild,
(06:00):
he's nuts, he's saying crazy, just talking to it.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
We're just talking to him last night.
Speaker 5 (06:05):
And so so yeah, and so then you've got the
Times definitely reacting, you have the whole liberal intelligentsia definitely reacting.
I don't think that's an excuse, though. I don't think
you can say, oh, I just got a note saying
no cursing.
Speaker 4 (06:23):
No, it's okay, it's just we're on broadcast radio.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
I wish, I wish we could just let you let
it fly.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
But unfortunately there are there are limitations. There are limitations. Look,
we were talking, we were talking to Trump last night.
He's he's a he's Trump, and you can't even really
begin to describe it. I think at this point it's
fair to say he's the most famous person on the planet.
He's the most polarizing person in the United States of
any real magnitude politically, and so the question as to
(06:47):
whether or not he broke them up.
Speaker 4 (06:49):
I could say this, I grew up here in.
Speaker 3 (06:50):
New York City.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
My family were New York Times subscribers growing up. Most
of the people that grew that were around me, I think,
have grown up to be by voting Obama, voting Democrats,
et cetera. And it's very clear though that even they
recognize what you said about the creation of the New
York Times or the perception of the New York Times
as the sword in the world for the left. Trump
(07:13):
there was like an explicit shift right of now the
truth is anti Trump, therefore anti Trump is the truth.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
And that changed.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
And I think that we saw that the Washington Posts
saw that The New York Times.
Speaker 5 (07:24):
We saw that NPR came out proudly and said we're
not covering the Hunter Biden.
Speaker 4 (07:28):
Right because that would help the enemy.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
Effectively, we're proudly we're speaking to Nelly Balls or book
by the Way, Morning after the Revolution, Dispatches from the
Wrong Side of History, and I just say, our producer
Ali Clay read the entire thing. We get books, We
get books and top books, the top books. We get
like books for people I've never heard of before, books
and foreign languages, like we got books everywhere here. For
(07:50):
one of our producers to go and read it cover
to cover and then make sure that Nelly comes on
I think says something about what's in it. I just
want to pose this one to you, Nelly, for me. Actually,
it felt like the Tom Cotton op ed was. I
know a lot of people felt this way a turning point.
A sitting senator making an argument on the editorial page
(08:10):
is unacceptable to the rest of the tribe, so to speak.
Inside the Times, how did that play out?
Speaker 5 (08:16):
I think, I mean at this point we've all read
a lot about how that played out, and how it
played out was basically internally within the Times, every good
reporter had to get together and tweet the same tweet.
We were all supposed to tweet that this op ed
puts our black colleagues in danger, that a sitting senator
saying to call in cops, to call in the National
(08:37):
Guard to quell some of the riots puts our colleagues
somehow in danger. And if you didn't post that message,
you were on the wrong side, and you would start
people would notice, they reach out right, Yeah, And so
I was never canceled. I'm not here like with a
tiny violin complaining like our life is great. We now
(08:57):
have the Free Press like things are fabulous. At the
time when I was there as a staffer, when I
didn't post the tweet and try to cancel that the
young editor who was behind that op ed, or was
one of the editors behind it, that was kind of
my end of my time there. It was sort of
the line drawn in the sand by the movement, and
(09:18):
it said, you have to post something irrational, You have
to post something that we all kind of know is
a lie. The op ed doesn't put lives in danger,
but you have to do that, and if you don't,
then you're clearly not with us. So and that's not
coming from the top down. That's coming bottom up. And
I think a lot of what we're seeing in these
companies and in universities too right now with what's going
(09:42):
on campus, it's it's bottom up, and then the leadership
crumbles to it. So obviously then the editor, the opinion
section editor at the Times, after that piece Ran had
to resign. Was basically fucking a forced resignation.
Speaker 6 (09:57):
Also, the last question for you, I encourage you have
everybody to go check it out and also check out
the Free Press.
Speaker 5 (10:02):
Let me tell you to check out the Free Press.
Speaker 6 (10:05):
Having read this book, I did a little bit of
player managing myself when I ran out Kick, and then
I sold it to Fox. I'm curious for you to
analyze what you think the future is of news and journalism.
I'm sure you thought about it a lot as you
wrote the book. You're having a lot of success at
the Free Press, which is a subscriber based platform. You're
a player manager, I would imagine, in some ways, along
(10:27):
with your wife and trying to manage this new era
of journalism and news. Are you optimistic that we come
through the Trump era, however it ends, and news is
in a better place. Or do you think we fragmented
and blown up to such an extent that everybody just
goes and finds their shard of reality and there is
(10:47):
no sort of cohesive news industry anymore.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
Where are we going?
Speaker 5 (10:51):
I think the new world of media upstarts is obviously
so exciting guys like Real Player who are coming up
to push against the legacy press and to have the
old values but in slightly new formats. What are we
at the Free Press. We're a newsletter that's now a website,
we have a podcast. We're not doing anything revolutionary in
(11:13):
terms of form. What's revolutionary is we're doing old fashioned
journalism with the skill sets and the values of the
old world, but the freedom and curiosity of the new
And I'm really optimistic about us, obviously, but others too.
I'm optimistic about a bunch of new media up starts.
And then what in my dream world happens is then
(11:36):
all of these upstarts start to pressure the legacy media
to be more honest, to get better, to improve itself,
and so hopefully the free press ends up making the
New York Times a better place and making NPR a
better place. Hopefully it makes a better ecosystem, a more
honest one. I think no one wants to be lied to,
and no one wants even your political adversaries, no one
(11:57):
wants them fed laws.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
About the future as well. This is great. I'm going
to read the book.
Speaker 6 (12:03):
To bucks point Ally's point, we get a lot of books.
I'm very fascinated to read yours. Keep up the good work.
Congrats on the book coming out, and hopefully we'll talk
to you again soon.
Speaker 5 (12:11):
Thank you so much for having me on your producers.
A very smart woman.
Speaker 3 (12:14):
We agree it.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
You're listening to the best of Clay Travis and Bucks. Second,
I'm pretty into coffee. I'm pretty in the coffee. I'm
not I'm not going to say that. Like I mean,
I've been drinking coffee every day. I'm pretty sure I
started in high school.
Speaker 6 (12:27):
Oh really all the way back. See, I've started here
the last few years because I love it.
Speaker 3 (12:33):
Now.
Speaker 6 (12:34):
This is one where I listen to my wife. Listen
to your wives out there. I drink a lot of soda.
I love Mountain dew. I still do, but I was like,
I'm getting you know, I'm forty five now, I don't
know that I gain a lot by drinking soda, and
so this is way healthier. I drink black coffee usually
throw ice in it. You can watch me live drinking
(12:57):
it throughout the course of this show.
Speaker 3 (12:59):
I kind of love it. I like going to coffee
shops now.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
I feel like a little bit like of au indoor
scarf when you go to the coffee shop.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
Very important to go star.
Speaker 6 (13:09):
I have to have some some measure of sanity.
Speaker 3 (13:13):
But I love it. I even get this, maybe a downer.
Speaker 6 (13:17):
I even now will get espresso martinis when I go
into a uh into a bar. Sometimes this guy's talking
the guy who loves espresso martinis and the British Royal
family is talking. Man, I understand. I understand if a
lot of you can't trust me anymore. I usually my
standard I like beer, obviously, uh, but usually my standard
(13:40):
liquor drink is an old fashion, big fan of old fashions,
like Buffalo Trace and all of their lineage of whiskeys, bourbons,
all that stuff. But I love a smoked old fashion.
Now I'm really kind of getting into the espresso martini.
I don't know what percentage of men by espresso martinis
(14:00):
versus women.
Speaker 3 (14:01):
It's a good question. It's not a lot you think.
So here's the deal.
Speaker 6 (14:06):
I've been noticing a lot more men drinking espresso martinis
because of the coffee. You want a little bit of
a liquor, but you want some caffeine and you don't
want to go Red Bull, right, red Bull vodka.
