True desktop experience on iPad OS

[Corefile]

It seems iPad OS will want to follow Android's model [1] so when you plug in a real monitor then it becomes an actual full desktop experience with real overlapping windows. The toy OS display server iPad OS provides today simply doesn't cut it in the real world of desktop computing.

[1] https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2024/06/googles-pixel-8-series-finally-supports-displayport/

 

[NEPOBABY]

What they show is literally what Stage Manager already does, except this looks ugly.

Please stop listening to YouTube and twitter fools. iPadOS is excellent and it's by far the most popular tablet OS and millions of people are very productive with it.

 

[gigapocket1]

What they show is literally what Stage Manager already does, except this looks ugly.

Please stop listening to YouTube and twitter fools. iPadOS is excellent and it's by far the most popular tablet OS and millions of people are very productive with it.

The script has just changed with Apple.. At one point, they got the most out of the hardware because of the efficient software.. Now Apple has some of the best hardware and we want software to take advantage of the powerful hardware... But I think its unrealistic...

 

[StoneJack]

Desktop experience of 1990s which the iPadOS can't offer now:
out of curiosity, looked through features of Mac OS 7 and 8 (Copland), released in 1991 and 1998.

MacOS 7 offered

• Aliases – small files that represent another object in the file system. Similar in concept to Unix symbolic links and Windows shortcuts, an alias in System 7 acts as a redirect to any object in the file system, such as a document, an application, a folder, a hard disk, a network share or removable medium or a printer.
• Drag and drop – document icons can be dragged with the mouse and "dropped" onto application icons to open in the targeted application. System 7.5's Drag Manager expanded the concept system-wide to include multiple data types such as text or audio data.
• Stationery, allowing users to save often-used document styles as a template. "Stationery-aware" applications create a new, untitled file containing the template data.
• Balloon Help, a widget-identification system similar to tooltips.
• AppleScript, a scripting language for automating tasks.
• AppleEvents, a new interprocess communication model for "high-level" events to be sent to applications, including support for AppleEvents over an AppleTalk network.
• Publish and Subscribe permits data "published" by one application to be imported by another.
• TrueType outline fonts, replacing bitmapped fonts and outline PostScript printer fonts. TrueType for the first time offers a single font format that scales to any size on screen and on paper.
• A newly colorized user interface, for machines that support color.
• A hierarchical Apple menu (folders within the Apple Menu Items folder would expand into submenus showing their contents. Again, based on a third party control panel; HAM by Microseeds publishing[19])
• System-wide drag & drop for text and other data (selections can be simply dragged with the mouse and dropped to their new destination, bypassing the clipboard)
• A scriptable Finder

Regarding the window and files management, the Mac system offered additional features introduced in Mac OS 8.0 include the following (just picked few features):

• Customization of system fonts and increased use of the user-set accent color.
• Pop-up context menus, accessed via ctrl-click with a one-button mouse.
• Pop-up (or tabbed) windows in the Finder.
• Spring-loaded folders (folders that open automatically when a file is positioned on the folder).
• Live scrolling.
• WindowShade widget in window titlebars (minimization of windows).
• Multithreaded Finder — file copy operations run in a separate thread and don't block the Finder UI.
• Simple Finder, an option which reduces Finder menus to basic operations, to avoid overwhelming new users.
• Relocation of the 'Help' menu from an icon at the right end of the menu bar to a standard textual menu positioned after the application's menus.
• A faster Apple Guide, featuring HTML help pages.
• Faster desktop rebuilding.

These systems were running on Motorola 68030 chips. Hardware of a typical Mac of 1992 was as follows:

Introduction Date:

September 14, 1992

Discontinued Date:

October 18, 1993

Processor Speed:

16 MHz

Processor Type:

68030

Details:

This model has a 32-bit processor. It has a 16-bit data path.

Processor Upgrade:

N/A

FPU:

None*

Details:

*This model has a proprietary internal expansion slot designed for an FPU co-processor, but Apple never released one.

