September 12, 2022 • 74 mins
Trina McGee, aka the beloved Angela Moore, joins the gang for the highly requested reunion of unpacking that Pod Meets World is known for.
These 4 friends have been through a lot and are living proof that open communication is key.
Order up a couple of Double Chubbies with cheese because this episode is ready to heal.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
I'm going to apologize everybody right after that. By the way,
if I'm a little out of it because I am
Dave four of fast, really tell me more about this fast.
I want to know Sue and I are doing it
together and it is just wedding fast. Yeah, but it's
not even It's like, first of all, we look forward
(00:38):
to the olives like, I know, when you only get
them two of the games shining on your face, yes,
like you get it to like we'll look to each
other six hours before and be like, we get olives,
it's almost time for allis it is the other thing
that they don't tell you about, is it makes you
so gassy that the two of us look at each
other like, thank god, we're we we we said for
(01:00):
better or for worse, because this is the worst part.
This is the part that everyone's talking. Come down to
it and year olds talking about gas. It's true, bad
diet fasting, you're gassing is what we're doing right now.
It is so I'm day four, if I if i'm
if I'm out of it a little bit, that's why,
oh my gosh, yikes, I get olives today. It's an
(01:23):
all of day congratulations. If you're going to get that
one all of like halfway through our show and suddenly
start perking up. They're talking more. Dude, Seriously. I was
eating my bar this morning and walked in and she went,
what are you doing? Slow down, Savorite, that's all your
small bites, that's all you get into like noon. I
was like, I know, I know, it's horrible. Oh my gosh.
Really I thought i'd start the day is by telling
(01:45):
you about my my fast Um, good to sea bold
of you. Is there something we we would rather talk
about for happening up the show? Is there any other
pre chatter we would like to I found a anything,
anything would be better. I have a lump in my armpit? Exactly?
(02:06):
Is that weird? Is that bizarre? Does anybody else smell purple?
Is that? Is that weird? We're all really excited about
our guest today. Um Angela Moore was Shawn's long term
girlfriend and to Panca's best friend. She is an absolute
massive fan favorite, and we know her as Trina McGhee.
She was in fifty nine episodes of Boy Meets World.
(02:29):
She first appeared in season five, episode two, Boy Meets
the Real World or actually I think it's Just Boy
meets Real World and uh, she is absolutely our most
requested guest by fans. We have been getting your emails.
We are so excited to have her here. Uh. We
didn't want to wait until season five when she makes
her first appearance on the show. We wanted to bring
(02:49):
her in now. So please join me in welcoming Miss
Trina McGhee. At some point, I'm going to comb my
arab before you. At some point, Thank you, Trina. At
some point. For four days, I haven't eaten for four days.
I've had soup, powdered soup. You're talking to the perfect
(03:12):
person about fast t Yes, you're talking the perfect person
for I'm on a fast Are you hearing the voices yet? Yes?
And seeing seeing the weird things flying around, like we'll
just we'll be sitting there and all of a sudden,
we'll just go like something just fluid. It's just very strange.
Are you serious? You're like hallucinating? I try it feels
(03:35):
like that, like the third day, a little like you
could you could bring your mind there. I have an
alternative eat food, just too much of it. My cells
need rejuvenating. Writer, we didn't all go to a hippie
school where we learned everything about eat, drink and be merry. Like, yeah,
I know, it still looks like he's thirteen. It kills me.
(03:58):
I know, wait, Traina, I actually this is a good
chance now that we're talking about this writer, can we
can we go back to what we learned yesterday, Trina.
We learned yesterday that writer went to a high school where.
You know, first of all, we knew this that his
graduating class in high school was twelve twelve students at
at his high school in his graduating class. But what
we learned yesterday was that he walked a mile to
(04:20):
school every day and whoever was the first person to
arrive at the school had to start the fire to
warm the shed that they learned in it like you
do in high school. And there was it was a
series of buildings, but the main building, which was you know,
like an old house, like this whole feat up house
that had been converted to just like rooms where students
(04:43):
could gather, had a wood burning stove and if you
got there before anybody else, you had to start the
fire to warm the place up. Ye I was gonna say,
because you do realize that when they described cult compounds.
They always start with it's a series of buildings. Yes,
it was, but look all schools are like that, right,
Like Actually, this explains a lot between how maybe me
(05:08):
and writer clicked so well because I went to a
similar hippie type school where they used to take us
up to um from this city to this farm for
a week, three times out of the year, and you
had to get up and do chores and stuff like
that when it was only twenty people in our every class.
This was from from fourth grade to eighth grade. I
(05:29):
went to people in my class it was called Manhattan
Country School. Wow, that's what my older brother did. Something similar.
My family went to something called the Mountain School where
for like half of semeter in high school they went
to Vermont and like lived on a farm. But that's
different the good that was an experience. They took you
from a regular school to that experience. That wasn't It
(05:50):
wasn't like all writers here first, he's got to turn
about her. It wasn't. I mean when we left our
school for because we would do trips. We we went backpacking.
It was literally what you could carry on your back
into the wilderness. Good luck. Yeah, And then there were
some vital trips, maybe a trip for things went wrong.
We had bear encounters, we had trips where like it
(06:11):
rained on us for four days stree like nine and
I was like eleven, Yeah, but it was the best experience,
Like I mean I look back on I mean, like now,
because you know, I just took Indie to Alaska and man,
the kid just cries and complains it. I mean, we're
trying to do like normal day height and he's just
and I'm like, oh my god, I'm want to send
you away. Yes, I want to send you away to summer.
(06:31):
Like I was not a big believer in summer camp
because I never went to summer camp. I just like
went camping with my family. And so but now I'm like,
I want to send him to summer camp because he
needs like another adult to tell him, like, fuck up, kid,
because like Alex and I can only say it so
many times before we're just like mean parents. You know,
summer camp is great. Summer camp is the best. I
had Summer camp every single year up to becoming a counselor, Like,
(06:53):
summer camp is the best. Okay, So we've learned already
that maybe part of the reason you and writer had
such chemistry is because you guys both went to hippie
high school. But that is jumping ahead because I can't
wait to talk about your chemistry. But one of the
things we love to ask everybody who comes on the
show is tell us about your origin story before we
(07:14):
all got to know you as Trina McGee and and
as Angela Moore. Tell us a little bit about the
early stages of your career. How did you get into acting? Uh? Well,
I my road was very self driven. It was honestly
something I just knew I was gonna do. I woke
up one morning and I was like, I'm going to
(07:35):
be an actress now. The time before that, I had
already been two years at Howard University, and I was
gonna be I was a political science major at Howard University,
but I really wasn't. I went to a very funny
time of going to Howard University because at the time, um,
it was a very popular thing to go to a
(07:55):
black college university. And I went there because I had
predominantly had and upbringing with all white schools. So as
the Angela character you see me as in an all
white situation was how I grew up I went to
a predominantly all the hippie elementary school than a very
stark um high end, um predominantly Jewish um high school
(08:18):
called Horace Man in New York in Riverdale. I was
very competitive, you know, and I got there through you know,
scholarships or whatever. And so then when I went to college,
I wanted to go to an all black college. So
who was in my freshman year in the hall back College?
But P Diddy, um kid and play used to come
down and play all the times. I'm my best friend.
Used to date P Diddy. I'd always used to drive
(08:39):
with him back and forth from from DC to New York.
Um just you know, was Heathen of de Malverne and
I lived in Yonkers, Um, so I got a cat
caught up more in the entertainment that was coming to
Howard rather than actually you know, going to school, and
you know, and I realized, you know, I'm not gonna
(09:00):
you know, and it already Actually it started before that
in high school that I actually started cutting classes to
go on auditions downtown. My first audition, um, when I
was sixteen, was for Bill Cosby and I had actually
they had a thing on the wall. It would open audition.
I went to the open audition. I got called back twice.
And this happened like three times. Now. I started cutting
(09:22):
school in high school to go downtown and do creative
stuff and and and I got in trouble, and my
chemistry teacher I got in trouble, especially in chemistry and math.
I just wasn't interested. And they told me, if you
cut school one more time, you're you're gonna be, you know,
in big trouble. You may not be able to come
back to hars Man, this really big thing that I
was going to. So they had an open call for
(09:45):
the The Cosby Show. So I begged my chemistry teacher.
I said, please, can you please just let me leave
to go on this audition and I can I not
get in trouble, do not report me to the to whoever.
And he just says, okay, today, not Bill. You will
never be a teennist. You're never gonna be at Kenny
and inaccurate. Yeah. So I go to these auditions and
(10:08):
three times for Bill Bill Cosby, I got to um
actually get taken to Brooklyn on the last time, and
and and and and we had I didn't get the part,
so they had sent you home on this van right
that when you didn't get the part for Bill Cosby
and Brooklyn. It goes from Brooklyn to back to Manhattan.
You don't want to be on the van. So I'm
on the van with this other girl, didn't. I think
(10:31):
in retrospect, you want to be on you want to
be exactly. I remember Felicia Rashan coming coming out and saying, girl,
do you know how many parts I didn't get? Because
I was crying, I was balling, and I didn't get
this part. But then yeah, So then I went to
(10:53):
college and I uh was always so many stars with
my freshman class. Big didn't he polloge I Park I
don't know if you knew who she was, but she
was a big actress on Fridays. And Wendy Wendy uh
Mickel Robinson who was on the Game now to Rogie
Henson was in the class right below us. And Debbie Allen,
who is a very big and um the arts community.
(11:15):
I don't know if you know, guys, be taught she
taught um drama there. But I'm not going to school
for dram. I'm going to school for political science. So
you know, long story short, I left after two years
and I just said, let me just come home. I
moved back with my grandmother and I just started auditioning.
But I thought I was gonna be a model then.
So I and I auditioned for this agency called Flick
(11:38):
Flick No Click. It was back then for Molly and
they said, no, well, you know, little you're a little short.
Maybe you might want to try acting. And they said, okay,
we'll send you out on a couple of auditions. See
what you get. We're not gonna sign you. And they
sent me on on. My first audition was for this
play called Chelsea Walls and it had Ed Sharon, Vincent
Dinofrio was in it. Um, Marissa tone A, Gina Gershawn. Okay,
(12:02):
nobody was anybody then, And I end up doing this
way at this small part and Ed Sharon, who directed it,
went on to direct Law and Order, um, all the
law and order stuff. So nobody was anybody. Jane Alexander
was like the matron of the whole thing. So um,
So then that happens, and then my second after right
after that, my next auditions for a show Quincy Jones
(12:23):
is doing. I mean literally, it's my first three auditions
I'm kind of just discovered, you know. And then Quincy
Jones had this audition open call, eight hundred girls across
the country. Then I make it down to like the
last eleven girls, and that's what brought me out to
l A from New York, that Quincy Jones, but not
to necessarily have the part to compete against four spots
(12:46):
and eleven girls. So these eleven girls are me, Regina King,
Lauren Hill, uh, this girl named Lisa to Cole Carson,
he was working all the time. Then wow, and then
finally I actually get this part, this Quincy Jones part,
and it's me. It's me and this girl Rose and Lisa,
and we're gonna be this this big thing like the Monkeys,
(13:06):
but it's gonna be a TV show, and long story short,
the whole thing just falls apart, you know. But I
left out here in l A with an agent and
I start beating the Really, now heone's taken me serious? Wait,
hold on, I have a question about this Quincy Jones show.
So it was like a music show. The four of
you were going to be a musical act TV show. Yes,
(13:28):
and you beat Lauren Hill. Yeah, yeah, musical show. I
remember that story because I remember because like the fujis
became huge, like while we were doing Boy and like
you know, I beat her for a job. Oh my god,
what a story. No funny enough before that, a year
before that, I had my first jobs were off Broadway
(13:50):
plays and I used to do hip hop musicals and yeah,
and I'd started about three of them off Broadway. And
Lauren Hill was the sixteen year olds was the fifteen
was the backup dancer for my show. Hearing you talk
about New York though, it brings you right back to
and if you didn't know that scene, the like the
New York audition scene where they would put you in
(14:12):
a van, well you you'd go and you'd everybody would
audition for Law and Order once a week, like it
was it's what you had. It would just say like
mix and match sessions too. It was always like show up,
this stay, show up and they yeah, because it really
New York was out of the theater tradition, which is
so crazy, and it's so like people show up and
at the end of the day there's ten left, and
then the next day there's thirty people and it's like
(14:34):
all this like you always have the job and then
you don't have the job. It's like it was crazy
up staircases, Like you walk up staircases at twelve or
thirteen years old, these tiny little staircases, and you turn
a corner into this tiny little hallway and there'll be
forty two kids your age for some Cheerios commercial. Black steps,
white walls, Yes, yes, the hot as hell and yes.
(15:01):
Or you're in one of those terrible elevators. You've got
to move your little gate to the side, and it
barely like it's clicking up the steps to go up
and see Leonardo DiCaprio, who's auditioning for an A T
and T commercial. It's like that kind of thing. It
was such a such a scene. I also didn't know.
I'm amazed because I love television. I'm a television addict.
I didn't know they shot Cosby in New York. They
(15:22):
thought that was out here Brooklyn, in Brooklyn, in the
same studios as my favorite soap opera at the time,
Another World. I thought that was an l a series. Okay,
that was more interesting. Okay, so you by the time
you end up getting too Boy Meets World, you had
already been on Sinbad, a different world. Martin picket fences,
(15:42):
family matters and parenthood, and right, I had it done Daylight,
and I had all the jobs I was gonna do. Okay,
boy was your retirement plan? Believe you? When you got
(16:10):
the audition for boy Meats World? Had you ever heard
of boy Meets World? Had you ever seen Boy Meats World?
What did you know about the show if anything? And
what did they tell you about the character you were
auditioning for? Good question? Okay, Okay, I didn't blow Boy
Meets World crept up on me. Like I was just
watching the season one thing, you know, watch long thing,
(16:33):
and at that time, you guys were in season one.
That was off the radar for me. I had just
I just maybe done a different world than that. That
that year, I was had debate on my first child.
I was, you know, newly married, and so Boyme's World
was very much off the radar until after I had
done a movie called Daylight. Okay, And it was eighteen
(16:57):
months between Daylight and my next job, and I had
left my children in St. Louis with their grandparents and
was coming periodically out here because I just wanted them
to be and you know, we had had some family situations.
I wanted them to be, you know, with more family
instead of this l a life. So and I was
coming back to audition, but I had been doing this
(17:17):
back and forth for eighteen months, not having much luck.
I was kind of getting discouraged. I had just done
a big movie, so I'm thinking everyone's just supposed to
receive me in Hollywood, you know, which may or may
not happen, you know. So, um, I'm at this Hope,
this like kind of not so great hotel on Wilshure right,
and I'm I just had this big audition with Lauren Batty,
(17:39):
okay for both for the halle Berry you know. So,
and I was just depressed. I kind of knew I
didn't get this and everything. So I turned on my TV.