Speaker 3 (14:17):
Remember when Red Bull vodkas were really popular.
Speaker 6 (14:20):
I don't know if anybody orders Red Bull vodka anymore,
but it used to be the drink when you're like
kind of need a little bit of a pick me up.
The espresso martini actual coffee in it, it's really good,
but so crocket coffee.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
Yes, Crocketcffee dot comm it's why you need that delicious,
wonderful Crockett coffee. And yeah, I I want. Do we
have a few, call, I've lost them. If we had them,
I had them up a second ago.
Speaker 6 (14:46):
No, I'm getting lit up already by the espresso Martini.
It would help if the glass was more masculine. I
think the espresso Martini would sell ten times as much
to men if they just put it in a whiskey
glass as opposed to the Martine glass. What's the point
you were talking earlier about the wineglass? What is the
point someone tell me of a Martini glass other than
(15:08):
the way it looks.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
Well, one thing is they can they can actually pour
a lot less liquor into it. It looks like it
holds more volume than it does because of the shape.
It's a bit of an optical illusion. You have far
less booze in a Martini glass than you realize.
Speaker 6 (15:25):
That probably is true, But I mean, like, what would
is there is there a taste component that would make
it not work in a whiskey glass. No, definitely, So
maybe that's what I need to do. I need to
just order it in a whiskey glass as opposed to
a martine.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
One who's telling me that your wife gets hates when
they do the three dollars charge for ice at the bar?
Or is that somebody else telling me this? Or at
a restaurant some places?
Speaker 3 (15:48):
Trying to know this occurred?
Speaker 2 (15:50):
Oh yes, Oh, I thought it was you, but must
have been one of my Miami people. Have you guys
ever heard of this? They will actually charge you extra
if you get a drink on the rocks?
Speaker 3 (16:00):
What the ice?
Speaker 2 (16:01):
I had never heard of this either, but I have
asked around a little bit, and apparently this is a
thing in some places. They charge you more for the ice.
Speaker 3 (16:11):
Oh, that's just charge more for the drink, Like that's
how I always feel. Oh that I.
Speaker 6 (16:18):
Mean, first of all, the ice has become fancier. I
get it, maybe a little bit, Like you know, the
block of ice is very cool. A lot of times
now the ice will have a logo in it or whatever.
I love I'm saying earlier the smoked old fashion that
they literally will light it. It feels like you're drinking basically
a campfire, which, believe it or not, is pretty incredible.
Like you're sitting around having smores around the campfire. I
(16:40):
love the smoked old fashioned flavor and taste, but charging
for ice is frankly beyond the pail.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
Well so that they claim now that it's actually because
if you get it on the rocks there's additional booze,
So that I think is a little bit more because yeah,
someone told me they got up charge for getting something
on the rocks. It was an extra three dollars charge.
But I guess that's because there's more liquor involved in it.
Speaker 3 (17:02):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
I don't drink very much, so I don't know these things.
I do drink a lot of coffee, however, so that's
the important thing. Okay, In case you're wondering, what do
I drink? Crockett Coffee dot com? How many that is
what I drink?
Speaker 3 (17:12):
Crocket Coffee dot Com.
Speaker 6 (17:13):
How many places do you think analyze Michigan school shooting,
Morgan Wallen throwing a chair off the roof talk to
a sitting senator in the space of three hours.
Speaker 3 (17:24):
I think the range of this show has to exceed
the range of almost any show in America on a
day to day basis. That's fair.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
I mean, we're utility players here, you know what. I mean,
you put us in any position and we'll deliver for
the coach and for the audience.
Speaker 6 (17:37):
Do not throw chairs off the roofs of balconies, but
if you do, make sure that it's over a love dispute.
Speaker 3 (17:44):
If you're a country music singer.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
You're listening to the best of Clay Travis and Buck Sexton.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
Welcome back in to Clay and Buck. We are joined
now by our friend Riley Gaines. She's got a new
book out, Swimming Against the Current, fighting for common sense
in the world that has lost its mind. It comes
out today, Swimming Against the Current, because she's a great swimmer,
so that all makes sense. And she's also at OutKick,
which Clay founded. And Riley, thanks for being here with us.
(18:15):
So how how do you think it's going? As people
see you are speaking of college campuses across the country
we've had you want to talk about how some of
that has gone. The left gets very upset when you
say men or men, women are women. These aren't the
same thing. But I'm sure you saw this this male
track star that was just absolutely annihilating his female competition
because he says he's a woman. Now, where where does
(18:37):
the fact, where does the fight stand. Where does the
battle stand?
Speaker 3 (18:40):
Right now?
Speaker 7 (18:40):
Well, Buck, let me clarify one thing really quick. In
your intro you said I'm a great swimmer. I call
myself a swimmer. Nowadays I'd probably drown if I got
in the water.
Speaker 3 (18:50):
But look, I'm very buoyant. That's my that's my special
Hey for me too.
Speaker 7 (18:54):
Now, look, this issue, of course, it's it's becoming more
and more common.
Speaker 8 (19:02):
It keeps happening at every level.
Speaker 7 (19:03):
We see it at colleges, we see at high schools,
we see at middle schools, we see it at elementary schools.
This story you're referring to, actually I don't even know
which one, because there were multiple stories this past week
in Track and Field of boys annihilating girls. We saw
it in Washington, we saw it in Oregon. It's insane,
is what it is. But you ask me where the
issue stands. While we keep seeing these negative stories, I
(19:27):
really and truly do believe that the tide is turning.
I believe every day people are waking up. Speaking to
the story in Oregon we saw for really the first
time again it's the same story. A mediocre man becomes
a record smash on the women's side, he won the
state championship in the women's two hundred meter dash. He
(19:48):
stands atop the podium and the crowd booed. That would
not have happened two years ago. So I think it's
a telltale sign that people are waking up, people are
understanding that no one is immune to this. I think
so many of us thought before we've seen the trajectory
of this.
Speaker 6 (20:03):
Now, Riley, what is the Biden administration? First of all,
congrats on the book. Second, what is the Biden administration
trying to do with the way that they defined Title nine,
which could potentially enshrine men pretending to be women in
women's athletics all across the spectrum of competition.
Speaker 3 (20:22):
What are they doing?
Speaker 7 (20:23):
Yeah, it's not even what they're trying to do, Clay,
it's what they have done. The Biden administration has rewritten.
They rewrote Title nine. Of course, Title nine was the
federal civil rights law that once prevented sex based discrimination
on educational programs that receive federal funding colleges, YMCAs, things
like that, high schools, even But what they have done
they have taken this thirty seven word, only thirty seven
(20:46):
words in its original implementation in nineteen seventy two, with
one word being activity, which I think allowed Title nine
to be what it was most notable for in giving
equal opportunities in sports, of course a lot broader than that,
but what's most notable for. They took this thirty seven
word piece of legislation and rewrote it to a almost
(21:07):
half a million word proposal five and seventy seven pages long. Again,
from thirty seven words, that's insane, But really, what this
does is it equates, in a nutshell, it equates sex
to gender identity. So instead of sex based protections, now
there are protections enshrined by your gender identity. This now
(21:31):
means that men would have full access to bathrooms, locker rooms,
changing spaces this men's means that men can potentially be
housed in dorm rooms with women. This means that men
can now take academic and athletic scholarships away from women.
Speaker 8 (21:46):
Your speech would be compelled.
Speaker 7 (21:48):
So if you write a professor or a student, if
you use the biologically incorrect pronouns the preferred pronouns of,
if you don't use preferred renowns, then you would be
guilty in charge with sexual harassment under this new rewrite,
not the man creating around your locker room. No to
(22:08):
President Biden, he's said several times, those are some of
the most brave and inspiring people he's ever seen. But
you calling a spade a spade is grounds for sexual harassment.
Speaker 3 (22:20):
It's insane.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
But this is the country, unfortunately, that we are increasingly
forced to live in. And we're speaking to Riley Gaines.
