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“Lisa? Hi, this is Val,” I say as our Zoom call begins. “I can’t see you.” “Oh, do you want to see me?” asks a disembodied voice.
“Who wouldn’t want to see you?” In an instant, the familiar face with the pillowy lips and shag haircut jumps onto the screen. The conversation that follows—the conversation you’re about to read—is as thrillingly candid as you’d expect from a woman who has made a career of being loud and outspoken (and boldly sexual) in spite of the consistent blowback that has come her way.
Blowback: The most recent of which concerns her leaving The Real Housewives of Beverly Hills franchise after eight tumultuous years. (We’ll get to that later.) But exiting the show has been freeing for Lisa, who celebrated her 60th birthday in July. And her new freedom—which includes eschewing the responsibilities and emotional stress of reality television and enjoying a renewed commitment to staying in the moment—seems to be the overriding theme of Lisa’s aptly called sexagenarian decade. Who better to grace the cover of Cosmo’s Sex After 60 issue than this woman who has metamorphized from an 18-year-old college-dropout model to a crafty soap opera chick (‘Days of Our Lives’; ‘Melrose Place’) to a fiery reality tv star—in her 50s? Who penned a juicy book about sexuality (The Big, Fun, Sexy Sex Book) and launched a beauty line (Rinna Beauty) featuring a lip gloss meant to evoke her unmistakable pouty mouth? Who married the love of her life, Harry Hamlin, 26 years ago and raised two daughters, all the while building a following of nearly 4 million on Instagram with her wildly provocative photos? And proving that for some people, you can do it all, into your 60s and beyond?
That question mark is deliberate: Lisa’s frank immodesty and boisterous sexuality isn’t for everyone. Even so, it’s her brand, and you can’t deny that the way Lisa Rinna lives her life is a powerful reminder that our choices don’t have to diminish as we age.
Let’s dive right in and talk about your relationship with sexuality. Have you always been this open in talking about it, leaning into it?
I have not always been this in touch with my sexuality at all. I grew up very repressed, like everybody did in the ’60s. It just wasn’t something that nice girls did or talked about or flaunted, especially not in Medford, Oregon, where I was raised. You’re just a good girl, and you don’t say how you feel; you just try to be quiet. You can see how well that went for me. I rebelled, certainly after a while. But I toed the line really well for a very long time, even when I first met Harry. I was 29 and it was my Saturn Return. I remember him saying that to me and I’m like, “What the f*ck is a Saturn Return Footnote 1 ?” He tells this funny story about taking me to Tahiti after we were dating for about a year and a half, and we had this over-the-water bungalow and we were out taking photos and I was very self-conscious, if you can believe it. And he said, “Can’t you pose or something?” I was just standing there with my arms down at my sides. I think that day just opened a door and from then on, I was like, “Yes, I can do something.”
- In case, Reader, you don’t know either, it’s the equivalent of an existential crisis in which, at the end of your 20s, you reevaluate your life choices and in doing that, become an adult. It’s kind of losing your emotional virginity.
Did it have to do with his acceptance or appreciation of you, do you think?
Yeah, I do. Harry is so accepting of who I am and always has been, and so I’ve grown into that. He’s been a supportive partner this whole time, 31 years later.
That’s so gorgeous, in its own way. How has your sexual persona morphed over those decades?
Well, within those 31 years, I had children Footnote 2 , and that's a whole moment in itself. And then I had postpartum depression and I completely lost my mojo.
I didn’t know I had it for the first 15 months of Delilah’s life, and then once we figured it out, I was treated for it, and I was ready for it when I had Amelia. I went on an antidepressant, which helped tremendously. Without that, I don’t know how long it would’ve taken. I’m very positive and a very happy person, and I felt completely hopeless. And that’s pretty scary when you’ve never had that happen in your life.
