Hugo & Nebula Awards: Best Novels discussion

As many of you know, this March we as a group will nominate works for Hugo 2019 and Retro Hugo 1944. As this is the first time we are doing it, we are yet to set the rules. For now, I suggest to try a new, more collaborative effort.

First Stage
Everyone is eligible to post their personal list (up to 5 nominations) for each category they wish to vote. In order to simplify possible change in rules to more usual one member one nomination per category set the most wanted outcome first, for example:

You like to have 3 novels, you want to nominate and if you have to choose only one you go for Novel#1, so you write:

Best novel
Novel#1
Novel#2
Novel#3

Please nominate only works you have read!

Second Stage
You read other’s list and think that it will be nice to join your lists – it is easy if you have empty categories or at least vacant places (like #4 & #5 in the example above). If you agreed on a new joint list, any of you post it and add that you are a team, listing all team members. This way we can end up with a single group list. If not, we enter

Third Stage
Which is voting, one member one vote for either lists, or if there are too many or other problems, then for works (I guess only novel/novella/novelette/short story), which are #1 in personal nomination lists.

Everyone is able to edit and update their lists before he final vote!

Here is my list
Best 2018 Novel
Children of Time by Adrian Tchaikovsky
Salvation by Peter F. Hamilton
Spinning Silver by Naomi Novik

Best 2018 Novella
Expert System's Brother by Adrian Tchaikovsky
The Freeze-Frame Revolution by Peter Watts
Artificial Condition by Martha Wells
Phoresis by Greg Egan

Best 2018 Novelette

Best 2018 Short Story
Field Biology of the Wee Fairies by Naomi Kritzer
Meat And Salt And Sparks by Rich Larson
The Independence Patch by Bryan Camp


Best 1943 Novel

Best 1943 Novella
The Little Prince by Antoine de Saint-Exupéry


Best 1943 Novelette
Mimsy Were the Borogoves by Lewis Padgett

Best 1943 Short Story


I plan to add more when I read up, esp Fredric Brown for 1943

Wasn't Children of Time published in 2015?

I'm glad to see Peter Watts on your list - I haven't got around to reading Freeze Frame yet, but he certainly deserves more recognition for some great SF.

Nick wrote: "Wasn't Children of Time published in 2015?"

Yes, but not in the USA. So, as this discussion (below the poll) suggests it is eligible as printed in 2018 in the USA

And yes, Watts is great!

Children of Time blew me away with its originality and ability to surprise the reader right up to the end. I sure hope it wins.

Yes, it was great, wasn't it?! I'm glad it's eligible!

As I read Children of Time, several times I was reminded of The Bees, by Laline Paull. Her novel takes the point of view of one bee in a hive at risk of destruction. The protagonist bee is, of course, an exceptional individual who rises to the task of change that needs to happen.

I don't read enough recent novels to have an opinion. But here are things I have an opinion on:

Best 2018 Short Story
"Aware" by C. Robert Cargill. (In Resist )

Best 2018 Graphic Novel
Moonstruck, Vol. 1: Magic to Brew by Grace Ellis
The Furnace by Prentis Rollins
Maestros, Vol. 1 by Steve Skroce

(Though "Saga" or "Monstress" will beat any of these in the polls.)

Best 2018 Related Work
Astounding: John W. Campbell, Isaac Asimov, Robert A. Heinlein, L. Ron Hubbard, and the Golden Age of Science Fiction

Best Dramatic Presentation (Long Form)
The Isle of Dogs
The Incredibles 2
Black Panther
(Haven't yet seen Into the Spiderverse, but I hear great things!)

Best Dramatic Presentation (Short Form)
"Six Short Stories About Magic" from "The Magicians"
"Bandersnatch" from "Black Mirror"

Best 1943 Novel
Ravage ("Ashes, Ashes" in English) by René Barjavel

Best 1943 Novella/Novelette/whatever (depending on word count rules)
The Little Prince by Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

Best 1943 Short Story
The Man Who Walked Through Walls by Marcel Aymé
"Mimsy Were the Borogroves" by Lewis Padgett
The Secret Miracle by Jorge Luis Borges

Best 1943 Dramatic Presentation (Long Form)
Heaven Can Wait (1943).

Best 1943 Dramatic Presentation (Short Form)
"Meshes of the Afternoon" [I don't understand it, but I keep thinking about it for 35 years, and it is influential.]