She's got a new book out today, Swimming against the
current rally. If I am correct here, and I say
that thinking that I'm almost always correct, you have put
out their challenges to different people who want a debate
on this issue. Is there anyone who will publicly, anyone
(22:43):
of note who will publicly debate that men do not
have an advantage over women as competitors in athletics?
Speaker 3 (22:50):
Like, has anyone taken you up on this of note?
Speaker 2 (22:53):
Or does everyone just push for the policy and then
run away when you ask.
Speaker 3 (22:58):
For an open exchange of ideas on it.
Speaker 7 (23:01):
We've made public calls for debate on this show. I
know we've publicly called on Keith Olberman, that guy, we've
publicly called on Megan Rappino. I'll go even further. I
would love to talk with Billy Jean King. What a
more I guess, notable person to talk to on this topic,
given the fact that she's really who we have to
(23:23):
accredit Title nine too. She played in the Battle of
the Sexes and she won and it was this huge feat.
Speaker 5 (23:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 7 (23:29):
Well, now Billy jen King is actively fighting for male
inclusion into women's sports and women's spaces. No, I've reached
out to CNN, I've reached out to MSNBC, and I've
either gotten no response or they've responded back and said,
we're not going to give.
Speaker 8 (23:43):
You a platform to spread your hate. But you know
what that tells me.
Speaker 7 (23:47):
It tells me that they don't have a rebuttal for
anything that I'm saying.
Speaker 8 (23:51):
Right, what happened to follow the science? They are not.
They are certainly not doing that now, Riley.
Speaker 6 (23:57):
I encourage everybody to go check out your book and
to share it with their daughters and also their sons,
because I think people increasingly are coming around to how
crazy this is. But I know you saw this. We
shared it at OutKick. One of our writers got Don
Staley to say that a man identifying as a woman
should be able to compete in women's college basketball. In
(24:19):
her opinion, We then reach she's the national champion University
of South Carolina women's basketball coach.
Speaker 3 (24:25):
For people who don't know.
Speaker 6 (24:27):
OutKick then reached out to fifteen other women's NC DOUBLEA
tournament coaches, in particular, every women's coach that made the
sweet sixteen of the NCUBLEA Tournament. What does it say
that Don Staley said yes, men should be.
Speaker 3 (24:43):
Able to play.
Speaker 6 (24:44):
The other fifteen wouldn't even answer outkicks question. I do
think we're winning this battle, but how much cowardice is
there still out there?
Speaker 8 (24:52):
It's in every realm. That's why our nation.
Speaker 7 (24:56):
I believe our nation is in decline for several reasons,
one of which we live in a godless society. But two,
it's because we have weak week leaders. Again at every level.
We have Week leaders in academia, we have Week leaders
in corporate America. We have week leaders of course within
our government, even our spiritual leaders. So it seems are
unwilling to take a stand on these topics that they
(25:17):
have deemed controversial. But let's be very clear, it is
the least controversial thing to say that both sexes of
are deserving of equal opportunities. How in the world have
we reached a point in time where it's controversial to
say that women deserve privacy and areas of undressing. I
mean that would have been common since five years ago,
(25:42):
a DA would have followed a man who goes into
a woman's bathroom into a woman's locker room, into that
locker room and arrested him on charges of sexual harassment, voyeurism,
and decent exposure. The list goes on. But now, as
I said, it's deemed brave, we are told we are
the problem if we oppose this. So again the coward
is Yes, it's incredibly sad because I can guarantee you
(26:04):
I really can, even speaking for Don Staley. I shouldn't
say speaking for but I imagine she knows the differences
between men and women.
Speaker 8 (26:15):
No one would know who Don Staley.
Speaker 7 (26:16):
Was if she wasn't afforded the rights to play women's basketball.
And look, that's not to say she wasn't an incredible athlete.
She obviously had an incredible coaching career. I think her
record the last three years was one hundred and nine
and three. I mean that's unheard of. But she can
be two things at once, a great coach but also
a sellout and that's exactly what she's proven herself to be.
Speaker 3 (26:39):
Riley Gaines.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
Everybody the book swimming against the current, fighting for common
sense in the world that's lost its mind out today.
Speaker 3 (26:46):
Get your copy. Riley Gaines, thank you for doing what
you do.
Speaker 4 (26:50):
Appreciate it.
Speaker 8 (26:51):
I appreciate you, guys, so thank.
Speaker 3 (26:52):
You, thank you very much. I don't know if you heard.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
President Trump apparently appreciates this too.
Speaker 3 (26:57):
I'm just saying I saw that he gave a shout out.
Speaker 6 (26:59):
He was trying to impress Riley in Lexington, which not
a bad move by him, because she's pretty popular in Kentucky.
And let's be honest, Kentucky Wildcats don't have a lot
of athletic success of late to be celebrating, particularly in
the SEC they need Riley back.
Speaker 3 (27:13):
I think she might be off the mic because that's
the only way I can take it.
Speaker 4 (27:15):
Hoe.
Speaker 7 (27:16):
No, no, no, I'm just waiting to make some common
about Rocky Top here, Clay.
Speaker 8 (27:21):
I'm biting my tongue, That's what I'm doing.
Speaker 3 (27:24):
Hey, you know what, maybe this is your year in
football for the first time in eighty.
Speaker 8 (27:28):
That is what Tennessee fans have said for so long.
Next year is our year. Next year is our year.
I'll be waiting, Clay.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
I don't know if you guys have ever been to
a dinner party where people started screaming at each other
in a foreign language, But that's kind.
Speaker 4 (27:40):
Of how I feel.
Speaker 5 (27:40):
Right.
Speaker 3 (27:41):
Welcome to the sec, Buck, This is what it's.
Speaker 7 (27:43):
Like November second, Neeland Stadium. Clay, We'll see you there.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
Balls all right, good good stuff. Gonna get Google Translate
going here.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
You're listening to the best of Clay Travis and Buck Sexton.
Speaker 6 (27:56):
Wall Street Journal had a piece about the best way
to vacation.
Speaker 3 (28:01):
I think if you and I have.
Speaker 6 (28:02):
Major, major beef that may come out here over the
best way to have vacations. But I want you to
share with the people the advice that the Wall Street
Journal gave, given the fact that it's now Memorial Day weekend, effectively.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
And hat tip to Jeff Gallac who wrote this piece
for the Journal in their travel section, how to have
a great vacation. What science tells us, So follow the science.
Fauci Is this fauci science or is this real science?
Speaker 6 (28:30):
No?
Speaker 3 (28:30):
I think no.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
These are all smart things, so this is real science,
not fauci science.
Speaker 3 (28:34):
I think, Okay, I hope.
Speaker 6 (28:36):
So when you're trying to make sure that everybody has
a fabulous Memorial Day weekend if you are traveling based
on the science according to the Wall Street Journal.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
All right, so there are a couple of core principles here.
I want to share with all of you. This might
be the most important thing you hear on radio all week.
All right, because this will affect your life. First thing
for having a great vacation. And I think this is
where Clay and I are in a rock eam sock
em Donnybrook, if you will this guy there, Yeah, thank you, sir.
Speaker 4 (29:02):
Gaalac says, do less.
Speaker 3 (29:04):
And here's what he writes.
Speaker 2 (29:04):
If you love the beach, you should get in as
many beach days as possible. If you love an art museum,
go see every painting. Sounds logical, but only if you
want to have a not so enjoyable vacation. One of
the primary reasons vacations fall flat is because of an
inalienable truth about hedonic consumption. Enjoyment declines with time. So
basically he's saying, don't overdo any one thing.
Speaker 3 (29:28):
And what I said to Clay is I get to
the beach. And maybe it's because.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
I'm pale and Anglo Irish in origin and can't tan
and you know whatever. You could throw all these calumnies
at me, But I go to the beach. After two hours,
I'm like, I need to get inside of air conditioning
and read a book. Right, Like, you don't need to
You don't need to have six Margerita's day one, have one.
You don't need to go to every museum in the place.