Once I got myself back on track, it took a minute for me to figure out “what do I do?” I think it’s hard after you have children to figure out how to get that sexuality back. I was asking the universe to show me a sign. There was an article in the Los Angeles Times about Sheila Kelley doing a pole-dancing class. She had done this movie about strippers, and she was a fellow actor I knew—her husband was on ‘The West Wing’ and Harry knew him. This article made me think, ‘Wow, that’s scary, and that would be really interesting to do, and maybe I should do it. I think I should do it.’
Anyway, long story short, I got ahold of her and she was teaching the class in her house in her husband’s office. There were maybe six of us. And I went and I did this class for, god, probably two years. And that changed everything, because it felt safe. It changed my whole perception and fear about sexuality and expressing yourself. I did it for a good two years, and I don’t think I ever looked back. Then I was just able to really be open, really share it. Harry was thrilled, obviously. I mean, I learned a lot of really good tricks.
- Delilah Belle Hamlin, now 25, and Amelia Gray Hamlin, now 22. Both are models, and both have already made their fair share of headlines on their own.
So what I’m hearing is that before you met Harry, you weren’t overtly sex positive. And then after your trip to Tahiti, something was unleashed, which was wonderful for you. You lost it when you had the babies, temporarily, and then it sounds like you came back to it with a passion. Sexuality evolves, of course, especially as we age. How has it changed for you as you’ve gotten older?
It’s an interesting question because as we age, our hormones change and we change. I mean, we’re not procreating. It really goes back to procreation. And when you’re ovulating, the universe says you need to make a baby and you’re sexual. So I think it’s really interesting when you go through menopause. I know it’s a drag for people to talk about menopause, and it’s like, “Oh, it’s a dirty secret and we don’t want to talk about it.” But the truth is, you change. You’re not about making a baby. So you’re not as crazy sexually driven—you just aren’t. I’m a big proponent of hormones, because I think that without them, life is just f*cking miserable. They have been really helpful in my being able to stay feeling good about myself.
Because you have such an enormous presence, and if you can be straightforward and honest about both the positives and the negatives, you have the opportunity to be hugely helpful to women who might be struggling with their sexuality during menopause. So HRT (hormone replacement therapy) was a great thing for you?
Yes. And I was really scared of it because both my mother and my sister had had breast cancer and were very against it. My mom took HRT for years and years and years, and they think her breast cancer had something to do with it. That was really terrifying because I thought, ‘Well, I can’t take hormones.’ I didn’t take hormones in the beginning of menopause, and I was really suffering. Everything you can go through, I was going through it. I couldn’t sleep, the hot flashes, everything, and I was anxious and angry and just a mess.
I have an Eastern-Western medicine doctor that I go to. And I went to him one day and he said to me, “Why aren’t you on hormones?” And I said, “Well, because my mom had breast cancer and my sister had breast cancer.” And he said, “Okay, hold on.” I was probably 52 at the time. He goes, “If you don’t go on hormones, your hair will fall out. Your skin will be dry. You won’t be able to have sex because your vagina will be so dry and you’ll be on two antidepressants by the time you’re 60 and it’ll be too late.” And I was like, “Okay, sign me up.” So he put me on bioidentical Footnote 3 . We figured out the right mix. My doctor said it was safe for me personally and was actually going to protect me from breast cancer and ovarian cancer and other things. That was eight years ago, and I haven’t looked back. And listen, if I’m going to have a better life by taking them, I’m going to do it. If you took my hormones away, I would kill you, probably. I really think they’re helpful in so many ways.
- A lab-processed, plant-based hormone therapy.
I do just want to say for the readers that I’m about to be 73, I haven’t taken hormones, and all of those things we talked about…I mean, I see them a little bit, but just so readers aren’t terrified, it’s not necessarily like all your hair falls out and your vagina shuts down. I’m also enjoying life and sex without hormones. It’s possible!
Great. Great. Then tell that side of the story, definitely, because this is just me, you know? Everybody’s so different.
“For me, it’s about finding a way to just be comfortable and not put pressure on myself as to who I am in this moment at 60 years old. I don’t want to have sex every five seconds.”