I haven't read enough to have a nomination for every category, but I can add my vote for some:

Best 2018 Novel
Children of Time by Adrian Tchaikovsky
Blackfish City by Sam J. Miller
The Sky Is Yours by Chandler Klang Smith
Space Opera by Catherynne M. Valente

Best 2018 Novella (going to agree with Oleksandr's choices here)
Expert System's Brother by Adrian Tchaikovsky
The Freeze-Frame Revolution by Peter Watts

Best 2018 Novelette
The Only Harmless Great Thing by Brooke Bolander

I'm just going to put up my choices for the 1944 retros right now and will come back later with the current choices.

Although I read quite a few short pieces and novels, I only nominate the following:

Conjure Wife which is a great short novel everyone should read. It belongs in our April lighthearted SF category. It's not really funny but quirky and still stands up well 75 years later.

The Angelic Angelworm for best short story or novelette, whichever it is

Art, guys, you decide what else should go in for the retros. But these definitely should

Kate, note that you can nominate several texts by Brown, there is no "one author per category" rule, so works like Daymare and Geezenstacks can be added (I'm yet to read them by the month's end I promise!)

Anything you nominate by Brown is ok with me. "Daymare" is not my favorite Brown by any means but still better than most so ok I will put it in the short story category, but only if the Angelic Angleworm is not a short story. I don't want him running against himself. I can't remember which one "Geezenstacks" is right now . . .

I edited my post above to put 1943 film "Heaven Can Wait".

Other SF/F/Horror/Weird films include:
Batman
Frankenstein Meets the Wolf Man
Captive Wild Woman
Revenge of the Zombies
Tarzan's Desert Mystery
Tarzan Triumphs [over the Nazis]
Willoughby's Magic Hat [short film]
Meshes of the Afternoon [surreal experimental short]
The Ape Man
The Mad Ghoul [a.k.a. Mystery of the Ghoul]
The Leopard Man
Phantom of the Opera

Ed wrote: "I edited my post above to put 1943 film "Heaven Can Wait".
"

Seeing 1943 nominations and the fact that you nominated comics/Graphic Novel, what you think about nominating 1943 plastic man - https://digitalcomicmuseum.com/previe...

Oleksandr wrote: "what you think about nominating 1943 plastic man..."

I haven't read it. I didn't think of trying any 1943 comics.

I just read "Mimzy were the Borogroves" and I like it. Certainly more interesting than the other Lewis Padgett stories from that year.

I suggest to try the Second stage as described in the first post.

@Ed, our lists don't interlink in anything but a short story. I'm ok with joining our lists if you are fine with it. I plan to read the short story you nominated.

@Kate, your 1943 suggestions are perfectly acceptable for me, but I guess you'll post 2018 nominations as well, so I'm waiting to see if we can join

@Donna, thanks for your list, I'm fine with dropping 2 novels from my list if you choose any three of four novels to join. I've read Children of Time and Blackfish City

Of course no one is forced to join their lists, everything is purely voluntarily!

With Timescape out of the way I will be finishing those 2-3 novels I wanted to read before finalizing my list.

I re-read the official rules about non-English works and found that a work can be nominated in up to 3 years: First publication in any language, First in English, First in English in USA.

So, I've added 1943 stories by Marcel Ayme, Borges, and a novel by Barjavel (though I don't _love_ that novel). (The story by Ayme was published in French in 1943. The book collection with he same name is later.)

I'm also sticking in "Six Short Stories About Magic" from the show "The Magicians". It is very impressive for the technique as well as the story. article here.

And a few films.

Oleksandr wrote: "@Ed, our lists don't interlink in anything but a short story. I'm ok with joining our lists if you are fine with it...."

That is fine with me. I might revisit my graphic novel selections, but I think I'm finished with the rest.

Does anyone have ideas for the "John W. Campbell" award for new author (author with first publication in 2017 or 2018)? It is voted on the same ballot even though it is a separate award.

I think Sue Burke's Semiosis was a debut novel. I thought it was terrific.

Cynthia wrote: "I think Sue Burke's Semiosis was a debut novel. I thought it was terrific."

It is hard to determine whether she is eligible. She has published earlier, but non necessarily "professionally" published. In any event, I'm interested in giving her a try.

Similarly, I might pick Josiah Bancroft for Senlin Ascends, but I can't be sure he is eligible.

For debut I'd add Witchmark and The Poppy War.

I'd like to add Senlin Ascends, but it was published in the Us by indy publisher in 2016 or 2017 so I'm afraid not eligible

Oleksandr wrote: "I'd like to add Senlin Ascends, but it was published in the Us by indy publisher in 2016 or 2017 so I'm afraid not eligible ..."

It isn't clear to me. The rules are complicated and not the same as Hugo rules. Yes, it was published in indy publication in 2013, but the first "professional" publication clock starts ticking when it sells 10,000 copies or makes $3000 profit. That probably didn't happen until the 2017 publication.