(29:54):
Only go to the ones with cool war stuff. What
do you You seem to think that you can go
all in and there's no problem.
Speaker 6 (30:00):
Well, so my thing is it depends on the type
of vacation that you are scheduled to have. So when
I went to Italy last year, which i'd never been to,
I took my family. I want to see as much
of Italy as I can because I don't know if
I'll ever get to go again, for instance, But at
one point my youngest kid was like another church, which
(30:22):
was very funny because obviously we're going into all these old,
you know, esteemed historic churches all over Italy, and I
enjoyed them all. But I understand the point of if
you were a first grader or a second grader, you're
like dad. Another old church, another old cathedral. I get it,
(30:44):
so I understand that.
Speaker 3 (30:45):
But I think.
Speaker 6 (30:46):
And then we went to Australia, two places that I've
wanted to go my whole life. I want to see
at all because I don't know that I'm ever going
to be back there. But if I go to a
beach and my kids are now old enough that I
don't have to say sit terrified about every time they
get close to the water, which every parent or grandparent
(31:06):
with a young child will understand. It's not fun necessarily
to be at the pool or to be at the
beach when you've got a young kid who doesn't swim
very well. You got to have your head on a swivel.
You can't have many marguerite as, you can't have many beers.
I want to just do nothing. So this weekend I
would be very happy where I'm going to the beach
(31:28):
if I don't have to go more than one mile
in either direction and there is virtually nothing accomplished at
all that's other than hanging out.
Speaker 2 (31:36):
You're agreeing with the science here, he says, do less.
The point here is just don't overdo anything that you're
doing not doing anything isn't a thing you can really
do too much of. I just meant too many hours
in the sun directly, but like he's talking about how
you shouldn't show up and schedule out in hourly increments
or something like that. Yeah, your vacation, so you're actually
(31:59):
we did so.
Speaker 6 (32:00):
He did that in Italy and Australia. I think it
matters what the vacation is. Like some vacations, the goal
is I just want to chill, I want to sleep,
I want to have a few drings.
Speaker 3 (32:09):
Clay is going against the science once again. I will
say this.
Speaker 6 (32:12):
You were talking about how easily you sunburned. I don't
know if you even heard this. And we had our
eighteen hour photo shoot last week. When you left, I
came in and they were like, oh, your skin is
actually tannible, unlike your radio show co host. We're going
to have to change the coloration on the shots that
we're taking because of how pale he was.
Speaker 2 (32:32):
I don't even think you heard this. Shots fired, shots fired.
Look at this right before the holiday week.
Speaker 6 (32:38):
No get they were like, I didn't know how anybody
could be wider than Buck was.
Speaker 3 (32:42):
We're going to have to adjust the color filters. Here. Now,
I don't want to.
Speaker 6 (32:46):
I might end up looking like Kramer on Seinfeld back
in the day when he got in the tanning bed
for too long. I don't know what the final shots
are going to look like, but there was an acknowledgment
that you were super white and they were going to
have to adjust the color filters when I came in
for the photos.
Speaker 3 (33:00):
That's not nice, all right.
Speaker 2 (33:02):
Limit your choices is the second one here. This is
I think actually this is a bigger lesson for life. Uh,
limit your choices when planning a trip. It's critical to
compare hotels, tours, restaurants. Make the best possible choices. He says,
not so fast. Don't look at all the options. Look
at the options and find a good option. I'm gonna
tell you, Yeah, people that did. People that get their
(33:24):
light out at the restaurant on the menu and they're
looking at a legal contract. Stop being lame. You know,
basic boots on the menu. Look, go with what your
eye gets drawn to. You don't read it like you're
reading a legal document. You figure out you do a
little bit of artistry here, you go a little bit
of this, little bit of that, and you just go with.
Speaker 3 (33:44):
Something you're gonna like. You don't have to read every
side and know everything.
Speaker 2 (33:50):
And when it comes to hotels, you find a place, Oh,
I'm gonna like that place you don't have to get
into the most you know, obscure review websites. To make
make sure that you compare who gives you, you know,
better amenities or something for the thirty dollars amenities fee.
Speaker 6 (34:06):
I agree with this, this bit of advice, because there's
nothing worse than going out to dinner with someone who
thinks that what they order for the dinner is going
to define their life's success for the next ten years.
And they sit there and they are terrified about it.
Maybe I'm unique. There's like eight things on every menu
that I would be fine with eating. I don't assume
(34:27):
that there's a massive drop off between choice and one
and choice two.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
Right, And this is he calls it choice overload. And
when you're I believe you're on vacation, he says you
want to be what he calls a satisficer, a person
who finds the first acceptable, acceptable option.
Speaker 3 (34:43):
And accepts it. The as set of a maximizer who's
trying to find the.
Speaker 2 (34:46):
Absolute best, the absolute best, the absolute best is an illusion.
Speaker 3 (34:51):
You gotta find good enough.
Speaker 2 (34:53):
And I tell my wife this all the time, because
she'll be like, I got a great I'm just she
can hear me right now. She's gonna yell at me,
but she'll be like, I got a great deal of
cost And then she'd be like, oh my gosh. Two
weeks later she'd be like, I could have gotten a
better deal at Costco.
Speaker 3 (35:05):
I'm like, no, no, you got a good deal. It's
a good deal is good enough. We don't have to
like go on a time machine or something to get
a better deal. A good deal is a good deal.
Thank you for listening. This is the best of with
Clay Travis and Buck Sexton.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Welcome back into Clay and Buck here in studio with
us today. Nellie Bowles, I'm gonna talk to us about
her new book, Morning After the Revolution, Dispatches from the
Wrong Side of History. She's here in studio with me, Clay.
She is formerly a New York Times correspondent, so she
(00:26):
is a refugee from the communist camp and we have
much to discuss with her, and her book is actually about.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
This to some degree. So let's start with it.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Oh and we want to talk about the Free Press
as well, which is the media company that you and.
Speaker 4 (00:40):
Barry Clay Weiss.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Yes, Barry Wise has founded with her, and they're both
you guys are married and also founded this company together.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
It's doing very very well.
Speaker 4 (00:51):
Nellie.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Let's start with Morning After the Revolution.
Speaker 4 (00:54):
So I did read the first two chapters and it was.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Fun because I got I got to sit there and
see so the New York Times is as insane from
the inside as me, an outsider who grew up in
New York City thinks it is.
Speaker 5 (01:09):
Well, first of all, let me just say it's a
pleasure to be here.
Speaker 4 (01:12):
Very nice to see you.
Speaker 5 (01:12):
And I don't think there are enough American flags around
me in this studio.
Speaker 4 (01:17):
Many American flags.
Speaker 5 (01:18):
There need to be more. There's some mall space that
doesn't have an American flag on it. Yeah. So I wrote
the book as really an insider in prestige media. I
think that what was going on at the New York Times,
which anyone from the outside can obviously see what's happening inside,
more or less, I think what was going on there
was also going on within NPR, within half a dozen
(01:42):
of the prestige media brands. And it's basically a movement
to say, don't report on anything that isn't beneficial, specifically
to the Democratic Party and to our sort of politics
of the day. And that's just a really boring way
to be a writer. That's not a way. It's not fun.
(02:03):
You can't be curious. And you're seeing now. I don't
know if you saw last week the editor in chief
of the New York Times came out and said in
a major earth chattering statement, the New York Times is
not in the business of helping promote Joe Biden, and
we need to stop that sort of.
Speaker 4 (02:23):
Advotation, advocacy Journal, and the fact that he needed to.
Speaker 5 (02:26):
Say it is unbelievable. But it's amazing that he needed
to make the statement. It was, of course controversial that
he made it. But yeah, So it's a book about
the last few years, which I think we all can
see everyone went a little crazy and now is starting
to come to their senses a way.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
It's like she takes a little surveillance camera and we
get to know what it's like inside the writing of
the Daily Communist Manifesto over in Times Square.
Speaker 6 (02:51):
So well, look, I'm a long time New York Times subscriber.