It's Friday, and I was so disciplined back then. I
didn't go out and do nothing. I was just focused.
So it's Friday night, I'm in the sad hotel away
from my kids, and I turned the TV and it
comes in in fun Is is Boime Twirl? And I
(18:03):
kind of got this weird feeling about this show. I
actually started watching it, and this was maybe six months
before I actually got the audition. When I actually started
watching it every Friday because really there was no other
channel that the TV could get to because it was
such a bad fault. I only get Boimesworld. I know
(18:25):
this is no why so um after a while it
was prepping for the audience exactly. You know, the one
door is closed and you keeping on it and then
another door opens. It was that crappy hotel door. Yes,
and see, I know sitcom. I've always said all I
did was sitco every black sitcom for that I'd done,
(18:47):
and others to coom I just done. So so I
liked sitcom like the Beach, So that was and that
was the only show I could watch. The watch it
and then um, about six months later, I get this
call for Boy Meets Worlds. I thought that was kind
of surreal, and then they told me they didn't really
describe the part. They just said I love interest for Sean.
(19:08):
Um they had. But the thing is, I knew you
had to be funny, you know, But when they gave
me the first first side, there was nothing funny about
drama for a joke, you know? It was it was
the scene. It was the scene that what I read
with with Trina when they brought brought me into for
us to do a chemistry read. It was a scene
(19:30):
that we had already done on the show. It was
a scene with um Larissa Otlantic when she had been
my girlfriend for like two episodes. I threw a picnic
for her out in the snow, and you know, it
was a dramatic scene. It was like Sean making this
big romantic gesture and the conversation between the two of them.
And so we had done it the year before or
(19:51):
two years before or whatever, and they were using that
scene to audition Angela's because they picked the one dramatic
Shawn scene. I knew it was some back and like romantic.
Why there was as I remember it was, of course
there's That's how it was like. And then you had
(20:11):
to come back like that part. That part. Okay, So
I come in the first time. Now I come in
for Barbie Block. Now this is this is a funny story,
coming to read for Bobby Block first time? Okay. Um,
they go back to my agent and say that we
have no interest in her. She's not funny. So I'm like,
wait a minute, there's nothing on the page that was funny,
(20:31):
But what are they talking about? So I actually go
to my manager's office the next day and I said,
because I'm when I'm auditioning in l A. At this point,
it's it's like ten girls in every audition, so I
know who my competition is. So I go back to
my age of the next day and I'm like, there's
only ten girls in this talent auditioning around all right.
I know this is my part. This is how I
(20:51):
grew up. I know how it is to be an
all white situation, you know, and this is it, this
is me. I can't really call them back and get
me in again. So my manager kind of loosing, like oh, traina,
I mean, so I'm walking. All of a sudden, my
manager gets a phone call and she's puts me on
hold off. So I go ahead and I start talking
to the receptionist. Okay, who is this like feisty little
(21:15):
college kid, and she's so I can't couldn't stand her boss,
who was the one who just told me to wait
outside because she had to take a call. I can't
stand them. They never let me do anything. It's this
asistant talking. And I said, you know, yeah, they know
one was to take chances, and I said, I should
be back in that room. Okay, I'm telling you, I
think so too. So she, because she wants to make
some feisty move, calls back Barbie Block and pushes me
(21:38):
back into that us without my manager knowing. Okay. It
was like the conspiracy of two spunky little chicks. Okay.
So actually, for some reason, Barbie Black said you okay,
(21:59):
we'll see you here again, you know. And so I
go back and I didn't know what more to do
because it was the same thing. But for some reason,
when I got that got back Michael. Maybe it's seen
a tape, I think. So then I get a call
and that to come back again, you know. So I
come back again and there's and I come back and
(22:19):
there's like eight to ten girls. For some reason, to
see I always remember the seating of this situation because
it would be I always like to separate myself from
people in auditions, you know. So there's eight two girls
sitting on a bench in front of me, and I'm
on the other bunch. I'm just looking at these eight
to ten girls. Everybody goes in. I going last. Then
I get a call coming the next day, same thing,
(22:40):
fresh new eight to ten girls, and it's me standing
across from them. They go, and I going. Then it's
the last three days of this eight to ten girls,
New girls, and and and then that day Michael came
out into the waiting area and he looks at everybody,
and and then I'm in the bathroom and he goes,
come here, I want to talk to you, and and
(23:00):
and we go in the bathroom together, like and all
the girls could see him. Wanted to give me these
notes or whatever it was. I want you to be different,
like nobody else has ever been on this. You gotta
be different, okay. And then I had some lipstick on
and I started putting something. He goes, no, notes, so
take that lipstick off. That's not it. You just come
(23:21):
in different. So that was the direction. Different, look different,
do something different to yourself. So I start to put
these lipstick on it. No, no, it's not it. Take
the lipstick off. That's forbade him. So and he walks out.
(23:41):
He goes into him and I guess you were in
the room writer and everything, and I'm taking I'm like
so nervous. And then this time I go in before
all the girls go in, and I go in and
I read with you and these these is the time,
these walls that these auditions were thin thin. I don't
know what in l A and you can hear everything.
So I go in and I do the audition. I
(24:01):
don't know if I'm good or not. I didn't know.
I'm just doing me. And I come out and two
of the girls who were on the bench looked at
me and they said, the girl, we knows you, you know, yeah,
and then you know that that's how I And then
a couple of days later, I got a call that
I was going to be on the show. But see,
in my mind, I was always a series regular. I
(24:23):
was very arrogant back then, I have to say, I
was very actressy and you know, so I just assumed
that I was assumed a series of regular. It wasn't
n till like three months later being on the show
and Michael said, hey, Trainer, we really like your work
and we're gonna keep you. And I was like, yeah,
well yeah, I already know that that was the point. Yeah, exactly,
(24:44):
I love that. So that was you know, that's well,
that's my question. That's what I wonder. I was was
the Angela character? Was she supposed to be just reoccurring?
Originally or was she always planning on they were testing
it out. I think they wanted a regular arter, but
they weren't sure, so they wanted which is you know,
smart on their part, right. I mean it's not great
(25:05):
for for you, Trina, because you're not getting paid as
well or have any sort of future out. Yeah, so
they eat it out. Also, it's good creatively because you
can sort of feel out, you know, whether this character
is gonna work or not. But here's my question, Trina,
So we're all the other actress is black? Was that
like every single one, every shade from like light skins
(25:28):
and Caramel going down? Gabrielle Union was there? Essence Atkins
was one of the people. I don't remember too many
other of the girls, but I remember Gabrielle Union was
on like the second day bench. You know, so you're
the only person I ever read with. And at that point,
(25:48):
I mean they had already I had had a meeting
with the producers. Wait, so when those girls were going in,
they weren't reading with you know, I think I think
you might be combining time. No either, either they brought
me in and just to read with you and brought
me back out, or you're conflating two different meetings. By
the time I met you, it was sort of like,
this is what who we think is the girl? What
(26:10):
do you think? And I remember realizing it was the
scene that I had done with Larissa and thinking, well,
no one could do this better than Larissa, like this
is gonna suck, and then reading with you and after
you left being like, oh, yeah, that was incredible. This
is so and just being like absolutely, there's no doubt
in my mind that this will work like it was
so it was so obvious, like I don't know, I
felt it in the room, and I'm pretty sure you
(26:31):
did too. It was like, oh, this is this is
so easy. Trina, what was your first impression of Writer?
I thought a writer was really cute, and I liked
reading with him because I felt like our timing was
very mutually nice. It was just a nice chemistry. I
really liked acting with Writer, especially when I had to
do softer scenes, you know. But I thought it was cute,
(26:53):
you know, but I just thought it was a kid
really kind of telling you about so was age? Well,
hold on, hold on, Trina, Trina looks younger than any
of us, than all of us, but Trina is actually, well,
(27:17):
she's twelve years old. You're twelve years older than me. Yeah,
and so that makes you tend to eleven years older
than Writer. And so Writer was seventeen at the time,
right right, this was you came in and you were
twenty eight years ago. We did not find out for Trina,
(27:37):
did you share your age with anybody or was it?
If not, was it a conscious choice to not let
anyone know your age. I never think about my age
like that. I just feel like it is what it is.
I wasn't a conscious choice. Michael actually let her later
said he thought I was older than it was. Really,
but no, I think that was about eleven years older
(28:01):
than than Writer. And you know I didn't. I was
so I gotta say this is please forgive me people change.
I was so into myself, and I was so into
myself that, like, you know, I thought about okay things,
but I only thought about it in for chains of
you know, honestly, how I can get ahead? You know,
(28:23):
I can. I can jog your I can jog your
memory because I remember very specifically what happened and why
you didn't tell us your age, because you did not
choose to know. I do so I had done an
episode where I was making out with a guest star
m and she showed up at the tape night with
a baby, and we found out because we had assumed
(28:44):
all week that she was my age or whatever, and
she turned out to be twenty eight or something baby,
and we freaked out at the time, you know, because
I was seventeen and I was like, oh my god.
And so we told that story in front of you
when you were just a guest star or whatever, your
first and I remember then you kept your mouth. She
(29:05):
was never going to say a word. It was weeks
later and it was you, me and Will and we're rehearsing,
and I don't remember somebody said something about like a
year or whatever, and you nodded like knowingly, and Will
looked at you and called you out in front of me. Will,
you were like, how old are you training? How old
are you really? Just like I don't know, I don't
(29:27):
want to say. And then and she was like, He's like,
you're over twenty, aren't you. And she's like, yeah, I'm
twenty eight. He's like, how many kids you got? How
many kids you got? And You're like too, at the time,
you have two kids. And we were like, oh my god.
I was like, no, no, it's okay, and you're like,
it's not okay. I heard you talking about that other
actors and it freaked you out, and so that's why
you kept your mouth shut from me. And then I
was like, no, no, no, it's okay. It's totally fine,
(29:49):
even though I had no filter. I had no I
had no filter. Back in the hold, Tina, I wanted
it back to what you said where Trina, where you said,
oh please forgive me people change. I was so into myself, like,
first of all, we were all narcissists. It wasn't I mean, yes,
(30:14):
for sure, but also not just narcissist. Also, just like teenage,
the world revolves around me. Like I literally remember thinking
like all day every day, being like when do I
get to drive down Laurel Canyon for the first time?
You know, I was sixteen, I had just gotten my
driver's license, Like I was so excited to drive down
(30:34):
Laurel Canyon, and and whether or not I was gonna
go which dance I was going to. I that was
all I was thinking about. I wasn't thinking about anything else.
And for you, Trina, as I have gotten older, and
we have had so many conversations and all of this, this,
these conversations that we've had have been like therapy for us,
talking about our our histories and our past together. When
(30:55):
I think about that, for you, at twenty eight years old,
married with two children and pregnant at the time with
your third shewing my brain and insane, you, of course,
this was a career for you. This was it, sus
(31:19):
and had a very important job. It was a regular job.
It was every week coming back and like you said,
in your mind, you set your sights on I'm a regular.
They may not have told me yet, but I know
it's going to be true. I am manifesting that, and
you did. It came to fruition and then it lasted
for three years. So for you, this was I mean,
it was so much more than than it was for
(31:41):
me rolling into work crazy right, crazy, so annoying crazy.
I remember the first episode, very first episode I had,
and I just had one little line. It was just
kind of introducing me, and I said it was called
reality World and boil meat reality or something. When I'm
(32:04):
setting a couple of desk and I had one line
like a duck cory or something, but you guys were
so you guys were the typical teenagers, I mean, and
I think at that point that year that was kind
of the beginning of everybody as you guys teenagers, and
I saw going through this kind of I've got to
be me stage and everything, and you guys were really
(32:26):
close knit, and I think you were really my perception
was that you were really confused about me because I'm older,
but I'm not older, and I can't really fit in
your group. So my I guess my first perceptive of
you on that I kind of thought you guys were
snarsally makes I honestly thought you were really really privileged
(32:51):
kids that didn't know you were you know, that didn't
know and I, you know, I'm twenty eight. That's not
old like I'm supposed to know everything. I think the
phase I was going through is twenty eight was more like,
I think I know everything. I've really got it together.
I've got these kids in my career in Dada and
these kids, you know. It was more out of my attitude,
(33:13):
So anything you did to feed that would would um
kind of fuel that for me. But honestly, in the
back of my mind, I sometimes I would think it
wouldn't be really cool to just be their age and
be able to go Like I remember one time you
guys were going somewhere after work and all together, and
I was like, I can't go with them because I
have to like go, which is great, but you know,
(33:38):
but it was weird because it was like I really
did relate to you because you guys were very adult
like um kids, and I really did relate to on
a lot of levels. But then there was always a
line that was cross, like, oh, we're gonna go, can't
do something crazy with our friends. Writer had this new
car and he was dating downtown and everybody, and I'm like, okay,
I'm gonna go change diapers and yeah, and you. I mean,
(34:01):
that's that's the thing that was. But that's the thing
that was so strange is that you and I were
closer in age. We still weren't super cool. I mean,
we're closer in age, but we never worked together. We
didn't like we never were I think we were episodes.
I mean you had been there forever before you and
I were ever on screen together. So we always talk
about the two boy meets worlds where it's like I
didn't get a chance to get to know you on
(34:22):
a personal level kind of at all. And when I
go back, there's people like, now that we've started this podcast,
people will send us stuff like they're sending us old
T G. I F clips and stuff like that. And
there are certain clips they're sending where I just think
I am so cool, Like you can tell these things
where it's like I am the coolest guy in the world.
I don't want to listen to And I look back
(34:42):
at it now and you're just like, oh my god.
The arrogance of youth. It is just so horrifying. So
that couple with not knowing you at all. I mean,
we didn't become friends until you were there. For like,
we didn't dislike each other, we just didn't know each other.
So it was so weird to have the two boy
to worlds where we just were yeah, yeah, Well, I
(35:04):
think honestly, to a certain degree, I'm going to say this,
I think we all could have, but this doesn't really
work in this kind of work environment or what they do.
I think they were powers in play that be that
kind of made us all words are said dropped here
and there to make us all competitive with each other
so that we will give stronger performances. You know, certain
(35:28):
powers played us against one another and had been for years. Frankly,
so I think at times my relationship, which you did,
suffer because of that, and because I was really really
competitive at the time. I just I just wanted everything
all at once, and I went for it. You know.