But I'm not really sure, and he has certainly had enough publicity now that I'm happy to let someone else get the spotlight.

Cannot get The Poppy War or Circe as the library list is too long. I have read all I think I can read. Interferences with my reading time and my time talking to you guys is picking up, and I will be out of touch from Feb 26 until the 2nd of March, plus, I am burning out from reading so many books lately. So I will list my stuff and let everything else fall where it may.

{What I am reading now removed from here and put in "What are you reading now" thread}

So here we go

Series:
Most important to me--on the basis of a Not Good book, I urge all of you to nominate The Dragonriders of Pern for Best Series. Even though the book Dragon's Code was not good, the series deserves it.

Novel:
1. The Calculating Stars
2. Record of a Spaceborn Few
3. Trail of Lightning
4. Witchmark
5. Spinning Silver


Novella: only one
Beneath the Sugar Sky

That's it. I know I have read some short stories and a couple of other short pieces but either a) I can't remember or b) I didn't like them

Ed wrote: "It isn't clear to me. The rules are complicated and not the same as Hugo rules. "

I guess we should ask him - I guess he knows if he is eligible. I'll do it on GR

Oleksandr wrote: "I guess we should ask him"

I didn't realize it at first, but the link I put above to the Cambpell award site has a list of authors who are confirmed to be eligible. Mostly for short stories.

If you recognize names there, you might want to pick them.

I hadn't really thought about the series category.

Yes, the "Pern" series was great, so that is fine. I would also pick Themis Files.

Okey, so Team #1 list (Oleksandr + Ed + Donna):

Here is our list
Best 2018 Novel
Children of Time by Adrian Tchaikovsky
Salvation by Peter F. Hamilton
Spinning Silver by Naomi Novik
Blackfish City by Sam J. Miller
The Sky Is Yours by Chandler Klang Smith

Best 2018 Novella
Expert System's Brother by Adrian Tchaikovsky
The Freeze-Frame Revolution by Peter Watts
Artificial Condition by Martha Wells
Phoresis by Greg Egan

Best 2018 Novelette
The Only Harmless Great Thing by Brooke Bolander

Best 2018 Short Story
Field Biology of the Wee Fairies by Naomi Kritzer
Meat And Salt And Sparks by Rich Larson
The Independence Patch by Bryan Camp
"Aware" by C. Robert Cargill. (In Resist )

Best 2018 Graphic Novel
Moonstruck, Vol. 1: Magic to Brew by Grace Ellis
The Furnace by Prentis Rollins
Maestros, Vol. 1 by Steve Skroce

Best 2018 Related Work
Astounding: John W. Campbell, Isaac Asimov, Robert A. Heinlein, L. Ron Hubbard, and the Golden Age of Science Fiction


Best Dramatic Presentation (Long Form)
The Isle of Dogs
The Incredibles 2
Black Panther

Best Dramatic Presentation (Short Form)
"Six Short Stories About Magic" from "The Magicians"
"Bandersnatch" from "Black Mirror"

Best 2019 Series
Themis Files by Sylvain Neuvel

Best 1943 Novel
Ravage("Ashes, Ashes" in English) by René Barjavel

Best 1943 Novella
The Little Prince by Antoine de Saint-Exupéry


Best 1943 Novelette
Mimsy Were the Borogoves by Lewis Padgett

Best 1943 Short Story
The Man Who Walked Through Walls by Marcel Aymé
The Secret Miracle by Jorge Luis Borges

Best 1943 Dramatic Presentation (Long Form)
Heaven Can Wait (1943).

Best 1943 Dramatic Presentation (Short Form)
"Meshes of the Afternoon" [I don't understand it, but I keep thinking about it for 35 years, and it is influential.]

If anyone what to join Team #1, please write. Also if Donna or Kate want to merge our lists (we now only have more choices than 5 in novels), please inform which are you ready to drop. I'm fine to keep only Children there

Oleksandr wrote: "If anyone what to join Team #1, please write. Also if Donna or Kate want to merge our lists (we now only have more choices than 5 in novels), please inform which are you ready to drop. I'm fine to ..."

I'm okay with dropping The Sky Is Yours and Space Opera.

For 1943/voted in 1944 I had (above in this thread)

Conjure Wife for novel

The Angelic Angelworm for best short story or novelette, whichever it is

Of any that I have voted for in any year, the only one I care about is The Angelic Angelworm

Did you ever read it, Z?

Donna wrote: "I'm okay with dropping The Sky Is Yours and Space Opera. ."