I subscribe to the Washington Post, I subscribe to the
Wall Street Journal. I read everything, as you have to
do when you're doing a show like this, to try
to familiarize yourself with all arguments. So I have a
couple of questions, and I'm curious if you address them
in the book, And thanks for coming in studio with
us in New York where Buck is right now. So one,
(03:13):
is Trump in your mind a cause of this or
is he merely a symptom and he's not really the cause?
I'm curious how you would assess that.
Speaker 3 (03:23):
That's second part of this, Yeah.
Speaker 6 (03:25):
Second part of this because I don't know the answer,
and I think it's a great debate. Second part of this,
how much of it do you think is subscription based?
In other words, instead of having an advertiser business, which
is you want as many people as possible to read
the paper, now you're basically selling to the diehards, which
is a different business model. Those are two questions. I
(03:46):
don't know what your answer would be, but I'm curious
how you would assess them.
Speaker 5 (03:49):
Those are both great questions I try to wrestle with
in the book. I think if you look at how
The New York Times is doing as a business, it's
doing great. Yeah, And that's because, as like you said,
as it pivoted from being an advertiser business, where Macy's
and Clorox just want maximum eyes, they don't necessarily and
(04:10):
they actually really don't want it to just be limited
to this political group or that political group. So you're
incentivized to serve a broader audience. But as it pivots
to a subscription business, the logical thing to do is
to serve those subscribers. And what those subscribers want is
red meat. They want to be told every single day
(04:30):
the same bad things about Trump, things that it's not
like it's lies necessarily other than like lies of omission.
Sometimes there's lies. But they want to be given the
red meat of anti Trump content every day. And they
want the paper to be their sword in the world,
to be there, to be their soldier out there fighting
(04:51):
for them. And that's what they're paying for the subscription,
and the Times courted that with the advertising model and
with with their with not the advertising model, with the
advertising campaigns around framing themselves as the subscriber's sword in
the world. Now, ez for did Trump and his rise?
Speaker 4 (05:10):
Did he break them?
Speaker 3 (05:11):
This is we talked about cause emotionally symptom.
Speaker 4 (05:15):
Did he emotionally break them? Or is it just the
last straw.
Speaker 5 (05:18):
I'm going to go on the side of yeah, I
think Trump emotionally broke them a little bit. I think
his wildness and his lack of like traditional decorum made
it so the Democrats became a little wild and lost
their sense of traditional decorum. Because if you think about
all the old values of the old journalists and things,
(05:40):
it's it's a lot of it is like a manners
and decorum and sort of like this is how we
like to act and this is what we like to
you know, the idea of objectivity is an aspiration. And
when someone like Trump comes in and is a uniquely
polarizing or whatever you want to call it, he's wild,
(06:00):
he's nuts, he's saying crazy, just talking to it.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
We're just talking to him last night.
Speaker 5 (06:05):
And so so yeah, and so then you've got the
Times definitely reacting, you have the whole liberal intelligentsia definitely reacting.
I don't think that's an excuse, though. I don't think
you can say, oh, I just got a note saying
no cursing.
Speaker 4 (06:23):
No, it's okay, it's just we're on broadcast radio.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
I wish, I wish we could just let you let
it fly.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
But unfortunately there are there are limitations. There are limitations. Look,
we were talking, we were talking to Trump last night.
He's he's a he's Trump, and you can't even really
begin to describe it. I think at this point it's
fair to say he's the most famous person on the planet.
He's the most polarizing person in the United States of
any real magnitude politically, and so the question as to
(06:47):
whether or not he broke them up.
Speaker 4 (06:49):
I could say this, I grew up here in.
Speaker 3 (06:50):
New York City.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
My family were New York Times subscribers growing up. Most
of the people that grew that were around me, I think,
have grown up to be by voting Obama, voting Democrats,
et cetera. And it's very clear though that even they
recognize what you said about the creation of the New
York Times or the perception of the New York Times
as the sword in the world for the left. Trump
(07:13):
there was like an explicit shift right of now the
truth is anti Trump, therefore anti Trump is the truth.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
And that changed.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
And I think that we saw that the Washington Posts
saw that The New York Times.
Speaker 5 (07:24):
We saw that NPR came out proudly and said we're
not covering the Hunter Biden.
Speaker 4 (07:28):
Right because that would help the enemy.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
Effectively, we're proudly we're speaking to Nelly Balls or book
by the Way, Morning after the Revolution, Dispatches from the
Wrong Side of History, and I just say, our producer
Ali Clay read the entire thing. We get books, We
get books and top books, the top books. We get
like books for people I've never heard of before, books
and foreign languages, like we got books everywhere here. For
(07:50):
one of our producers to go and read it cover
to cover and then make sure that Nelly comes on
I think says something about what's in it. I just
want to pose this one to you, Nelly, for me. Actually,
it felt like the Tom Cotton op ed was. I
know a lot of people felt this way a turning point.
A sitting senator making an argument on the editorial page
(08:10):
is unacceptable to the rest of the tribe, so to speak.
Inside the Times, how did that play out?
Speaker 5 (08:16):
I think, I mean at this point we've all read
a lot about how that played out, and how it
played out was basically internally within the Times, every good
reporter had to get together and tweet the same tweet.
We were all supposed to tweet that this op ed
puts our black colleagues in danger, that a sitting senator
saying to call in cops, to call in the National
(08:37):
Guard to quell some of the riots puts our colleagues
somehow in danger. And if you didn't post that message,
you were on the wrong side, and you would start
people would notice, they reach out right, Yeah, And so
I was never canceled. I'm not here like with a
tiny violin complaining like our life is great. We now
(08:57):
have the Free Press like things are fabulous. At the
time when I was there as a staffer, when I
didn't post the tweet and try to cancel that the
young editor who was behind that op ed, or was
one of the editors behind it, that was kind of
my end of my time there. It was sort of
the line drawn in the sand by the movement, and
(09:18):
it said, you have to post something irrational, You have
to post something that we all kind of know is
a lie. The op ed doesn't put lives in danger,
but you have to do that, and if you don't,
then you're clearly not with us. So and that's not
coming from the top down. That's coming bottom up. And
I think a lot of what we're seeing in these
companies and in universities too right now with what's going
(09:42):
on campus, it's it's bottom up, and then the leadership
crumbles to it. So obviously then the editor, the opinion
section editor at the Times, after that piece Ran had
to resign. Was basically fucking a forced resignation.
Speaker 6 (09:57):
Also, the last question for you, I encourage you have
everybody to go check it out and also check out
the Free Press.
Speaker 5 (10:02):
Let me tell you to check out the Free Press.
Speaker 6 (10:05):
Having read this book, I did a little bit of
player managing myself when I ran out Kick, and then
I sold it to Fox. I'm curious for you to
analyze what you think the future is of news and journalism.
I'm sure you thought about it a lot as you
wrote the book. You're having a lot of success at
the Free Press, which is a subscriber based platform. You're
a player manager, I would imagine, in some ways, along
(10:27):
with your wife and trying to manage this new era
of journalism and news. Are you optimistic that we come
through the Trump era, however it ends, and news is
in a better place. Or do you think we fragmented
and blown up to such an extent that everybody just
goes and finds their shard of reality and there is
(10:47):
no sort of cohesive news industry anymore.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
Where are we going?
Speaker 5 (10:51):
I think the new world of media upstarts is obviously
so exciting guys like Real Player who are coming up
to push against the legacy press and to have the
old values but in slightly new formats. What are we
at the Free Press. We're a newsletter that's now a website,
we have a podcast. We're not doing anything revolutionary in
(11:13):
terms of form. What's revolutionary is we're doing old fashioned
journalism with the skill sets and the values of the
old world, but the freedom and curiosity of the new
And I'm really optimistic about us, obviously, but others too.
I'm optimistic about a bunch of new media up starts.