But you'd also been we were we were the kind
of kids a lot of us had started working at
(35:49):
a very young age. We were lucky to be on
this show. You had been like the New York actress,
fighting and scrapping, and now you're out here away from
your kids for a while, fighting and scrapping to get
a job. So again, Daniel's right. We came at this
from I think your word is exactly right. Privilege just
a place of privilege, and then you throw on fame
and money when you're in your teenage years, and it
(36:11):
just takes it to a whole another levels. I think
it's probably a pretty accurate term for us. When I
thought you were taking it for granted, and I thought
that there were times like when you guys were really
needed space to play and stuff. I just came from
like it's such a serious place, like we've got to
get this job done in the work and I've I've
(36:32):
waited so long to get here, and you know, so
I just wasn't a total different headspace. And but what
I think what's more important for me over the years
is to be to realize that life is not fair
and not everybody had to do a scrape up from
the bottom to get up. Everybody's journey is different and
(36:52):
I and I have to respect. As much as I
want you to respect my journey, I have to respect
your journey, especially now that we're older, and you know,
it just is what it is. It doesn't It doesn't
help me to to look at you guys and be like, oh, well,
she just had a podet commercial and made it. You
know what. Our relationship, I actually enjoyed being friends with
(37:13):
Danielle way more than that little stigma that people tend
to hang on, you know. And also, let's just get real,
I'm a black actress. I mean, there's not There was
a great sweet time in the nineties when they were
using us to build up the up N and they
were using us to build up Fox Network, and it
ended and I caught a sweet spot in that time,
and um, it was amazing to be able to to
(37:36):
to hop on your show. It's it's just they're just
are weren't a lot of opportunities. They were very farmed
into a narrow path. We mentioned a bunch of the
shows that you had done before Boy Meets World, and
almost all of them, maybe all of them were entirely
(37:58):
black casts. Yeah, and then you come onto Boy Meets World,
which we have acknowledged her multiple times is the whitest
white cast and almost an exclusively white crew. There was
one lighting guy. Okay, well, and there's one lighting guy.
(38:21):
Because what was that like for you? I mean, you were,
like you said, it was very You were very comfortable
in that way because that was very much how you
grew up. But but still, what was that experience like
for you? It all right, it was comfortable for me
because of course my upbringing. But it also took a
lot of biting my tongue too, especially okay, when we
(38:45):
weren't filming, Okay, and everyone or when we were filming
and everyone would be back around that table at craft Services.
You know, that's where the real party was. So that's
when I when I wasn't filming and I'm kneeling around,
there's is especially on tape of nights. That's what I
would hear certain things or conversations people would say, and
I'd be and I'd have to go home and I would,
(39:07):
you know, really tell my husband at the time, I
can't believe they just said that. Like one mom, I'm
not gonna say too. It was at the time they
had another little TV that would have the news and
then they'd have the show. So one mom it was
voting time in California and they had some prop for
the Indians to get something. So one mom of one
of the best ever said, um, we don't know all
(39:29):
these Indians. I damn playing, you know. So it was
a lot of stuff like that. Would sometimes not a
lot what would happen, and I'd be like, think, though
I really had nobody to back me to say anything,
you know, or because she was kind of saying, it's everybody.
Anybody could have come in and said anything, you know.
(39:49):
So sometimes things or some sons I would just just
and I would just understand that some of our experiences
were not the same and our belief systems were not
the same. So it only really came into play when
people would speak their political issues on the set because
The reality is is you don't have to know anything
(40:12):
about me. You don't have to know anything about my
culture to get ahead in America. UM. I was taught
at a young age by my grandmother who was in
the working force and in the in the army, and
she was a just a great woman, and she always
worked in the white world. And we have to know
about you, we have to know how to get along
(40:32):
with you. UM. I have family members, you know, from Philly,
who if I brought them into a room with a
bunch of white people, they were just walked right out
the door because they wouldn't know really how to relate
to I. Really, I do want to thank my grandmother
for giving me that education, making me go to those
(40:55):
schools to be able to, um, get ahead, and that
then that part of society which is important to any
black and marriage to be able to achieve we have
to be able to compete, um with the masses. So um,
the feeling I always was watching, I always was taking
on my grandma, which she would say in the workplace,
(41:15):
So that meant biting my tongue a lot. It wasn't
that wasn't for me to get into every conversation I
want to say though, because Trina, you're you're talking right
now for sure about times where you bit your tongue,
and I know that that had to happen, but I
also there was very specifically a time that you didn't
bite your tongue and it was with a conversation that
you had with Will. And I want you guys to
talk about it because I bring it up only because
(41:38):
it is such an important moment in Will's life, specifically
that he has given you credit for over and over
again as being somebody who has changed his life. And
so why don't you guys talk just very briefly. We
have been in the news for this. It's been we
have talked about it ad nauseum, so we do not
want to spend a lot of time on it, but
I do want you guys to touch on it. Yeah,
we can touch on it, but it's Trina and I
(42:00):
have have been through this now a number of times.
So can you please tell the story so that we
can Here's how Here's how I remember, Here's how I
remember the story, and and and trying to correct me
if I'm wrong, writer was there as well, but here's
how I remember the story. So we used to always
make fun of each other on the set. That was
like our thing. I saw you come out of the
(42:23):
dressing room in a big red head scarf. In my head,
I attached no cultural significance to that whatsoever. I saw
a person who I thought was my friend but didn't
know all that well wearing a big red hat. It
was comfortable and you know enough, but you and I
still hadn't worked together a ton. But I was like,
(42:45):
you're part of the cast, so that means gonna make
fun of you the same way and make fun So
I thought, gonna make fun of her red hat. That's
as far as my dumbass, privileged mind saw it. And
so right before I walked on for my part, I
walked by and went love your syrup, and walked onto
the set, thinking boom Zing just got her for her hat.
(43:06):
I heard Rider laughing like it was like, hey, that's
what it was then exactly. But then so we finished this,
We finished the scene, and you came up to me
and you're like, that was not that was not okay,
And I was like what, I had no idea what
you were talking about. It's like what And you went that,
referring to me as Anthrew. Mima was like, oh my god,
I assumed that was like I remember saying this to you.
(43:28):
I was like, I assumed that was like you calling
me the jolly green giant and you're like, no, no,
that's not the same thing at all. And you explained
to me, of course I had no idea. Especially I'm
not trying to you never use the time as an excuse,
but the mid nineties, I had no idea the cultural
significance of the Anthrew being so surrounded by mostly, if
(43:53):
not all, white people. All I've never heard that. I
had no idea. So I was and I've used this
word about other things, but mortified because the last thing
you want to think is you're part of the problem,
Like your ignorance is part of the problem. I had
no idea. I was like in my head, I was going,
I mean, I made fun of her because of her hat.
That's all I was trying to do. Like what what
(44:15):
just happened? And I remember you very patiently explaining to
me why I was an idiot, and we hugged and
walked away. But I was shaken. I felt really small, likeluse,
could you not think about it? You're on the white
set with all the white people and oh, of course yeah,
(44:37):
and I was playing I was the nineteen or whatever.
I'm playing the joke like and and so you walked away,
and I remember like literally shaking, and then Rider and
I started talking, and it's a conversation that he and
I have had a hundred and fifty times since because
it literally changed my life. Where that moment was the
moment where I was like, you can't just say stuff.
(45:00):
You can't just throw things out there because you think
it's funny. But ah and walk away. You're you're hurting.
You could be hurting people. You could legitimately be hurting
people because you think it's funny. So what I actually
did is I asked people I knew. I just kept
telling friends and family the story and and they were like,
now it doesn't sound RACI, it just sounds really dumb.
(45:23):
Then literally, that was the feedback that I kept getting.
I didn't know. Yah, this is the thing. Will you
become part of the issue nowadays when you have to
move in spaces with people of color and you don't
really have to, you don't have to buy right, but
it would behieve you by right to learn about them
(45:44):
as much as you can. You know, you didn't ask
to back then, nor were you told to, nor were
you didn't affect your check nothing, you know what I'm saying.
The real tragedy in in all of it is the
years that went by that we First of all, we
didn't talk about it because because I really kept did
you know, because I think that also because like when
you said, how was it being in such a white show,
(46:06):
and I said, it was a lot of mouth shutting,
So you gotta think. I think by time that happened,
maybe we were second season or end of the first season,
so I really call a lot it happened, you know,
little things right right. It may have been the end
of the sixth season. Yeah, yeah, I don't know. It
(46:27):
flusters me to this day that I that I said
something like that to you out of such ignorance, and
I did apologize at the time, and then I apologized
in the letter that I wrote you because I was like,
oh my god, I can't believe that that this is
still going on because I thought we were we were
so cool. And then it's like, well, no, of course
it's still gonna matter. I mean, it's it's I said
something stupid and hollywand Hollywood doesn't do well for trust issues,
(46:51):
you know. And then of course the press. Yeah, the
press takes it and does what they want to do.
That's something I just want to do say. I did
not and this is just for me to say in general.
When I was you know, Matt Matt saying on Twitter, hand,
I didn't like this, and I didn't like this, and
you know, for me, it really was a matter of
I was frustrated. I felt that on my respect level
(47:13):
was not um appreciated, not that, and and and people
come in and make comments, Oh you you're you think
I don't know people people diminished what I think? What
was my bar of of respect? Okay? And I do
want to I do want to say this, Okay, and this,
And I don't want to come off arrogant saying this
(47:33):
or anything. It's just just about how I view my
placement in the show. Okay. You guys had a phenomenal
show from day one, cast chemistry, you had your first season,
you worked. I mean, this show is such a great,
amazing team effort. You know. Um, when I came on
the show, I did my first season. Um, halfway through
(47:54):
the first season, are are maybe the second season. I'm
not sure actually, but I asked Michael Jacobs, I said,
can I the show which featured me, um and something
about my character. I actually asked for those two shows
that were Angela's Men and Angela's Ashes. So um, when
the first show was shot, okay, and when the show
(48:16):
when we were um doing every week, we had Nielsen's ratings.
They came out every Wednesday. Okay. So the week before
that show aired, Angela's Men, Boy Meat's World was number
fifty two okay in the ratings. I'll never forget this.
When they aired Angela's Men, a great team effort. You
(48:38):
You were amazing will in that effort. Um. I think
the fact that they had aired a show that was
me with of me that brought in a whole new audience. Okay.
The ratings jumped from seventeen on that show, from fifty
two to seventeen. Am I saying that's all me and
the No, it's not like that. But at the time
(48:59):
I knew at that met that show had everything to
do not only with the up jump of ratings, but
also with the show being we were picked up two
weeks after that ware. Everyone thought we were going to
be canceled. About two weeks after that, we were canceled.
So lie thing is is everybody did their part, but
you can't deny that there was an audience that I
brought in that helped Jump to To give it another way,
(49:23):
usually when when cast members are added, it's called jump
the shark. Then there's the show's going down. You know,
I'm talk about will when you don't start, you know, yeah,
and that's Boy Meets World always. Um, it was was
not inclusive to its own peril. And like I mean,
we were we were a hit show obviously in certain regards,
(49:46):
but we also we followed family Matters and hanging Mr
Cooper was after we were in a huge like a
predominantly black block, betting that that audience in any way
and Eily Matters had better ratings than it was, so stupid,
you know, look in retrospect, and it was you know,
(50:08):
I don't think it was. I don't think it was
a consciously racist effort. But obviously there was an unconscious
bias on our show, you know, where we were completely like, well,
let's just right show, you know, in the same way
that our show didn't didn't have like great female characters.
For so long or didn't have you know, like we
talked about Betsy Randall not having like much of a
(50:29):
part because you know, so I mean, I you know,
we were limited by our worldview and so much so
like and I think, yeah, by the time they finally
brought you onto the show train and that was like
three years too late, you know, five years Alex Dessert,
you know, Alex Desert Alex, and they did nothing with him,
Like it was the most like, uh, you know, you
(50:52):
talk about a token race racial character, like and so creative,
least brilliant, and yeah, when you go and then he
went on to Becker and he and he crushed it
on Becker for years and years and years. Um no,
But just to close out our conversation, Tree, now you
(51:14):
know I love you, I I really do. You absolutely
changed my life for the better. You've really made me
a better person. And yeah, I just want I want
to say one thing also in closing, and that I
never said in the press that I had raised They
always say these extreme racist moments. It was one moment
where you said the syrup thing. I got mad. But
I don't count that as my entire experience on this show.
(51:38):
And I'm not saying this to give you a break,
because I'm kind of damn if I do or damn divide.
I love you, you know. I'm not trying to be
like but it's more like that's not my entire experience
on the show. You guys are not. It's not a
racial issue. It's more of a trust friendship at the
time where we were and and and people and you
guys kind of being snot kids and ship. It's pure
(52:01):
ignorance it was that I was back then, you know.
I would just also like to say two in closing
for this conversation because I know it is so important
to both of you that you you guys are both
over this conversation because everyone else wants to everyone wants
to keep about everybody else to be okay. I want
(52:34):
to jump back into okay. The conversation this is we
keep talking about race, but it's so important in in
in context of the show. I want to talk about
how you and writer, what the conversations were between the
two of you, and whether or not those conversations included
the writers or whether the writers talked about it with
you guys, whether or not to acknowledge the fact that
(52:54):
Angela and Sean were in an interracial relationship. Okay, this
is because my memory is not the great atis on this,
but what I did parts that do come to me
is I do remember maybe saying to Michael something like,
don't you think we should talk about this? But his
stance was like, we're not gonna talk about it. We're
not gonna talk about We're not gonna He was solid
on that. UM. I was very confused at the time
(53:18):
about whether to talk about it or not. I had to.
I had two realms of thinking, my job and mankind.
You know, so not too much, not too much of
a weight on your shoulder. I UM. At the time,
(53:38):
I'm gonna be honest, I kind of went with my job.
So I what I what had happened was is on
my end, Michael set me up and my husband at
the time with a publicist. You know, he had set
me up with the publicist. But they got together with
my publicist, Dick Gutman at the time, and they went
to the Daily News and they had me write this
whole article about why it's so great that we don't
(53:59):
mention um any color at all. It was in the
New York Times. You can look it up and how
it's creating its color by well. The truth is I
didn't really write that article, and my husband and the
publicist wrote it, and I just wanted to get upset.
I had to see the baby, and when I read it,
I kind of felt like, you know, I just can't
take this on right now. I didn't want to take
it on, and it wasn't really totally my organic view,
(54:24):
I do think, and funny enough, this is what why
you learned to You just say what you need to say.
Funny enough of rebuttal was written to The Daily News
by Lorraine Tousant, who said, no, I do not a
very very famous and very distinguished actress, Lorenejo songs and um,
she said, no, you must acknowledge that these are two
(54:47):
two different races getting together. It's very serious. It's it's
for all of her very good reasons. And I read
what she said, I actually kind of agreed with her.
But I was twenty six or seven at the time. Um,
I just had so much of my shoulders. I was like,
just let them run with it, and it seemed to
be working. And then then there another end of that
I want to say real quickly, is I get tired.