System Bus Speed:

16 MHz

Cache Bus Speed:

N/A

ROM Type:

Macintosh ROM

ROM Size:

512k

L1 Cache:

0.5k

L2 Cache:

N/A

RAM Type:

30-pin SIMM

Min. RAM Speed:

100 ns

Standard RAM:

2 MB

Maximum RAM:

10 MB

Details:

N/A

And yes, these Macs with such an weak hardware (2 MB of RAM on CPU with 16 MHz speed) run MacOS with computing functions, which are STILL are not available on iPad Pros M4. How much Apple regressed in last decades so thats its latest OS for tablets with most powerful ARM CPUs can't run what Macs of 1992 could do easily??

 

[mlayer]

That was pre-Jobs-return-to-Apple, which was almost entirely focused on the desktop paradigm. There were experiments like Newton, eWorld, and Pippin that never amounted to much. I had a PowerMac 7200 and a UMAX clone, which were both neat machines that weren't fully ready to be robust internet clients due to Apple surrendering the browser market. Apple was a company that spent more time circling the wagons than fully exploring new technologies, especially because Newton-Mac integration wasn't particularly tight thanks to limited hardware. When Jobs returned many of the extra goodies of System 7/8/9 were culled in favor of a push towards the internet, and eventually mobile. 30 years wrought a lot of change, especially in philosophies. I spent much of the 90's working in desktop publishing, which is now an afterthought. I'm just glad that Apple survived to get to the point of thriving.

 

[throAU]

Desktop experience of 1990s which the iPadOS can't offer now:
out of curiosity, looked through features of Mac OS 7 and 8 (Copland), released in 1991 and 1998.

few of those things are actually relevant, and macOS 7 did not offer high performance video processing, 3d, dolby surround, HDR video processing, etc.

horses for courses, just try connecting a macOS 7 machine to today's internet 🤷‍♂️

 

[StoneJack]

few of those things are actually relevant, and macOS 7 did not offer high performance video processing, 3d, dolby surround, HDR video processing, etc.

horses for courses, just try connecting a macOS 7 machine to today's internet 🤷‍♂️

I am focused mostly on desktop, file management and window management and Mac OS 7 is unsurpassed by today's iPad Pro and iPadOS, which is incredible and just shows overall lack of understanding where iPadOS is lacking most. Hint: it is not video or HDR. It is basic thing like file and windows management.

 

[NEPOBABY]

I am focused mostly on desktop, file management and window management and Mac OS 7 is unsurpassed by today's iPad Pro and iPadOS, which is incredible and just shows overall lack of understanding where iPadOS is lacking most. Hint: it is not video or HDR. It is basic thing like file and windows management.

Mac OS 7 would literally crash if you tried to copy multiple items at the same time and the window management was non-existent. You could only open a single instance of folder's window, the windows were wireframes when you moved them around, no column view, no high res previews, no quicklook, etc.

As always it looks like people criticizing iPadOS are being disingenuous.

Focus on what features you want to add to the file manager instead of making bad comparisons.

 

[StoneJack]

Mac OS 7 would literally crash if you tried to copy multiple items at the same time and the window management was non-existent. You could only open a single instance of folder's window, the windows were wireframes when you moved them around, no column view, no high res previews, no quicklook, etc.

First, it is not true, but even if it were true, ipados is even worse than that. So focus on features iPadOS missing instead of making wrong comparisons.

 

[NEPOBABY]

First, it is not true, but even if it were true, ipados is even worse than that. So focus on features iPadOS missing instead of making wrong comparisons.

Don't tell me what's true and what's not true when you compared a single threaded spatial Finder that was crash prone and only used cooperative multitasking to an OS that uses preemptive multi tasking and massive multi threading.

 

[LvO92]

Quick questions: What's iPadOS like on a monitor? Can it replace macOS?

 

[Apple_Robert]

Quick questions: What's iPadOS like on a monitor? Can it replace macOS?

iPadOS on a monitor is going to be a bigger screen of ipadOS. Whether or not your iPad (by itself) can become your main use or only device is dependent on your daily workflow and the apps used.

 

[jimimac71]

What they show is literally what Stage Manager already does, except this looks ugly.

Please stop listening to YouTube and twitter fools. iPadOS is excellent and it's by far the most popular tablet OS and millions of people are very productive with it.

I wish to own just ONE do everything device.
While that isn't the norm, iPad can't be my only product.
I have a Windows PC, iPad and Android tablet.
A real flip phone.
I live in fire country and require a battery device for evacuation reasons.
So for me, a laptop. The MBA is quite costly but can also run iPad apps.

