Talk:Halimah Yacob: Difference between revisions

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Quote: "Her Indian-Muslim father was a watchman who died when she was eight years old." Source 1: A strong advocate for workers, women and minorities, Jessica Cheam, The Straits Times, 8 Jan 2013, http://news.asiaone.com/News/Latest%2BNews/Singapore/Story/A1Story20130108-394132.html

"Notable female politicians include Dhanam Avadai, PAP Member for Moulmein ( 1965–1968), lawyer Indranee Rajah, the current Senior Minister of State, Ministry of Law and Ministry of Education, and Indian-origin politician Halimah Yacob" Source 2: 50 Years of Indian Community in Singapore, cite book |last1=Rajan |first1=Uma |editor-last=Pillai |editor-first=Gopinath |editor2-last= Kesavapany |editor2-first=Krishnasamy |title=50 Years of Indian Community in Singapore |publisher=World Scientific Publishing Co |date=June 28, 2016 |pages=107 |chapter=To Singapore with Love... |isbn=978-9-813-14058-5 |lastauthoramp=y, https://books.google.com.sg/books?id=RHfQDAAAQBAJ&pg=PA107&dq=indian+community+in+singapore+halimah+yacob&hl=en&sa=X&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=indian%20community%20in%20singapore%20halimah%20yacob&f=false

Traces of the news article that could be found on Google just months ago has mysteriously erased. Please reinstate this FACT.

Note to editors: 1) Singapore mainstream media is under total government control. 2) Halimah Yacob has indicated that she might be interested to run for the Presidential Election. 3) This year's Presidential Election is reserved for the Malays.

Jane Dawson (talk) 01:45, 19 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

i don't know for a fact if she is indian but more 3rd party article suggest she is.

http://www.thehindu.com/news/international/indianorigin-politician-to-be-singapores-first-woman-speaker/article4287674.ece

just saying it is irrational to remove fact with cited sources. even if there is dispute, the dispute should be address with opposing view then deleting the dispute as if it does not exist.

Akinkhoo (talk) 03:57, 19 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I would support putting that snippet back in, since the Google Books highlight clearly shows Halimah Yacob's name on page 107 in the list of Indian women politicians. If there is a genuine dispute with the source of that book, it should be highlighted. Same with the article on thehindu.com; of course, this could be citogenesis in action. However, given that these edits came a few years after the news page and a full year after the publication of the book, I think I can trust the book at least. More investigation is needed to confirm the veracity of the claim, of course. Icedwater (talk) 08:37, 19 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

It has been mentioned in established media that her father is Indian-Muslim and her mother is Malay.

http://www.todayonline.com/singapore/reserved-presidential-election-casts-spotlight-malayness

A strong advocate for workers, women and minorities, Thu, Jan 10, 2013, The Straits Times (link cited that has been removed has been deleted by Asiaone, but online and hard copies of the article remain) 95.213.136.44 (talk) 08:53, 19 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Can we just begin the article with "Halimah Binti Yacob (Jawi: حاليمه بنت ياچوب; born 23 August 1954) is a Singaporean politician, born to an Indian Muslim father and a Malay Muslim mother."? or to write under the "personal life" section "Halimah is born to an Indian Muslim father and a Malay Muslim mother."?

sources:

Quote: "Her Indian-Muslim father was a watchman who died when she was eight years old." from "A strong advocate for workers, women and minorities" by Jessica Cheam, The Straits Times, 10 Jan 2013, https://web.archive.org/web/20170719134856/http://www.asiaone.com/print/News/Latest%2BNews/Singapore/Story/A1Story20130108-394132.html

Quote: "She added that her father, who died when she was eight years old, was born in Singapore, and she was brought up by her Malay mother." from "More consultation needed before my decision to run for president: Halimah Yacob" by Tham Yuen-C, The Straits Times, 17 July 2017, https://web.archive.org/web/20170717160403/http://www.straitstimes.com/politics/more-consultation-needed-before-my-decision-halimah Sue (talk) 13:40, 19 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

How is this even a debate right now? She is clearly someone of Indian descent as proven by multiple sources. Anyone trying to stop the Indian descent portion is just doing so out of political bias. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.7.154.113 (talk) 13:48, 19 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I concur - the problem is the page has been locked on the "wrong" version - we can make a "Protected edit request" but this needs to have a specific wording and properly cited references - Arjayay (talk) 15:36, 19 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Why is this page protected from edits? Is the administrator being partisan and wants to whitewash the identity of Halimah's father? Kiwi8 (talk) 15:42, 19 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The page is protected from edits because an edit war was going on. An Wikipedia administrator does not take sides when locking a page. It's just unfortunate that the ax fell when the "wrong version" was live. This has to be the lamest edit war I've ever come across. Everyone on this talk page is mostly in agreement, nobody is debating about anything, and the only one "in disagreement" is the Wikipedia article itself. I can't even... (facepalm)Sue (talk) 16:21, 19 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

This kind of white-washing is being carried out on several articles as part of a subtle political campaign in Singapore to rewrite factual history. It does not help that sources deemed reliable by Wikipedia is largely under control by the government.