(55:07):
Um and most every black actor will tell you this,
from Sydney Potier um on to to to all of us.
Sometimes we just don't want the weight of having to
be always take on the black thing with I'm an actor.
I'm an actor. I was like, well, I felt kind
of free for a minute, like I don't have to
be just carry the weight of on the black girl
(55:29):
on the show, you know, as Yeah, I'm just I'm
moving and grooving like everybody else on normal. So that
help good, that aspect of it. But in reality, no,
that's not if you're really trying to relate to people,
and I am trying to help people. People needed to
talk about it, you know. So what hider with you? Writer?
(55:51):
Did you say something to Michael or something like? I mean,
I just remember I remember being very conflicted about it.
I remember I remember you and me personally being conflicted
about it, and I remember having conversations constantly about like
why don't we just references because I think I think
personally you you were very um proud of and expressive
(56:16):
of your black identity. Uh and and that was like
a part of you. I remember you always coming conversations
with me about your life and how you grew up.
And for me, just like it was always like, uh,
this is different, you know, this is this is this
person had a different experience than me, and I had
a different you know, even though we had the hippie
school thing apparently in the background for the most part,
(56:39):
I remember loving the difference and and recognized it, Oh
treats experience not only in real life, but on this
set right now is very different, and I loved it.
I loved being included in that. Like you and I
bonded very quickly. And I just remember, like by by
like eighteen and nineteen, being like, ohren is like a
(57:00):
good friend and this is a real like I'm learning
a lot, and this is an exposure to something that like.
And I remember you and I having conversations where you
would sort of be like, can you believe that this
happening in our set? Did you see that? And I
was made aware of things that I wouldn't have been otherwise,
do you know what I mean? And so I think
for me, I felt I but at the charitable reading
(57:22):
about Boy Meets World at the time is that we
were in the nineties MULTICULTI positive moment where uh it
was It was this idealism of color blindness, right, so
we're going to we're not going to reference race on
the show because that's the ideal, is that everybody's color
blind and we don't see differences, and that's gonna like
(57:43):
on a kids show, being a model for people. And
I think there's maybe some truth that I do think
that there's there are people that have have said to
me that that was good, um, and I think that's like,
but I also think that was an easy choice. I
think it's easy and and and it also can read
to black people as we don't like when people say
(58:04):
I don't see color, I don't see color. And when
I talked to cour see color. You know what I'm saying,
it's there, I see your color. We just can we
just respect it. We can even laugh and make jokes,
but we just don't disrespect or do mean and we
definitely don't replay, you know, the negative aspects of our
of our color differences. Really, it was an offshoot, though,
(58:25):
of what the success of the Cosby Show, and you know,
Cosby's whole thing was, we're not going to reference race.
The reality there, though, is you have an entirely all
black cast you probably have black writing staff, you know,
so like for us to compare ourselves to that sort
of post racial ideal was and always was, and in
(58:47):
retrospect like it was an easy out. It was an
easy out for our writing staff, It was an easy
out for our white actors. It was an easy out
for all of us. And I mean, you know, I
didn't know that about the article. I remember you writing
the article, or I remember reading your article and just
being proud that it was supportive of of us and
sort of getting acknowledgment of a job, okay, article being honest,
(59:11):
you know. So if I had to do it over
and I could take my real, real stance of hindsight
and everything, I would have definitely said I would have
wrote an opposite article, and I would have pushed more
for us to have at least more jokes about the
differences or and it would have been cool to have
(59:32):
an episode about you know, maybe you come to my
house and the food is different, or this is different exactly,
and was just treated as if she were she was
in white face. Can I tell you something I always
on the show. You know, this is my normal speaking voice, okay,
but sometimes from coming from black sitcoms. I always had
(59:53):
to have like a black meter so so so I
always when my black meter was probably a down to
about it too, you know. And I remember one time
when I was doing a Angela's Ashes episode sometow my
my black meter had slipped up and I was appy
about about a nine right. Michael comes over to me
and his note was, hey, TRAINA just turned down the
Delma Hopkins about eight notches. And I know exactly what
(01:00:15):
you were talking about. And you know, there's just so
many things you guys are so lucky you didn't have
to think about. So when I could, I didn't. Sometimes
it was too much and I just threw it. I
threw it away at the time, and I'm glad. I
think I think the majority of people in comments on
social media is say that they're cool with it not
(01:00:37):
being mentioned. But I do say those are predominantly white
people into racial couples wanted to be talked. I wish
you had said a little bit more. I wish you
had said it. And then there are a lot of
black people who kind of like it, like not mentioned,
you know, to they're as it was. So for a
certain subset of people, it's always gonna be like, wouldn't
(01:00:59):
it be nice if if two people could just love
each other, you know, regardless of race and not have
to acknowledge it. I think the reality is it's unavoidable,
and it's kind of but you know, they're still they're
still doing that today though. I mean ships Creak is
like that where they kind of they he talks about
that were invented world where you know the fact that
he's bisexual or there's they're the kind of being gay
(01:01:22):
is totally accepted to the point where it's never mentioned.
He's like, that's how I wanted to do it, because
that's what the town I wanted to live in, where
it's like it just doesn't matter, you know. Can I
tell you every interracial couple I see on TV after us,
I always say they copied us. They copied us everyone
they were or not the first for teens, I think
(01:01:43):
so in General Hospital that looks they use my name
for the character Trina, and it would just like us.
And I know, you know, you talked about you talked
about on the Internet and and feeling like there are
a lot of people who disrespect you and lower the
bar for know, first of all, that's the Internet is
just the worst, sometimes the worst place ever. But when
(01:02:05):
I tell you the amount of comments and emails we
get about how important you are to our show, to them,
how important your relationship with Sean is, how much me
how much Like I knew it was an important aspect
of our show, but I am not going to lie
(01:02:26):
that it. It is shocking the amount of people who
reach out and say, Trina, Trina, Trina, Trina, Trina, I
gotta I gotta show you something. Okay, you are so beloved. Okay,
this is something a fan made me. I've kept it
over here, scrap book. It's a full scrap of Oh
(01:02:50):
my gosh, it's just like a lot. Okay, this is
how it Because I have an age in a single picture,
You have an age that possible. That is amazing. I mean,
it's just it's it's amazing. I mean, we're actually relevant
(01:03:11):
now because because of the cliffhangers, you know, the whole
thing Sean and Angela, though, is funny because people keep
saying I wish they had ended up together. They should
have been endgame. I am so glad they weren't end
game because now everybody talks about it. For twenty years nice. Nice,
(01:03:37):
I actually do want to ask you about that you
mentioned asking for the episodes that the two back to
back episodes, Angela's Men and Angela's Ashes. We have heard
so many times how upset people are that you were
not in our series finale. Okay, I got really frankly
about that. Yes, because we don't we don't ground we
(01:03:59):
have not covered okay, because we don't get that all right.
I was told in a kind of a weird, offhanded
way by a very important person that you guys all
went to Michael Jacobs and you said, we don't want
her in the last episode. What she's she's somehow taking
(01:04:19):
our light was the gist of it, and we don't
want her in the last episode. Wow. Oh yeah, Oh
my god. So I was told that after I shot
what was the what was the show before the last episode?
The show before the last episode was called I think
(01:04:40):
it was Angela's Ashes. Yeah, when I left, Okay, So
I when Michael announced to me, oh, we're gonna do
another show on Angela, I was just so happy. I
was and I'm not knowing this was gonna be the
show before the last show. And I remember after we
take the show, I had said to a person, Um,
(01:05:02):
you know, why why are you in the last show?
Because I know the last show is gonna be the
one with all the ratings and all the crying and
all the stuff. I was under the impression y'all got
together and did not want me in the last show
for some reason. I was gonna take some shine or
something like to that effect. That's what I say. There
was an element of competitivism there that really probably didn't
need to be there. That was really hurtful for Tea
(01:05:26):
for a long time. And to make it worse, you know,
people of color um tend to look into things a
little hard or sometimes so I had cousins calling me saying,
how come you one in the last episode? So they
just gave you that whole show so that you would
be distracted. It wouldn't be in the show with the
real ratings and the real thing. Several of my cousins,
my family members are telling me this, and I'm thinking,
(01:05:47):
you know what, this is strange. And then I was
hit with that particular news about it, that it was
some kind of kotata, you know, And then I liked, um,
this is a true and then I when I watched
that Lefto, which I've never really fully watched because I've
always felt funny about it and I always looked at like, well,
(01:06:07):
why is Maitland in it? That's what I was going
to say. I don't remember much of the episode except
for the class and I was about to ask That's
what I was at least not in the last scene,
obviously the last last they're in the last episode, why so, like,
why the hell would we go? Whoever you're talking about?
(01:06:29):
Not even in school with you guys? Ever? Except character?
Was Math's character moving to New York with us at
the end of Boy? I don't know because what I remember.
What I remember was that there were people not like
I did not want to do this, but I remember
that there was a conversation about the show continuing, possibly
(01:06:50):
being picked up, or a new show with those of
us who moved to New York going on and creating
like a twenty something like a spinoff that was years
later or no, years later, but they I remember there
was conversation on set that week, people being like, they're
setting up the potential for a new show with the
you know, which still excluded Trina you know. So I'm
(01:07:14):
not saying anything better. But what I'm saying that like,
and all I did, I wanted off of the show
at that point. I mean, I was very sad with
boy Needs. The world was ending, but I was I
was already going to Columbia. I was already ready to
like a rolling and like moved to New York. So
like I did not want to do that. But I
remember people talking like, oh, they're potentially ABC is potentially
setting up a spinoff show with you guys going on
(01:07:35):
to New York. But and I honestly, can we say,
for the for the record, can we say, for the record, Yeah,
we say, for the record, Trina, that never happened, not
with the happened every trading on the lives of my children.
I swear on my marriage and my wife that never
(01:07:58):
ever leave you. Oh god, oh god, in my head
for so long. No, I've never watched that show. I've
always felt like, and I'm sorry, I'm sorry you say
that's competitiveness. That's not competitiveness to me, that's like sociopathy. Oh,
(01:08:19):
this pisces me off. I'm sorry, that's like not real,
this pisses me off. This is this is next level
crazy kind of a long time. See I what do
you want him? An actress? Like we think we think,
you know, like when something happens right and you wish
you could have said something in somebody some way, but
(01:08:41):
so you go over it in your mind you're like,
I wish I hadn't said that, and I can told
him this this way. You know what I'm saying. Boyman's
world is such a big thing. It's such a big thing.
It's been such a big thing. I haven't had a
decince boy me. It's world where there's not one day
I don't hear the word. So give him. Give me
that credit that it's in my head all the time,
(01:09:02):
everywhere I go, and every now and then, maybe ten
years ago, i'd be like, I wish I had a
tall tom I did do that. It was really messed up,
And it's really messed up when you're doing that often
that's not even like for real. Yeah, And one of
one of the greatest things that's come out of all
of this, and us doing conventions together and us talking
(01:09:22):
and all of this is that all those years that
went by when boy Meats World ended, I didn't have
Traina's phone number. Again, we were in very different places
in our life we were I think the worst thing
you could say about our relationship is that we were
um friendly coworkers more than friends off off stage. And
that's what I'm saying, you know, That's what I'm saying.
(01:09:44):
We we What would we have done after work? Like
you said, you had to go home to a family.
I was driving Laurel Canyon for funzies like we had um.
But the thing that that I makes me happiest now
is that, and that is a regret of mine, is
the conversations that we had, or like you're saying, where
(01:10:06):
things build up over time, where someone told you something
that was very untrue and hurt you. And when people
know that, they can get you to feel a certain
way by playing to the competitiveness and knowing, oh, Danielle
is so checked out. She's not, she's not. They're not
going to have that conversation with each other. So I
can say this and they're never gonna know that I
(01:10:28):
said this to her. And because the silence, once it
hits your brain and then you're silent, the silence grows
and then the whole imagery of it becomes bigger than
exactly than what it really is. I would also like
to point out that that he did not do this,
at least in my opinion, in my experience, he didn't
do this to the guys. I mean, yes, it's true
that we weren't played against each other, but I won't
(01:10:50):
go so far as to say we weren't manipulated. Oh no,
that's different. Manipulated. All weren't played. It wasn't whispering one
year and then whispering another ear about something else. And
I think it goes back to Trina's point from before,
where it's everybody stay in your own lane. Nobody's going
to talk about anything. Let's stay as divided as we
possibly can. Yeah, you're just gonna stay as as in
(01:11:12):
your and nobody's going to talk about anything. And so
not only does nothing get done, but as time passes,
it festers. Yeah. You, by the way, by the time
you came to Girl Meets World, you had had fourteen
or fifteen years of believing we got together to keep
you from being in the seld. And then the interaction
you have with me is very cold. How could you
(01:11:32):
not walk away thinking she hates me? She had after me.
We have to we're always in competition. We will always
be in competition. And then when it when we finally
talked and said, okay, let's just lay it all out.
Here's what I heard, here's what I heard, here's what
I heard. And then all that stuff came up and
we had all our big therapy moments, and then we
looked at each other and we said, what a shame
(01:11:55):
we weren't able to just talk about this from the
beginning because we have wasted years. Yes, we could have
helped each other. We could have been there for you
to strategize. We could have got over on everybody. We
could have been there for each other the way we've
been there for each other through multiple hardships over the
last several years. So that, for me is the biggest
lesson and the and um and the importance of talking
(01:12:18):
and and being willing to dig deep for the same purpose,
which is growing and becoming better people and doing better
maybe a better person. You may be a better person
train all the way through trusting you, guys. I like
trusting you. It feels really good. I'm so sorry that
it's Hollwood. Well. We are so grateful that you came
(01:12:46):
to have this conversation with us today. We love you.
So much. We're going to be seeing you a bunch
over the last several months. We're gonna we're not going
to watch the episode. I was already and everything. I
had all my nose. But that's okay, we are. So
I'm wrapping this episode up. I'm gonna wrap this one up.
(01:13:06):
We'll say goodbye to you and then we'll keep you here.
But I'm gonna wrap this one up. So all right,
thank you, We thank you so much for being here.
What a wonderful conversation. Was going to stick with us
to do the recap of our next episode, which is
episode eleven, The Father Son Game, which originally aired on
December sevent so stick around for that. But um, Trina,
(01:13:29):
we can't thank you enough for being here with us.
And we love you. We love you, Trina, Thank you,
we love you all. Pod dismissed Pod Meets World as
an I Heart podcast produced and hosted by Daniel Fisher,
Wilfredell and Writer Strong. Executive producers Jensen Carpon, Amy Sugarman,
Executive in charge of production, Danielle Romo, producer and editor,
Tara sud bachh producer, The rain Verruez engineer and Boy
(01:13:52):
meets World super fan Easton Allen. Our theme song is
by Kyle Morton of Typhoon. Follow us on Instagram at
Pod Meets World Show or email us at Pod Meets
World Show at gmail dot com
I'm going to apologize everybody right after that. By the way,
if I'm a little out of it because I am
Dave four of fast, really tell me more about this fast.