Yes. But because of the bad rap hormones have had, especially for women my age, and certainly older and a bit younger, I think it’s important for women to understand that there is the option. And you’re a perfect example of how well that option can work.
Nobody tells you about what’s really going to happen. And for me, it’s about finding a way to just be comfortable and not put pressure on myself as to who I am in this moment at 60 years old. I don’t want to have sex every five seconds.
So do you want to talk a little bit about that? About how you and Harry have accommodated that?
We’ve always really known that you have to take the time to plan it. Life goes by like a freight train and you have to make time as a couple, even just to go to dinner but also to have sex, to have a sex night, or maybe go to a hotel. You have to create that. And we have really been very diligent about doing that over the last 25 years.
I didn’t realize that Harry is 12 years older than you. Are you two experiencing issues with his sexuality in terms of desire or capabilities?
I mean, luckily not capabilities. I think that’s lucky for him, because at 72, who knows? I do think that desire levels change for a man. That’s just the natural evolution of life. So it’s figuring out how to coexist without taking that personally as a woman. I think that it’s almost more about companionship and about creating space for the ebb and flow of sexuality. We really have great sex together, and we always have. It’s just that maybe it doesn’t happen quite as often as it did when you’re in your 30s and in your 20s, I would say. And I think that’s normal.
One thing many women talk about as we age is the contradiction between how young we feel compared to how old we think we look. Have you noticed that?
I don’t feel like I’m 60, and Harry doesn’t feel like he’s 72. So it’s just the number comes up, and you’re like, “Oh, f*ck.” And that’s what I’m always going to fight against. I’ve thought a lot about it, because I just turned 60 in July, and there’s this whole thing about aging gracefully. And I’m like, “F*ck it. I’m going to age disgracefully.”
I’m not going to buy into any notion that this, this, and this happens when you turn 60. I’m just going to fight it all the way, because I want to do it my way. I was so excited to shoot this cover because this is the kind of thing that moves the needle. It moves the needle for my daughters. It moves the needle for women to go, “Holy sh*t. You can do that. You do not have to give up, go out to pasture, calm down, turn it way down when you turn 60 or when you get older.”
I think it is about passion. You can’t fight aging. Aging is going to happen. How do I do it so that I feel good and I’m happy? That’s what I’m looking for, and I’m still passionate, and I’m still curious about life. I don’t necessarily need to look like I’m 20 years old, though that’s fun if you can get it. But you know what I’m saying? It’s about how do you morph yourself into this era and still feel good, be curious, be passionate, and be happy?
How do you think you’ll feel 10 to 15 years from now, if you had to predict? When you might not look as...juicy as you do today?
I am constantly thinking about that and working on that because I don’t have an answer. I don’t know. I think it’s going to be challenging for me, if I’m honest about it. I do. And I try to just stay present in the moment. I don’t think it’s easy. But that is what I’m trying to figure out. That’s what I’m trying to sit with, and it’s going to take a while, and I’m going to have to live in the moment to do it. I can’t look ahead. Do you know what I mean?
Of course. In fact, as a strategy for aging in general, I agree that’s the only way to be present in the moment. It’s just very difficult to do that, right?
It is very difficult, but I think that’s the key to it all. Because when I’m 75 and I’m living in the moment, I may be perfectly fine with it. I don’t know what that is going to be, and I can’t look ahead.
I know that it’s very hard in our society, the way that women are perceived and the way that aging is perceived. I don’t think anybody is like, “Oh, this is great, and this is just going to be so much fun, and everyone is just going to be so lovely and accepting,” because that is just not the case.
And especially if you’re still in the workplace like we are, it’s like, “Sh*t.” I mean, when I turned 40, it was hard to get a job as an actor. So I’ve been manipulating and managing this for 20 years already.
I love that you identify yourself on Instagram as an actor/hustler.
Thank you.
Because you know that “hustler” is defined as “an aggressively enterprising person” or “a go-getter” or “a prostitute,” right?