Quoting LKY, “Repression, Sir is a habit that grows. I am told it is like making love-it is always easier the second time! The first time there may be pangs of conscience, a sense of guilt. But once embarked on this course with constant repetition you get more and more brazen in the attack. All you have to do is to dissolve organizations and societies and banish and detain the key political workers in these societies. Then miraculously everything is tranquil on the surface. Then an intimidated press and the government-controlled radio together can regularly sing your praises, and slowly and steadily the people are made to forget the evil things that have already been done, or if these things are referred to again they're conveniently distorted and distorted with impunity, because there will be no opposition to contradict.” Jane Dawson (talk) 03:34, 20 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Let me try again. Apparently using the phrase "{{Edit fully-protected}}" will attract the attention of an administrator. I want him/her to review the decision to lock the article. {{Edit fully-protected}} Kiwi8 (talk) 04:48, 20 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Kiwi8 - Your understanding about the "edit fully protected" template is incorrect, so I have disabled the template.
If you want to ask for the protection-level of the article to be reduced, you should first ask the protecting administrator - If the protecting admin is inactive or you have already asked them you should then apply at Wikipedia:Requests for page protection#Current requests for reduction in protection level, but
As I explained above, you can make an "edit fully protected" request but you need to propose a specific wording, state where in the article it should be added, and include properly cited references (not just bare URLs), to support your proposed change(s) - Arjayay (talk) 08:50, 20 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

In this case the protecting admin was User:Slon02 so first you need to ask at User talk:Slon02 - Arjayay (talk) 08:56, 20 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the ping. I'm satisfied enough by this talk page to see there's a decent consensus. I've reduced the protection status to short-term semi-protection, which it was before I imposed full-protection.--Slon02 (talk) 23:01, 20 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the clarification and for changing the protected status to semi. Kiwi8 (talk) 07:20, 21 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The opinion here is almost unanimous. Doesn't anyone therefore think that it wasn't a legit edit war to begin with, but is actually a case of vandalism? Sue (talk) 00:16, 21 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, not to mention the circumventing of the three-revert rule by logging out. I have reported the user as a sockpuppet. 118.189.63.127 (talk) 01:16, 21 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

This is probably not considered "sock puppetry" according to Wikipedia policy. The WHOIS queries show that the IP addresses belong to Singtel or Starhub, which probably means these IP addresses were dynamically assigned by those ISPs, and are not set up by anyone as sock puppets (even if he/she is the one behind the edits done via these IP addresses). Sue (talk) 15:08, 21 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Could I request the logged-in editors here to either revert or improve on the writing? Thank you! 118.189.63.127 (talk) 01:16, 21 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I've added the content that was deleted during the war. Sue (talk) 03:03, 21 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

If the edits are backed up by reliable sources, then I don't see why they should be removed. If one thinks that it is inaccurate, then he/she should provide evidence that shows otherwise. Orangewarning (talk) 12:06, 20 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Chicatgang (talk) 07:48, 21 July 2017 (UTC)There is no evidence to the contrary presented so far. One just suspect this is partly to pre-empt any debate about her race before the presidential elections.Chicatgang (talk) 07:48, 21 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

There is no mention of any honorific on the Speaker of Parliament page. I would appreciate it if fellow editors could find one. --202.172.56.4 (talk) 18:06, 26 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Should her biography include a honorific, if at all? If so, what? 202.172.56.4 (talk) 20:52, 26 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The following should be moved to the Trade union involvement subsection:

 In recognition of her contributions, she was conferred the Berita Harian/McDonald's Achiever of the Year Award in 2001[1] and the "Her World Woman of the Year Award" in 2003.[2]

From the Berita Harian/McDonald's Achiever of the Year Award citation, Halimah is credited as "Madam Halimah Yacob, Assistant Secretary General of NTUC".

Where "Her World Woman of the Year Award" should belong to is less obvious, but this article covers more of her achievements in the labour movement than in politics itself. --202.172.56.4 (talk) 19:08, 26 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Should Halimah's awards be moved to the relevant subsection, or would there be better ways to place them? --202.172.56.4 (talk) 20:48, 26 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Should a citation be required for Halimah's contribution to the Malay Knowledge-Based Economy Advisory Committee? --202.172.56.4 (talk) 20:46, 26 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]