And then what in my dream world happens is then
(11:36):
all of these upstarts start to pressure the legacy media
to be more honest, to get better, to improve itself,
and so hopefully the free press ends up making the
New York Times a better place and making NPR a
better place. Hopefully it makes a better ecosystem, a more
honest one. I think no one wants to be lied to,
and no one wants even your political adversaries, no one
(11:57):
wants them fed laws.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
About the future as well. This is great. I'm going
to read the book.
Speaker 6 (12:03):
To bucks point Ally's point, we get a lot of books.
I'm very fascinated to read yours. Keep up the good work.
Congrats on the book coming out, and hopefully we'll talk
to you again soon.
Speaker 5 (12:11):
Thank you so much for having me on your producers.
A very smart woman.
Speaker 3 (12:14):
We agree it.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
You're listening to the best of Clay Travis and Bucks. Second,
I'm pretty into coffee. I'm pretty in the coffee. I'm
not I'm not going to say that. Like I mean,
I've been drinking coffee every day. I'm pretty sure I
started in high school.
Speaker 6 (12:27):
Oh really all the way back. See, I've started here
the last few years because I love it.
Speaker 3 (12:33):
Now.
Speaker 6 (12:34):
This is one where I listen to my wife. Listen
to your wives out there. I drink a lot of soda.
I love Mountain dew. I still do, but I was like,
I'm getting you know, I'm forty five now, I don't
know that I gain a lot by drinking soda, and
so this is way healthier. I drink black coffee usually
throw ice in it. You can watch me live drinking
(12:57):
it throughout the course of this show.
Speaker 3 (12:59):
I kind of love it. I like going to coffee
shops now.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
I feel like a little bit like of au indoor
scarf when you go to the coffee shop.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
Very important to go star.
Speaker 6 (13:09):
I have to have some some measure of sanity.
Speaker 3 (13:13):
But I love it. I even get this, maybe a downer.
Speaker 6 (13:17):
I even now will get espresso martinis when I go
into a uh into a bar. Sometimes this guy's talking
the guy who loves espresso martinis and the British Royal
family is talking. Man, I understand. I understand if a
lot of you can't trust me anymore. I usually my
standard I like beer, obviously, uh, but usually my standard
(13:40):
liquor drink is an old fashion, big fan of old fashions,
like Buffalo Trace and all of their lineage of whiskeys, bourbons,
all that stuff. But I love a smoked old fashion.
Now I'm really kind of getting into the espresso martini.
I don't know what percentage of men by espresso martinis
(14:00):
versus women.
Speaker 3 (14:01):
It's a good question. It's not a lot you think.
So here's the deal.
Speaker 6 (14:06):
I've been noticing a lot more men drinking espresso martinis
because of the coffee. You want a little bit of
a liquor, but you want some caffeine and you don't
want to go Red Bull, right, red Bull vodka.
Speaker 3 (14:17):
Remember when Red Bull vodkas were really popular.
Speaker 6 (14:20):
I don't know if anybody orders Red Bull vodka anymore,
but it used to be the drink when you're like
kind of need a little bit of a pick me up.
The espresso martini actual coffee in it, it's really good,
but so crocket coffee.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
Yes, Crocketcffee dot comm it's why you need that delicious,
wonderful Crockett coffee. And yeah, I I want. Do we
have a few, call, I've lost them. If we had them,
I had them up a second ago.
Speaker 6 (14:46):
No, I'm getting lit up already by the espresso Martini.
It would help if the glass was more masculine. I
think the espresso Martini would sell ten times as much
to men if they just put it in a whiskey
glass as opposed to the Martine glass. What's the point
you were talking earlier about the wineglass? What is the
point someone tell me of a Martini glass other than
(15:08):
the way it looks.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
Well, one thing is they can they can actually pour
a lot less liquor into it. It looks like it
holds more volume than it does because of the shape.
It's a bit of an optical illusion. You have far
less booze in a Martini glass than you realize.
Speaker 6 (15:25):
That probably is true, But I mean, like, what would
is there is there a taste component that would make
it not work in a whiskey glass. No, definitely, So
maybe that's what I need to do. I need to
just order it in a whiskey glass as opposed to
a martine.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
One who's telling me that your wife gets hates when
they do the three dollars charge for ice at the bar?
Or is that somebody else telling me this? Or at
a restaurant some places?
Speaker 3 (15:48):
Trying to know this occurred?
Speaker 2 (15:50):
Oh yes, Oh, I thought it was you, but must
have been one of my Miami people. Have you guys
ever heard of this? They will actually charge you extra
if you get a drink on the rocks?
Speaker 3 (16:00):
What the ice?
Speaker 2 (16:01):
I had never heard of this either, but I have
asked around a little bit, and apparently this is a
thing in some places. They charge you more for the ice.
Speaker 3 (16:11):
Oh, that's just charge more for the drink, Like that's
how I always feel. Oh that I.
Speaker 6 (16:18):
Mean, first of all, the ice has become fancier. I
get it, maybe a little bit, Like you know, the
block of ice is very cool. A lot of times
now the ice will have a logo in it or whatever.
I love I'm saying earlier the smoked old fashion that
they literally will light it. It feels like you're drinking basically
a campfire, which, believe it or not, is pretty incredible.
Like you're sitting around having smores around the campfire. I
(16:40):
love the smoked old fashioned flavor and taste, but charging
for ice is frankly beyond the pail.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
Well so that they claim now that it's actually because
if you get it on the rocks there's additional booze,
So that I think is a little bit more because yeah,
someone told me they got up charge for getting something
on the rocks. It was an extra three dollars charge.
But I guess that's because there's more liquor involved in it.
Speaker 3 (17:02):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
I don't drink very much, so I don't know these things.
I do drink a lot of coffee, however, so that's
the important thing. Okay, In case you're wondering, what do
I drink? Crockett Coffee dot com? How many that is
what I drink?
Speaker 3 (17:12):
Crocket Coffee dot Com.
Speaker 6 (17:13):
How many places do you think analyze Michigan school shooting,
Morgan Wallen throwing a chair off the roof talk to
a sitting senator in the space of three hours.
Speaker 3 (17:24):
I think the range of this show has to exceed
the range of almost any show in America on a
day to day basis. That's fair.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
I mean, we're utility players here, you know what. I mean,
you put us in any position and we'll deliver for
the coach and for the audience.
Speaker 6 (17:37):
Do not throw chairs off the roofs of balconies, but
if you do, make sure that it's over a love dispute.
Speaker 3 (17:44):
If you're a country music singer.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
You're listening to the best of Clay Travis and Buck Sexton.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
Welcome back in to Clay and Buck. We are joined
now by our friend Riley Gaines. She's got a new
book out, Swimming Against the Current, fighting for common sense
in the world that has lost its mind. It comes
out today, Swimming Against the Current, because she's a great swimmer,
so that all makes sense. And she's also at OutKick,
which Clay founded. And Riley, thanks for being here with us.
(18:15):
So how how do you think it's going? As people
see you are speaking of college campuses across the country
we've had you want to talk about how some of
that has gone. The left gets very upset when you
say men or men, women are women. These aren't the
same thing. But I'm sure you saw this this male
track star that was just absolutely annihilating his female competition
because he says he's a woman. Now, where where does
(18:37):
the fact, where does the fight stand. Where does the
battle stand?
Speaker 3 (18:40):
Right now?
Speaker 7 (18:40):
Well, Buck, let me clarify one thing really quick. In
your intro you said I'm a great swimmer. I call
myself a swimmer. Nowadays I'd probably drown if I got
in the water.
Speaker 3 (18:50):
But look, I'm very buoyant. That's my that's my special
Hey for me too.
Speaker 7 (18:54):
Now, look, this issue, of course, it's it's becoming more
and more common.
Speaker 8 (19:02):
It keeps happening at every level.
Speaker 7 (19:03):
We see it at colleges, we see at high schools,
we see at middle schools, we see it at elementary schools.
This story you're referring to, actually I don't even know
which one, because there were multiple stories this past week
in Track and Field of boys annihilating girls. We saw
it in Washington, we saw it in Oregon. It's insane,
is what it is. But you ask me where the
issue stands. While we keep seeing these negative stories, I
(19:27):
really and truly do believe that the tide is turning.