I think I’m all of the above. I’m totally all of the above. Are you kidding? I mean if I haven’t prostituted myself out, if you can’t put that on my list, then you’re crazy. I mean, come on, I’ve sold my soul; I’ve prostituted myself. I’ve done many things, but at least I know exactly what I’ve done and the price I’ve paid. And come on, we’re all human.
Okay, so in addition to acting and all of your other ventures, you have a wine company called Rinna Wines. One of the taglines is “Grab a couple of bottles and uncork from reality—and your inhibitions.” I look at you and you’re incredibly uninhibited compared to me. I’m wondering whether there’s any advice you might give the rest of us besides a couple of glasses of wine that helps you out in either the f*cking department or social settings, or...
Well, I just don’t give a sh*t about what people think about me, and that has been a tremendous gift that I have learned. Everything that I’ve gone through has brought me to this point where I do not f*cking care what anybody thinks about me. I don’t need your approval. I don’t need you to tell me whether I’m good, bad, ugly, cute, whatever. I’m going to do whatever I feel to make me happy. So yeah, a couple glasses of wine, if you need it, great. But for me, it’s more internal, that I’m going to do something because I want to do it, and I don’t give a sh*t what anyone thinks about it.
That’s part of your character. So it’s impossible to give advice to someone about how to be that way, because that’s just who you are, basically.
It is. It’s who I’ve become, I haven’t always been like that. I’ve earned that. I’ve gotten to that place where at 60, I am so much more confident than I was at 30. I love this age because I’m freer and more confident and more passionate than I’ve ever been.
And what a delightful place to be! Are you a role model for your girls in that regard?
Imagine having me as your mom and opening up your Instagram and I’m, like, dancing or doing some funny thing. I think that if you look at them and you see what they’ve accomplished at such a young age, I don’t think it’s a negative. I think it’s actually a positive, because they see that anything is possible. Like today, my daughter said, “Oh my god, Mom, you’re a rock star.” I was showing her photos from this shoot, and I thought, ‘That’s a cool thing to hear from your 22-year-old.’
So hopefully, I’m presenting something that is positive to them. But again, I can’t quite imagine what it would be like having me as a mom.
I saw that your mom died at 93, almost two years ago. I lost mine when she was 93, and I was so unprepared for how deeply it affected me and for how long. I mean, I talked to her every day.
I know. It’s devastating on a level that you never would’ve expected. It changed me, changed my whole life. I lost my mind. I went crazy. I was filming. I was trying to grieve in public. And I went absolutely insane in the process until I removed myself from the situation and was really able to sit and grieve more properly.
What brought you back to yourself?
Well, I had a lot of therapy. I would say the therapy was the most helpful and absolutely saved me, as did getting off the show and getting out of that environment so that I could have peace, and so I could just allow myself to be. I had to leave that situation in order to find myself again.
It was so difficult. I could never have imagined what grieving in public would be like, in such a hostile environment. If it had been a loving, supportive environment, that would have probably been different. But because it was so hostile, it was terrifying on a lot of levels.
In the season 13 premiere of ‘The Real Housewives of Beverly Hills,’ Bravo showed your resignation email, shutting down any rumors that you’d been asked to leave. Footnote 4 What did you think of that?
I had no idea. Nobody gave me a heads-up. I mean, a week before it aired, somebody sent it to me because Bravo had sent out a preview of the episode. So I thought, ‘Wow, look at that.’ Because, of course, everyone thought I’d been fired. But no, I made that decision. I sent text messages to the rest of the people. I sent an email to the head of Bravo, but I sent text messages to everybody else. It was the right decision to make, at the time, absolutely the right decision. And this show has a way of always coming around and them showing that was a moment of them coming around and doing the right thing, I think.
- It read: “I will not be renewing my contract, and I will not be coming back to RHOBH. Thank you so much for 8 years!!!! All the best, Lisa.”
So you don’t regret leaving?
No. God no. No, people think that maybe I do, but no, I didn’t regret it when I sent the letter, and I haven’t regretted it since.
Are you watching the new season?