I want to know Sue and I are doing it
together and it is just wedding fast. Yeah, but it's
not even It's like, first of all, we look forward
(00:38):
to the olives like, I know, when you only get
them two of the games shining on your face, yes,
like you get it to like we'll look to each
other six hours before and be like, we get olives,
it's almost time for allis it is the other thing
that they don't tell you about, is it makes you
so gassy that the two of us look at each
other like, thank god, we're we we we said for
(01:00):
better or for worse, because this is the worst part.
This is the part that everyone's talking. Come down to
it and year olds talking about gas. It's true, bad
diet fasting, you're gassing is what we're doing right now.
It is so I'm day four, if I if i'm
if I'm out of it a little bit, that's why,
oh my gosh, yikes, I get olives today. It's an
(01:23):
all of day congratulations. If you're going to get that
one all of like halfway through our show and suddenly
start perking up. They're talking more. Dude, Seriously. I was
eating my bar this morning and walked in and she went,
what are you doing? Slow down, Savorite, that's all your
small bites, that's all you get into like noon. I
was like, I know, I know, it's horrible. Oh my gosh.
Really I thought i'd start the day is by telling
(01:45):
you about my my fast Um, good to sea bold
of you. Is there something we we would rather talk
about for happening up the show? Is there any other
pre chatter we would like to I found a anything,
anything would be better. I have a lump in my armpit? Exactly?
(02:06):
Is that weird? Is that bizarre? Does anybody else smell purple?
Is that? Is that weird? We're all really excited about
our guest today. Um Angela Moore was Shawn's long term
girlfriend and to Panca's best friend. She is an absolute
massive fan favorite, and we know her as Trina McGhee.
She was in fifty nine episodes of Boy Meets World.
(02:29):
She first appeared in season five, episode two, Boy Meets
the Real World or actually I think it's Just Boy
meets Real World and uh, she is absolutely our most
requested guest by fans. We have been getting your emails.
We are so excited to have her here. Uh. We
didn't want to wait until season five when she makes
her first appearance on the show. We wanted to bring
(02:49):
her in now. So please join me in welcoming Miss
Trina McGhee. At some point, I'm going to comb my
arab before you. At some point, Thank you, Trina. At
some point. For four days, I haven't eaten for four days.
I've had soup, powdered soup. You're talking to the perfect
(03:12):
person about fast t Yes, you're talking the perfect person
for I'm on a fast Are you hearing the voices yet? Yes?
And seeing seeing the weird things flying around, like we'll
just we'll be sitting there and all of a sudden,
we'll just go like something just fluid. It's just very strange.
Are you serious? You're like hallucinating? I try it feels
(03:35):
like that, like the third day, a little like you
could you could bring your mind there. I have an
alternative eat food, just too much of it. My cells
need rejuvenating. Writer, we didn't all go to a hippie
school where we learned everything about eat, drink and be merry. Like, yeah,
I know, it still looks like he's thirteen. It kills me.
(03:58):
I know, wait, Traina, I actually this is a good
chance now that we're talking about this writer, can we
can we go back to what we learned yesterday, Trina.
We learned yesterday that writer went to a high school where.
You know, first of all, we knew this that his
graduating class in high school was twelve twelve students at
at his high school in his graduating class. But what
we learned yesterday was that he walked a mile to
(04:20):
school every day and whoever was the first person to
arrive at the school had to start the fire to
warm the shed that they learned in it like you
do in high school. And there was it was a
series of buildings, but the main building, which was you know,
like an old house, like this whole feat up house
that had been converted to just like rooms where students
(04:43):
could gather, had a wood burning stove and if you
got there before anybody else, you had to start the
fire to warm the place up. Ye I was gonna say,
because you do realize that when they described cult compounds.
They always start with it's a series of buildings. Yes,
it was, but look all schools are like that, right,
Like Actually, this explains a lot between how maybe me
(05:08):
and writer clicked so well because I went to a
similar hippie type school where they used to take us
up to um from this city to this farm for
a week, three times out of the year, and you
had to get up and do chores and stuff like
that when it was only twenty people in our every class.
This was from from fourth grade to eighth grade. I
(05:29):
went to people in my class it was called Manhattan
Country School. Wow, that's what my older brother did. Something similar.
My family went to something called the Mountain School where
for like half of semeter in high school they went
to Vermont and like lived on a farm. But that's
different the good that was an experience. They took you
from a regular school to that experience. That wasn't It
(05:50):
wasn't like all writers here first, he's got to turn
about her. It wasn't. I mean when we left our
school for because we would do trips. We we went backpacking.
It was literally what you could carry on your back
into the wilderness. Good luck. Yeah, And then there were
some vital trips, maybe a trip for things went wrong.
We had bear encounters, we had trips where like it
(06:11):
rained on us for four days stree like nine and
I was like eleven, Yeah, but it was the best experience,
Like I mean I look back on I mean, like now,
because you know, I just took Indie to Alaska and man,
the kid just cries and complains it. I mean, we're
trying to do like normal day height and he's just
and I'm like, oh my god, I'm want to send
you away. Yes, I want to send you away to summer.
(06:31):
Like I was not a big believer in summer camp
because I never went to summer camp. I just like
went camping with my family. And so but now I'm like,
I want to send him to summer camp because he
needs like another adult to tell him, like, fuck up, kid,
because like Alex and I can only say it so
many times before we're just like mean parents. You know,
summer camp is great. Summer camp is the best. I
had Summer camp every single year up to becoming a counselor, Like,
(06:53):
summer camp is the best. Okay, So we've learned already
that maybe part of the reason you and writer had
such chemistry is because you guys both went to hippie
high school. But that is jumping ahead because I can't
wait to talk about your chemistry. But one of the
things we love to ask everybody who comes on the
show is tell us about your origin story before we
(07:14):
all got to know you as Trina McGee and and
as Angela Moore. Tell us a little bit about the
early stages of your career. How did you get into acting? Uh? Well,
I my road was very self driven. It was honestly
something I just knew I was gonna do. I woke
up one morning and I was like, I'm going to
(07:35):
be an actress now. The time before that, I had
already been two years at Howard University, and I was
gonna be I was a political science major at Howard University,
but I really wasn't. I went to a very funny
time of going to Howard University because at the time, um,
it was a very popular thing to go to a
(07:55):
black college university. And I went there because I had
predominantly had and upbringing with all white schools. So as
the Angela character you see me as in an all
white situation was how I grew up I went to
a predominantly all the hippie elementary school than a very
stark um high end, um predominantly Jewish um high school
(08:18):
called Horace Man in New York in Riverdale. I was
very competitive, you know, and I got there through you know,
scholarships or whatever. And so then when I went to college,
I wanted to go to an all black college. So
who was in my freshman year in the hall back College?
But P Diddy, um kid and play used to come
down and play all the times. I'm my best friend.
Used to date P Diddy. I'd always used to drive
(08:39):
with him back and forth from from DC to New York.
Um just you know, was Heathen of de Malverne and
I lived in Yonkers, Um, so I got a cat
caught up more in the entertainment that was coming to
Howard rather than actually you know, going to school, and
you know, and I realized, you know, I'm not gonna
(09:00):
you know, and it already Actually it started before that
in high school that I actually started cutting classes to
go on auditions downtown. My first audition, um, when I
was sixteen, was for Bill Cosby and I had actually
they had a thing on the wall. It would open audition.
I went to the open audition. I got called back twice.
And this happened like three times. Now. I started cutting
(09:22):
school in high school to go downtown and do creative
stuff and and and I got in trouble, and my
chemistry teacher I got in trouble, especially in chemistry and math.
I just wasn't interested. And they told me, if you
cut school one more time, you're you're gonna be, you know,
in big trouble. You may not be able to come
back to hars Man, this really big thing that I
was going to. So they had an open call for
(09:45):
the The Cosby Show. So I begged my chemistry teacher.
I said, please, can you please just let me leave
to go on this audition and I can I not
get in trouble, do not report me to the to whoever.
And he just says, okay, today, not Bill. You will
never be a teennist. You're never gonna be at Kenny
and inaccurate. Yeah. So I go to these auditions and
(10:08):
three times for Bill Bill Cosby, I got to um
actually get taken to Brooklyn on the last time, and
and and and and we had I didn't get the part,
so they had sent you home on this van right
that when you didn't get the part for Bill Cosby
and Brooklyn. It goes from Brooklyn to back to Manhattan.
You don't want to be on the van. So I'm
on the van with this other girl, didn't. I think
(10:31):
in retrospect, you want to be on you want to
be exactly. I remember Felicia Rashan coming coming out and saying, girl,
do you know how many parts I didn't get? Because
I was crying, I was balling, and I didn't get
this part. But then yeah, So then I went to
(10:53):
college and I uh was always so many stars with
my freshman class. Big didn't he polloge I Park I
don't know if you knew who she was, but she
was a big actress on Fridays. And Wendy Wendy uh
Mickel Robinson who was on the Game now to Rogie
Henson was in the class right below us. And Debbie Allen,
who is a very big and um the arts community.
(11:15):
I don't know if you know, guys, be taught she
taught um drama there. But I'm not going to school
for dram. I'm going to school for political science. So
you know, long story short, I left after two years
and I just said, let me just come home. I
moved back with my grandmother and I just started auditioning.
But I thought I was gonna be a model then.
So I and I auditioned for this agency called Flick
(11:38):
Flick No Click. It was back then for Molly and
they said, no, well, you know, little you're a little short.
Maybe you might want to try acting. And they said, okay,
we'll send you out on a couple of auditions. See
what you get. We're not gonna sign you. And they
sent me on on. My first audition was for this
play called Chelsea Walls and it had Ed Sharon, Vincent
Dinofrio was in it. Um, Marissa tone A, Gina Gershawn. Okay,
(12:02):
nobody was anybody then, And I end up doing this
way at this small part and Ed Sharon, who directed it,
went on to direct Law and Order, um, all the
law and order stuff. So nobody was anybody. Jane Alexander
was like the matron of the whole thing. So um,
So then that happens, and then my second after right
after that, my next auditions for a show Quincy Jones
(12:23):
is doing. I mean literally, it's my first three auditions
I'm kind of just discovered, you know. And then Quincy
Jones had this audition open call, eight hundred girls across
the country. Then I make it down to like the
last eleven girls, and that's what brought me out to
l A from New York, that Quincy Jones, but not
to necessarily have the part to compete against four spots
(12:46):
and eleven girls. So these eleven girls are me, Regina King,
Lauren Hill, uh, this girl named Lisa to Cole Carson,
he was working all the time. Then wow, and then
finally I actually get this part, this Quincy Jones part,
and it's me. It's me and this girl Rose and Lisa,
and we're gonna be this this big thing like the Monkeys,
(13:06):
but it's gonna be a TV show, and long story short,
the whole thing just falls apart, you know. But I
left out here in l A with an agent and
I start beating the Really, now heone's taken me serious? Wait,
hold on, I have a question about this Quincy Jones show.
So it was like a music show. The four of
you were going to be a musical act TV show. Yes,
(13:28):
and you beat Lauren Hill. Yeah, yeah, musical show. I
remember that story because I remember because like the fujis
became huge, like while we were doing Boy and like
you know, I beat her for a job. Oh my god,
what a story. No funny enough before that, a year
before that, I had my first jobs were off Broadway
(13:50):
plays and I used to do hip hop musicals and yeah,
and I'd started about three of them off Broadway. And
Lauren Hill was the sixteen year olds was the fifteen
was the backup dancer for my show. Hearing you talk
about New York though, it brings you right back to
and if you didn't know that scene, the like the
New York audition scene where they would put you in
(14:12):
a van, well you you'd go and you'd everybody would
audition for Law and Order once a week, like it
was it's what you had. It would just say like
mix and match sessions too. It was always like show up,
this stay, show up and they yeah, because it really
New York was out of the theater tradition, which is
so crazy, and it's so like people show up and
at the end of the day there's ten left, and
then the next day there's thirty people and it's like
(14:34):
all this like you always have the job and then
you don't have the job. It's like it was crazy
up staircases, Like you walk up staircases at twelve or
thirteen years old, these tiny little staircases, and you turn
a corner into this tiny little hallway and there'll be
forty two kids your age for some Cheerios commercial. Black steps,
white walls, Yes, yes, the hot as hell and yes.
(15:01):
Or you're in one of those terrible elevators. You've got
to move your little gate to the side, and it
barely like it's clicking up the steps to go up
and see Leonardo DiCaprio, who's auditioning for an A T
and T commercial. It's like that kind of thing. It
was such a such a scene. I also didn't know.
I'm amazed because I love television. I'm a television addict.
I didn't know they shot Cosby in New York. They
(15:22):
thought that was out here Brooklyn, in Brooklyn, in the
same studios as my favorite soap opera at the time,
Another World. I thought that was an l a series. Okay,
that was more interesting. Okay, so you by the time
you end up getting too Boy Meets World, you had
already been on Sinbad, a different world. Martin picket fences,
(15:42):
family matters and parenthood, and right, I had it done Daylight,
and I had all the jobs I was gonna do. Okay,
boy was your retirement plan? Believe you? When you got
(16:10):
the audition for boy Meats World? Had you ever heard
of boy Meets World? Had you ever seen Boy Meats World?
What did you know about the show if anything? And
what did they tell you about the character you were
auditioning for? Good question? Okay, Okay, I didn't blow Boy
Meets World crept up on me. Like I was just
watching the season one thing, you know, watch long thing,
(16:33):
and at that time, you guys were in season one.
That was off the radar for me. I had just
I just maybe done a different world than that. That
that year, I was had debate on my first child.
I was, you know, newly married, and so Boyme's World
was very much off the radar until after I had
done a movie called Daylight. Okay, And it was eighteen
(16:57):
months between Daylight and my next job, and I had
left my children in St. Louis with their grandparents and
was coming periodically out here because I just wanted them
to be and you know, we had had some family situations.
I wanted them to be, you know, with more family
instead of this l a life. So and I was
coming back to audition, but I had been doing this
(17:17):
back and forth for eighteen months, not having much luck.
I was kind of getting discouraged. I had just done
a big movie, so I'm thinking everyone's just supposed to
receive me in Hollywood, you know, which may or may
not happen, you know. So, um, I'm at this Hope,
this like kind of not so great hotel on Wilshure right,
and I'm I just had this big audition with Lauren Batty,
(17:39):
okay for both for the halle Berry you know. So,
and I was just depressed. I kind of knew I
didn't get this and everything. So I turned on my TV.