I believe every day people are waking up. Speaking to
the story in Oregon we saw for really the first
time again it's the same story. A mediocre man becomes
a record smash on the women's side, he won the
state championship in the women's two hundred meter dash. He
(19:48):
stands atop the podium and the crowd booed. That would
not have happened two years ago. So I think it's
a telltale sign that people are waking up, people are
understanding that no one is immune to this. I think
so many of us thought before we've seen the trajectory
of this.
Speaker 6 (20:03):
Now, Riley, what is the Biden administration? First of all,
congrats on the book. Second, what is the Biden administration
trying to do with the way that they defined Title nine,
which could potentially enshrine men pretending to be women in
women's athletics all across the spectrum of competition.
Speaker 3 (20:22):
What are they doing?
Speaker 7 (20:23):
Yeah, it's not even what they're trying to do, Clay,
it's what they have done. The Biden administration has rewritten.
They rewrote Title nine. Of course, Title nine was the
federal civil rights law that once prevented sex based discrimination
on educational programs that receive federal funding colleges, YMCAs, things
like that, high schools, even But what they have done
they have taken this thirty seven word, only thirty seven
(20:46):
words in its original implementation in nineteen seventy two, with
one word being activity, which I think allowed Title nine
to be what it was most notable for in giving
equal opportunities in sports, of course a lot broader than that,
but what's most notable for. They took this thirty seven
word piece of legislation and rewrote it to a almost
(21:07):
half a million word proposal five and seventy seven pages long. Again,
from thirty seven words, that's insane, But really, what this
does is it equates, in a nutshell, it equates sex
to gender identity. So instead of sex based protections, now
there are protections enshrined by your gender identity. This now
(21:31):
means that men would have full access to bathrooms, locker rooms,
changing spaces this men's means that men can potentially be
housed in dorm rooms with women. This means that men
can now take academic and athletic scholarships away from women.
Speaker 8 (21:46):
Your speech would be compelled.
Speaker 7 (21:48):
So if you write a professor or a student, if
you use the biologically incorrect pronouns the preferred pronouns of,
if you don't use preferred renowns, then you would be
guilty in charge with sexual harassment under this new rewrite,
not the man creating around your locker room. No to
(22:08):
President Biden, he's said several times, those are some of
the most brave and inspiring people he's ever seen. But
you calling a spade a spade is grounds for sexual harassment.
Speaker 3 (22:20):
It's insane.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
But this is the country, unfortunately, that we are increasingly
forced to live in. And we're speaking to Riley Gaines.
She's got a new book out today, Swimming against the
current rally. If I am correct here, and I say
that thinking that I'm almost always correct, you have put
out their challenges to different people who want a debate
on this issue. Is there anyone who will publicly, anyone
(22:43):
of note who will publicly debate that men do not
have an advantage over women as competitors in athletics?
Speaker 3 (22:50):
Like, has anyone taken you up on this of note?
Speaker 2 (22:53):
Or does everyone just push for the policy and then
run away when you ask.
Speaker 3 (22:58):
For an open exchange of ideas on it.
Speaker 7 (23:01):
We've made public calls for debate on this show. I
know we've publicly called on Keith Olberman, that guy, we've
publicly called on Megan Rappino. I'll go even further. I
would love to talk with Billy Jean King. What a
more I guess, notable person to talk to on this topic,
given the fact that she's really who we have to
(23:23):
accredit Title nine too. She played in the Battle of
the Sexes and she won and it was this huge feat.
Speaker 5 (23:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 7 (23:29):
Well, now Billy jen King is actively fighting for male
inclusion into women's sports and women's spaces. No, I've reached
out to CNN, I've reached out to MSNBC, and I've
either gotten no response or they've responded back and said,
we're not going to give.
Speaker 8 (23:43):
You a platform to spread your hate. But you know
what that tells me.
Speaker 7 (23:47):
It tells me that they don't have a rebuttal for
anything that I'm saying.
Speaker 8 (23:51):
Right, what happened to follow the science? They are not.
They are certainly not doing that now, Riley.
Speaker 6 (23:57):
I encourage everybody to go check out your book and
to share it with their daughters and also their sons,
because I think people increasingly are coming around to how
crazy this is. But I know you saw this. We
shared it at OutKick. One of our writers got Don
Staley to say that a man identifying as a woman
should be able to compete in women's college basketball. In
(24:19):
her opinion, We then reach she's the national champion University
of South Carolina women's basketball coach.
Speaker 3 (24:25):
For people who don't know.
Speaker 6 (24:27):
OutKick then reached out to fifteen other women's NC DOUBLEA
tournament coaches, in particular, every women's coach that made the
sweet sixteen of the NCUBLEA Tournament. What does it say
that Don Staley said yes, men should be.
Speaker 3 (24:43):
Able to play.
Speaker 6 (24:44):
The other fifteen wouldn't even answer outkicks question. I do
think we're winning this battle, but how much cowardice is
there still out there?
Speaker 8 (24:52):
It's in every realm. That's why our nation.
Speaker 7 (24:56):
I believe our nation is in decline for several reasons,
one of which we live in a godless society. But two,
it's because we have weak week leaders. Again at every level.
We have Week leaders in academia, we have Week leaders
in corporate America. We have week leaders of course within
our government, even our spiritual leaders. So it seems are
unwilling to take a stand on these topics that they
(25:17):
have deemed controversial. But let's be very clear, it is
the least controversial thing to say that both sexes of
are deserving of equal opportunities. How in the world have
we reached a point in time where it's controversial to
say that women deserve privacy and areas of undressing. I
mean that would have been common since five years ago,
(25:42):
a DA would have followed a man who goes into
a woman's bathroom into a woman's locker room, into that
locker room and arrested him on charges of sexual harassment, voyeurism,
and decent exposure. The list goes on. But now, as
I said, it's deemed brave, we are told we are
the problem if we oppose this. So again the coward
is Yes, it's incredibly sad because I can guarantee you
(26:04):
I really can, even speaking for Don Staley. I shouldn't
say speaking for but I imagine she knows the differences
between men and women.
Speaker 8 (26:15):
No one would know who Don Staley.
Speaker 7 (26:16):
Was if she wasn't afforded the rights to play women's basketball.
And look, that's not to say she wasn't an incredible athlete.
She obviously had an incredible coaching career. I think her
record the last three years was one hundred and nine
and three. I mean that's unheard of. But she can
be two things at once, a great coach but also
a sellout and that's exactly what she's proven herself to be.
Speaker 3 (26:39):
Riley Gaines.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
Everybody the book swimming against the current, fighting for common
sense in the world that's lost its mind out today.
Speaker 3 (26:46):
Get your copy. Riley Gaines, thank you for doing what
you do.
Speaker 4 (26:50):
Appreciate it.
Speaker 8 (26:51):
I appreciate you, guys, so thank.
Speaker 3 (26:52):
You, thank you very much. I don't know if you heard.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
President Trump apparently appreciates this too.
Speaker 3 (26:57):
I'm just saying I saw that he gave a shout out.
Speaker 6 (26:59):
He was trying to impress Riley in Lexington, which not
a bad move by him, because she's pretty popular in Kentucky.
And let's be honest, Kentucky Wildcats don't have a lot
of athletic success of late to be celebrating, particularly in
the SEC they need Riley back.
Speaker 3 (27:13):
I think she might be off the mic because that's
the only way I can take it.
Speaker 4 (27:15):
Hoe.
Speaker 7 (27:16):
No, no, no, I'm just waiting to make some common
about Rocky Top here, Clay.
Speaker 8 (27:21):
I'm biting my tongue, That's what I'm doing.
Speaker 3 (27:24):
Hey, you know what, maybe this is your year in
football for the first time in eighty.
Speaker 8 (27:28):
That is what Tennessee fans have said for so long.
Next year is our year. Next year is our year.