I’m not, no. I think that when you leave a job that you’ve had for eight years, you have to really disengage, and I had to disengage completely for my own sanity. So yeah, no.
And you’re not in touch with anybody on the show?
Of course, I have my friends that I talk to, and they will always be my friends, because they became my friends through the show.
I’m just curious—did you feel supported by them when you were at your most vulnerable?
There was one. Erika Jayne was very supportive of me and helped me through that time. Our pain connected us really well at the time. And Diana Jenkins, who came on the show very, very briefly, she also has been a great support.
And obviously, you don’t regret having made the decision to be honest about your experience.
Oh my god, oh no. That was one of the greatest decisions I’ve ever made to go do that show. I mean, that show brought me so many positives. It was a great thing for me to do at the time, absolutely great. And it was the right time for me to go. I think it served its purpose for both of us, for me and for Bravo. Absolutely.
I have to ask, aside from the HRT, is there anything you do—a physical or mental discipline—to keep in shape?
I’ve been really fortunate to get to 60 and be healthy, knock on wood. I keep a very moderate lifestyle. I’ve worked out since I was 16 years old. I live in moderation, even though it seems like I live very loudly and largely. I get my rest. I eat mostly healthy. I’m moderate. I don’t go crazy with anything. So there’s no silver bullet. There’s nothing that I’m super challenged with. I’ve been very lucky with my health. My body maintains itself pretty well at this age. People are like, “How the heck do you do that?” Genetics. I have a good base of genetics and I got lucky with that. So it’s not that hard for me. And I still look good, so that’s fun, easy, nice. I enjoy it. I present it the way I want to. And when I can’t do that anymore, I won’t.
Because of my newsletter, people will ask me, “Well, should I have a facelift? Should I do work on my face?” What I always say is, as long as you make a conscious decision about what you’re doing, it’s fine. If you’re doing it to please someone other than yourself, it’s problematic.
You’ve got to do things for you. Whatever it is, you’ve got to do it for you. I’m very good at that. I need to work on the other parts of sharing and giving. But I’m pretty darn good about, 'Okay, what do I want to do? And what feels good to me?'
Lisa, you’re so extraordinary in your honesty and openness. I can feel how authentic you are and appreciate how difficult that must have been over a lifetime in the public eye. I’m grateful to have been able to do this interview.
Well, likewise. I knew that I would have a very good time with you when I heard you were going to do it and I thought, ‘This is going to be good.’ I really enjoyed it. And I’m trying to be as open and honest about all of it because it’s a lot. It’s a lot to be able to talk about this and to be somebody that’s opening up about it and trying to help other women, because really that’s what this is about, isn’t it? It’s about “how can I share this experience so that it helps somebody?”
Stylist: Cassie Anderson. Hair: Gregg Lennon Jr. Makeup: Etienne Ortega for The Only Agency. Manicure: Johana Castillo. Videographer: Maxwell Losgar. Video editor: Amanda Evans.
Opener look: LaQuan Smith briefs; Wolford tights. Pearl necklace look: Mizuki necklace. Netted face mask look: Stylist’s own face net. Ivory dress look: Christopher John Rogers dress; Jacob & Co. earrings; Wempe ring; Dena Kemp ring. Neckties look: Gitman, Paul Smith, and Brooks Brothers neckties; LaQuan Smith briefs; Wolford tights. Scarf look:Elizabetta scarf. Black dress look: Mugler dress; Jacob & Co. necklace and ring; Rahaminov bracelet. Blue look: Versace skirt, top, and heels; Dena Kemp earrings and ring. Striped bodysuit look: LaQuan Smith bodysuit and briefs; Wolford tights; Giuseppe Zanotti heels; Cicada earrings; Dena Kemp rings. Strapless black dress with gloves look: Versace dress; Wolford tights; Giuseppe Zanotti heels; Cicada earrings; Paula Rowan gloves. Crystal jumpsuit look: Stella McCartney jumpsuit; Giuseppe Zanotti heels. Silhouette look: Giuseppe Zanotti heels.