It's Friday, and I was so disciplined back then. I
didn't go out and do nothing. I was just focused.
So it's Friday night, I'm in the sad hotel away
from my kids, and I turned the TV and it
comes in in fun Is is Boime Twirl? And I
(18:03):
kind of got this weird feeling about this show. I
actually started watching it, and this was maybe six months
before I actually got the audition. When I actually started
watching it every Friday because really there was no other
channel that the TV could get to because it was
such a bad fault. I only get Boimesworld. I know
(18:25):
this is no why so um after a while it
was prepping for the audience exactly. You know, the one
door is closed and you keeping on it and then
another door opens. It was that crappy hotel door. Yes,
and see, I know sitcom. I've always said all I
did was sitco every black sitcom for that I'd done,
(18:47):
and others to coom I just done. So so I
liked sitcom like the Beach, So that was and that
was the only show I could watch. The watch it
and then um, about six months later, I get this
call for Boy Meets Worlds. I thought that was kind
of surreal, and then they told me they didn't really
describe the part. They just said I love interest for Sean.
(19:08):
Um they had. But the thing is, I knew you
had to be funny, you know, But when they gave
me the first first side, there was nothing funny about
drama for a joke, you know? It was it was
the scene. It was the scene that what I read
with with Trina when they brought brought me into for
us to do a chemistry read. It was a scene
(19:30):
that we had already done on the show. It was
a scene with um Larissa Otlantic when she had been
my girlfriend for like two episodes. I threw a picnic
for her out in the snow, and you know, it
was a dramatic scene. It was like Sean making this
big romantic gesture and the conversation between the two of them.
And so we had done it the year before or
(19:51):
two years before or whatever, and they were using that
scene to audition Angela's because they picked the one dramatic
Shawn scene. I knew it was some back and like romantic.
Why there was as I remember it was, of course
there's That's how it was like. And then you had
(20:11):
to come back like that part. That part. Okay, So
I come in the first time. Now I come in
for Barbie Block. Now this is this is a funny story,
coming to read for Bobby Block first time? Okay. Um,
they go back to my agent and say that we
have no interest in her. She's not funny. So I'm like,
wait a minute, there's nothing on the page that was funny,
(20:31):
But what are they talking about? So I actually go
to my manager's office the next day and I said,
because I'm when I'm auditioning in l A. At this point,
it's it's like ten girls in every audition, so I
know who my competition is. So I go back to
my age of the next day and I'm like, there's
only ten girls in this talent auditioning around all right.
I know this is my part. This is how I
(20:51):
grew up. I know how it is to be an
all white situation, you know, and this is it, this
is me. I can't really call them back and get
me in again. So my manager kind of loosing, like oh, traina,
I mean, so I'm walking. All of a sudden, my
manager gets a phone call and she's puts me on
hold off. So I go ahead and I start talking
to the receptionist. Okay, who is this like feisty little
(21:15):
college kid, and she's so I can't couldn't stand her boss,
who was the one who just told me to wait
outside because she had to take a call. I can't
stand them. They never let me do anything. It's this
asistant talking. And I said, you know, yeah, they know
one was to take chances, and I said, I should
be back in that room. Okay, I'm telling you, I
think so too. So she, because she wants to make
some feisty move, calls back Barbie Block and pushes me
(21:38):
back into that us without my manager knowing. Okay. It
was like the conspiracy of two spunky little chicks. Okay.
So actually, for some reason, Barbie Black said you okay,
(21:59):
we'll see you here again, you know. And so I
go back and I didn't know what more to do
because it was the same thing. But for some reason,
when I got that got back Michael. Maybe it's seen
a tape, I think. So then I get a call
and that to come back again, you know. So I
come back again and there's and I come back and
(22:19):
there's like eight to ten girls. For some reason, to
see I always remember the seating of this situation because
it would be I always like to separate myself from
people in auditions, you know. So there's eight two girls
sitting on a bench in front of me, and I'm
on the other bunch. I'm just looking at these eight
to ten girls. Everybody goes in. I going last. Then
I get a call coming the next day, same thing,
(22:40):
fresh new eight to ten girls, and it's me standing
across from them. They go, and I going. Then it's
the last three days of this eight to ten girls,
New girls, and and and then that day Michael came
out into the waiting area and he looks at everybody,
and and then I'm in the bathroom and he goes,
come here, I want to talk to you, and and
(23:00):
and we go in the bathroom together, like and all
the girls could see him. Wanted to give me these
notes or whatever it was. I want you to be different,
like nobody else has ever been on this. You gotta
be different, okay. And then I had some lipstick on
and I started putting something. He goes, no, notes, so
take that lipstick off. That's not it. You just come
(23:21):
in different. So that was the direction. Different, look different,
do something different to yourself. So I start to put
these lipstick on it. No, no, it's not it. Take
the lipstick off. That's forbade him. So and he walks out.
(23:41):
He goes into him and I guess you were in
the room writer and everything, and I'm taking I'm like
so nervous. And then this time I go in before
all the girls go in, and I go in and
I read with you and these these is the time,
these walls that these auditions were thin thin. I don't
know what in l A and you can hear everything.
So I go in and I do the audition. I
(24:01):
don't know if I'm good or not. I didn't know.
I'm just doing me. And I come out and two
of the girls who were on the bench looked at
me and they said, the girl, we knows you, you know, yeah,
and then you know that that's how I And then
a couple of days later, I got a call that
I was going to be on the show. But see,
in my mind, I was always a series regular. I
(24:23):
was very arrogant back then, I have to say, I
was very actressy and you know, so I just assumed
that I was assumed a series of regular. It wasn't
n till like three months later being on the show
and Michael said, hey, Trainer, we really like your work
and we're gonna keep you. And I was like, yeah,
well yeah, I already know that that was the point. Yeah, exactly,
(24:44):
I love that. So that was you know, that's well,
that's my question. That's what I wonder. I was was
the Angela character? Was she supposed to be just reoccurring?
Originally or was she always planning on they were testing
it out. I think they wanted a regular arter, but
they weren't sure, so they wanted which is you know,
smart on their part, right. I mean it's not great
(25:05):
for for you, Trina, because you're not getting paid as
well or have any sort of future out. Yeah, so
they eat it out. Also, it's good creatively because you
can sort of feel out, you know, whether this character
is gonna work or not. But here's my question, Trina,
So we're all the other actress is black? Was that
like every single one, every shade from like light skins
(25:28):
and Caramel going down? Gabrielle Union was there? Essence Atkins
was one of the people. I don't remember too many
other of the girls, but I remember Gabrielle Union was
on like the second day bench. You know, so you're
the only person I ever read with. And at that point,
(25:48):
I mean they had already I had had a meeting
with the producers. Wait, so when those girls were going in,
they weren't reading with you know, I think I think
you might be combining time. No either, either they brought
me in and just to read with you and brought
me back out, or you're conflating two different meetings. By
the time I met you, it was sort of like,
this is what who we think is the girl? What
(26:10):
do you think? And I remember realizing it was the
scene that I had done with Larissa and thinking, well,
no one could do this better than Larissa, like this
is gonna suck, and then reading with you and after
you left being like, oh, yeah, that was incredible. This
is so and just being like absolutely, there's no doubt
in my mind that this will work like it was
so it was so obvious, like I don't know, I
felt it in the room, and I'm pretty sure you
(26:31):
did too. It was like, oh, this is this is
so easy. Trina, what was your first impression of Writer?
I thought a writer was really cute, and I liked
reading with him because I felt like our timing was
very mutually nice. It was just a nice chemistry. I
really liked acting with Writer, especially when I had to
do softer scenes, you know. But I thought it was cute,
(26:53):
you know, but I just thought it was a kid
really kind of telling you about so was age? Well,
hold on, hold on, Trina, Trina looks younger than any
of us, than all of us, but Trina is actually, well,
(27:17):
she's twelve years old. You're twelve years older than me. Yeah,
and so that makes you tend to eleven years older
than Writer. And so Writer was seventeen at the time,
right right, this was you came in and you were
twenty eight years ago. We did not find out for Trina,
(27:37):
did you share your age with anybody or was it?
If not, was it a conscious choice to not let
anyone know your age. I never think about my age
like that. I just feel like it is what it is.
I wasn't a conscious choice. Michael actually let her later
said he thought I was older than it was. Really,
but no, I think that was about eleven years older
(28:01):
than than Writer. And you know I didn't. I was
so I gotta say this is please forgive me people change.
I was so into myself, and I was so into
myself that, like, you know, I thought about okay things,
but I only thought about it in for chains of
you know, honestly, how I can get ahead? You know,
(28:23):
I can. I can jog your I can jog your
memory because I remember very specifically what happened and why
you didn't tell us your age, because you did not
choose to know. I do so I had done an
episode where I was making out with a guest star
m and she showed up at the tape night with
a baby, and we found out because we had assumed
(28:44):
all week that she was my age or whatever, and
she turned out to be twenty eight or something baby,
and we freaked out at the time, you know, because
I was seventeen and I was like, oh my god.
And so we told that story in front of you
when you were just a guest star or whatever, your
first and I remember then you kept your mouth. She
(29:05):
was never going to say a word. It was weeks
later and it was you, me and Will and we're rehearsing,
and I don't remember somebody said something about like a
year or whatever, and you nodded like knowingly, and Will
looked at you and called you out in front of me. Will,
you were like, how old are you training? How old
are you really? Just like I don't know, I don't
(29:27):
want to say. And then and she was like, He's like,
you're over twenty, aren't you. And she's like, yeah, I'm
twenty eight. He's like, how many kids you got? How
many kids you got? And You're like too, at the time,
you have two kids. And we were like, oh my god.
I was like, no, no, it's okay, and you're like,
it's not okay. I heard you talking about that other
actors and it freaked you out, and so that's why
you kept your mouth shut from me. And then I
was like, no, no, no, it's okay. It's totally fine,
(29:49):
even though I had no filter. I had no I
had no filter. Back in the hold, Tina, I wanted
it back to what you said where Trina, where you said,
oh please forgive me people change. I was so into myself, like,
first of all, we were all narcissists. It wasn't I mean, yes,
(30:14):
for sure, but also not just narcissist. Also, just like teenage,
the world revolves around me. Like I literally remember thinking
like all day every day, being like when do I
get to drive down Laurel Canyon for the first time?
You know, I was sixteen, I had just gotten my
driver's license, Like I was so excited to drive down
(30:34):
Laurel Canyon, and and whether or not I was gonna
go which dance I was going to. I that was
all I was thinking about. I wasn't thinking about anything else.
And for you, Trina, as I have gotten older, and
we have had so many conversations and all of this, this,
these conversations that we've had have been like therapy for us,
talking about our our histories and our past together. When
(30:55):
I think about that, for you, at twenty eight years old,
married with two children and pregnant at the time with
your third shewing my brain and insane, you, of course,
this was a career for you. This was it, sus
(31:19):
and had a very important job. It was a regular job.
It was every week coming back and like you said,
in your mind, you set your sights on I'm a regular.
They may not have told me yet, but I know
it's going to be true. I am manifesting that, and
you did. It came to fruition and then it lasted
for three years. So for you, this was I mean,
it was so much more than than it was for
(31:41):
me rolling into work crazy right, crazy, so annoying crazy.
I remember the first episode, very first episode I had,
and I just had one little line. It was just
kind of introducing me, and I said it was called
reality World and boil meat reality or something. When I'm
(32:04):
setting a couple of desk and I had one line
like a duck cory or something, but you guys were
so you guys were the typical teenagers, I mean, and
I think at that point that year that was kind
of the beginning of everybody as you guys teenagers, and
I saw going through this kind of I've got to
be me stage and everything, and you guys were really
(32:26):
close knit, and I think you were really my perception
was that you were really confused about me because I'm older,
but I'm not older, and I can't really fit in
your group. So my I guess my first perceptive of
you on that I kind of thought you guys were
snarsally makes I honestly thought you were really really privileged
(32:51):
kids that didn't know you were you know, that didn't
know and I, you know, I'm twenty eight. That's not
old like I'm supposed to know everything. I think the
phase I was going through is twenty eight was more like,
I think I know everything. I've really got it together.
I've got these kids in my career in Dada and
these kids, you know. It was more out of my attitude,
(33:13):
So anything you did to feed that would would um
kind of fuel that for me. But honestly, in the
back of my mind, I sometimes I would think it
wouldn't be really cool to just be their age and
be able to go Like I remember one time you
guys were going somewhere after work and all together, and
I was like, I can't go with them because I
have to like go, which is great, but you know,
(33:38):
but it was weird because it was like I really
did relate to you because you guys were very adult
like um kids, and I really did relate to on
a lot of levels. But then there was always a
line that was cross, like, oh, we're gonna go, can't
do something crazy with our friends. Writer had this new
car and he was dating downtown and everybody, and I'm like, okay,
I'm gonna go change diapers and yeah, and you. I mean,
(34:01):
that's that's the thing that was. But that's the thing
that was so strange is that you and I were
closer in age. We still weren't super cool. I mean,
we're closer in age, but we never worked together. We
didn't like we never were I think we were episodes.
I mean you had been there forever before you and
I were ever on screen together. So we always talk
about the two boy meets worlds where it's like I
didn't get a chance to get to know you on
(34:22):
a personal level kind of at all. And when I
go back, there's people like, now that we've started this podcast,
people will send us stuff like they're sending us old
T G. I F clips and stuff like that. And
there are certain clips they're sending where I just think
I am so cool, Like you can tell these things
where it's like I am the coolest guy in the world.
I don't want to listen to And I look back
(34:42):
at it now and you're just like, oh my god.
The arrogance of youth. It is just so horrifying. So
that couple with not knowing you at all. I mean,
we didn't become friends until you were there. For like,
we didn't dislike each other, we just didn't know each other.
So it was so weird to have the two boy
to worlds where we just were yeah, yeah, Well, I
(35:04):
think honestly, to a certain degree, I'm going to say this,
I think we all could have, but this doesn't really
work in this kind of work environment or what they do.
I think they were powers in play that be that
kind of made us all words are said dropped here
and there to make us all competitive with each other
so that we will give stronger performances. You know, certain
(35:28):
powers played us against one another and had been for years. Frankly,
so I think at times my relationship, which you did,
suffer because of that, and because I was really really
competitive at the time. I just I just wanted everything
all at once, and I went for it. You know.
