This Is Us: Chris Sullivan hints at Kate and Toby's painful split

On the heels of an episode that trafficked in the somber and the bittersweet — with Jack attending his mother's funeral — This Is Us kicked up its heels this week and had fun with a few romantic pairings. Miguel (Jon Huertas) talked widow Rebecca (Mandy Moore) into participating a round of speed dating; Kevin (Justin Hartley) and friend-with-onetime-benefits Cassidy (Jennifer Morrison) embarked on a cabin trip that may or may not include sex, whatever, no big deal if it happens or doesn't happen; and Nicky (Griffin Dunne) and future wife Edie (Vanessa Bell Calloway) bonded with them at the cabin.

"Heart and Soul" contained its fair share of strain and pain as well. Rebecca and young adult Kate (Hannah Zeile) had a nasty spat that resulted in some name calling and a shocking slap, and Randall (Sterling K. Brown) toed a dangerous line with Malik (Asante Blackk) when he asked him to break up with his daughter, Deja (Lyric Ross), after they pitched a Deja-graduates-early-and-moves-to-Boston plan. Meanwhile, Toby (Chris Sullivan) again diverted his return to L.A. so he could network with his boss on a not-so-modest yacht, and Kate (Chrissy Metz) held down the family fort while also informing Rebecca, whose latest PET scan was suboptimal, that she wouldn't be allowed to watch her grandchildren alone. A closing montage of Rebeca and Kate plucking the piano strings in three eras pulled the heartstrings and hit the right bittersweet notes.

Also of note: The episode was helmed by Sullivan, who becomes the latest This Is Us cast member to direct an installment. "I learned more about acting by directing one episode of television than acting in six seasons of it," he tells EW. "It blew my brain wide open. I was able to zoom out and see the Earth from an orbit that made so many things make sense that I didn't realize I didn't understand." As he comes down from the stars, let's pull up a director's chair and ask him about the big moves of "Heart and Soul" — and what lies ahead for Toby and Kate.

ENTERTAINMENT WEEKLY: The writer of the episode, Julia Brownell, said that this episode was referred to as the rom-com episode. But it also switched tones and tackled some serious parenting moments. In your eyes, what was the biggest challenge in bringing that to life?

CHRIS SULLIVAN: Balancing the swing from lighthearted rom-com into the more serious moments — I talked a lot about that with Mandy and Jon. We talked about if we can elevate this balloon as high as possible, then when it pops, it has further to fall. While always staying grounded. It was a delicate balance, and I think we've managed to strike it.

She mentioned the discussions in the writers' room surrounding Rebecca's slap and Randall's breakup request to Malik off of Deja's plan, with everyone wanting to make sure that these characters wouldn't "lose" the audience. How did that factor into your presentation of these scenes?

I think if those moments are given to the outsiders, the new Big Three — if those moments are on Toby and Beth and Miguel — you have a bigger risk of "losing" the audience. But you know, Randall and Rebecca can almost do no wrong. [Laughs] It actually gives them some freedom to really swing for the fences. It gives them opportunities for big moments, because the audience is with them.

To be clear, you're saying America kind of likes Mandy Moore and Sterling K. Brown?

I'm saying they like them more than me and Jon Huertas.

Rebecca loses her cool and slaps Kate after Kate calls her a "slut." Take us behind the filming of that moment with Mandy and Hannah.

The one thing that I talked about with the both of them is that when we get into those heated conversations, even when we say harsh things or terrible things, I think that those harsh and terrible things are actually to protect us from saying the most harmful thing. I didn't ask either one of them what that would be, but I asked them to think about what that would be, and to hold that in their minds as they were having that argument, and to kind of let it simmer underneath everything else. And when it comes down to physical violence on screen, there's just a lot of logistics involved, as far as the choreography goes, to make sure that first and foremost, everybody is safe and no one is going to accidentally get slapped, but it still looks realistic.

The third challenge is to earn it. To start the scene with a mom floating on a cloud and a confused teenager, and to end the scene with physical violence, you have approximately 90 seconds to get from point A to point B. There can be some big emotional leaps there, and it can also be exhausting for the actors to make those leaps. So you want to try to get them as quickly as possible, as early as possible, and we managed all of that.

Was it hard to restrain yourself from getting up and walking from behind the camera to shake Randall during his conversation with Malik and say, "You do not want to go down this road!"?

Yeah, but there's part of me that totally gets it, you know? Especially having spent so much time with Randall the character. And it's those things in our lives — those mistakes, those moments of pain, those moments of suffering — that eventually form us into who we are. So any of these struggles, as painful as they are in the moment, are the crucible that Malik and Deja will be forged in.

Speaking of walking down a dangerous path, Toby is busy with his job in San Francisco, a plane ride away from his family. Kate says she's okay with him not making it home as fast so he can go out on his boss' yacht, but every one of these decisions comes at a price, as Kate is left parenting two kids by herself. Will it be a thousand tiny cuts that destroys this relationship, and/or do we need to brace for one big inciting incident? And, of course, the day involving the Big Green Egg looms large…

There's always a turning point, even if there are a thousand small moments that lead to that turning point. The Big Green Egg is a symbol of a day where we arrive at that crossroads. But you can't arrive at that crossroads without taking a thousand single steps. Everything you're seeing now are these steps towards that inevitability.