 

[xxFoxtail]

I wish to own just ONE do everything device.
While that isn't the norm, iPad can't be my only product.
I have a Windows PC, iPad and Android tablet.
A real flip phone.
I live in fire country and require a battery device for evacuation reasons.
So for me, a laptop. The MBA is quite costly but can also run iPad apps.

I’ve been experimenting on and off using my iPhone 14 Pro as my one device to do everything with. Docked with an external keyboard and sometimes a mouse for spreadsheets, it does everything I use my Macbook for, just with a smaller screen.

For personal work, it’s my journal, health log, camera, photo editor, CarPlay, banking device, ebooks, etc. Professional, I work with spreadsheets, PDFs, and word documents. All with no issues.

The one thing I wish it had was proper external display support and maybe Pencil support. A jailbroken iPhone can handle external display and stage manager just fine. If I could do this officially, it would be the perfect device for me.

I know OP argues that it’d still be a toy, but every last bit of my work could be done from my iPhone, it’d be nice to have my apps side by side together on the larger screen. I don’t need a proper desktop OS for any of it, it’s overkill.

 

[jimimac71]

An iPhone or iPad Mini is not an option for my eyesight.
Without a desktop browser, I cannot export my bookmarks.
I do that once a month. I do want a desktop.
In my case, either a mini + iPad or an MBA.
I get along with Android well but iPad really is best.

 

[stocklen]

It seems iPad OS will want to follow Android's model [1] so when you plug in a real monitor then it becomes an actual full desktop experience with real overlapping windows. The toy OS display server iPad OS provides today simply doesn't cut it in the real world of desktop computing.

[1] https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2024/06/googles-pixel-8-series-finally-supports-displayport/

oooh, a real monitor....
what happens if you plug in a fake one?


I do wish people would stop banging on about making iPadOS MacOS.
Get a MacBook and plug that into a real monitor and be amazed at the results

 

[Reverend Benny]

It seems iPad OS will want to follow Android's model [1] so when you plug in a real monitor then it becomes an actual full desktop experience with real overlapping windows. The toy OS display server iPad OS provides today simply doesn't cut it in the real world of desktop computing.

[1] https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2024/06/googles-pixel-8-series-finally-supports-displayport/

I can absolutely see this developing further and that we will see this on the iPhone fairly soon.
The Samsung S models does this fairly well and the Windows Phone did it very well.

I'm almost willing to bet that iOS 19 will offer stage manager on the iPhone similar style as iPad OS.

Would be nice when you arrive at the office to just dock the phone and continue to work with a mouse and keyboard and being able to use the camera on the phone in Teams meetings and similar.

 

[StoneJack]

I can absolutely see this developing further and that we will see this on the iPhone fairly soon.
The Samsung S models does this fairly well and the Windows Phone did it very well.

I'm almost willing to bet that iOS 19 will offer stage manager on the iPhone similar style as iPad OS.

Would be nice when you arrive at the office to just dock the phone and continue to work with a mouse and keyboard and being able to use the camera on the phone in Teams meetings and similar.

ipados is not capable of anything like that

 

[LogicalApex]

No matter how you slice it and no matter how much lipstick people will put on it. The reality is the iPad has failed to usher in a new computing paradigm as Apple launched it as.

The tablet was supposed to bring us a molding of the smartphone with the computer to deliver something uniquely powerful that neither device could deliver on their own, but also one that we couldn’t yet fully see. Apple still hasn’t delivered on that promise.

So, we now have iPads with the same computing power as Macs and the same chip architecture as Macs. Allowing them to, on a technical level, run absolutely anything the Mac can. Meaning, the productivity of macOS is achievable where in the Intel days there existed arguments for technical incompatibilities. You have the iPad still occupying that sort of middle ground space between a smartphone and a laptop. Just a bit more workflow power than the smartphone, but a lot less than the laptop.

As the current trends continue it will continue to get more and more challenging for Apple to pitch both iPads and MacBooks unless they find a way to deliver on that original vision of a device that can deliver a new computing paradigm.

Especially, in the current world where people are actually looking for devices that last longer and are more focused.