But you'd also been we were we were the kind
of kids a lot of us had started working at
(35:49):
a very young age. We were lucky to be on
this show. You had been like the New York actress,
fighting and scrapping, and now you're out here away from
your kids for a while, fighting and scrapping to get
a job. So again, Daniel's right. We came at this
from I think your word is exactly right. Privilege just
a place of privilege, and then you throw on fame
and money when you're in your teenage years, and it
(36:11):
just takes it to a whole another levels. I think
it's probably a pretty accurate term for us. When I
thought you were taking it for granted, and I thought
that there were times like when you guys were really
needed space to play and stuff. I just came from
like it's such a serious place, like we've got to
get this job done in the work and I've I've
(36:32):
waited so long to get here, and you know, so
I just wasn't a total different headspace. And but what
I think what's more important for me over the years
is to be to realize that life is not fair
and not everybody had to do a scrape up from
the bottom to get up. Everybody's journey is different and
(36:52):
I and I have to respect. As much as I
want you to respect my journey, I have to respect
your journey, especially now that we're older, and you know,
it just is what it is. It doesn't It doesn't
help me to to look at you guys and be like, oh, well,
she just had a podet commercial and made it. You
know what. Our relationship, I actually enjoyed being friends with
(37:13):
Danielle way more than that little stigma that people tend
to hang on, you know. And also, let's just get real,
I'm a black actress. I mean, there's not There was
a great sweet time in the nineties when they were
using us to build up the up N and they
were using us to build up Fox Network, and it
ended and I caught a sweet spot in that time,
and um, it was amazing to be able to to
(37:36):
to hop on your show. It's it's just they're just
are weren't a lot of opportunities. They were very farmed
into a narrow path. We mentioned a bunch of the
shows that you had done before Boy Meets World, and
almost all of them, maybe all of them were entirely
(37:58):
black casts. Yeah, and then you come onto Boy Meets World,
which we have acknowledged her multiple times is the whitest
white cast and almost an exclusively white crew. There was
one lighting guy. Okay, well, and there's one lighting guy.
(38:21):
Because what was that like for you? I mean, you were,
like you said, it was very You were very comfortable
in that way because that was very much how you
grew up. But but still, what was that experience like
for you? It all right, it was comfortable for me
because of course my upbringing. But it also took a
lot of biting my tongue too, especially okay, when we
(38:45):
weren't filming, Okay, and everyone or when we were filming
and everyone would be back around that table at craft Services.
You know, that's where the real party was. So that's
when I when I wasn't filming and I'm kneeling around,
there's is especially on tape of nights. That's what I
would hear certain things or conversations people would say, and
I'd be and I'd have to go home and I would,
(39:07):
you know, really tell my husband at the time, I
can't believe they just said that. Like one mom, I'm
not gonna say too. It was at the time they
had another little TV that would have the news and
then they'd have the show. So one mom it was
voting time in California and they had some prop for
the Indians to get something. So one mom of one
of the best ever said, um, we don't know all
(39:29):
these Indians. I damn playing, you know. So it was
a lot of stuff like that. Would sometimes not a
lot what would happen, and I'd be like, think, though
I really had nobody to back me to say anything,
you know, or because she was kind of saying, it's everybody.
Anybody could have come in and said anything, you know.
(39:49):
So sometimes things or some sons I would just just
and I would just understand that some of our experiences
were not the same and our belief systems were not
the same. So it only really came into play when
people would speak their political issues on the set because
The reality is is you don't have to know anything
(40:12):
about me. You don't have to know anything about my
culture to get ahead in America. UM. I was taught
at a young age by my grandmother who was in
the working force and in the in the army, and
she was a just a great woman, and she always
worked in the white world. And we have to know
about you, we have to know how to get along
(40:32):
with you. UM. I have family members, you know, from Philly,
who if I brought them into a room with a
bunch of white people, they were just walked right out
the door because they wouldn't know really how to relate
to I. Really, I do want to thank my grandmother
for giving me that education, making me go to those
(40:55):
schools to be able to, um, get ahead, and that
then that part of society which is important to any
black and marriage to be able to achieve we have
to be able to compete, um with the masses. So um,
the feeling I always was watching, I always was taking
on my grandma, which she would say in the workplace,
(41:15):
So that meant biting my tongue a lot. It wasn't
that wasn't for me to get into every conversation I
want to say though, because Trina, you're you're talking right
now for sure about times where you bit your tongue,
and I know that that had to happen, but I
also there was very specifically a time that you didn't
bite your tongue and it was with a conversation that
you had with Will. And I want you guys to
talk about it because I bring it up only because
(41:38):
it is such an important moment in Will's life, specifically
that he has given you credit for over and over
again as being somebody who has changed his life. And
so why don't you guys talk just very briefly. We
have been in the news for this. It's been we
have talked about it ad nauseum, so we do not
want to spend a lot of time on it, but
I do want you guys to touch on it. Yeah,
we can touch on it, but it's Trina and I
(42:00):
have have been through this now a number of times.
So can you please tell the story so that we
can Here's how Here's how I remember, Here's how I
remember the story, and and and trying to correct me
if I'm wrong, writer was there as well, but here's
how I remember the story. So we used to always
make fun of each other on the set. That was
like our thing. I saw you come out of the
(42:23):
dressing room in a big red head scarf. In my head,
I attached no cultural significance to that whatsoever. I saw
a person who I thought was my friend but didn't
know all that well wearing a big red hat. It
was comfortable and you know enough, but you and I
still hadn't worked together a ton. But I was like,
(42:45):
you're part of the cast, so that means gonna make
fun of you the same way and make fun So
I thought, gonna make fun of her red hat. That's
as far as my dumbass, privileged mind saw it. And
so right before I walked on for my part, I
walked by and went love your syrup, and walked onto
the set, thinking boom Zing just got her for her hat.
(43:06):
I heard Rider laughing like it was like, hey, that's
what it was then exactly. But then so we finished this,
We finished the scene, and you came up to me
and you're like, that was not that was not okay,
And I was like what, I had no idea what
you were talking about. It's like what And you went that,
referring to me as Anthrew. Mima was like, oh my god,
I assumed that was like I remember saying this to you.
(43:28):
I was like, I assumed that was like you calling
me the jolly green giant and you're like, no, no,
that's not the same thing at all. And you explained
to me, of course I had no idea. Especially I'm
not trying to you never use the time as an excuse,
but the mid nineties, I had no idea the cultural
significance of the Anthrew being so surrounded by mostly, if
(43:53):
not all, white people. All I've never heard that. I
had no idea. So I was and I've used this
word about other things, but mortified because the last thing
you want to think is you're part of the problem,
Like your ignorance is part of the problem. I had
no idea. I was like in my head, I was going,
I mean, I made fun of her because of her hat.
That's all I was trying to do. Like what what
(44:15):
just happened? And I remember you very patiently explaining to
me why I was an idiot, and we hugged and
walked away. But I was shaken. I felt really small, likeluse,
could you not think about it? You're on the white
set with all the white people and oh, of course yeah,
(44:37):
and I was playing I was the nineteen or whatever.
I'm playing the joke like and and so you walked away,
and I remember like literally shaking, and then Rider and
I started talking, and it's a conversation that he and
I have had a hundred and fifty times since because
it literally changed my life. Where that moment was the
moment where I was like, you can't just say stuff.
(45:00):
You can't just throw things out there because you think
it's funny. But ah and walk away. You're you're hurting.
You could be hurting people. You could legitimately be hurting
people because you think it's funny. So what I actually
did is I asked people I knew. I just kept
telling friends and family the story and and they were like,
now it doesn't sound RACI, it just sounds really dumb.
(45:23):
Then literally, that was the feedback that I kept getting.
I didn't know. Yah, this is the thing. Will you
become part of the issue nowadays when you have to
move in spaces with people of color and you don't
really have to, you don't have to buy right, but
it would behieve you by right to learn about them
(45:44):
as much as you can. You know, you didn't ask
to back then, nor were you told to, nor were
you didn't affect your check nothing, you know what I'm saying.
The real tragedy in in all of it is the
years that went by that we First of all, we
didn't talk about it because because I really kept did
you know, because I think that also because like when
you said, how was it being in such a white show,
(46:06):
and I said, it was a lot of mouth shutting,
So you gotta think. I think by time that happened,
maybe we were second season or end of the first season,
so I really call a lot it happened, you know,
little things right right. It may have been the end
of the sixth season. Yeah, yeah, I don't know. It
(46:27):
flusters me to this day that I that I said
something like that to you out of such ignorance, and
I did apologize at the time, and then I apologized
in the letter that I wrote you because I was like,
oh my god, I can't believe that that this is
still going on because I thought we were we were
so cool. And then it's like, well, no, of course
it's still gonna matter. I mean, it's it's I said
something stupid and hollywand Hollywood doesn't do well for trust issues,
(46:51):
you know. And then of course the press. Yeah, the
press takes it and does what they want to do.
That's something I just want to do say. I did
not and this is just for me to say in general.
When I was you know, Matt Matt saying on Twitter, hand,
I didn't like this, and I didn't like this, and
you know, for me, it really was a matter of
I was frustrated. I felt that on my respect level
(47:13):
was not um appreciated, not that, and and and people
come in and make comments, Oh you you're you think
I don't know people people diminished what I think? What
was my bar of of respect? Okay? And I do
want to I do want to say this, Okay, and this,
And I don't want to come off arrogant saying this
(47:33):
or anything. It's just just about how I view my
placement in the show. Okay. You guys had a phenomenal
show from day one, cast chemistry, you had your first season,
you worked. I mean, this show is such a great,
amazing team effort. You know. Um, when I came on
the show, I did my first season. Um, halfway through
(47:54):
the first season, are are maybe the second season. I'm
not sure actually, but I asked Michael Jacobs, I said,
can I the show which featured me, um and something
about my character. I actually asked for those two shows
that were Angela's Men and Angela's Ashes. So um, when
the first show was shot, okay, and when the show
(48:16):
when we were um doing every week, we had Nielsen's ratings.
They came out every Wednesday. Okay. So the week before
that show aired, Angela's Men, Boy Meat's World was number
fifty two okay in the ratings. I'll never forget this.
When they aired Angela's Men, a great team effort. You
(48:38):
You were amazing will in that effort. Um. I think
the fact that they had aired a show that was
me with of me that brought in a whole new audience. Okay.
The ratings jumped from seventeen on that show, from fifty
two to seventeen. Am I saying that's all me and
the No, it's not like that. But at the time
(48:59):
I knew at that met that show had everything to
do not only with the up jump of ratings, but
also with the show being we were picked up two
weeks after that ware. Everyone thought we were going to
be canceled. About two weeks after that, we were canceled.
So lie thing is is everybody did their part, but
you can't deny that there was an audience that I
brought in that helped Jump to To give it another way,
(49:23):
usually when when cast members are added, it's called jump
the shark. Then there's the show's going down. You know,
I'm talk about will when you don't start, you know, yeah,
and that's Boy Meets World always. Um, it was was
not inclusive to its own peril. And like I mean,
we were we were a hit show obviously in certain regards,
(49:46):
but we also we followed family Matters and hanging Mr
Cooper was after we were in a huge like a
predominantly black block, betting that that audience in any way
and Eily Matters had better ratings than it was, so stupid,
you know, look in retrospect, and it was you know,
(50:08):
I don't think it was. I don't think it was
a consciously racist effort. But obviously there was an unconscious
bias on our show, you know, where we were completely like, well,
let's just right show, you know, in the same way
that our show didn't didn't have like great female characters.
For so long or didn't have you know, like we
talked about Betsy Randall not having like much of a
(50:29):
part because you know, so I mean, I you know,
we were limited by our worldview and so much so
like and I think, yeah, by the time they finally
brought you onto the show train and that was like
three years too late, you know, five years Alex Dessert,
you know, Alex Desert Alex, and they did nothing with him,
Like it was the most like, uh, you know, you
(50:52):
talk about a token race racial character, like and so creative,
least brilliant, and yeah, when you go and then he
went on to Becker and he and he crushed it
on Becker for years and years and years. Um no,
But just to close out our conversation, Tree, now you
(51:14):
know I love you, I I really do. You absolutely
changed my life for the better. You've really made me
a better person. And yeah, I just want I want
to say one thing also in closing, and that I
never said in the press that I had raised They
always say these extreme racist moments. It was one moment
where you said the syrup thing. I got mad. But
I don't count that as my entire experience on this show.
(51:38):
And I'm not saying this to give you a break,
because I'm kind of damn if I do or damn divide.
I love you, you know. I'm not trying to be
like but it's more like that's not my entire experience
on the show. You guys are not. It's not a
racial issue. It's more of a trust friendship at the
time where we were and and and people and you
guys kind of being snot kids and ship. It's pure
(52:01):
ignorance it was that I was back then, you know.
I would just also like to say two in closing
for this conversation because I know it is so important
to both of you that you you guys are both
over this conversation because everyone else wants to everyone wants
to keep about everybody else to be okay. I want
(52:34):
to jump back into okay. The conversation this is we
keep talking about race, but it's so important in in
in context of the show. I want to talk about
how you and writer, what the conversations were between the
two of you, and whether or not those conversations included
the writers or whether the writers talked about it with
you guys, whether or not to acknowledge the fact that
(52:54):
Angela and Sean were in an interracial relationship. Okay, this
is because my memory is not the great atis on this,
but what I did parts that do come to me
is I do remember maybe saying to Michael something like,
don't you think we should talk about this? But his
stance was like, we're not gonna talk about it. We're
not gonna talk about We're not gonna He was solid
on that. UM. I was very confused at the time
(53:18):
about whether to talk about it or not. I had to.
I had two realms of thinking, my job and mankind.
You know, so not too much, not too much of
a weight on your shoulder. I UM. At the time,
(53:38):
I'm gonna be honest, I kind of went with my job.
So I what I what had happened was is on
my end, Michael set me up and my husband at
the time with a publicist. You know, he had set
me up with the publicist. But they got together with
my publicist, Dick Gutman at the time, and they went
to the Daily News and they had me write this
whole article about why it's so great that we don't
(53:59):
mention um any color at all. It was in the
New York Times. You can look it up and how
it's creating its color by well. The truth is I
didn't really write that article, and my husband and the
publicist wrote it, and I just wanted to get upset.
I had to see the baby, and when I read it,
I kind of felt like, you know, I just can't
take this on right now. I didn't want to take
it on, and it wasn't really totally my organic view,
(54:24):
I do think, and funny enough, this is what why
you learned to You just say what you need to say.
Funny enough of rebuttal was written to The Daily News
by Lorraine Tousant, who said, no, I do not a
very very famous and very distinguished actress, Lorenejo songs and um,
she said, no, you must acknowledge that these are two
(54:47):
two different races getting together. It's very serious. It's it's
for all of her very good reasons. And I read
what she said, I actually kind of agreed with her.
But I was twenty six or seven at the time. Um,
I just had so much of my shoulders. I was like,
just let them run with it, and it seemed to
be working. And then then there another end of that
I want to say real quickly, is I get tired.
(55:07):
Um and most every black actor will tell you this,
from Sydney Potier um on to to to all of us.
Sometimes we just don't want the weight of having to
be always take on the black thing with I'm an actor.