How conflicted is Toby by this long-distance arrangement? Are we going to see him coming alive in his work, which may come at the cost of his relationship?

That is the balance that everyone is trying to strike — to be the most fulfilled, most fully realized version of themselves, in concert with someone else, their partner, their wife, their husband doing the same. It's very complicated and it's very tricky and it's very hard to do. There are seasons in relationships where one person is thriving and the other is struggling, and it switches, and then hopefully all along the way, each person is lifting the other up and supporting them, so that they can continue on whatever path they are walking. But Toby's loving it. Aside from being apart from his family, he is appreciated. He is thriving. He loves his job, people at his job appreciate him. The obvious worst part is that he has to be away from his family so much.

I think maybe the solution is just one more gift?

Yes. People don't realize that. It's usually just one more present.

When EW talked to Chrissy, she hinted at a big weekend that Kate and Toby have planned to help their relationship, and that even if you enter something with the best of intentions, it may not go according to plan. How would you describe that episode?

Sometimes people are just trying so hard to get a round peg into a square hole. And just because you want something to work out or just because you want something to go a certain way, that doesn't mean you just get what you want just because you want it. There has to be seismic change, and in the end it has to come from both people and it has to be synchronized in the same direction. Shaking things up with a trip and all of the stress that goes along with that is… [laughs] well, it's an uphill battle for both of 'em.

Let's go back to the Big Green Egg, which is tied to some emotional and physical trauma for Jack Jr. and reminds him of the day that Toby and Kate's marriage falls apart. What can you say about what will boil over in that episode?

How about this: When the smoke clears, the line will have been drawn.

You and Chrissy have said that you didn't discuss the impending split because it was too sad. Now that we're moving closer to these pivotal episodes, have you talked more to her about it? And have you talked to Chris Geere about it?

I don't see Chris Geere very much, because our paths haven't crossed… [affects mock-menacing tone] yet. But yeah, it's a strange predicament that Mr. Geere has found himself in, after six seasons of these characters being together, to come in at the last minute and be involved in the way that he is. Which is exciting for everybody. But yeah, Chrissy and I talked about it — our personal feelings about it and what we want to try to accomplish as actors and how we want to tell the story. You know, there's a responsibility here. This Is Us has always reflected back to its audience a manual of possible resolution to relationship issues. "Here's a way that you can screw this up, and if you screw it up this way, here's a way you can fix it." So as painful as it is to separate two beloved characters, there's a responsibility there to reflect back to the audience how to do that in a conscious and compassionate way, as best as the writing allows.

Chris Geere told us that he had his work cut out for him, going from the villain that everyone will boo to someone whom Kate will fall for. No pressure.

Yeah. Miguel's never been so happy to see a new character. [Laughs]

How much fun did you have depicting Rebecca and Miguel's speed-dating scenes, which seemed ripe for comedy?

I gotta tell you, that was one of the most fun days of shooting. On top of just getting Rebecca two glasses of Chardonnay in and throwing those lines out and seeing them change it up a bit — Mandy is so funny in that scene. Then to see the seeds of Matt [Matt Corboy] and the very beginnings of Miguel's interest in Rebecca all in one scene, and to cap it off, the guy who plays Ren [Dan Istrate] at the end of that scene is a genius. I've never seen a day player show up so ready to improvise and react and be in the scene. And every take, he gave me something completely different, a different line. It's a really great way to cap off that scene.

When Matt asks Rebecca for coffee in the middle of her speed date with Ren, you see Miguel's supportive expression change. Is he unable for the first time to really tamp down these growing feelings for her as they surface, and/or is he unaware of exactly how he feels until then?

That is the moment that he realizes. I don't think he has considered any serious feeling until that moment.

Do you remember talking to John about different ways to play that?

I don't think I had to. I don't think we talked about it that day. He knew. Jon is a master at what he does. And just in that look, you can see the beginnings of everything.

As fun and as satisfying as this episode was to direct, was it slightly bittersweet knowing you didn't get to direct a Nick-Edie love scene?

[Deadpan] We directed it. We shot it. It wasn't in the script, but Griffin insisted. And I was like, "Okay, if you guys insist on it, I'll be there." So I had notes and it was very well lit, very well shot, very tasteful. But yeah, it didn't make the episode, unfortunately…

It was an honor to direct this entire cast, but Griffin Dunne is a legend. And a hero of mine. So to even be in the same room with him, acting, directing, I'll do whatever. I'll do whatever he wants. I would drive Griffin Dunne's Uber.

What are you most looking forward to tackling in the back half of this final season?

To say I'm looking forward to being at Rebecca side when she passes is... not quite right, but it will be heartening for all of us to be together, to finish out this story in that way.

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