For me specifically, one of my major reasons for buying my iPad Pro in 2021 was note taking during work meetings with a secondary goal of being able to use my MacBook less. Fast forward to now and I am eyeing a SuperNote A5 X2 for its superior writing feel and note taking capabilities. Combined with less distractions and longer battery life. Not to mention it is a fraction of the cost. Additionally, eInk displays reduce eye fatigue and the pens don’t need charging. I’m a software engineer so my needs aren’t the same as everyone else.

People always say Apple wants you to buy both an iPad and a MacBook, but their decisions are definitely limiting my purchase choices. I have no immediate plans to upgrade my 2018 MacBook Pro and no plans to upgrade my 2021 iPad Pro. Whenever I do decide to upgrade them then whatever device I don’t upgrade will be the end of the line for that device line from Apple unless they change stuff drastically.

If I made that choice today, I wouldn’t buy another iPad.

 

[Reverend Benny]

ipados is not capable of anything like that

What do you mean? Stage manager delivers most of what I described but its still room for making it more fluent. The window management using stagemanager is a bit clunky.
Just plug any iPad pro, M1 or later to a USB-C dock that you use with your PC laptop or Macbook and its all there.

Edit:
Ipad OS 18 and stage manager below.

 

[Reverend Benny]

Quick questions: What's iPadOS like on a monitor? Can it replace macOS?

I guess it depends on what you want to do.
I use my M1 iPad Pro docked sometimes with an external keyboard, mouse, speakers and so on and it works....alright.
Sure webbrowsing, email, Officework and so on all works fine. But its obivous that it needs a little more work to be as fluent and userfriendly as when you dock a Macbook the same way using external screen and peripherals.

One thing I do find annoying is that not all apps have proper stagemanager support, so resizing windows and so on can be a bit iffy.

But to be honest, I more than often just plug in my Windows 11 laptop to my USB-C dock and work on that device, its familiar and works better.

 

[ratspg]

First, it is not true, but even if it were true, ipados is even worse than that. So focus on features iPadOS missing instead of making wrong comparisons.

I used MacOS 7 and 7.5 And this is VERY TRUE. lol. How can you say it’s not true? You’re the only person who it didn’t happen to? It would crash ALL THE TIME. You like using a Desktop OS, so use a Desktop OS. It’s called MacOS. It’s made for use with a keyboard and a mouse. iPadOS is made for touch first, mouse and keyboard as afterthought. The device doesn’t have to morph into how you want to use a Desktop OS. Just use MacOS, stop complaining lol.
If Apple, a multi trillion dollar corporation, has a lack of understanding, then I’m sure iPad sales will tank and their stock will drop and they’ll “learn.” I just don’t believe this is the case though.

 

[StoneJack]

I used MacOS 7 and 7.5 And this is VERY TRUE. lol. How can you say it’s not true? You’re the only person who it didn’t happen to? It would crash ALL THE TIME. You like using a Desktop OS, so use a Desktop OS. It’s called MacOS. It’s made for use with a keyboard and a mouse. iPadOS is made for touch first, mouse and keyboard as afterthought. The device doesn’t have to morph into how you want to use a Desktop OS. Just use MacOS, stop complaining lol.
If Apple, a multi trillion dollar corporation, has a lack of understanding, then I’m sure iPad sales will tank and their stock will drop and they’ll “learn.” I just don’t believe this is the case though.

If you still don’t understand, it is not about mouse

 

[ratspg]

If you still don’t understand, it is not about mouse

I have a great understanding for myself. I run 3 successful businesses using an iPad Pro. It’s capable for me. I hope Apple understands you and makes it become the iPad that you need! Cheers.

 

[d3n]

Stage Manager on an external display needs some getting used to, but it's nowhere near as bad as some people want to make you believe. It's different than on Mac, but it has potential. It was bad in the early days, yes, but it improved quite much with iPadOS17 I think.

Biggest limitation for me is the Files.app on iPad. Constant freezes and hangs.

Back when I worked a corporate job at a large media house, I wish I'd have Stage Manager level multitasking on the iPad Pro. My main Mac was always busy with rendering video, so I used my personal iPad to attend calls and editing office documents. In the aftermath of Covid, for the whole day I was basically in a video call, but the iPad's multitasking couldnt activate the front camera *and** have a 2nd app open (!). Different now, at least