I'm an actor. I was like, well, I felt kind
of free for a minute, like I don't have to
be just carry the weight of on the black girl
(55:29):
on the show, you know, as Yeah, I'm just I'm
moving and grooving like everybody else on normal. So that
help good, that aspect of it. But in reality, no,
that's not if you're really trying to relate to people,
and I am trying to help people. People needed to
talk about it, you know. So what hider with you? Writer?
(55:51):
Did you say something to Michael or something like? I mean,
I just remember I remember being very conflicted about it.
I remember I remember you and me personally being conflicted
about it, and I remember having conversations constantly about like
why don't we just references because I think I think
personally you you were very um proud of and expressive
(56:16):
of your black identity. Uh and and that was like
a part of you. I remember you always coming conversations
with me about your life and how you grew up.
And for me, just like it was always like, uh,
this is different, you know, this is this is this
person had a different experience than me, and I had
a different you know, even though we had the hippie
school thing apparently in the background for the most part,
(56:39):
I remember loving the difference and and recognized it, Oh
treats experience not only in real life, but on this
set right now is very different, and I loved it.
I loved being included in that. Like you and I
bonded very quickly. And I just remember, like by by
like eighteen and nineteen, being like, ohren is like a
(57:00):
good friend and this is a real like I'm learning
a lot, and this is an exposure to something that like.
And I remember you and I having conversations where you
would sort of be like, can you believe that this
happening in our set? Did you see that? And I
was made aware of things that I wouldn't have been otherwise,
do you know what I mean? And so I think
for me, I felt I but at the charitable reading
(57:22):
about Boy Meets World at the time is that we
were in the nineties MULTICULTI positive moment where uh it
was It was this idealism of color blindness, right, so
we're going to we're not going to reference race on
the show because that's the ideal, is that everybody's color
blind and we don't see differences, and that's gonna like
(57:43):
on a kids show, being a model for people. And
I think there's maybe some truth that I do think
that there's there are people that have have said to
me that that was good, um, and I think that's like,
but I also think that was an easy choice. I
think it's easy and and and it also can read
to black people as we don't like when people say
(58:04):
I don't see color, I don't see color. And when
I talked to cour see color. You know what I'm saying,
it's there, I see your color. We just can we
just respect it. We can even laugh and make jokes,
but we just don't disrespect or do mean and we
definitely don't replay, you know, the negative aspects of our
of our color differences. Really, it was an offshoot, though,
(58:25):
of what the success of the Cosby Show, and you know,
Cosby's whole thing was, we're not going to reference race.
The reality there, though, is you have an entirely all
black cast you probably have black writing staff, you know,
so like for us to compare ourselves to that sort
of post racial ideal was and always was, and in
(58:47):
retrospect like it was an easy out. It was an
easy out for our writing staff, It was an easy
out for our white actors. It was an easy out
for all of us. And I mean, you know, I
didn't know that about the article. I remember you writing
the article, or I remember reading your article and just
being proud that it was supportive of of us and
sort of getting acknowledgment of a job, okay, article being honest,
(59:11):
you know. So if I had to do it over
and I could take my real, real stance of hindsight
and everything, I would have definitely said I would have
wrote an opposite article, and I would have pushed more
for us to have at least more jokes about the
differences or and it would have been cool to have
(59:32):
an episode about you know, maybe you come to my
house and the food is different, or this is different exactly,
and was just treated as if she were she was
in white face. Can I tell you something I always
on the show. You know, this is my normal speaking voice, okay,
but sometimes from coming from black sitcoms. I always had
(59:53):
to have like a black meter so so so I
always when my black meter was probably a down to
about it too, you know. And I remember one time
when I was doing a Angela's Ashes episode sometow my
my black meter had slipped up and I was appy
about about a nine right. Michael comes over to me
and his note was, hey, TRAINA just turned down the
Delma Hopkins about eight notches. And I know exactly what
(01:00:15):
you were talking about. And you know, there's just so
many things you guys are so lucky you didn't have
to think about. So when I could, I didn't. Sometimes
it was too much and I just threw it. I
threw it away at the time, and I'm glad. I
think I think the majority of people in comments on
social media is say that they're cool with it not
(01:00:37):
being mentioned. But I do say those are predominantly white
people into racial couples wanted to be talked. I wish
you had said a little bit more. I wish you
had said it. And then there are a lot of
black people who kind of like it, like not mentioned,
you know, to they're as it was. So for a
certain subset of people, it's always gonna be like, wouldn't
(01:00:59):
it be nice if if two people could just love
each other, you know, regardless of race and not have
to acknowledge it. I think the reality is it's unavoidable,
and it's kind of but you know, they're still they're
still doing that today though. I mean ships Creak is
like that where they kind of they he talks about
that were invented world where you know the fact that
he's bisexual or there's they're the kind of being gay
(01:01:22):
is totally accepted to the point where it's never mentioned.
He's like, that's how I wanted to do it, because
that's what the town I wanted to live in, where
it's like it just doesn't matter, you know. Can I
tell you every interracial couple I see on TV after us,
I always say they copied us. They copied us everyone
they were or not the first for teens, I think
(01:01:43):
so in General Hospital that looks they use my name
for the character Trina, and it would just like us.
And I know, you know, you talked about you talked
about on the Internet and and feeling like there are
a lot of people who disrespect you and lower the
bar for know, first of all, that's the Internet is
just the worst, sometimes the worst place ever. But when
(01:02:05):
I tell you the amount of comments and emails we
get about how important you are to our show, to them,
how important your relationship with Sean is, how much me
how much Like I knew it was an important aspect
of our show, but I am not going to lie
(01:02:26):
that it. It is shocking the amount of people who
reach out and say, Trina, Trina, Trina, Trina, Trina, I
gotta I gotta show you something. Okay, you are so beloved. Okay,
this is something a fan made me. I've kept it
over here, scrap book. It's a full scrap of Oh
(01:02:50):
my gosh, it's just like a lot. Okay, this is
how it Because I have an age in a single picture,
You have an age that possible. That is amazing. I mean,
it's just it's it's amazing. I mean, we're actually relevant
(01:03:11):
now because because of the cliffhangers, you know, the whole
thing Sean and Angela, though, is funny because people keep
saying I wish they had ended up together. They should
have been endgame. I am so glad they weren't end
game because now everybody talks about it. For twenty years nice. Nice,
(01:03:37):
I actually do want to ask you about that you
mentioned asking for the episodes that the two back to
back episodes, Angela's Men and Angela's Ashes. We have heard
so many times how upset people are that you were
not in our series finale. Okay, I got really frankly
about that. Yes, because we don't we don't ground we
(01:03:59):
have not covered okay, because we don't get that all right.
I was told in a kind of a weird, offhanded
way by a very important person that you guys all
went to Michael Jacobs and you said, we don't want
her in the last episode. What she's she's somehow taking
(01:04:19):
our light was the gist of it, and we don't
want her in the last episode. Wow. Oh yeah, Oh
my god. So I was told that after I shot
what was the what was the show before the last episode?
The show before the last episode was called I think
(01:04:40):
it was Angela's Ashes. Yeah, when I left, Okay, So
I when Michael announced to me, oh, we're gonna do
another show on Angela, I was just so happy. I
was and I'm not knowing this was gonna be the
show before the last show. And I remember after we
take the show, I had said to a person, Um,
(01:05:02):
you know, why why are you in the last show?
Because I know the last show is gonna be the
one with all the ratings and all the crying and
all the stuff. I was under the impression y'all got
together and did not want me in the last show
for some reason. I was gonna take some shine or
something like to that effect. That's what I say. There
was an element of competitivism there that really probably didn't
need to be there. That was really hurtful for Tea
(01:05:26):
for a long time. And to make it worse, you know,
people of color um tend to look into things a
little hard or sometimes so I had cousins calling me saying,
how come you one in the last episode? So they
just gave you that whole show so that you would
be distracted. It wouldn't be in the show with the
real ratings and the real thing. Several of my cousins,
my family members are telling me this, and I'm thinking,
(01:05:47):
you know what, this is strange. And then I was
hit with that particular news about it, that it was
some kind of kotata, you know, And then I liked, um,
this is a true and then I when I watched
that Lefto, which I've never really fully watched because I've
always felt funny about it and I always looked at like, well,
(01:06:07):
why is Maitland in it? That's what I was going
to say. I don't remember much of the episode except
for the class and I was about to ask That's
what I was at least not in the last scene,
obviously the last last they're in the last episode, why so, like,
why the hell would we go? Whoever you're talking about?
(01:06:29):
Not even in school with you guys? Ever? Except character?
Was Math's character moving to New York with us at
the end of Boy? I don't know because what I remember.
What I remember was that there were people not like
I did not want to do this, but I remember
that there was a conversation about the show continuing, possibly
(01:06:50):
being picked up, or a new show with those of
us who moved to New York going on and creating
like a twenty something like a spinoff that was years
later or no, years later, but they I remember there
was conversation on set that week, people being like, they're
setting up the potential for a new show with the
you know, which still excluded Trina you know. So I'm
(01:07:14):
not saying anything better. But what I'm saying that like,
and all I did, I wanted off of the show
at that point. I mean, I was very sad with
boy Needs. The world was ending, but I was I
was already going to Columbia. I was already ready to
like a rolling and like moved to New York. So
like I did not want to do that. But I
remember people talking like, oh, they're potentially ABC is potentially
setting up a spinoff show with you guys going on
(01:07:35):
to New York. But and I honestly, can we say,
for the for the record, can we say, for the record, Yeah,
we say, for the record, Trina, that never happened, not
with the happened every trading on the lives of my children.
I swear on my marriage and my wife that never
(01:07:58):
ever leave you. Oh god, oh god, in my head
for so long. No, I've never watched that show. I've
always felt like, and I'm sorry, I'm sorry you say
that's competitiveness. That's not competitiveness to me, that's like sociopathy. Oh,
(01:08:19):
this pisces me off. I'm sorry, that's like not real,
this pisses me off. This is this is next level
crazy kind of a long time. See I what do
you want him? An actress? Like we think we think,
you know, like when something happens right and you wish
you could have said something in somebody some way, but
(01:08:41):
so you go over it in your mind you're like,
I wish I hadn't said that, and I can told
him this this way. You know what I'm saying. Boyman's
world is such a big thing. It's such a big thing.
It's been such a big thing. I haven't had a
decince boy me. It's world where there's not one day
I don't hear the word. So give him. Give me
that credit that it's in my head all the time,
(01:09:02):
everywhere I go, and every now and then, maybe ten
years ago, i'd be like, I wish I had a
tall tom I did do that. It was really messed up,
And it's really messed up when you're doing that often
that's not even like for real. Yeah, And one of
one of the greatest things that's come out of all
of this, and us doing conventions together and us talking
(01:09:22):
and all of this is that all those years that
went by when boy Meats World ended, I didn't have
Traina's phone number. Again, we were in very different places
in our life we were I think the worst thing
you could say about our relationship is that we were
um friendly coworkers more than friends off off stage. And
that's what I'm saying, you know, That's what I'm saying.
(01:09:44):
We we What would we have done after work? Like
you said, you had to go home to a family.
I was driving Laurel Canyon for funzies like we had um.
But the thing that that I makes me happiest now
is that, and that is a regret of mine, is
the conversations that we had, or like you're saying, where
(01:10:06):
things build up over time, where someone told you something
that was very untrue and hurt you. And when people
know that, they can get you to feel a certain
way by playing to the competitiveness and knowing, oh, Danielle
is so checked out. She's not, she's not. They're not
going to have that conversation with each other. So I
can say this and they're never gonna know that I
(01:10:28):
said this to her. And because the silence, once it
hits your brain and then you're silent, the silence grows
and then the whole imagery of it becomes bigger than
exactly than what it really is. I would also like
to point out that that he did not do this,
at least in my opinion, in my experience, he didn't
do this to the guys. I mean, yes, it's true
that we weren't played against each other, but I won't
(01:10:50):
go so far as to say we weren't manipulated. Oh no,
that's different. Manipulated. All weren't played. It wasn't whispering one
year and then whispering another ear about something else. And
I think it goes back to Trina's point from before,
where it's everybody stay in your own lane. Nobody's going
to talk about anything. Let's stay as divided as we
possibly can. Yeah, you're just gonna stay as as in
(01:11:12):
your and nobody's going to talk about anything. And so
not only does nothing get done, but as time passes,
it festers. Yeah. You, by the way, by the time
you came to Girl Meets World, you had had fourteen
or fifteen years of believing we got together to keep
you from being in the seld. And then the interaction
you have with me is very cold. How could you
(01:11:32):
not walk away thinking she hates me? She had after me.
We have to we're always in competition. We will always
be in competition. And then when it when we finally
talked and said, okay, let's just lay it all out.
Here's what I heard, here's what I heard, here's what
I heard. And then all that stuff came up and
we had all our big therapy moments, and then we
looked at each other and we said, what a shame
(01:11:55):
we weren't able to just talk about this from the
beginning because we have wasted years. Yes, we could have
helped each other. We could have been there for you
to strategize. We could have got over on everybody. We
could have been there for each other the way we've
been there for each other through multiple hardships over the
last several years. So that, for me is the biggest
lesson and the and um and the importance of talking
(01:12:18):
and and being willing to dig deep for the same purpose,
which is growing and becoming better people and doing better
maybe a better person. You may be a better person
train all the way through trusting you, guys. I like
trusting you. It feels really good. I'm so sorry that
it's Hollwood. Well. We are so grateful that you came
(01:12:46):
to have this conversation with us today. We love you.
So much. We're going to be seeing you a bunch
over the last several months. We're gonna we're not going
to watch the episode. I was already and everything. I
had all my nose. But that's okay, we are. So
I'm wrapping this episode up. I'm gonna wrap this one up.
(01:13:06):
We'll say goodbye to you and then we'll keep you here.
But I'm gonna wrap this one up. So all right,
thank you, We thank you so much for being here.
What a wonderful conversation. Was going to stick with us
to do the recap of our next episode, which is
episode eleven, The Father Son Game, which originally aired on
December sevent so stick around for that. But um, Trina,
(01:13:29):
we can't thank you enough for being here with us.
And we love you. We love you, Trina, Thank you,
we love you all. Pod dismissed Pod Meets World as
an I Heart podcast produced and hosted by Daniel Fisher,
Wilfredell and Writer Strong. Executive producers Jensen Carpon, Amy Sugarman,
Executive in charge of production, Danielle Romo, producer and editor,
Tara sud bachh producer, The rain Verruez engineer and Boy
(01:13:52):
meets World super fan Easton Allen. Our theme song is
by Kyle Morton of Typhoon. Follow us on Instagram at
Pod Meets World Show or email us at Pod Meets
World Show at gmail dot com
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