Right now I keep both Blackfish City and The Sky Is Yours so now all 5 nominations are filled. if we as a team decide to drop something later (to add nomination from another member), will decide which book.

Added novelette and series

Kateblue wrote: "Did you ever read it, Z? "

I guess not. I read a lot of translated SF as a teen, so I can just have another title, but probably not. I plan to by the end of the month

I may have to remove "The Man Who Walked Through Walls". Although English wikipedia says it was published in 1943, French wikipedia says the story was published in a magazine 1941, again in 1942, and finally in the book in 1943.

Oh, well! A lovely story. And what French person wouldn't have wanted to walk through walls in occupied France?

Aymé published "Les Sabines" in 1943, a story about a woman named Sabine who could divide herself into two, and then three, and then more people. Also a useful skill. But I don't feel like nominating that one.

His 1942 short story "La Carte", I would nominate if he'd just waited a year to publish it! In it, the government decrees that time will be rationed. People are only allowed to live for a certain number of days per month. Of course, people start buying and selling ration cards.

Whether he is eligible or not for the Hugo, I'm glad I remembered him and will move one of his other books that I already own higher in my to-read priority list.

I am planning to read The Glass Bead Game before the month is out, the last retro I am interested it.

With just over a week left I am planning to read only Early Riser from potential 2018 nominees.

OK, I knew I should say nothing about my shoices yet because I forgot one. So I am removing Spinning Silver and adding Planetside.

So, "final answer, Regis,"

Series:
The Dragonriders of Pern

Novel:
1. The Calculating Stars
2. Record of a Spaceborn Few
3. Planetside (oh, and it is his first novel, BTW)
4. Trail of Lightning
5. Witchmark


Novella: only one
Beneath the Sugar Sky

1943:
Novel
Conjure Wife

Novelette or short story:
The Angelic Angleworm

Done!

I just wish I could figure out some way to post The Angelic Angelworm so you could all read it. Because it has to be in the free public by now. But I'm not enough of a computer person.

Is Early Riser a contender, Art? I haven't read it yet because you guys convinced me that first US publication in 2019 would make it eligible next year.

Kateblue wrote: "I just wish I could figure out some way to post The Angelic Angelworm so you could all read it. Because it has to be in the free public by now."

I found it here:
https://en.e-lingvo.net/library_view_...

I can't confirm it is public domain, so use your own judgement.

Kate: If I remember copyright conventions correctly, works created before 1978 are usually copyrighted for the life of the author plus 50 years. Brown died in 1972, so Angelic Angleworm is probably still under copyright for another three years.

Ack. Thank you for helping with copyright issue, Antti. And thanks for finding it, Ed. Well, I will just let you all decide if you should read it.

Kateblue wrote: "Is Early Riser a contender, Art? I haven't read it yet because you guys convinced me that first US publication in 2019 would make it eligible next year."

Ah, that probably disqualifies it then. I was looking to read something by that author since you mentioned Shades of Grey, I suppose I can leave it for later then.

Kateblue wrote: "Is Early Riser a contender, Art? "

It is eligible, as per rule "Works published in 2018
for the first time anywhere"

The "for the first time in the United States in 2018" means it will be also eligible this year

Ed wrote: "Similarly, I might pick Josiah Bancroft for Senlin Ascends, but I can't be sure he is eligible. "

The author answered that it is eligible, I will gladly update to include him!

@Kate, now we have the Team #1 list and your list. We can merge them, but you have to decide, which novel should we drop and suggest the replacements. Now we intersected only for Spinning Silver (until you removed it)

I suggest to fill several of your choices to the Cambpell award, for the first novel. I guess Witchmark, Trail of Lightning and Planetside qualify, dropping them from Hugo list

yes, put those 3 on the other list. I am having wiFi problesm, so gotta get off

Kateblue wrote: "yes, put those 3 on the other list. I am having wiFi problesm, so gotta get off"

Will do. and which of the two
1. The Calculating Stars
2. Record of a Spaceborn Few

to add to Hugo list? it can be both if I drop Spinning Silver

How many people want Spinning Silver? If more than one, it should stay. Besides, it's my 6th choice.

It is really hard for me to decide between these two. I guess Record of a Spaceborn Few, as it is more "science-fictiony" even though I loved the other more

What's on the 1943 list right now? I started Gather Darkness but it's not -- how to put this -- I'm tired of apocalyptic stuff, I don't care if it was written in 1943.

Kateblue wrote: "What's on the 1943 list right now? I started Gather Darkness but it's not -- how to put this -- I'm tired of apocalyptic stuff, I don't care if it was written in 1943."

only Conjure Wife now. We don't necessary need all 5 if we don't see worthy books