I'll be waiting, Clay.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
I don't know if you guys have ever been to
a dinner party where people started screaming at each other
in a foreign language, But that's kind.
Speaker 4 (27:40):
Of how I feel.
Speaker 5 (27:40):
Right.
Speaker 3 (27:41):
Welcome to the sec, Buck, This is what it's.
Speaker 7 (27:43):
Like November second, Neeland Stadium. Clay, We'll see you there.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
Balls all right, good good stuff. Gonna get Google Translate
going here.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
You're listening to the best of Clay Travis and Buck Sexton.
Speaker 6 (27:56):
Wall Street Journal had a piece about the best way
to vacation.
Speaker 3 (28:01):
I think if you and I have.
Speaker 6 (28:02):
Major, major beef that may come out here over the
best way to have vacations. But I want you to
share with the people the advice that the Wall Street
Journal gave, given the fact that it's now Memorial Day weekend, effectively.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
And hat tip to Jeff Gallac who wrote this piece
for the Journal in their travel section, how to have
a great vacation. What science tells us, So follow the science.
Fauci Is this fauci science or is this real science?
Speaker 6 (28:30):
No?
Speaker 3 (28:30):
I think no.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
These are all smart things, so this is real science,
not fauci science.
Speaker 3 (28:34):
I think, Okay, I hope.
Speaker 6 (28:36):
So when you're trying to make sure that everybody has
a fabulous Memorial Day weekend if you are traveling based
on the science according to the Wall Street Journal.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
All right, so there are a couple of core principles here.
I want to share with all of you. This might
be the most important thing you hear on radio all week.
All right, because this will affect your life. First thing
for having a great vacation. And I think this is
where Clay and I are in a rock eam sock
em Donnybrook, if you will this guy there, Yeah, thank you, sir.
Speaker 4 (29:02):
Gaalac says, do less.
Speaker 3 (29:04):
And here's what he writes.
Speaker 2 (29:04):
If you love the beach, you should get in as
many beach days as possible. If you love an art museum,
go see every painting. Sounds logical, but only if you
want to have a not so enjoyable vacation. One of
the primary reasons vacations fall flat is because of an
inalienable truth about hedonic consumption. Enjoyment declines with time. So
basically he's saying, don't overdo any one thing.
Speaker 3 (29:28):
And what I said to Clay is I get to
the beach. And maybe it's because.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
I'm pale and Anglo Irish in origin and can't tan
and you know whatever. You could throw all these calumnies
at me, But I go to the beach. After two hours,
I'm like, I need to get inside of air conditioning
and read a book. Right, Like, you don't need to
You don't need to have six Margerita's day one, have one.
You don't need to go to every museum in the place.
(29:54):
Only go to the ones with cool war stuff. What
do you You seem to think that you can go
all in and there's no problem.
Speaker 6 (30:00):
Well, so my thing is it depends on the type
of vacation that you are scheduled to have. So when
I went to Italy last year, which i'd never been to,
I took my family. I want to see as much
of Italy as I can because I don't know if
I'll ever get to go again, for instance, But at
one point my youngest kid was like another church, which
(30:22):
was very funny because obviously we're going into all these old,
you know, esteemed historic churches all over Italy, and I
enjoyed them all. But I understand the point of if
you were a first grader or a second grader, you're
like dad. Another old church, another old cathedral. I get it,
(30:44):
so I understand that.
Speaker 3 (30:45):
But I think.
Speaker 6 (30:46):
And then we went to Australia, two places that I've
wanted to go my whole life. I want to see
at all because I don't know that I'm ever going
to be back there. But if I go to a
beach and my kids are now old enough that I
don't have to say sit terrified about every time they
get close to the water, which every parent or grandparent
(31:06):
with a young child will understand. It's not fun necessarily
to be at the pool or to be at the
beach when you've got a young kid who doesn't swim
very well. You got to have your head on a swivel.
You can't have many marguerite as, you can't have many beers.
I want to just do nothing. So this weekend I
would be very happy where I'm going to the beach
(31:28):
if I don't have to go more than one mile
in either direction and there is virtually nothing accomplished at
all that's other than hanging out.
Speaker 2 (31:36):
You're agreeing with the science here, he says, do less.
The point here is just don't overdo anything that you're
doing not doing anything isn't a thing you can really
do too much of. I just meant too many hours
in the sun directly, but like he's talking about how
you shouldn't show up and schedule out in hourly increments
or something like that. Yeah, your vacation, so you're actually
(31:59):
we did so.
Speaker 6 (32:00):
He did that in Italy and Australia. I think it
matters what the vacation is. Like some vacations, the goal
is I just want to chill, I want to sleep,
I want to have a few drings.
Speaker 3 (32:09):
Clay is going against the science once again. I will
say this.
Speaker 6 (32:12):
You were talking about how easily you sunburned. I don't
know if you even heard this. And we had our
eighteen hour photo shoot last week. When you left, I
came in and they were like, oh, your skin is
actually tannible, unlike your radio show co host. We're going
to have to change the coloration on the shots that
we're taking because of how pale he was.
Speaker 2 (32:32):
I don't even think you heard this. Shots fired, shots fired.
Look at this right before the holiday week.
Speaker 6 (32:38):
No get they were like, I didn't know how anybody
could be wider than Buck was.
Speaker 3 (32:42):
We're going to have to adjust the color filters. Here. Now,
I don't want to.
Speaker 6 (32:46):
I might end up looking like Kramer on Seinfeld back
in the day when he got in the tanning bed
for too long. I don't know what the final shots
are going to look like, but there was an acknowledgment
that you were super white and they were going to
have to adjust the color filters when I came in
for the photos.
Speaker 3 (33:00):
That's not nice, all right.
Speaker 2 (33:02):
Limit your choices is the second one here. This is
I think actually this is a bigger lesson for life. Uh,
limit your choices when planning a trip. It's critical to
compare hotels, tours, restaurants. Make the best possible choices. He says,
not so fast. Don't look at all the options. Look
at the options and find a good option. I'm gonna
tell you, Yeah, people that did. People that get their
(33:24):
light out at the restaurant on the menu and they're
looking at a legal contract. Stop being lame. You know,
basic boots on the menu. Look, go with what your
eye gets drawn to. You don't read it like you're
reading a legal document. You figure out you do a
little bit of artistry here, you go a little bit
of this, little bit of that, and you just go with.
Speaker 3 (33:44):
Something you're gonna like. You don't have to read every
side and know everything.
Speaker 2 (33:50):
And when it comes to hotels, you find a place, Oh,
I'm gonna like that place you don't have to get
into the most you know, obscure review websites. To make
make sure that you compare who gives you, you know,
better amenities or something for the thirty dollars amenities fee.
Speaker 6 (34:06):
I agree with this, this bit of advice, because there's
nothing worse than going out to dinner with someone who
thinks that what they order for the dinner is going
to define their life's success for the next ten years.
And they sit there and they are terrified about it.
Maybe I'm unique. There's like eight things on every menu
that I would be fine with eating. I don't assume
(34:27):
that there's a massive drop off between choice and one
and choice two.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
Right, And this is he calls it choice overload. And
when you're I believe you're on vacation, he says you
want to be what he calls a satisficer, a person
who finds the first acceptable, acceptable option.
Speaker 3 (34:43):
And accepts it. The as set of a maximizer who's
trying to find the.
Speaker 2 (34:46):
Absolute best, the absolute best, the absolute best is an illusion.
Speaker 3 (34:51):
You gotta find good enough.
Speaker 2 (34:53):
And I tell my wife this all the time, because
she'll be like, I got a great I'm just she
can hear me right now. She's gonna yell at me,
but she'll be like, I got a great deal of
cost And then she'd be like, oh my gosh. Two
weeks later she'd be like, I could have gotten a
better deal at Costco.
Speaker 3 (35:05):
I'm like, no, no, you got a good deal. It's
a good deal is good enough. We don't have to
like go on a time machine or something to get
a better deal. A good deal is a good deal.
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